RockmanPM Forums

Hypershell · **on:** May 21, 2016, 06:32:48 AM

So, um....anyone looking forward to this one?

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH9pbThMLs0#[/yt]

The bizarrely static expressions aside, I am excited. Still have to play 999 (Junpei and Akane are back, though, for those who did), but I'm glad to see more Siggy and Phi.

And, of course...
[spoiler=Virtue's Last Reward]Whoever the heck it is who has Kyle's consciousness.[/spoiler]

Sakura Leic · **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2016, 06:36:55 AM

I'm certainly interested though I haven't played the first 2 games, nor do I own them since I have a massive back log of games for the DS and 3DS.

Also you might want to look at this thread to fix your video.

http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=7437.0

Phi · **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2016, 07:09:01 AM

Ahh, yeah, this topic right here?

Quote from: Hypershell on May 21, 2016, 06:32:48 AM

And, of course...
[spoiler=Virtue's Last Reward]Whoever the heck it is who has Kyle's consciousness.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]It is us, the player, that inhabited Kyle's consciousness. This is why Akane essentially stated that we are an outside force looking inside their operation.

And thus, the game ends with "only you can save the world". In other words, without the player, Sigma can't stop the virus on his own.

Not to be confused with Phi, who is a self-proclaimed "unknown variable" in the Ambidex Game.

We'll have to wait for ZTD to discover the secrets of Phi, as well the part we, the player, will serve. People theorize that the dog, Gab, is used for the player to observe the Decision Game.[/spoiler]

Hypershell · **Reply #3 on:** May 22, 2016, 04:40:11 AM

I suppose it's easy for stuff to miscommunicate pre-release, but I was under the impression that the player could select one of three characters (one to each team). Not as if that really rules out a fourth-wall-break, though, seeings how VLR already screwed with every other sense of reality imaginable.

[spoiler]Akane said that Kyle is "irreplaceable" to the 67-year-old Sigma and thus Sigma saw to it that Kyle would not be left behind in the world-is-doomed timeline. I can see how much of her dialogue can be taken as speaking to the player, but the fact that she speaks of Sigma's relationship with Kyle suggests that there is more going on than just the game looking for a reason to talk to the player directly.

Phi apparently did not understand her role until after the events of VLR also, since the Phi that player/Kyle speaks with is post-Zero Time Dilemma Phi. So yeah, Zero Time Dilemma should be as much a revelation to her as it is to the player, should be interesting.[/spoiler]

Phi · **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2016, 12:58:57 AM

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUeWk7XtdFw[/yt]

I'M SO HAPPY!!!!

[spoiler]Beware of ZTD spoilers in the related videos.[/spoiler]

Satoryu · **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2016, 02:30:36 AM

Ooh man. That made my day.

Still waiting on my copy of ZTD. Amazon bungled that pretty bad.

Phi · **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2016, 02:40:38 AM

Yeah man, same here. I'm getting really tired of waiting.

Did you order the watch edition? Because it seems people that ordered the standard game got their copy, but the watch editions are being delayed.

ViperAcidZX · **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2016, 02:48:18 AM

Dumb question, but which is platforms is 999 Remastered going to be on (I didn't want to spoil anything from the video)? And do I need to play VLR first before 999 to get the full exeperience?

Phi · **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2016, 03:49:31 AM

Quote from: ViperAcidZX on July 04, 2016, 02:48:18 AM

Dumb question, but which is platforms is 999 Remastered going to be on (I didn't want to spoil anything from the video)? And do I need to play VLR first before 999 to get the full exeperience?

You should definitely play 999 first. It's not mandatory to do it in that order, but it is strongly recommended.

All we know right now regarding the 999 port is that it's heading to Steam. Other platforms haven't been announced yet.

Satoryu · **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2016, 06:01:40 AM

Quote from: Phi on July 04, 2016, 02:40:38 AM

Yeah man, same here. I'm getting really tired of waiting.

Did you order the watch edition? Because it seems people that ordered the standard game got their copy, but the watch editions are being delayed.

Yes. The game hasn't even shipped yet.

Hypershell · **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2016, 08:08:10 AM

The remaster is sweet news. I unfortunately did not get around to tracking down 999. No fewer than three of its characters return in Virtue's Last Reward, but you're not supposed to know who two of them are until late in the game anyway, so I didn't feel particularly lost. I would HIGHLY recommend playing VLR before Zero Time Dilemma, though, since the latter contains both extreme spoilers and a lot of inside references to the former. 999 may actually be more relevant to Zero Time Dilemma as well, seeings how Junpei and Akane are regulars, but having not played 999 I'm not totally sure.

I got the standard edition of Zero Time Dilemma for 3DS (it arrived late, so Amazon gave me a small account credit; ten bucks I think). It was clearly not optimized for the system; no 3D effect even on a New XL.

