Mega Man Starbound - Galaxy's Champion

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Offline N-Mario

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Reply #75 on: March 12, 2012, 08:02:41 AM
Just putting up a post saying that the color on/off option in the game engine now works. I changed the BG color of stage 1 with a different color to show the difference of playing in color, and in GB black & white. :)

I still need to work out a couple of bugs and other things like improving the movement engine. But it's getting there. :-/



Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #76 on: March 12, 2012, 02:10:19 PM
Also, I think Dr. Wily's outline is too light. I think it needs to be darker. I agree for a gray outline, just make it darker. Another note some of Dr. Wily's sprites have black pixels on his feet (top row). Shouldn't they be white, or the same color as his white?

Sorry NMario but i'm gonna keep the lighter grey outline. We need consistency. Dr Light has the same primary colour as Wily so they must have the same colour outline. But thanks for the keen spot with the missing white pixels. Its fixed.

Just putting up a post saying that the color on/off option in the game engine now works. I changed the BG color of stage 1 with a different color to show the difference of playing in color, and in GB black & white. :)
I still need to work out a couple of bugs and other things like improving the movement engine. But it's getting there. :-/

Looking awesome! This has to be one of the coolest features for this fangame, its what'll help make it unique. When people start LP'ing the game, it will always be a surprise as to what style they'll play it in. I also think that in the long run we may end up having several borders too, borders that will change depending on what level you are. So not only will we need new sprites for the Stardroids, but some nice pixel art of them to go in the border.

I have always enjoyed scripting, but I never had a chance to actually utilize this passion, especially for someone else.  But, here goes a little bit of it.

Sorry Yllisos, but I don't think any of the Regular Stardroids will have speaking parts. This script may be possible elsewhere though but I doubt Mega Man would ever face Orion anywhere else but in his stage. Thought is appreciated though. I'd rather wait till I've perfected the plot before I ask for any script ideas from you guys. Just be patient and you'll soon get your chance everyone.

Yes, eventually I'll have all the levels colored.
No problem and if you need music, I have my own band and can help with that too.

If you can work with Gameboy instruments, I'm all for the help! I'm definately going to ask for Kevvviiinnn's help too. He's getting back into the Mega Man mood and he's yet to try Gameboy style music. I think he may like the challenge. I'm personally thinking of attempting the Title Song first, two ideas that come to mind is an homage to MMV's style of music and perhaps a little ref to Sakura's Theme, like in the Trailer to Mega Mania.

Will the stardroids be shaped similar in design to the Robot Masters i.e mostly humanoid in shape? Or will they be more like the Reploids in Megaman Zero? I ask because some of the designs I wonder about.

This is designed to be a direct sequel to Mega Man V, so for consistencies sake, these new Stardroids are going to look very similar in style to the humanoid Stardroids from the last game. Just think of Pluto or Uranus, they were still humanoid yet still had animal features. So keep that in mind for Stardroids like: Arcturus (Bear), Vega (Vulture) or Hydra (Serpent).



Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #77 on: March 12, 2012, 09:01:23 PM
Here guys, with permission from Availation on deviantart, I've borrowed his Duo sprite and reduced it down to NES 8 Bit colours. What do you guys think? I wanna see if you fellows like it before I continue with the full sheet and do it GBA style.




Offline N-Mario

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Reply #78 on: March 12, 2012, 11:16:17 PM
I have updated the game engine a bit. The X and Y Movement is getting more accurate to the GB Megaman game starting with MM IV.


For those who want to make a tile set for us, make a note how the SNES GBA color reference the differences.


Left - SNES Colors
Right - GBA Colors.

Some of the colors get a difference of 48. While the green shade (and some other shades) gets a difference of 32.

The lowest shade increase/decrease amount should be about 16. Because 48 - 32 = 16.

The highest color shade for each R G B is 248. Where the white shade stays at RGB 248 for both screens.



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Reply #79 on: March 12, 2012, 11:19:48 PM
Here guys, with permission from Availation on deviantart, I've borrowed his Duo sprite and reduced it down to NES 8 Bit colours. What do you guys think? I wanna see if you fellows like it before I continue with the full sheet and do it GBA style.


