Topic: Sonic Forces ~Join the Uprising~

[Flame]

Honestly think the Boost gameplay is hurting Sonic more than helping him. Actually I think the Boost gameplay should be tied to small segments, kinda like what Sonic 06 did but better and without the bull-malarkey crud happening as well or Special Stages to get the Chaos Emeralds.

I like a return to Adventure-style gameplay for Sonic and his friends. Basically Tails and Knuckles plays just like Sonic but with their ability to fly, climb, and glide to reach the end goal of each stage. And possibly have their Mech and Treasure Hunting tied to optional sub missions of their stages. Heck exclusive stages for them too to really take advantage of their abilities. Heck Amy could play like Sonic and, similar to Mario and Luigi, Amy can jump higher than Sonic with the use of her hammer and the Cube Hammer move the Avatar uses can be her's for aerial attacks and such.

Basically an improved SA1 Amy.

I mean there's going to be a lot of work to get it right with level designs and gameplay for all the characters. I do like the concept of the Avatar, but it should've been at a time where 3D Sonic games were gaining a good rep and bring back Sonic friends as playable for the main series games and get their gameplay down right. Then add the Avatar on top of them along with them and I think the Avatar would've be better well received.

Sonic Team currently can't keep their staffs and send them off to other teams and games mostly after one Sonic game. Something in management needs to change otherwise Sonic is going to hurt a lot in the 3D/Modern games.

I agree with you on Boost gameplay.

I think it's run it's course, and it has encouraged lazy level design.

Unleashed was impressive because the 3D boost formula was new, and they went all out with level design and gameplay.

Colors was still good, but had a problem of being too railroady. some areas were straight lines and it was too obvious, and had too many 2D segments, but it had good production values and was nice, so it was overlookable.

Generations suffers again, from a bit of tunnel syndrome, but at the same time, half the work is already done since it's basically just remaking old stages. So simply adjusting City Escape for boost gameplay is an easier task than creating something from scratch.

But with Forces, the stages look incredibly lazy for Modern Sonic, and I'm suddenly reminded about Izuka's response when asked why they couldnt make a whole game out of boost sonic in Unleashed. Something about the length of the stages and something about a game being too short.

It was a bullshit cop out to be sure. But there was something there. Making levels for boost gameplay can't be easy. And so if you want to make it so it isn't too short, and has some depth, you start overlooking details and end up focusing on 2D segments, (a trend that started becoming worse with Colors) and tunnel gameplay.

Boost gameplay also tosses aside physics and momentum completely. Which is one of the reasons Mania was so welcome by people. It was a return to momentum based speed.

Sonic needs to first off, remember it's a platformer, not a racing game- and Secondly, try to ironically, slow down a bit and make speed a reward. I get it, doing classic Sonic gameplay in 3D isn't easy, but The Adventure games Sonic levels had something that worked, even if it was rough around the edges and maybe not something that would work for a whole game. If they could go back to what made Adventure Sonic work and refine that, we could have a good thing on our hands

[Phi]

Mania getting 8s across the board doesn't make much sense.

It's like no one in Japan had childhood memories of Sonic, and therefore Mania wasn't a very well constructed love letter for them.

[Flame]

It wasn't. It was more a love letter to Westerners, who love Sonic. Like with Mega Man, or Castlevania, or even Metroid, a lot of these Japanese franchises are infinitely more popular in the west than in Japan.

Usually because they were created more in line with Western culture and such than with Japanese culture.

Castlevania is a pastiche of Universal and Hammer horror films, Metroid is heavily inspired by Alien and HR Giger, and Classic Sonic could blend in easily alongside characters like Mickey Mouse. And Mega Man himself evokes Astro Boy, which the west always had a sort of nostalgia for because it's basically sci-fi Pinocchio, and itself was based on western cartoon styles. It also deals with asimovian [parasitic bomb] of man vs machine, which was always a big western popular concept

Japanese pop culture has moved away from American movies and pop culture, and fully embraced it's own. And it's own is heavily geared towards cutsey stuff, sex stuff, or insipid comedy.

And it's GAMING culture has similarly, moved away from the golden days of arcade games and the old school console market, and has become more geared towards mobile phones and time wasters, or gambling. Pokemon was always a hit there because of the collect em all aspect. They love that [parasitic bomb], and many of their mobile games reflect that.