The story is as batshit crazy as ever. The characters are constantly being injected with memory loss drugs, so you experience the story in fragments that you select without knowing how they're connected until after the point. Unlike VLR, there are no alternate solutions to the escape rooms.

[spoiler=Zero Time Dilemma/Virtue's Last Reward]I found the ending that leads to VLR. However, Junpei and Akane are among the six who the girl in the message (Diana, if it wasn't obvious enough from the pre-release trailers) claims are dead, which creates a seeming continuity error, but there is another scene after the "ending" that I'm still unable to access, so that probably explains it. ~~Honestly I wonder if Akane isn't this game's Zero, to be able to "fool" the game like that...~~

Phi was patient zero to Radical-6. She of course knew what that meant, but she was then stun-gunned and sent to the surface against her will. Makes me wonder how she can be so chipper about her role in all of this during VLR's ending, but I suppose she was probably carrying memories from more than one of ZTD's timelines.[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Zero Time Dilemma only]I thought VLR was insane, but it's got nothing on this.

There's a 50/50 chance that the game doesn't even happen because Zero actually WILL let everyone go if you call a coin toss right in the intro. There's a button labeled "do not touch this button" that blows the whole place up, it is very strongly implied that Luna was designed based on... (nevermind, the speculation just makes the eventual mind [tornado fang] even weirder), and there's an alien tree machine that lets two people send clones of themselves into alternate histories.

All this and I'm barely 1/3 of the way through the game.

Also the series affinity for dodging someone's name by reducing it to the first letter makes me seriously wonder if Q isn't a Quark clone from the alien tree machine. Gotta keep playing to find out that one, I guess.

One last thing: Mira is a crazy [sonic slicer].[/spoiler]

Phi · **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2016, 08:52:26 AM

Yeah, just play the games in release order.

Phi · **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2016, 08:50:03 PM

Quote from: Satoryu on July 04, 2016, 06:01:40 AM

Yes. The game hasn't even shipped yet.

Check your e-mail.

Amazon just sent me a delivery estimate of July 13th.

Hypershell · **Reply #13 on:** July 08, 2016, 11:30:52 PM

Even though the escape rooms seem fairer (except the Rec Room, completely lost patience there, it was clearly designed for a higher screen/texture resolution than what the 3DS ended up with), I more or less hit a road block when it comes to unlocking story fragments. This is the part of Zero Escape games that I hate; when you're stuck in story progression, you have no idea what timeline you should be looking at for your clue to proceed.

Of course, it could just be that not answering a timed question is itself a valid scenario.

Aaanyway, that one out of the way, there's only so much left that I can do.

[spoiler]The 3-way standoff for Q Team is really ticking me off. There are four possible outcomes. I have three: Shoot Eric, Shoot Mira, Shoot nobody. If I enter Q, the game tells me to enter Q's name. HIS NAME IS SEAN, I KNOW HIS NAME IS SEAN, THE NAME SEAN IS RECOGNIZED AS A MEMBER OF Q TEAM IN THE "WHO KILLED JUNPEI?" FACEOFF, SO WHY IS THAT NAME NOT RECOGNIZED NOW?!

*huff* *puff*

The only other avenues not behind a Lock symbol are the Door of Truth for D Team (requires an 8 digit number from God-knows-where, all I know is it's not the one that Zero gave to Q), and the Force Quit Boxes which are pretty clearly supposed to be the last thing you do. Oh yeah, and Q Team's step in that is another 8-digit number which is ALSO not the one that Zero gave to Q.[/spoiler]

Phi · **Reply #14 on:** July 08, 2016, 11:47:09 PM

Hm, I was worried about the screen resolution. For VLR, it was fine on 3DS, since it wasn't much of a downgrade from the Vita version.

Though for this game, it's remarkably clear that Steam/Vita is the intended way to play it.

Hypershell · **Reply #15 on:** July 09, 2016, 12:57:04 AM

I'm going to guess Steam, since A. The Vita is half-dead, and B. Regardless of model quality, the animations look like something out of a flash or web browser game. I get the distinct impression that they were working under a tight budget.

Early game bug/glitch PSA that I am trying to keep as spoiler-free as possible:
There are three "team death" scenes that the global flow chart places outside the actual timelines (why they are arranged that way, I have no idea, since they all very obviously belong in specific places in the timeline). It is entirely possible for you to play the "decisions" to unlock all three scenes without actually viewing them. In this case, the scene appears in its designated spot outside of the flow chart, but is darkened. You CANNOT access a darkened death scene from the Global Flow Chart, you must replay the relevant decisions to trigger the scene again. If you don't view them all, there are other scenes that will remain locked indefinitely.

This happened to me with Q-Team's death scene. I had to replay both of the relevant scenes to finally view it and unlock another C-Team fragment.

EDITS: I said it for VLR, and I'll say it again: Game cleared, mind [tornado fang]'d.

