New Capcom game to be showcased at Comic-Con

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Offline Mirby

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Reply #75 on: July 11, 2010, 03:46:51 AM
your quote tags are in an orgy again, Flash.

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything


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Reply #76 on: July 11, 2010, 04:01:45 AM
PB: I disagree with them being comparitive in the soap level. Because honestly, most Anime isn't that long drawn out like comics tend to be with this stuff. Or horribly convoluted with the way they constantly pull something new out of their ass. But...

Flash: I might take you up on that offer, because I'm not exactly the ignorant type that just takes my opinion and nothing else into consideration. I'm just adamant in what I believe. It is mostly a matter of what I can acquire on a budget, nothing at the moment.



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Reply #77 on: July 11, 2010, 04:04:03 AM
It's still a button-like imput.
If that were true the DualShock wouldn't use sticks in the first place; it has enough buttons to function as a digital movement+camera system.  Heck, that's what Armored Core does.

And yes, I am aware of pressure-sensitivity and the three-or-so games that actually use it.

Quote
You're telling me that after having those two issues fixed, the analog could just be replaced?
It'd certainly beat the hell out of using four buttons to replace a stick.

Quote
Jak isn't a third person shooter. (don't you dare say that it is because you shoot and see in the third person)
Was it not you who said that Metroid Prime is a first-person shooter because you shoot and see from the first person?

So, yeah, I'll say it.  You shoot and you see in the third person.  Is there any other means of offense in the game which I should be aware of?  (Swords do not count; their co-existence with MegaMan has been well established including both Legends games.)

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If you keep referring to a ten-year old game as having the best gameplay for third person shooting
I never did anything of the sort.  I presented it as a solution to finding a common point of reference.  If you reject that, you make the discussion extremely difficult.

I'll take you up on your offer, though:  Gears Of War is no Legends.  The gun action may be fast-paced, but player movement is still sluggish.  Trigger could run circles around them.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEa4v8oAmk[/youtube]
In the first ten seconds you see how troublesome it is when an enemy, even a slow one, gets close to you.  Any non-locking shooter depends on maintaining a decent range.  In a lock-on game, overly close combat is never an issue, and there are numerous enemies in Legends 2 whose behavior takes full advantage of it.

Not saying such a game can't be great, it can.  I think it looks really freaking awesome.  But it can't be Legends.

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Reply #78 on: July 11, 2010, 04:22:22 AM
Ono adds on some more tweet-teasing...

Quote from: Ono
I was able to prepare Trailer of Comic-con. Don't miss it on next Saturday !!

- http://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/18199679128

*o* Can't wait...



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Reply #79 on: July 11, 2010, 05:01:13 AM
If that were true the DualShock wouldn't use sticks in the first place; it has enough buttons to function as a digital movement+camera system.  Heck, that's what Armored Core does.

And yes, I am aware of pressure-sensitivity and the three-or-so games that actually use it.
It'd certainly beat the hell out of using four buttons to replace a stick.
Was it not you who said that Metroid Prime is a first-person shooter because you shoot and see from the first person?

So, yeah, I'll say it.  You shoot and you see in the third person.  Is there any other means of offense in the game which I should be aware of?  (Swords do not count; their co-existence with MegaMan has been well established including both Legends games.)
I never did anything of the sort.  I presented it as a solution to finding a common point of reference.  If you reject that, you make the discussion extremely difficult.

I'll take you up on your offer, though:  Gears Of War is no Legends.  The gun action may be fast-paced, but player movement is still sluggish.  Trigger could run circles around them.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGEa4v8oAmk[/youtube]
In the first ten seconds you see how troublesome it is when an enemy, even a slow one, gets close to you.  Any non-locking shooter depends on maintaining a decent range.  In a lock-on game, overly close combat is never an issue, and there are numerous enemies in Legends 2 whose behavior takes full advantage of it.

Not saying such a game can't be great, it can.  I think it looks really freaking awesome.  But it can't be Legends.
The Dual Shock would need hundreds of buttons just to fully recognize every single different imput an analog can do in every single position it can be.
Although pressure sensitivity doesn't really work on many games, my point is that it exists. Makes analog sticks closer to button imput than a pointer.

