Topic: Keiji Inafune leaves Capcom (UPDATE)

[Flame]

X8 was personal preference. MHX was just to use less curves. it states that if they want to use less curves on the model, then they can streamline the helmet design. THATS why its such a "big deal" as it were. its a negligible thing that they went out of their way to make as simple as possible on a model that like Hyper said, detail was not going to be so visible on. And then redesigned the character's helmet in his character artwork around that

Unless you mean, the skimping on the curves was the personal preference. Concept art shows the helmet like it should be. They even thought ahead for the Zero ll helmet. though I dont remember what that noted off the top of my head.

[Aresian]

Haha, this thread.

[Hypershell]

I trust that OBJECTION MAN knows what he's talking about.  We know that "more simple/compact" was Yoshikawa's motive for the switch (MMXOCW, page 138), but he could have simply been obsessing over nothing.

Much like us, except he was paid to do it.

That's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a long time. Bravo, Flame, bravo. Do I really have to get into the differences between pixel art and 3D models here? Nah, I won't even bother, there's no point.

Also, 3D models =/= 2D pictures.

Nobody cares about the character model (Zero's hair doesn't spin with him in X7, and how often do we talk about that?).  What is nonsensical is that the character art was changed to reflect it.  There are no "system resources" when one is drawing.  Had only the model been affected, then assuming we as players had the ability to discern such a shift (which having played MHX on a PSP3000, I seriously doubt), we'd have simply attributed it to a lack of detail.  And, given the quality of MHX's character models otherwise, it wouldn't have been the least bit unusual.

[Zan]

The very fact that they chose the "simpler and compact" version for the art as well simply means that they did not consider that design inferior to the original. And if it works well, they would want to be consistent about it.

I mean, I think his MHX helmet looks pretty damn cool, moreso than his original. The original just got way too wide in front view. So why wouldn't want to go with the new one for simple aesthetic reasons as well?

Furthermore, it might come as a surprise to some, but the original helmet is actually easier to sprite than the new helmet; sprites don't like being too compact.

[Hypershell]

The very fact that they chose the "simpler and compact" version for the art as well simply means that they did not consider that design inferior to the original.

At what point did we imply that Yoshikawa shares the same objections we do to his own work?  You're stating the obvious.

Let me do the same: We believe he was wrong.

And if it works well, they would want to be consistent about it.

Somebody probably said the same thing about his X8 redesigns.  I don't see much of a need to screw with what worked for 9 games across 10 years, especially when you're still working within the same series (at least Inticreates has the excuse of wanting to distinguish their spinoff).  Yeah, it's fun at first, but the novelty wears off.

I mean, I think his MHX helmet looks pretty damn cool, moreso than his original. The original just got way too wide in front view. So why wouldn't want to go with the new one for simple aesthetic reasons as well?

Height and width are two different things (see X3's character-change screen).

[Flame]

I mean, I think his MHX helmet looks pretty damn cool, moreso than his original. The original just got way too wide in front view. So why wouldn't want to go with the new one for simple aesthetic reasons as well?

hoo boy. I disagree, and boy do I. Zero's helmet is probably the feature that stands out the MOST on him. it is spiky and looks like horns of some sort. the helmet curves up and theres two, and then outwards, for another two. those back two are what gives his design its personality. it makes him LOOK imposing. what they did with the X8 helmet was atrocious. However, as a redesign for the game, I can accept that. (even though the helmet could STILL have been retained but just streamlined a bit) MHX continues the same trend as X8, that is- making Zero's helmet look as non threatening ass possible. Leveling the horns is not the way to go. make them not jut out to the sides? ok, I can get behind that. but NOT making them the same height. that just makes them look retarded.

Also, the fact of WHY they changed is what we dislike, we can buy it being artistic liberty, but it wasnt. it was plain lazyness.

Zero- l Complimentary Head ideas:
"The design of the back of his head is pretty complicated, so simplify the levels of his horns. Make his whole head more compact."


Zero - ll Head ideas:
*"if we make the mold simpler with less depth than the Zero - l model, we can use the leveled horns"

*"However, this would increase the number of curves, so we'll have to be more careful with 3D models.


Its all about "oh its  pretty complicated, so lets make the horns the same height so its easier to model"

[Zan]

At what point did we imply that Yoshikawa shares the same objections we do to his own work?  You're stating the obvious.

Let me do the same: We believe he was wrong.

You guys are the ones citing "modeling ease" as the sole reason for the changing, backing your disgust of it. I'm telling you that if they did not see aesthetic value in the redesign, it would have never happened in the first place; no matter what technical advantage it offered.