[spoiler=Virtue's Last Reward]I'm going to hazard a guess and say that Alice and Clover are referring to the alien transporter. It is possible that Sigma in VLR does not know about it, but Akane most definitely does.

Kyle's role as explained in VLR is not referenced, which surprises me. But if Kyle did influence this timeframe without shifting in the traditional sense, that would imply that his partner is Sean.

Phi...X-factor indeed. I'm not going to say it, not even in spoiler tags, you have to see it for yourself.[/spoiler]

Satoryu · **Reply #16 on:** July 09, 2016, 07:42:07 AM

Quote from: Phi on July 08, 2016, 08:50:03 PM

Check your e-mail.

Amazon just sent me a delivery estimate of July 13th.

Yeah I just got an email. Delivery eta next week.

Satoryu · **Reply #17 on:** July 15, 2016, 03:29:15 AM

Got the game today. Beat my first puzzle level. Game definitely does seem more talky than before.

Shelly: I wouldn't call it a glitch. It's just a clumsy way of programming it. The game remembers the last choice you made for each side and gives you the corresponding outcome. You have to manually make each choice, not just watch the resulting cutscene. At least you can fast forward the dialogue.

I ended up getting all those outcomes before proceeding. It gives you so many options, I'm not sure how I want to proceed with the narrative. It's going to be really confusing.

Hypershell · **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2016, 05:07:28 AM

For as confusing as it looks at the start, the global flow does make it clear as you start to play through more scenes. Also, most of the locks kinda unravel in one big sequence once you've done everything else, I just got socked by missing Q's team-death scene SOMEHOW (and I assure you I did select every possible choice well beforehand).

Phi · **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2016, 05:26:06 AM

I definitely appreciate the creativity of piecing the story together as you play, but I'd rather have it progress chronologically, if I were given the choice.

Uchi likes to use system gimmicks to his advantage when crafting a story, or just general trolling

[spoiler=999 and VLR spoilers]Such as the bottom screen being Akane's past consciousness, or the game tricking you by neglecting to show Sigma's face due to being the protagonist, when he was actually an old fart.

Even the memo function in VLR is story related, because the notes you write slowly erase the more times you jump; in other words, Sigma loses memories of the notes.

Perhaps ZTD has another gimmick besides the fragments, but I'm not done with the game yet.[/spoiler]

But wow, he was completely wrong when he claimed ZTD would be a great starting point for newcomers. It barely explains anyone's connection in the beginning. Just vague little plot points.

Satoryu · **Reply #20 on:** July 21, 2016, 03:29:46 AM

I only have a few fragments left, so I've hit a lot of the juicy bits now. Two twists really resonated with me. One is very similar to one in Danganronpa 2, which meant I possibly should've seen it coming, but its impact is still powerful. The other twist just solidifies that D Team is the best.

I found quite a few of the puzzles so far to be pretty easy. One is probably brutal if you don't know math. I only got walled on two parts of Control, and they were both for dumb reasons on my part. I regrettably had to look up the answer for one, and yeah it was something I should've been able to figure out.

Hypershell · **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2016, 07:14:53 PM

Like I said, my main wall was the game room. There's a hint of "odds" that you'd THINK refers to the odd bet option on the roulette wheel, but it doesn't, it refers to the barely-visible (at least on 3DS, I don't know if the Steam/Vita textures are better) odds disclaimer on the slot machine. The transporter room wasn't exactly friendly, either, but I did manage.

Quote from: Phi on July 18, 2016, 05:26:06 AM

But wow, he was completely wrong when he claimed ZTD would be a great starting point for newcomers. It barely explains anyone's connection in the beginning. Just vague little plot points.

As someone who jumped in at VLR and missed 999, I kinda have one foot in both camps. I see it as this: The team leaders in ZTD are all newbies. If you're unfamiliar with the past titles, then you as a player relate better to Carlos and Diana (Q Team is all newbies so it makes no difference in their case). If you are a veteran, then your focus shifts to the recurring characters, and Carlos and Diana are basically filler characters until they themselves get up to speed.

Phi · **Reply #22 on:** July 27, 2016, 07:23:54 AM

Uchi did it again.

Just like with VLR, the truth was right in front of our eyes.

[spoiler=Zero foreshadowing]https://www.reddit.com/r/ZeroEscape/comments/4qsmvu/ztd_spoilerslets_find_all_of_the_foreshadowing/[/spoiler]

And I'm sure there's even more clues elsewhere.

So anyway, I finished the game. It... wasn't worth the hype, but regardless, I'm glad we got a conclusion to the series, even if it was underwhelming.

I need some time to conduct my thoughts more thoroughly, and then I will delve into the pros and cons.

Phi · **Reply #23 on:** September 04, 2016, 07:16:16 AM

Right. Where to begin?

