Topic: The new next-gen 2013 Xbox reveal (discussions here)

[Sakura Leic]

Nothing personal against hippies, they're a fun bunch. But a lot of them did use LSD...

Come to think of it, I just placed Microsoft along with them. Microsoft is the exact opposite of "fun."

Forget it then!

Hench why I said 1950's.

[Hypershell]

Also, I suspect that Microsoft's evil team of corporate attorneys would be apprised of this and have already found ways to circumvent it.  They would have tackled that snag long before any announcement was made, so as to avoid legal entanglements.

Doubtless.  No telling if a judge would side with them, but I can see where, from a "ruthless business" standpoint, they're getting their precedent from.

It's worth mentioning that the whole "temporary license to play" bullshit has been technically written into ToS by all of the big three for their digital downloads already.  The thing is, it was always dismissed as the big corporation's tendency to overstate their legal rights in unfamiliar territory.  The practical function of the consoles made it clear, that if for any reason you ever were ever cut off from their online services, you can still play whatever you had downloaded prior.  It's just that you were on your own in doing so; since your license is revoked, the manufacturer is released from all obligations and responsibilities.  I suspect that statement was intended to guard against liability for people who might otherwise sue for being unable to access the not-previously-downloaded remainder of their library following such a ban (or the inevitable "server shutdown" date, for that matter), and most certainly there are better ways it could have been worded if that is the case.

What Microsoft did is take that statement to the ultimate extreme.  It is the effective result of any such draconian DRM scheme as we knew they were building, though, so I'm not sure why certain circles are treating it as a separate story.  Bottom line is the same: They dictated that if your "license" is ever revoked for any reason, you are not merely forbidden to access or forbidden to download, you actually are forbidden to play.  Ever.  For one ill-conceived DRM game (Sim City says hi), that's bad.  For an entire freaking console, that's an absolute nightmare.

[ViperAcidZX]

What the [tornado fang], Notch, you're letting Microshit put Minecraft on Xboned?! I thought they hated indie devs, or are they selective assholes about it?

[Police Girl]

What the [tornado fang], Notch, you're letting Microshit put Minecraft on Xboned?! I thought they hated indie devs, or are they selective assholes about it?

You're a bit late.

But Minecraft on 360 sells and naturally they gotta have it on Xbone too.

[Reaperoid]

Yep, they sure are. Straight to "disc", too...

[Police Girl]

Yep, they sure are. Straight to "disc", too...

That placeholder price.

[Mr. Haxwell]

That placeholder price.

Oh you [tornado fang]ing kidding me. Are they serious?

[Police Girl]

Its Australian. So that's probably why.

[Quickman]

Doubtless.  No telling if a judge would side with them, but I can see where, from a "ruthless business" standpoint, they're getting their precedent from.

It's worth mentioning that the whole "temporary license to play" bullshit has been technically written into ToS by all of the big three for their digital downloads already.  The thing is, it was always dismissed as the big corporation's tendency to overstate their legal rights in unfamiliar territory.  The practical function of the consoles made it clear, that if for any reason you ever were ever cut off from their online services, you can still play whatever you had downloaded prior.  It's just that you were on your own in doing so; since your license is revoked, the manufacturer is released from all obligations and responsibilities.  I suspect that statement was intended to guard against liability for people who might otherwise sue for being unable to access the not-previously-downloaded remainder of their library following such a ban (or the inevitable "server shutdown" date, for that matter), and most certainly there are better ways it could have been worded if that is the case.

What Microsoft did is take that statement to the ultimate extreme.  It is the effective result of any such draconian DRM scheme as we knew they were building, though, so I'm not sure why certain circles are treating it as a separate story.  Bottom line is the same: They dictated that if your "license" is ever revoked for any reason, you are not merely forbidden to access or forbidden to download, you actually are forbidden to play.  Ever.  For one ill-conceived DRM game (Sim City says hi), that's bad.  For an entire freaking console, that's an absolute nightmare.

And since they're also doing away with the rental market, a market that is pretty good at bringing in purchasers, they're unloading the entire clip into their foot.  Games are expensive to buy.  At $60 a pop, it's just not a financially feasible hobby for many.  Thus, many people will rent games.  Take the game home and try it out for a modest price.  If they like the game, they're more apt to purchase the title for themselves.

When you remove that market, you remove the consumers.  We can't try before we buy.  How will we know that we'll like the game?  Why would we spend $60 on a game that could turn out to be really crappy?  I'd prefer to drop $5-8 on a rental, try the game, and make a decision then.  More often than not, if I really like the game, I will go out and buy it, either used or new, depending on availability.

This whole thing is going to hurt them badly.  They're eliminating an entire market.  That is possibly the worst business decision of all.  Excising a viable and profitable market like a malignant tumor just so you can cut out another market?  May as well just take the whole organ with the tumor.  I'm sure we can live without that liver.

[Align]

On the bright side, maybe this'll prove once and for all to publishers that piracy isn't the reason their games aren't selling.