So unless they make a game specifically for the western audiences, there's nowhere for them to sell it in japan, unless it caters to current japanese tastes. (Pachinko, cutsey anime designs, boobs, etc) Which is why franchises like Mega Man and Castlevania have been relegated to merchandise and phone games.

[VirusChris]

True, Sonic Mania was made for the Westerns in mind. Still it looked like it did good in Japan as well I think. How is the Japanese eShop listing on it?

Anyway we got a DAY ONE Patch for the game.

https://twitter.com/wounkun/status/925265607683125248

Added support for additional content: Episode Shadow;
Added support for additional content: New avatar outfits;
Added support for additional content: Transformation into Super Sonic;
Improved main menu controls;
Adjusted balance for certain stages;
Adjusted balance for certain boss fights;
Adjusted some skill abilities;
Fixed player character reaction when taking damage;
Text fixes;
Minor bug fixes.

Wait... what? Additional content... Super Sonic? Wait, SEGA and Sonic Team, are you telling me that Super Sonic was NEVER in the base game of Forces? Oh come on, guys, get it together! Forces is getting trashed on in the West and this doesn't help in the slightest!

Semi-joking aside it looks like Super Sonic might be playable on Sonic stages again (perhaps even Shadow getting that treatment... though it's just a guess).

Also some adjustments on bosses? I guess the Egg Dragoon is one of them, however you only get the no-hit area if you align yourself perfectly when he shots in the spot you're in or take a hit and just wait in the spot after losing rings.

Well it's not surprising there's Day 1 patches, but it's Sonic. Who knows if this is good or bad.

[Police Girl]

Day one patches are the norm nowadays.

But this is the first time I've seen a Sonic game get one.

[Reaperoid]

How else are you going to buy the Super Sonic DLC?

[VirusChris]

It's free, dude.

Anyway it seems like Sonic Forces is Japan's "Sonic Mania" as they love the Adventure Sonic and the rest of Modern Sonic moreso than Classic. Especially SA2.

Not to mention Sticks' Japanese VA fangirled over Shadow appearing in Forces:
http://dizzydennis.tumblr.com/post/165726467107/one-of-my-favorite-things-to-come-out-of-sonic

Yeah, Japan is going to eat this game up a lot. It's geared more heavily towards them and seeing this is SEGA of Japan and Sonic Team primarily a Japanese group they're see Forces as a success and continue with the Boost and possible return of the Avatar feature for future Modern Sonic games.

[Police Girl]

Ok then.

At least the music is always pretty good.

[VirusChris]

Well great music is Sonic standard after all (unless you're RoL which is... no music at all).

Also I digged this up from the SSMB boards. Apparently one user commented what Nakamura's interview about Sonic at TGS 2017 a while back about Sonic Forces:

"So I listened through Nakamura's interview at the 2017 TGS 1st day a while back, a few things I made sense of from it that are relevant:

"In Japan [people say] 'he's too fast',   'too many characters', or something, so [Sonic]'s not yet popular here... but of course in America and Europe [he is.]"

He wants to bring back the "feeling" of SA1/2 that has faded over the years. (Nakamura said he started working on Sonic games with Adventure 1. Also it was pointed out here that Adventure outsold the classics in Japan.)

Anime is self-consciously being amped for Japanese players, in terms of "serious" story and vocal music. He hopes Americans might "grow to appreciate" it as well.

The avatar would be big in bringing new players to the series.
 

Bottom line it feels from his side that they are making efforts to try and reach a larger Japanese audience with Forces. They might make be making a bigger marketing push than usual in Japan if they are hoping to improve sales compared to typical Sonic games. Trying to ape Mario in Lost World might have been done for some similar reasons. (Not that it helped there.)"

source: https://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/23021-what-does-japan-see-in-forces/?do=findComment&comment=1175259

So basically SA1 and SA2 are regarded as the best Sonic games to the Japanese, and keep in mind that Japan is a very small country so selling like 300k or so is still a very good sell for Sonic game and so they're sort of trying to get the same atmosphere and tone the Adventure series had for Forces.

Plus it seems like people dislike Sonic going "too fast" which is probably why they might've disliked the Classic Sonic games with the momentum-based speed and the recent change to having only Sonic playable as there's too many characters. In a sense this is SEGA of Japan and Sonic Team is Japanese-based so they're trying to get Sonic popular in Japan first and so far they're only trying to cater to their fanbase before the West.

Might be why a lot of people in the West are disappointed. This game is not made with them in mind even if they're the more devoted fans of the series. They're just hoping the American just "go along with the changes" to the Sonic series. This is kinda backwards thinking a bit.