And anything would beat the hell out of using 4 buttons to move a camera. Using page up and page down would beat the hell out of those. Using a crank to move the perspective through the console mechanically while making sure the steam engine has enough coal would beat those 4 buttons. 4-button camera movement is probably the worst kind of imput one can have.

Metroid Prime's genre has been widely debated. I believe it's a first person shooter. But you won't find a single sane person who will call Jak a "third person shooter". Is Final Fantasy VII a first person shooter? Well it's in the third person, and you can select Barret to shoot things. That's an awful example. And YES. Jak 2 introduced weapons in the franchise, but there are two different melee attacks you've been able to use since the very first game, and they're still maintained as primary attacks. One of which is the spin attack from Crash Bandicoot, which is used with the Circle button, and the other is a punching move, which is used with the Square button. And even if the weapon was the only attack in the game, the fact remains that you don't get to AIM it properly. Thus, it's not a third-person shooter, and you won't find it defined as one anywhere. Heck, the game has a full racing gameplay engine, which is used several times within the game and which is way better than alot of racers on the market. Is it a racing game? No. It's a free-roaming platform game.

Gears of War has a slow player movement because it's supposed to mimic regular human movement. But you can sprint and dodge in the game, and there's a perfectly good melee attack with the saw. Every single TPS game worth a damn has a powerful melee attack to take out enemies on combat at a close distance, which actually makes close distance a much better alternative, as you don't waste ammo that way. For the player to willingly dodge INTO an enemy was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in any gameplay video, but whatever. That video is still faster than any Legends gameplay I've seen. The aiming is smooth, you can take out several enemies without needing any kind of lock-on, and turning doesn't take the sluggish movement I've seen in Legends videos. If you want fast-paced games in terms of constant player movement, check out Vanquish. It's pretty much being built as a Gears of War where you can jetpack all over the place.

For a use of lock-on in current gaming, check out MGS4, or MGS: Peace Walker. The player can choose whether to aim at enemies with a free aim, or locked on. If you aim freely, you can aim at the enemy's head and do a headshot with a single bullet, as well as taking out their legs to cripple them, or taking out their weapon arm so they can't use it. When you use lock-on, you [tornado fang] up the general aim and you just aim at the center of the enemy, which not only takes alot more time to kill, is prone to failure, and will inevitably sound an alert sooner or later.



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Reply #80 on: July 11, 2010, 05:09:25 AM
The Dual Shock would need hundreds of buttons just to fully recognize every single different imput an analog can do in every single position it can be.
My point.  An analogue joystick is not a pointer, and is not a button.  Get it?

Quote
For a use of lock-on in current gaming, check out MGS4, or MGS: Peace Walker. The player can choose whether to aim at enemies with a free aim, or locked on. If you aim freely, you can aim at the enemy's head and do a headshot with a single bullet, as well as taking out their legs to cripple them, or taking out their weapon arm so they can't use it. When you use lock-on, you [tornado fang] up the general aim and you just aim at the center of the enemy, which not only takes alot more time to kill, is prone to failure, and will inevitably sound an alert sooner or later.
Any game worth its save data will feature some type of look-around, and yes the right stick is an obvious fit for that.  It's a matter of focus.  Which is primary, and which is secondary.

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Reply #81 on: July 11, 2010, 05:30:10 AM
My point.  An analogue joystick is not a pointer, and is not a button.  Get it?
My point was that it had button-like imput.

Quote
Any game worth its save data will feature some type of look-around, and yes the right stick is an obvious fit for that.  It's a matter of focus.  Which is primary, and which is secondary.
Um... have no idea how your previous point goes into this, but... okay. I do maintain that a right stick is the best way to control the camera/aiming in any videogame in which you have a controller. Direct screen aiming without turning, yeah, a Wii pointer will be precise enough. But with the necessary fast-paced approach to gaming that's required from something like this... an analog is the only way to handle it.

I now leave you with some awesome fast-paced and accurate Timesplitters 2 gameplay. Still one of the tightest controls an FPS has ever had.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZiu_1bopWo&feature=related[/youtube]



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #82 on: July 11, 2010, 08:24:09 AM
PB: I disagree with them being comparitive in the soap level. Because honestly, most Anime isn't that long drawn out like comics tend to be with this stuff. Or horribly convoluted with the way they constantly pull something new out of their ass. But...