Height and width are two different things (see X3's character-change screen).

I'm specifically referring to how wide it is at front view. Compare:
http://mmxz.zophar.net/megamanxz/megamanxtreme2/mmx2salessheet.jpg
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t109/jacfalcon/Anime%20Stuff/megamanxdayofsigma-ZeroX.jpg

For the sleeker X1 design, compared to the powerhouse X2+ design, it should not be that wide.

But NOT making them the same height. that just makes them look retarded.

They're not exactly at the same height:
http://img.youtube.com/vi/G_zYsxFOwIM/0.jpg

Its all about "oh its  pretty complicated, so lets make the horns the same height so its easier to model"

Strange, from what you quoted, they say the leveled horns would be more difficult to model; the very opposite.

[Ramzal]

What does any of this have to do with Inafune leaving?

[KudosForce]

What does any of this have to do with Inafune leaving?

Nothing at all. Going off-topic is how RPM rolls.

[Zan]

What does any of this have to do with Inafune leaving?

Everything! Without Inafune Zero's helmet design can be butchered by Capcom with nobody to stop it!

[KudosForce]

Well, that's a bit of a convoluted reason, but sure, why not?

Then again, this makes me think; After Legends 3 and Universe, what does everyone think Capcom will do next with Mega Man (leaving the franchise to die being out of the question)?

A new series? Another Classic series entry? Or something completely different? The possibilities are numerous...

[Flame]

leaving the franchise to die being out of the question

To be honest, thats the only thing I would worry about with Inafuneless capcom. He wont be there to push for sequels.

[KudosForce]

That's true, but we're far from the days when Capcom thought Mega Man wouldn't catch on.

Regardless, we'll have to wait and see.

[Flame]

That's true, but we're far from the days when Capcom thought Mega Man wouldn't catch on.

Regardless, we'll have to wait and see.

Thats not the problem. if something doesnt sell, Capcom wont pursue it. Otherwie we would have had legends 3 and ZX3 already.

[Acid]

To be honest, thats the only thing I would worry about with Inafuneless capcom. He wont be there to push for sequels.

Nah. They'll make MM games as long as they make (enough) money.

Actually, Capcom has the MM formula so down that I think a lack of Inafune can harm it much. What will suffer is the story though.

So basically:

gameplay is safe, story might be in danger

[Flame]

That IS something that I would worry about too, but like its been previously said, he only was a writer in X4, a little bit before too. after X4, he just dropped out of the X series, and the story has done just fine. X6 had one of the BEST stories in the X series, and he had nothing to do with that game. same for Command Mission, which was very story intense. X8 too to an extent. (I would mention X7, but the plot was basically just a repeat of X4. Sigma plays both sides to fight each other)

[Aresian]

Nah. They'll make MM games as long as they make (enough) money.

Actually, Capcom has the MM formula so down that I think a lack of Inafune can harm it much. What will suffer is the story though.

So basically:

gameplay is safe, story might be in danger

Or the story might be better. Who knows.

I'm sure it'll be better than this.



Also, HOW'RE YOU FLAME! WELCOME BACK!

[Flame]

yes, hi!

[KudosForce]

I think the story should be fine, especially since Classic MM didn't rely on deep plots in the first place. Granted, there was the occasional sillyness (Wily's "Mr. X" ploy), but it wasn't too bad.

For the stories in more serious series, that's where we should show concern.

[Flame]

Thats what we mean. But like I said. the X series has been just FINE without him since X4.

[Zan]

he only was a writer in X4

At best X1.

And I don't recall Inafune ever doing anything good for the story in Rockman. The only thing he's done is force Zero into it.

[KudosForce]

If it's any indication, he didn't always get involved with Classic MM stories either (he was an object designer according to MM6's credits, for one).

[Zan]

Did he EVER get involved with classic stories? He always was a character designer. He had as much input into the story as any other member of the team.

[KudosForce]

True. Heck, sometimes, he didn't get time to do all of the art.

When you put it that way, I realize he only became famous as he did due to being part of the staff since the start (well, since he joined after MM1's production started)...Well, that, and him convincing Capcom to even consider a sequel.

[Flame]

The only hing he was good for is doing Zero's story. Though even then, he would just be vague about it when asked for detailes, such as say, if Serges and Isoc are Wily, (when we all know they are in some way, him.) and although X4 and 5 were cool what with Zero being the focus, he was the ONLY focus. Its nice if you focus on Zero, but X should get some of that too.

And even though the Zero series is supposedly his series, didnt inti create most of the story themselves? he was only approached for the OK. And MAYBE the premise for Zero 1.