From first sight it seems to be a bit too detailed, maybe if you posted it side-to-side with the other chracters and on the original size it'll be easier to tell if that's the case.

The engine seems to be advancing smoothly, I'm liking what I've seen so far.


Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #80 on: March 12, 2012, 11:45:06 PM
From first sight it seems to be a bit too detailed, maybe if you posted it side-to-side with the other chracters and on the original size it'll be easier to tell if that's the case.

Here you go, here are some side-by-side comparisons with other characters, and even with other versions of Duo in existence.

« Last Edit: January 13, 2013, 09:11:43 PM by Yoku Man »



Offline KoiDrake

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Reply #81 on: March 13, 2012, 12:46:17 AM
I like the right one, left one seems to be a bit too bright. Not sure about Light's pants, the blue there looks weird, I would color them the same way as Wily's (just gray)
As for Duo, he looks kinda out of place, like he is missing that "chibi" style the rest of the characters have. The RM8FC would fit more, but I would touch it up to make it look more beefy, looks a bit skiny right now :P

Just my personal opinions...


Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #82 on: March 13, 2012, 01:24:27 AM
I like the right one, left one seems to be a bit too bright. Not sure about Light's pants, the blue there looks weird, I would color them the same way as Wily's (just gray)
As for Duo, he looks kinda out of place, like he is missing that "chibi" style the rest of the characters have. The RM8FC would fit more, but I would touch it up to make it look more beefy, looks a bit skiny right now :P

Just my personal opinions...

So looks like we may have to come up with something original then for Duo. I'll update the first post with the new outlined Doctors.



Offline N-Mario

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Reply #83 on: March 13, 2012, 01:45:51 AM
I kind of think the NeoGeo Pocket version of Duo would fit. After all, the NeoGeo MegaMan & ProtoMan are sort of a re-touched up version of their NES sprites, correct? If not, we could touch up Duo's Neo Geo Pocket sprite to work with the style we are going for. ;)

Also, this is just a thought for the engine itself. For an example game, we could use 1 robot master from each GB game. for example. Elec Man MMI, Air Man MMII, Top Man MMIII (or MMII part 2), Drill Man MMIV. Or would you rather prefer original robot masters for the engine? I can come up with 4 new robot masters, but since we already have colorized maps of some of the levels already, just thought I point that out.

And of course Stars would still have his own game, with the stardroids, Duo, and all that he has planned. I just needed something to work with for the base of operations. :)



Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #84 on: March 13, 2012, 04:20:03 AM
I kind of think the NeoGeo Pocket version of Duo would fit. After all, the NeoGeo MegaMan & ProtoMan are sort of a re-touched up version of their NES sprites, correct? If not, we could touch up Duo's Neo Geo Pocket sprite to work with the style we are going for. ;)

Also, this is just a thought for the engine itself. For an example game, we could use 1 robot master from each GB game. for example. Elec Man MMI, Air Man MMII, Top Man MMIII (or MMII part 2), Drill Man MMIV. Or would you rather prefer original robot masters for the engine? I can come up with 4 new robot masters, but since we already have colorized maps of some of the levels already, just thought I point that out.

And of course Stars would still have his own game, with the stardroids, Duo, and all that he has planned. I just needed something to work with for the base of operations. :)

We'll need a good sprite artist to do Duo justice, to change him up to fit the NES/GB era style. He should still be taller than everyone else as thats what he always was, but I agree he needs to somehow lose detail so that he fits in among the other basic looking chibi characters.

As for your idea for levels. Cool! Go with it, yeh use Elec Man, Air Man, Top Man and Drill Man. Templates are templates and it'll be nice examples of what the engine can do and how accurate it can try to be to the original levels. But of course I'd recommend we improve upon MMII's abominations and put in some better sprites for the enemies in that level. I think the Pipi and the Lightning Lords could be borrowed from MMI anyway. And we could just make a GB version of Air Man's NES sprite as apposed to the monstrosity that was his GB form.

Can't wait to play Air Man's stage with GOOD platform physics too, would also finally be able to Jump and Shoot into the boss door lol!