[Quickman]

Also, a focus on one-and-done games with virtually zero replay value...

[Hypershell]

Oh, I'm sure they'll ALWAYS blame piracy (I'm also sure that breaking the XBone will be considered a top priority amongst the hacking elite, even if they do find it difficult to do so), but at the very least it ought to convince them to stop treating used game buyers as pirates.

...maybe.  I don't really know if the XBone will fail, per se, in that Microsoft has an uncanny ability to push crap hardware out to the ignorant consumer (360 failure rates).  They have made their stance clear that they intend to sell it without the aid of "core gamers" to evangelize for them (which they have also done before, with Kinect).  Still, even if they successfully push this as a sports fan's premium magic box thing, I don't imagine that the game attachment rate will be all that impressive.

I'm also wondering how long it will take before the general public catches on to the fact that the full and sole purpose of XBone discs is to placate people who don't actually want an internet-required system (both consumers AND retailers).  Obviously the "gamers" know it, but when all who are techno-literate enough to even maintain an XBone's functionality catch on as well, then why in the blue hell will they buy a disc when it all gets installed/sent to the cloud anyway?

[Quickman]

My hope is that perhaps the mass majority will prove me wrong, perhaps the system will fail utterly.

But, I've learned long ago that humanity is full of very stupid people, and their voices tend to be the loudest.

[Phi]

Also, a focus on one-and-done games with virtually zero replay value...

Yep.

Reggie even stated that he's seen a lot of games with very low replay value, going on to place Nintendo titles as significantly more replayable than them.

[Sakura Leic]

It will probably do bad in the first few years than start to pick up a bit later to quote someone who was pretty much neutral in the console war thing watching E3.

[OBJECTION MAN]

so...
All this bullshit with used games?

Possibly actually illegal.

Xbox, please, go home.

It's not illegal and here is why:

There is one important detail to catch here. Microsoft has been outwardly using only the phrase "game license" instead of "game copy" such as in cases like "when you buy the game license". You are NOT getting a game copy anymore, you are buying an install medium with a game license. This technicality makes all the difference. There is likely going to be License Agreements on every disk before the install as well to explicitly state this. You have to agree to it in order to play the game of course.

This is a much dated reference, but it should give you an idea of what I mean. It is the same as ordering AOL and receiving the install disk in the mail. You can't resell your license/subscription to AOL, just pass the disk on. However, anyone who gets that disk has to pay AOL for access of course.

[Quickman]

These are turbulent waters to tread in, and I can only see the idea backfiring.  For AOL, it worked fine, as it was a given.  You need to pay for Internet access.  But, for games?  So, your friend wants to borrow your game so he can see if it's worth buying.  Well, he can't.  He has to first buy the game to see if it's worth buying.

Sense make this does not.

[Kieran]

I think Microsoft is trying to use Steam's business model, but the problem is they aren't Valve.

[Sakura Leic]

Speaking of trying to be like Steam.

http://www.pcauthority.com.au/News/346744,possible-microsoft-engineer-on-xbox-one-we-suck-at-telling-the-story.aspx

[Kieran]

Yeah, the difference there is that if my PC can't get internet for more than a day (infrequent, but it does happen), I can still play my Steam library.

[Flame]

http://www.navytimes.com/article/20130614/OFFDUTY02/306140030

http://www.warpzoned.com/2013/06/congressmen-propose-we-are-watching-you-act-an-anti-kinect-bill/

Heh... Heh... Oh man. The ride truly never ends.

[Sakura Leic]

Great job Microsoft now you got the government on your ass.  They should just delay this pile of [parasitic bomb] and re-work it.

[Police Girl]

I actually hope they don't and continue this strain of arrogance. I would love to see Microsoft learn from their mistakes like every Third Console beforehand (Well in Sega's case it was too late but Nintendo and Sony both seem to have learned and taken steps to prevent their past mistakes.) And if they don't, well I can't say I will be missing their presence in the game market.

[Flame]

Nope, because Sony. they will NOT admit a defeat or fuckup to Sony. They are sticking to their guns, and it will cost them in the long run. Sony [tornado fang]ing executed Microsoft's console with the precision of a surgeon. And I'm not just talking E3. I mean the stuff behind the scenes, with rumors and possible misinformation, where it's possible that Sony intentionally leaked proposed DRM console ideas on the net to gauge reaction and set MS on their trail, so that they would blaze ahead with the One's DRM [parasitic bomb], thinking Sony would do the exact same. So Sony decides NOT to do it, and instead do the OPPOSITE, and also reveal their PS4 early, to force Microsoft to follow suit, who expected to squeeze some more life out of the 360. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Xboned's design is last minute. It's so [tornado fang]ing plain and boring that it looks like it took no long time to design, while the PS4 is VERY designed.

[Sakura Leic]

I guess that's true, either way I don't care to buy anything from Microsoft and find this thing so entertaining.

EDIT: Gaming wise I mean.