They have so many soap-opera like stories though.  Especially recently.  They are just more ludicrous and actually lack the ability to decently write endings.  LoL, and comics have to keep pulling something new out of their ass.  It's called innovation & storytelling.  Green Lantern is the greatest example of this currently, and Spider-Man is the worst example of it probably in comic book history.  The only difference between it and anime is just that anime keeps pulling new [parasitic bomb] out of their ass with new animes/characters/etc.  However comic book characters are more iconic and mythological, therefore getting rid of them is out of the question.

Ono adds on some more tweet-teasing...

- http://twitter.com/Yoshi_OnoChin/status/18199679128

*o* Can't wait...

Haha, love the background image!



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Reply #83 on: July 11, 2010, 12:38:51 PM
They have so many soap-opera like stories though.  Especially recently.  They are just more ludicrous and actually lack the ability to decently write endings.  LoL, and comics have to keep pulling something new out of their ass.  It's called innovation & storytelling.  Green Lantern is the greatest example of this currently, and Spider-Man is the worst example of it probably in comic book history.  The only difference between it and anime is just that anime keeps pulling new [parasitic bomb] out of their ass with new animes/characters/etc.  However comic book characters are more iconic and mythological, therefore getting rid of them is out of the question.
Anime tend to be MORE like soaps than comics, even. XD I swear, comics have relied  on the same kind of plot many times, specially during the 90's/00's, where there was a stagnation of actual storylines, and the modern age started to be more about "attitude" and how "xxx-treme" everything was. But it's amazing how recently, they're trying to push a big effort into changing that. Vertigo comics, for example, I don't think you'll find a single one which reads like a soap opera (okay, okay, Fables is quite soap-ish =P) and currently, Batman, for example, reads as if you're watching Lost with ten conspiracy theories at the same time which envelop around every single important storyline he's ever been in, and it's enthralling, because you have to keep unreavelling a puzzle, the whole storyline reads in a progressive sort of way. The Brightest Day event is trying something that has been done before, although in a different way. It's basically another 52, in a bit event kind of manner. A way to make us care about small-time, underused characters in the DCU, that when pushed into the limelight, have a BIG chance to shine through. Superman just went through a reinvention himself. His planet has been brought back, he served as an ambassador, only for they to betray him and end up attacking Earth. His home planet was destroyed again, with SERIOUS changes to the canon (escaped Kryptonians everywhere) and right now, he's going through a rough time, going walkabout around the US, trying to rediscover his home and the reason why he should keep fighting in the first place. Green Lantern, as you previously said, has been attempting to both bring back good elements from the story, while form a huge cosmic storyline, bringing all sorts of new elements, and changing the main canon quite alot (Sinestro is growing up to be quite the partner), Hal and Carol's relationship is FINALLY going somewhere, and everything seems to be in a stable direction. And Marvel, for all of its [tornado fang]-ups, has had its cosmic storylines be WAY more than any soap opera could be, involving Gods and incredible forces, cosmic powers constantly clashing, and amazing things happening. Although comic characters HAVE to stay for the sake of the industry, they keep getting refreshed in new ways. And heck, in the last year, both Batman and Superman were replaced for quite awhile. The big two. If stuff like that can happen, there can be alot of variations as to not make the story tiring.

And as much as I watch recent anime, I find it VERY hard not for them to step in a hole full of the very same stereotypes that doom all anime. Characters have a strict setup of a few personalities which are used everywhere, pretty much keep saying and doing the same things in dialogue, girls have VERY FEW ADIFFERENT PERSONALITIES and pretty much no individuality at all, stories keep borrowing elements from one another without anything special happening to those elements, long-winded stories keep getting worse, while season-sized stories rarely fully entertain someone with an AMAZING storyline. Same with video games. There are very, very, veeeeeery few games I've seen recently with any narrative elements at all that have amazed me. RPGs keep having the same cast all over again on japanese gaming, while western gaming thrives on the space marine industry. And GOOD stories like on Yakuza or Red Dead Redemption are really hard to find. On anime, I see moeblobs everywhere (they're a fad now aparently) and few actual good stories.



