Topic: X4 is really overrated

[Treleus]

No, he's right. While I will praise up and down how awesome X2's Double Shot is, the one thing that holds it back is that it actually does stop you dead when you fire the first shot on the ground. Try walking or dashing and then fire the first half.

ZX fixed this, but they did it by having the shots just come out of one buster, which looked so [tornado fang]ing lame next to X2's one-two punch. Plus all the charged shots were smaller in the Zero & ZX series than they were in the X1-X3 games. Still, I enjoyed it. It's Mega Man X.

Even without the programming quirk, the Double Shot could've definitely been improved upon. The Cross-Charge makes sense and sounds great on paper, but it suffered from the same flaw that held the Double Shot back in X2. On top of that, it fires too slowly, and the first shot--while being the stronger of the two in X3--doesn't look as cool as a regular fully-charged shot. Nice design, but not so nice execution.

Project Zero actually fixed the Cross-Charge a bit: http://megamanx9.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2807-mega-man-x3-zero-project-vers-30-in-progress/

[Ladd Spencer]

You drop straight to the ground if you fire a charge shot, either the first or the second, after you get the double buster in either X2 or X3

I think the X3's buster's first shot is 2 fully charged shots. Is that correct? Where does that leave the second shot?

X2's are both the same, despite graphical differences? I'm slightly rusty on my damage amounts.

[Treleus]

No, I think you can still move around if you fire one of the double shots in the air, but I'll have to test that.

The first shot of X3's Cross-Charge does indeed count as two charged shots, whereas for X2's Double Shot, it's the second one. The swirling red (blue?) helix around the shot acts as a second hit. So basically:

X2 Buster: Regular, Double-Tap
X3 Buster: Double-Tap, Regular

[Nexus]

I wasn't quite meaning the feeling of the buster shot upgrades; truthfully, i'm a fairly average player and probably wouldn't find the respective arm parts myself without some sort of aid in a regular playthrough. What I meant was that X1 felt like that 'fresh first game' kinda thing, the physics and other smaller factors feel far different to me than X2's and X3's. Like, the first game probably wasn't entirely refined / tuned, but had its qualities, and then X2 and 3 are much closer in game feel to eachother.

.. Although it doesn't help that X2 and 3 are really not that memorable for me at all.

[Ladd Spencer]

No, I think you can still move around if you fire one of the double shots in the air, but I'll have to test that.

You drop. I remember it vividly, mostly because it pissed me the [tornado fang] off. Pretty sure in both. You also LET GO OF LADDERS. Now that is [tornado fang]ing retarded.

truthfully, i'm a fairly average player and probably wouldn't find the respective arm parts myself without some sort of aid in a regular playthrough.

You gotta comb my man. Hug every surface, check every pit, and refuse to give up on getting onto that wall above the doorway. Mostly that'll get you everything. It's like navigating a labyrinth (or at least one that follows the rules).

It's much easier than Zelda secret finding. That's like a game of Poker. I'll sit there and think to myself, "OK, which path was more obvious? Where did they WANT me to go?"

[Treleus]

You drop. I remember it vividly, mostly because it pissed me the [tornado fang] off. Pretty sure in both. You also LET GO OF LADDERS. Now that is [tornado fang]ing retarded.

You're right. I remember. That's some dodgy programming. And it wouldn't happen if you were hugging a wall. You would just shoot out of one buster, which was fine.

Fixing this should be as simple as creating new animation frames and having the situational code point at them. Not sure how the stopping could be removed though, since I'm not sure why it's there in the first place. Was it necessity? Wouldn't work if removed? Oversight?

[Ladd Spencer]

I think they really wanted you to see X throw his charge shots. And I mean throw. He practically punches them forward.

But yes, they should've added more frames. But back then nobody was good enough for it to matter, at least to them. Don't forget dashing was relegated to an upgrade so as to not confuse the player with too many controls.

[Flame]

It was only an upgrade in X1. In X2, he dashes from the start.

[Ladd Spencer]

It was only an upgrade in X1. In X2, he dashes from the start.

Uh, yea, I know that.

[Karasai♪]

I [tornado fang]ing hated X3's armored double charged buster

Its so delayed and one of the shots is so wimpy and weak.

[Treleus]

Try Project Zero. It totally fixes it. At least when you combine the two charges. I don't think the first shot could be sped up, or you couldn't cross the charges in the first place. I think that coudl be offset, though, by not having it force X to a stop or off a ladder.

[zuschzero]

I have to correct myself a bit: So, Split Mushroom is actually the best stage in the game, Frost Walrus is also a good level and Cyber Peacock also has moments.
But the rest is still just meh.

[Hypershell]

No, he's right. While I will praise up and down how awesome X2's Double Shot is, the one thing that holds it back is that it actually does stop you dead when you fire the first shot on the ground. Try walking or dashing and then fire the first half.

The thing is, with X2's double buster, you didn't NEED to move.  You were assured that whatever was standing in front of you was about to get completely annihilated.