Something tells me the Boost gameplay is going to stay a little longer and the Avatar is going to return one way or another.


EDIT/UPDATE: Forgot to post this new video by Dr. Eggman!

[youtube]XDe1b-NGjXk[/youtube]

This reminds me of the old 1950's commercials of the past. Damn, I kinda wish this was in the base game now.


And... Sonic Forces got into the "Platinum Hall of Fame"?
https://twitter.com/SonicJPNews/status/926041115081560064

From Famitsu of all places. Well I think the Switch version is going to be the more popular choice for Forces in Japan.

[Frozen Potato]

Shadow's waifu is-

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/926617266564743168

Sonic Q&A is back guys.

[Phi]

What the [tornado fang] was that

[Sakura Leic]

The voice actors [tornado fang]ing around in a Q and A I guess.

[Phi]

I haven't cringed that hard in a very long time

[Frozen Potato]

I was fun to hear them screwing around lol, also this one from last year

https://twitter.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/746407871273807872?lang=en

[Sakura Leic]

I haven't cringed that hard in a very long time

Nah I can make you cringe harder.

[spoiler]Mike Pollock did voice acting for Hentai before.[/spoiler]

[VirusChris]

Nah I can make you cringe harder.

[spoiler]Mike Pollock did voice acting for Hentai before.[/spoiler]

Wait... is that real? Or are you just joking?
I am really curious.



Anyway for those who are looking forward to Sonic Forces, what are you doing in the meantime? Currently I'm replaying Sonic 1, 2, 3 & Knuckles and other Sonic games as I wait for Forces. I finished (as well as beaten) Sonic 1, 2, and Colors at the moment and currently working on beating S3&K once again and 100% it again.

Man, I don't know if it's been so long but was Sonic 1 always that slow? Sonic 2 was such an improvement and I finally got Super Sonic and beaten the game (I never did before on either accounts) and grow to love Sonic 2 more. Still Sonic 3&K is my favorite and I'm having a blast playing it again. Finished with Mania and I got Super Sonic in Colors (which I don't think it was worth it). I did manage to get Sonic CD on Steam so I'll be able to finally play it apart from the first stage and I'll try to beat it.

The PC version is the currently go-to version of CD, right? Aside from some game tracks not 100% in from the original due to licensing. This one includes Tails playable. Hmm, I'll finally see how good or average or bad this Sonic game will be.

After that... back to Generations. Oh! And Adventure 1 and 2 on the PC as well! Going on a Sonic Marathon here for Forces.

[Frozen Potato]

Doing what I usually, playing PSO2 and any other normal routine. I'm not one to overhype before a game gets it released.

[Sakura Leic]

Wait... is that real? Or are you just joking?
I am really curious.

I wish I was joking but no it's real, it was mentioned in an informal interview in 2012 with Brainscratch Commentaries since they're all Sonic nerds. 

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yzGVzLjIcQ[/yt]

If you want to skip to it start at the 13 or 14 minute mark.

[Flame]

Nah I can make you cringe harder.

[spoiler]Mike Pollock did voice acting for Hentai before.[/spoiler]

Reminds me of when I learned Dan Green did Hentai.

I can never un-hear it.

[VirusChris]

Well what do you know, you learn something new everyday. Or two.

[VirusChris]

Launch Trailer:
[youtube]uU3FawgeiAk[/youtube]

Honestly I preferred the PV3 Japanese Trailer of Sonic Forces as it got me bumped up for it, though the English trailer here sounds cinematic and epic in its own way. So we got two different versions of trailer takes on Sonic Forces to enjoy.

Tomorrow is the big day and I've decided to go Hedgehog as my Main Avatar.

Also more tracks from the game.

Infinite Boss Theme 1 (Extended)
[youtube]X0GSW4pOHNg[/youtube]

Imperial Tower (Extended)
[youtube]l0syoxZOg5g[/youtube]

Honestly the tracks are going to be catchy and fun to tap your foot to. I know I'm loving the soundtrack already! ^_^

[Frozen Potato]

Reveiws are out and I am worried.

[OBJECTION MAN]

Too early to say I told you so?

I mean, come on, it was obvious that this would be a stinker by everything presented.

[Flame]

Hope was lost the moment I saw edgy Dan Green sounding ow-the-edge rival and 2srs4me plot

And then the subpar gameplay previews.

[Sakura Leic]

Can someone verify if this is true?