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Reply #84 on: July 11, 2010, 12:58:09 PM
comics are soap-like because they never end like some soaps, they just go on and on and on

some anime series are like this too

like pokemon



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Reply #85 on: July 12, 2010, 12:49:08 AM
comics are soap-like because they never end like some soaps, they just go on and on and on

some anime series are like this too

like pokemon

This, because I don't feel like contesting and fighting walls of text anymore. Writing to do.



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Reply #86 on: July 12, 2010, 01:16:22 AM
Just because something doesn't end, doesn't mean it's like a soap.

Star Wars/Star Trek is a soap? Is Metroid a soap? =P They're neverending stories too. Only difference is the rate at which they come out.



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Reply #87 on: July 12, 2010, 01:35:58 AM
Star Wars/Star Trek is a soap?

To be fair, a lot of Star Trek was soap-ish after Berman took over.  Hell, DS9 started off very soap-ish, but then eventually became REALLY [tornado fang]ing good.



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Reply #88 on: July 12, 2010, 01:44:09 AM
I liked DS9 because of Quark...

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything


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Reply #89 on: July 12, 2010, 03:28:29 AM
Question from a TOS/TNG fan who's never watched the other series.

What's so bad about Enterprise? My girlfriend's watching, and she's loving it.



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Reply #90 on: July 12, 2010, 03:35:43 AM
1. Series burnout, because Star Trek had been on the air constantly for about 20 years at that point.
2. Genre saturation; TNG was the only sci-fi show on TV at that point. When Enterprise came out, there was a whole channel for it.
3. Storyline glut; TOS/TNG had piled on so much history into what had happened that Enterprise became a historical. And quite frankly, few people are into seeing a historical, and Star Trek fans are notoriously "wankish" about details. And those who aren't Star Trek fans don't care and watch it.
4. Tech issues; when TOS came out, there was all sorts of future tech, which was cool. Enterprise, taking place 100 years before TOS needed worse tech. However, when Enterprise came out, our real-life tech was advanced.
5. Also, bad casting issues. Namely, Scott Bakula.

OH [parasitic bomb] IM USING LINK AND I ACCIDENTALLY FINAL SMASHED A CUCCO OH GOD HELP
Just enjoy yourself, don't complain about everything


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Reply #91 on: July 12, 2010, 04:32:52 AM
1. Series burnout, because Star Trek had been on the air constantly for about 20 years at that point.
2. Genre saturation; TNG was the only sci-fi show on TV at that point. When Enterprise came out, there was a whole channel for it.
3. Storyline glut; TOS/TNG had piled on so much history into what had happened that Enterprise became a historical. And quite frankly, few people are into seeing a historical, and Star Trek fans are notoriously "wankish" about details. And those who aren't Star Trek fans don't care and watch it.
4. Tech issues; when TOS came out, there was all sorts of future tech, which was cool. Enterprise, taking place 100 years before TOS needed worse tech. However, when Enterprise came out, our real-life tech was advanced.
5. Also, bad casting issues. Namely, Scott Bakula.
Take away the whole rest of Star Trek, the fans that WANT certain somethings from Star Trek, and the canon-obcesseds. And tell me from just a regular ol' person's point of view, what is the problem with Enterprise. Because historical-wise, the plot doesn't seem to have problems. Sure, unlikeable Vulcan, which might've caused alot of fans to capsize, but other than that, I honestly don't know what makes it so, sooooo bad, from the reputation I've heard of it. I've been watching a few, and although I've watched all of TOS, the cartoon and alot of TNG, I seriously don't incredibly yearn for tiny details and stuff like that. So far, the whole thing seems to have a good plot, I like the cast, and it's got potencial.



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Reply #92 on: July 12, 2010, 05:05:37 AM
Well take away all that, and it's a fine show. You asked what was wrong with it, and I gave you the reasons. Albeit, I asked my roommate for that, so it was her view, not mine. I have no problem with Enterprise myself.

Those are the reasons why Enterprise is called BAD though. And the entirety of the bitching originated with the Trekkies.