Not so in X3.  The shot is stronger than the standard, yes, but nowhere NEAR the strength of the previous titles.

As far as ZX goes, yeah, the lack of a two-arm visual is unfortunate.  Seemingly ever since X5 such a visual has gone the way of the dinosaur.  You'd think that making both left-handed and right-handed buster sprites would be cake compared to, say, walking saber slashes.

[Treleus]

Well, you didn't need to, but I don't think there was a good reason to stop you moving in the first place. It'd feel better if you weren't.

Actually the double-shot sprite ended with X4.

[Gaia]

I [tornado fang]ing hated X3's armored double charged buster

Its so delayed and one of the shots is so wimpy and weak.

This. One Thousand Times This. I hate having to let it go on the third charge just so I can hit Kaiser Sigma's head. And what's even dumber is removing the password system that records the placement in the fortresses. I liked that in X2 and saves me a helluva time fighting the same [parasitic bomb] again, it's why I hate X3's difficulty curve. Some bosses are cake yet others are outright difficult, the hell?

[Hypershell]

Well, you didn't need to, but I don't think there was a good reason to stop you moving in the first place. It'd feel better if you weren't.

Actually the double-shot sprite ended with X4.

Yes, but X4 didn't have anyone performing a double shot in the first place.  X5 did.

[OBJECTION MAN]

X4 had the Quad-Shot.

[Treleus]

Out of one buster. And they were puny.

[Pyro]

My fondness for X4 is probably more out of nostalgia because it was the game that made me want to get a PlayStation, and I certainly wasn't going to buy one for Crash Bandicoot back in '98. That aside, I cannot argue against the fact that X4's soundtrack is lackluster at best. Then again I thought that X2 and X3 had pretty bad to horrible music compared to X1 with only a few exceptions (Gravity Beetle comes to mind.) None of those games could even touch tracks like Storm Eagle, Boomer Kuwanger, or the Boss Battle.

I will concede on level design because it was really nothing to write home about.

I thought the graphics were pretty good, though I wonder why they did not use the charging animation from X4 in X5 and X6. That swirl was a nice touch, and the boss design? X4 had the best boss designs since the original game because to put it bluntly, I disliked the boss designs for X2/3. They really did not do anything for me. I will always have a soft spot for Magma Dragoon.

[Gaia]

Probably because Magma Dragoon had a unique gig going for him at the time, as he was probably the only one of the regular eight bosses to appear in the intro stage in the X series as of yet, and being fleshed out more to boot.

Also, there's Final Fantasy VII if there's another reason to buy a PlayStation. Other than than it being able to play games it itself was mostly an overglorified CD Player.

And yeah, I could just jam out to one of the tracks in X5 and X6, but I just found Walrus' stage to be a bit more theraputic/christmas oriented than a song to slaughtering countless mechanaloids. That and X2 & 3 put a little overemphasis in the guitar I find.

[Hypershell]

X4 had the Quad-Shot.

X doesn't have four arms.

I thought the graphics were pretty good, though I wonder why they did not use the charging animation from X4 in X5 and X6.

Well, they do in X5 if you fight against X.

Oddly enough, the X5/X6 charge animation looks pretty darn good at lower framerates; the "sparks" are positioned so that they have an almost SNES-like pattern to them as they converge.  The problem is they ramped up the framerate so damn high that it just looks like a bunch of lines.

[Melsurigan]

I secretly kinda hated X4 for the longest time, since it turned the X series from badass and rock-heavy into a "tragic", these-robots-you're-killing-are-not-evil whine-fest with generic techno music. The X franchise would not recover UNTIL THE LAST GAME IN THE SERIES, when we finally got the unfettered awesomeness that our heroes have lacked for so long.


((No offense to Command Mission though; I loved that game and its music.))

[Ladd Spencer]

X8's physics were retarded, and every level was a gimmick. I share not your love for it. I honestly prefer X7.

[Flame]

X7's physics were not much better, to be honest. They were in fact, broken. You could not dash wall kick properly. X8's physics were not an issue, its just... other things that were. I could name a few, but the biggest is bland level design with very little replay value. Trillobyte's is the worst offender, using the gimmick of the giant Mechaniloid to repeat the short stage twice, back and forth, with 2 quick miniboss fights with it, and then a really weird miniboss section with random crystal wall dodging. (and not to mention TWO- not one, but TWO ride chaser stages.) Only Stages that were any good, were the Primrose, and a LITTLE bit of the Booster Forest and Pitch Black. Neither was perfect, but were alright for certain aspects. Particularly Pitch Black's Metal Gear X stealth aspect which was interesting and fun to play around with as Axl.

And Jakob was alright, if only for the novelty of the concept, and the execution, which was well done. (you actually see the sky get darker outside as you get further up in the sky)

And I would say that X8's music is "generic" rock. Most of it was forgettable outside of a scant few tunes.

[Ladd Spencer]

X8's music is forgettable. The final stages are cool. The Attack of the Clones level is the best level in the game.