Offline N-Mario

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Reply #85 on: March 13, 2012, 04:48:07 AM
We'll need a good sprite artist to do Duo justice, to change him up to fit the NES/GB era style. He should still be taller than everyone else as thats what he always was, but I agree he needs to somehow lose detail so that he fits in among the other basic looking chibi characters.

As for your idea for levels. Cool! Go with it, yeh use Elec Man, Air Man, Top Man and Drill Man. Templates are templates and it'll be nice examples of what the engine can do and how accurate it can try to be to the original levels. But of course I'd recommend we improve upon MMII's abominations and put in some better sprites for the enemies in that level. I think the Pipi and the Lightning Lords could be borrowed from MMI anyway. And we could just make a GB version of Air Man's NES sprite as apposed to the monstrosity that was his GB form.

Can't wait to play Air Man's stage with GOOD platform physics too, would also finally be able to Jump and Shoot into the boss door lol!

Those were just some ideas. I could go with either Ice Man, Cut Man, or Fire Man instead of Elec man. But case in point, yea. ;)

So you suggest we use NES sprites of robot masters for the engine, change their color to the GB style, while MM has is own GB sprites? Considering there actually was a screen of Air Man MMII with the Mega Man Mania palette using the GB sprite. I'm just sayin, putting it out there. :-/



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Reply #86 on: March 13, 2012, 06:34:01 AM
IMO some kind of mix between the Duo on the left and the neo geo one would be best IMO. personally, i think the neo geo one itself would be good if it was touched up a bit. (his head is too small compared to the other characters, and hes just too small in general) the RM8FC Duo looks pretty bad IMO.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline N-Mario

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Reply #87 on: March 13, 2012, 07:26:45 AM
Did a few more updates to the game engine.

Began to add sound. Oddly enough, some sounds get cut off under flash, but it seems to be fine in application version. I'll have a look at it later.



Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #88 on: March 13, 2012, 03:02:06 PM
Those were just some ideas. I could go with either Ice Man, Cut Man, or Fire Man instead of Elec man. But case in point, yea. ;)

So you suggest we use NES sprites of robot masters for the engine, change their color to the GB style, while MM has is own GB sprites? Considering there actually was a screen of Air Man MMII with the Mega Man Mania palette using the GB sprite. I'm just sayin, putting it out there. :-/

I personally wanna see Elec Man stage so we can code GB baby Yoku Blocks!

Concerning Air Man stage... Inafune himself apologised for MMII. It was never properly constructed, if Inafune had his way they would have had proper NES style sprites for the enemies in that game. But I suppose if we're striving for authenticity, we'll keep the original GB sprites then. But I've always wondered how a MMII level would favour with improved sprites and physics.

Did a few more updates to the game engine.

Began to add sound. Oddly enough, some sounds get cut off under flash, but it seems to be fine in application version. I'll have a look at it later.

Sounding good, the exe version that is. Weird why some sounds cut off only in the flash version.

Looks like the engine is coming together at a steady pace. Keep up the good work NMario! I'll continue with other sprites for now, still need to finish, Beat, Eddie, Rush, Tango, Bass, Treble, Reggae and Auto. All your regulars that are destined to be in the game. Will be awesome to see GB versions of Auto and Bass.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #89 on: March 13, 2012, 04:23:19 PM
I'll admit this is pretty interesting. Are you planning on remaking MMI-V, and adding a new game, or just the new game? I can't seem to tell with your posts.

The other topic I'd like to bring up is stylizing and color use. I would imagine the ports here, in the real version of the game that got canned, are using GBA color formats. For instance, Mars in the screen shot we have thanks to Flame's link, seems to be using a [parasitic bomb] ton of colors. Under normal GBC standards (flicker issues, it could actually display that many colors easily, but not the amount of sprites needed to do that all together), which I presumed the game would have followed, that is just too much to not cause flicker hell. It is evident by this and a few other examples, that this is a re-code from the GB originals into GBA format.

