Metal Gear Solid: Snake Eater 3D

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Offline Jericho

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Reply #25 on: July 09, 2010, 05:04:30 PM
I honestly hope it goes the way of Betamax. TRUE 3D in gaming should be something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw&feature=player_embedded

In movies, I couldn't care the least. Every movie critic worth a damn has been bashing 3D left and right and I'm of the same opinion.

This is still the best damn thing ever to me. And yes, I agree totally that head tracking & that illusion of depth is a bigger thing for gaming than "COMES OUTTA MAH SCREEN" 3D.



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Reply #26 on: July 09, 2010, 05:07:24 PM
Hmm?  Why?
Because it's stupid.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08FK7WghHSc[/youtube]

The best explanation of what's wrong with 3D.



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Reply #27 on: July 09, 2010, 05:46:41 PM
I can honestly say I don't think I've ever been to a 3D movie, but I don't see a reason to hate it o.o



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Reply #28 on: July 09, 2010, 06:34:52 PM
What do you imagine 3D movies to be? Because they're not simply the image popping out of the screen. It's the image popping out in a 2D way, as if certain parts of the movie were projected in a small post-it right in front of your eyes. And the rest is blurry [parasitic bomb].



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Reply #29 on: July 09, 2010, 06:42:29 PM
This is still the best damn thing ever to me. And yes, I agree totally that head tracking & that illusion of depth is a bigger thing for gaming than "COMES OUTTA MAH SCREEN" 3D.
That's only if you weave around while playing, though.  Sooner or later, you'll stop caring, sit still, and the effect is negligible.  There is no illusion of depth to the image itself, the illusion is created only by how the image responds to your movements.  Further, if you're remaining seated at an appropriate distance from your TV, there's only so much extra sight you gain through such a method; it's not like, say, head-tracking on a computer monitor where the display is two or three feet from your face.  The further the display is from you, the less of an effect you're getting (ie: if you want a wider view out a window, you need to stand close to the window).  Plus it only works with a single person in the room.

Therein lies the problem with 3D televisions.  Every viewer is sitting at a different perspective.  Meaning you MUST either give every viewer their own adjustment to the display (glasses), or limit your number of viewers to one.  I don't see that ever taking off.  The "HEY, WE HAVE A GLASSESLESS 3D TV" marketing might get some respectable cash but it'll never catch any mass-market appeal if it doesn't actually work for more than one individual.  Handhelds, phones, desktops, laptops, they could be cool.  TVs in the living room?  No.

Head-tracking 3D is an interesting concept, though, particularly in how it relates to the 3DS.  Recall, if you will, the 3DS has a player-facing camera, and has already shown head-tracking tech demos in Nintendogs.  So one would think such a 3D display method would be possible on the 3DS, and it would go a long ways into reconciling gyroscopic controls with 3D imagery (an issue which has been brought up on a few gaming websites).  The stereoscopic effect is probably much easier to code for, though, and face recognition/tracking would have to be smooth enough that the image doesn't lag behind you (for all the bitching about the extra drain on resources that is in reality just a 2-player split-screen for your eyes, this would probably consume a lot more).  Plus it depends on how well-lit the room you're playing in is.  Note that the YouTube Wii demo doesn't go into what happens with IR interference or when your head goes off-camera; and if you hated these issues with your Wii pointer, just imagine the entire screen suffering for it.  So there are downsides to that approach as well, but I do wonder if some devs will pursue it for the viewing angle benefits.

The best explanation of what's wrong with 3D.
XD  Awesome.

In a way, he's giving 3D too much credit; you can still turn the smurfs to see their backs.

I see what you, and the critics, are saying with film: 3D visuals will only give a "pop-up book" effect, provided of course that the visuals are still being processed as 2D images + depth.  This applies to all film (we don't have holo-recorders yet; you're always subject to the camera angle of the recording device) and sprite-based games (the NES/SNES 3D remakes demoed at E3).  In an actual, polygonal 3D game, however, where the entire surface is rendered and you can thus freely change the camera angle, it's a bit better.

Still a gimmick, though.  It's Nintendo's next handheld, I'd buy it if it was a brick with an etch-a-sketch embedded in it, so long as I retain the hope that I'll someday see a Yoshi on it.  The 3D is just something for me to show off.