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Reply #93 on: July 12, 2010, 05:12:09 AM
Ono was going to Vegas to play the slot machines. XD

The back-and-forth made me laugh a lot. >U<

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Reply #94 on: July 12, 2010, 05:52:54 AM
Ono was going to Vegas to play the slot machines. XD

The back-and-forth made me laugh a lot. >U<
I'm thinking that's not all he's gonna play with while he's in Vegas. 8D



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Reply #95 on: July 12, 2010, 06:00:22 AM
Ono: "No matter what kind of ideas you all might have, we have something WAY better to offer. But I can't say more unless I want my boss Inafune hunt me down with a pitch fork."

A summary of his speech after they showed Marvel 3 at EVO. ^^;

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Reply #96 on: July 12, 2010, 06:19:13 AM
Ono: "No matter what kind of ideas you all might have, we have something WAY better to offer. But I can't say more unless I want my boss Inafune hunt me down with a pitch fork."

A summary of his speech after they showed Marvel 3 at EVO. ^^;

Basically, we're right back with "wait til Comic-con~". 8D

Fine by me. I still think that the likes of the "Capcom vs. SNK 3" wishers are going to be the ones that are left cold this time. Ono has even admitted on his twitter that Capcom vs. SNK is not likely going to be a reality for a good while because he's so "busy".



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Reply #97 on: July 12, 2010, 06:23:41 AM
1. Series burnout, because Star Trek had been on the air constantly for about 20 years at that point.
2. Genre saturation; TNG was the only sci-fi show on TV at that point. When Enterprise came out, there was a whole channel for it.
3. Storyline glut; TOS/TNG had piled on so much history into what had happened that Enterprise became a historical. And quite frankly, few people are into seeing a historical, and Star Trek fans are notoriously "wankish" about details. And those who aren't Star Trek fans don't care and watch it.
4. Tech issues; when TOS came out, there was all sorts of future tech, which was cool. Enterprise, taking place 100 years before TOS needed worse tech. However, when Enterprise came out, our real-life tech was advanced.
5. Also, bad casting issues. Namely, Scott Bakula.

1. It's not that the series had burned out. It's simply that people just got done with Voyager, which wasn't good to begin with. Sure, there were some good episodes in the series, but the bad episodes far outweighed the good, from what I saw of it. Enterprise continued on with that philosophy, from what little I watched of it. I watched the first 5 episodes of Enterprise, and I thought it was boring and badly written, not to mention the first episode having to do with time travel, which can be a recipe for disaster.
2. Um, TNG ended way before Enterprise began. Also, it did not have a whole channel for it.
3. The issue was on the fact that the ship was called Enterprise to began with.  Pretty much all historical data specified that Capt. Pike's ship was the first ship to be named Enterprise, especially the TNG episode Relics, in which Scotty asks the computer to show him the bridge of his Enterprise, and the computer tells him that there were 5 ships with that name. If you count the D, C, B, A, and the original, well then that's it. There is a theory that because of the events that took place during the movie Star Trek: First Contact, it altered history and that's why they named the first starship Enterprise. Heh, if you're going to retcon [parasitic bomb], have the decency to tell your fans.
4. Tech wasn't the issue, really. It's just that a good portion of the opening stories weren't very good. If anything, the idea of the first starship's tech was interesting, plus the notion of them inventing shields & phasers could have been appealing. Again, perhaps if they didn't name the ship Enterprise, give the show the awful opening song, and Rick Berman didn't have his hand in it, it could've been better.  Hell, it might have been actually. I only watched the first 5 episodes, along with a 2 parter which tells of the origins of the Mirror Universe, which is actually very well done.
5. Actually, Scott Bakula was pretty good. A good portion of the cast were good, save maybe for T'Boobs, the busty Vulcan chick who somehow always found herself in the decontamination chamber. Overall, I think the problem were the stories. I'll explain further...

You see, when TNG first came out, the first season while interesting, did not have some of the best caliber stories as some of the later seasons of TNG. However, cause this was a brand new Star Trek series, after about 20 years of the original being off the air, fans probably didn't notice it as much. Plus, the new characters were very interesting. When Season 2 came around, the stories and writing started to improve, especially the episode where Q introduced them to the Borg.  It's one of the best Star Trek episodes ever.  Then Season 3 came around with much better effects, even better stories, and a season finale which, for all intents and purposes, is one of the greatest Star Trek & Sci-Fi stories ever told.