This gives you a lot of freedom while remaining authentic to the original. A little about GBA color format;

16 palettes, each of 16 colors (15 + 1 transparent), for sprites
16 palettes, each of 16 colors (15 + 1 transparent), for backgrounds

This wealth of palettes is also what allows the colored outlines. I would reconsider the contrast of some of these palettes though. The GBA was developed under with the intention of washed out colors to support it's somewhat darker screen. I wouldn't take the colors just 'as is' for this. In fact, under normal GBA operation, they wouldn't look as washed out as emulation does. This is why there is a "real colors" option in emulators like VBA. There is no reason to force the same washed out look here. At the same time, there is no reason to strictly adhere to the NES palette set, or any other either. Be vibrant, and deep. Select good colors to complement the style. I'd recommend starting with a little more contrast, especially on megaman. His dark blue should be a little bit darker. Think of it in the same way the darker Dr Wily grey is preferred over the lighter.

I noticed some games were still in GBC 'colorized' format too. This makes me wonder how much additional sprite work would have been done if the game was not cancelled? Another curious note along these lines; Megaman's buster has a white shine to it, not light blue, when firing as seen in the screen shots from Flame's link. I personally see this as a mistake, or the cause of unfinished work. It looks weird being the only white highlight.

The backgrounds are looking very much as if they're following a 4 color per tile rule (assuming not transparent, where the 4th would the darkest color), with a few exceptions. I spot some tiles with 5 colors, adding a detail or two. This looks fine, I'd say continue that trend. It complements the higher color sprites, but if you go too overboard Megaman will begin to look out of place.

Take the examples of the final state of the project with a grain of salt. It seems unfinished at best, but do leave hints to the style they want to give.

These are things to consider as you develop the style for this game.


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Offline N-Mario

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Reply #90 on: March 13, 2012, 09:14:58 PM
Updated the engine.

-Re-recorded the sounds, adjusting the volume lower.
-Added robot master portraits for stage select screen. Added music for this frame.
-Fixed jump max height. Originally while MM's gravity was almost exact with the GB megaman, my MM was jumping a few pixels up too high. Now they both jump up the same # of pixels for the max height.
-Fixed some of the sounds for the flash build.
-Added a GB style boot up screen.
-Added a disclaimer screen.

Though the robot masters may be temporary. But I think Elec Man may stay in favor for StarsimsUniverse. Ring Man might stay. Not sure about the other two at the moment.



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Reply #91 on: March 14, 2012, 08:58:11 AM
Elecman stage is completed for your Yoku block pleasures. If you want plan on adding any fanning physics I'll try to animate the fans too.

http://www.1ccgaming.com/mmgbcc/elecmanmm1gb.png - As said in the other thread, I followed the NES example and changed the bg a bit towards the end of the stage.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #92 on: March 14, 2012, 04:44:10 PM
Alright then;

Color adjusted Megaman:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8914/yokummmmegamanobjmancol.gif

Elecman Stage color adjust:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4484/elecmanstageobjmancolor.gif

Duo sprites? Based on Power Battles & Fighters

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1603/pbfduoobjmanedits2.gif

Mock screen shots to show how it all fits:








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Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #93 on: March 14, 2012, 05:33:07 PM
Interesting, interesting. Though I think the Cyan is too close to being green now. Though the Elec Man stage edit is intruiging. Have you compared this to how Elec Man's stage is shown in the trailer by chance?

I think that Duo could work but I think he needs an additional colour for his outlines. You need to consider we're basing the sprites off the gameboy, in those games Mega man was given extra outlines so that his skin wouldn't clash with his helmet, they were the same grey colour. This is something to consider when designing new sprites. Not only do we have to colour them in GBA style but we need to consider how their grayscale version would look.

So far the sprites I've edited already have existing Gameboy sprites, and I've made sure to use them so any additional pixels Capcom added, remain on them. Try to do Duo in Greyscale now, it'll help you identify where to put the black lines (which will eventually become the new darker outline for the GBA sprite.)