Well, let's start with the blaring question:

[spoiler]

Ms. "She Knows Everything" Akane Kurashiki explicitly states in Another End that Kyle's consciousness is integral to the success of the Mars Mission and, effectively, saving the world. So where is this lil' [sonic slicer]?

While we're at it, what happened to Clover and Alice utilizing Shrodinger's Cat to be in two places at once? Where was the promised involvement of ? in ZTD?

Uchi claimed that Snake would get closure and we would see Dio "in another form"... None of this [parasitic bomb] made it in. Not to mention Sigma, Phi, and Diana don't even get an epilogue like C Team and Q Team. We find out they're a family, and we get nothing???

Seriously, why the [tornado fang] does Q Team get special treatment? The team full of one-dimensional characters with vague backstories.

Oh, and do you know the "brilliant" excuse Uchi came up with as to why none of Another End's material was in ZTD?

"It's not canon"

No, I'm serious. Apparently, it was merely created to inspire hope that the player can make a difference. Bullshitting aside, we all know the truth, which is Uchi couldn't fit in these promised plot points in ZTD, and there was likely budget restraints.

What a disappointment.

Now, we come to the gameplay itself. While personally, I feel ZTD has the best puzzles of the trilogy, the cinematics were a mistake. Awkward animations and stiff action scenes, I literally couldn't take moments like Akane going yandere seriously. The intricate descriptions of the VN format is the definitive Zero Escape experience.

And can we take a moment to talk about the alien transporters? If this wasn't a huge steaming pile of Deus Ex Machina fuel, I don't know what is. Then there's Junpei and Akane having completely different personalities. According to Tenmyouji, Akane may not even be human anymore from all the death she's seen and experienced from living through thousands of timelines. That traumatic side of her was prevalent in VLR. None of that was seen in ZTD.

And the ending? The game ignores Brother's story from VLR, and Delta responds to unanswered questions with "My motives are complex"?

Hell, his reveal was sloppy, and it makes no sense that no one in Q Team acknowledged his existence.

ZTD was a mess on various levels; the pre-order watch debacle being the cherry on top.[/spoiler]

As for the praise-worthy notes: Everything involving D Team. And Carlos, I guess.

Phi christening herself as "Boss Phi", since she's undisputed best girl. Sigma's good ol' banter with her returns, Diana being the total sweetheart of the group, along with an emotional performance from her in the D Team ending. Just playing their fragments was a blast.

Uchi was able to implement philosophical terms in this game that he couldn't in 999 and VLR, so that was interesting. Most of the music was the same, although they work appropriately when used.

That's... basically it.

Overall, about a 7.5/10.

Not the masterpiece VLR's Another End promised us.

Hypershell · **Reply #24 on:** September 10, 2016, 07:29:06 AM

While I loved the game in general I didn't appreciate their attempt to dive into the moral dilemmas of SHIFTing. Like, the very nature of how one figures it out means they've already jumped off that particular bridge.

[spoiler]
As bizarre of a Deus Ex Machina as the alien transporters are, there are only so many ways to get around 4 recurring characters when 6 of the group are supposed to die to lead into VLR. It...really is weird. However, given that VLR was hinting, through Clover and Alice in Another End, that sending bodies between timelines was a possibility, I can only guess that is what they were getting at (Schrodinger's Cat I take to refer to, however it is they return, that they'll be safe so long as they do not view/disturb their cold-sleep selves). It actually wraps itself up quite well, since Akane of VLR is herself a transporter clone, and even if Alice and Clover had nothing to do with ZTD it does leave the door open for them to reappear in other stories.

And before we go any further, yeah, I'm going to call bullshit on the "Another End is not canon" statement. It is very obvious that ZTD was made under a tight budget, and as I've said in the past, as much as they wanted to communicate more stuff to the player, Akane's statements about how much Kyle meant to Sigma clearly showed there was more to it than that.

Brother...jeez, that completely slipped my mind, I had to re-read the VLR notes on that one. Shouldn't Delta be dead in the timeline that leads to VLR? He must have had a successor. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of what VLR told us lines up with him.

Yeah, I was disappointed with the lack of Kyle as well. As said in my previous post, my own head-canon is that Kyle does not "shift" in the traditional sense but rather accesses the Quantum Computer in the background at some point, meaning that ? is Sean. It may be a stretch but it's the best fridge logic I can come up with. Also, I refuse to believe that Kyle and Phi will not see each other again in the new timeline. That's just way too cold.

I do wonder exactly how much Another End Phi really knew, since we can't really be sure how many other timelines she jumped through during ZTD before going to VLR. Also I loved that VLR Akane's ring turned out to be a gift from Junpei. For everything she gave up, she never forgot, even if she made sure that Junpei did. Might not be in the whole Sigma/Phi/Dianna league with the feels, but not too shabby.[/spoiler]

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