So around Season 5 or 6 they came out with DS9, which started off very slowly, probably worse than TNG, in terms of the story department. Berman literally described it, at one point, as a "space soap-opera" which is a horrible tag line to give your newly minted SCIENCE FICTION show. However, TNG for the most part, was still going strong so this could be overlooked.  Then TNG finished and all that was left was DS9, which was still struggling a bit.  It was getting slightly more interesting, but still not that great.  So then Voyager came out.  Voyager started off somewhat interestingly, although I'm not a fan of the first episode at all, mainly cause it's pretty boring.  However, the premise of Voyager was actually pretty good.  Voyager's problem was that the stories weren't very good, and really weren't getting better, while DS9 was starting to produce some of the best Star Trek ever, when they brought in Worf, the threat of the Dominion, and when Sisko transformed into BaldGoatee Sisko. 

Then came the TNG movies, which for the most part, are pretty awful, at least in the context of continuity and story telling.  Generations needs to not exist, First Contact is entertaining, but stupid, Insurrection is a long episode of the show, and not one of the better episodes, and Nemesis is also enjoyable, but has some interesting and pretty big plot holes.  However, since we're still around the Generations-First Contact movie frame, DS9 was the best Star Trek on.  Once that ended, all we were left with was Voyager, which started to improve slightly mind you (and I don't mean because of Seven of Tits either).  It was still boring at too many times, the bad episodes still outweighed the good, and the ending to Voyager went the TNG route and involved Time Travel, except didn't do it as well. Not even close actually.  Of course it might also have to do with the fact that I don't like the idea of the Borg Queen at ALL.

At this point, a lot of fans wanted them to give Star Trek a rest for a bit, or perhaps maybe a TNG-DS9 movie.  Plus, around this time you had much better sci-fi shows on television, like Farscape or maybe even Stargate SG1 (if you liked the show).  So when they gave us Enterprise, the idea was intriguing, but there were some questions, like why was the ship named Enterprise, when Pike's Enterprise was the first? Why go pre-Kirk or even pre-Pike?  But, like a good fan, I watched Enterprise and gave it a shot. After 5 episodes, I was so bored that I just decided to stop.  There was much better sci-fi on TV, and I wasn't enough of a Trekkie to force myself to watch anymore.  Now, it's possible that the show got better.  In fact, some people I've talked to said that the last 2-3 seasons of the show weren't that bad, cept for the ending.  So I really don't know much about Enterprise.  However I don't really see a reason to ever watch it.  I managed to watch the only 2 parter I was curious about, which was the Mirror Universe one, and it was pretty good.  Still not good enough to make me watch the series though. 

Ono: "No matter what kind of ideas you all might have, we have something WAY better to offer. But I can't say more unless I want my boss Inafune hunt me down with a pitch fork."

A summary of his speech after they showed Marvel 3 at EVO. ^^;

A pitchfork? I figured he's use a Mega Buster!  XD



Offline Mirby

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Reply #98 on: July 12, 2010, 06:31:01 AM
PB: I meant that when TNG was on, there was no Sci-Fi channel. When Enterprise came on, Sci-Fi existed. I meant for the genre, not the series.

And those are my roommate's feelings, not mine. As I said, I don't mind Enterprise or any of the shows in the slightest. Then again, I'm not a superfan that's anal about the details. Then again, neither is my roommate. Who also just bitched me out for using what she said even though she said it so I could use it...

Ahem. Regardless, good points all.

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Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #99 on: July 12, 2010, 06:41:57 AM
PB: I meant that when TNG was on, there was no Sci-Fi channel. When Enterprise came on, Sci-Fi existed. I meant for the genre, not the series.

And those are my roommate's feelings, not mine. As I said, I don't mind Enterprise or any of the shows in the slightest. Then again, I'm not a superfan that's anal about the details. Then again, neither is my roommate. Who also just bitched me out for using what she said even though she said it so I could use it...

Ahem. Regardless, good points all.

Ah, that's what you meant.  Because your #1 makes no sense otherwise. Especially because there were other sci-fi shows on during the time of TNG.