Offline N-Mario

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Reply #94 on: March 14, 2012, 05:39:38 PM
Alright then;

Color adjusted Megaman:

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/8914/yokummmmegamanobjmancol.gif

Elecman Stage color adjust:

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/4484/elecmanstageobjmancolor.gif

Duo sprites? Based on Power Battles & Fighters

http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1603/pbfduoobjmanedits2.gif

Mock screen shots to show how it all fits:








Yea I don't know why we needed another color adjusted megaman as we already had one. Unless these colors are based on how the GBA colors work or something. But still, it looks too much green than the small screen shots & videos we've seen from the lost game. :-/

BTW, nice try at your hand at a color Elec Man stage. Although I think the sky is a bit too much. I kind of like IQ-0's colors better. ;)



Offline Yoku Man

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Reply #95 on: March 14, 2012, 06:08:16 PM
But don't be discouraged by our disagreements this time. Keep up the good work Objection Man! We will need to continuously have upcoming sprites and tilesets scrutinized, I'm sure some will need changing at some point. Just unfortunately its seems those last ones weren't convincing enough ;)



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #96 on: March 14, 2012, 06:39:58 PM
Yes, the Duo one's aren't that great. Just a quick one shot, a possible starting point. I'll get to those later though.

Elecman stage:
I don't have much of a problem with the green as a color selection, since it's a nice complement to orange in this case, but for the purposes of an electrical stage it felt off. I chose purple, since blue was taken by the sky. The sky could be reduced back to the darker version if need be. I did change the fans though too, and the ladders. As far as the original goes, I believe a re-examination of the selective highlighting is needed. The green flooring and the ladders needed a touch up there the most. I can go over the concept of selective highlighting if requested.

EDIT: insert into this portion;
Have you compared this to how Elec Man's stage is shown in the trailer by chance?
The trailer didn't, but the screen shots Flame linked to did. They used blue, my original thought as the orange compliment, but since the sky was also, I chose purple.

Megaman:
It was made a little too intense, my apologizes. It was in an effort to keep the popping saturated feel, while retaining Megaman's traditional coloring. Not noticeable as much in NES emulators, for their use of default inaccurate palettes; Megaman has always had a notably teal lighter color, also present in also MM7 and MM8 especially which don't have the same color distortions when rendering their images. This was a mistake to turn it so high though.

Either way... Not sure exactly what I was thinking, now that I review things there wasn't much of a difference otherwise. However in an effort to compensate for GBA contrast differences, ie devs making the game desaturated and bright, here is a contrast adjusted version, with a reverted light color back toward blue more. The main focus here would be the face, has much less bleeding with the white of the eye. Also the outline had been contrasted just enough to take the edge off of the color bleeding between dark armor color and outline.

However, in addition, the palette for the image was a mess, including multiple shades of the same colors, for instance 4 different face colors spread across the sprites. I solidified it into a simple cohesive palette. There was also an unused color shown in the bottom left color table after solidifying, so it was also removed.


http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8914/yokummmmegamanobjmancol.gif

I sound like an idiot after all that. I'm not quite sure what possessed me to put the green that high. The hyper saturation is a very weird style for sure. Certainly sleep deprivation has taken it's toll...

As an additional topic, the shading and coloring differences between NES Megaman and GB Megaman, and how their respective games and original designs have changed and diverged because of the GameBoy palette limitations is something I'll want to get into. The Duo in grey scale is a perfect opportunity to really display why they did what they did, and why the GB colorization project had to go so high color as it did. Really interesting stuff, I've had a few discussions with Zan on the topic before too. I'll tackle it when I have a bit more time though, since its pretty in depth.


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Offline N-Mario

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Reply #97 on: March 15, 2012, 01:41:20 AM
Well, they do still need some serious work. We still need to set up the pattern routine, fix possible errors (getting stuck when they appear on you) and everything. :-/

From what you can tell, I already went ahead and put a section of Elec Man's stage in the game. Thanks IQ-0 for the colorized maps. :)



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Reply #98 on: March 15, 2012, 04:00:16 AM
I don't see how this is a milestone?



But officially, they're called Shutsugen Blocks, which means disappearing blocks or vanishing blocks. XD

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Offline N-Mario

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Reply #99 on: March 15, 2012, 04:06:13 AM


But officially, they're called Shutsugen Blocks, which means disappearing blocks or vanishing blocks. XD

So Yoku Man's Japanese, or alternative name could be Shutsugen Man?  o~O


In all seriousness, I think most of us knew what they are called anyway. ^_^