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Reply #30 on: July 09, 2010, 07:13:44 PM
What do you imagine 3D movies to be? Because they're not simply the image popping out of the screen. It's the image popping out in a 2D way, as if certain parts of the movie were projected in a small post-it right in front of your eyes. And the rest is blurry [parasitic bomb].

I've seen 3D things before, jus not movies I think o.o  But it jus doesn't really seem like anything that people should waste energy complaining about  XD



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Reply #31 on: July 09, 2010, 08:06:32 PM
I've seen 3D things before, jus not movies I think o.o  But it jus doesn't really seem like anything that people should waste energy complaining about  XD
People have to complain for things to change. Right now, in a few years, one in each three movies will be on 3D. And it will suck, because people with decent taste don't like the images popping out. It reduces immersion, produces eyestrain, and you end up with a headache, because 3D stereoscopic images aren't meant to be seen for so long. 3D is pure and simple bullshit. Right now, movie studios are seeing 3D as a way to stop movie piracy. But it's a stupid way, honestly. CAM and SCREENER versions are no replacement for a good movie with good quality, watched in theaters. The only pirated leaked versions come from the movie studios themselves.

Pure and simply, 3D is bullshit. Call me when there are stable holograms, REAL THREE-DIMENSIONS. Not just tricks with our depth perception.



Offline Jericho

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Reply #32 on: July 09, 2010, 08:11:11 PM
That's only if you weave around while playing, though.  Sooner or later, you'll stop caring, sit still, and the effect is negligible.  There is no illusion of depth to the image itself, the illusion is created only by how the image responds to your movements.  Further, if you're remaining seated at an appropriate distance from your TV, there's only so much extra sight you gain through such a method; it's not like, say, head-tracking on a computer monitor where the display is two or three feet from your face.  The further the display is from you, the less of an effect you're getting (ie: if you want a wider view out a window, you need to stand close to the window).  Plus it only works with a single person in the room.

Therein lies the problem with 3D televisions.  Every viewer is sitting at a different perspective.  Meaning you MUST either give every viewer their own adjustment to the display (glasses), or limit your number of viewers to one.  I don't see that ever taking off.  The "HEY, WE HAVE A GLASSESLESS 3D TV" marketing might get some respectable cash but it'll never catch any mass-market appeal if it doesn't actually work for more than one individual.  Handhelds, phones, desktops, laptops, they could be cool.  TVs in the living room?  No.

Head-tracking 3D is an interesting concept, though, particularly in how it relates to the 3DS.  Recall, if you will, the 3DS has a player-facing camera, and has already shown head-tracking tech demos in Nintendogs.  So one would think such a 3D display method would be possible on the 3DS, and it would go a long ways into reconciling gyroscopic controls with 3D imagery (an issue which has been brought up on a few gaming websites).  The stereoscopic effect is probably much easier to code for, though, and face recognition/tracking would have to be smooth enough that the image doesn't lag behind you (for all the bitching about the extra drain on resources that is in reality just a 2-player split-screen for your eyes, this would probably consume a lot more).  Plus it depends on how well-lit the room you're playing in is.  Note that the YouTube Wii demo doesn't go into what happens with IR interference or when your head goes off-camera; and if you hated these issues with your Wii pointer, just imagine the entire screen suffering for it.  So there are downsides to that approach as well, but I do wonder if some devs will pursue it for the viewing angle benefits.

[tornado fang]ing awesome post. I'm half compelled to make an off topic thread on 3D and what its future holds thanks to this post.



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Reply #33 on: July 09, 2010, 08:18:34 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJHX5ip68p4[/youtube]

Forgot this. How you can enjoy a 3D movie, in 2D.



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Reply #34 on: July 10, 2010, 02:44:39 AM
Now even the film industry is ripping off Nintendo.  They stole the "ability to turn 3D off" idea. 8)

Posted on: July 09, 2010, 08:16:57 PM
Oh, and I missed this:

Right now, movie studios are seeing 3D as a way to stop movie piracy. But it's a stupid way, honestly.
You know, even if I like 3D (I haven't watched it for more than a few minutes at a time, so I can't speak on the eye-strain issue yet), this is very incredibly true.  Honestly, how many techno-junkies who are too cheap to pay for their own damn movies are going to be enticed by having to pay for a set of glasses on top of the movie?

If people want to stop piracy, they need to think about why people pirate.  It's not always because they want to be crooks, often it's because they are taking matters into their own hands due to not wanting to put up with corporate bullshit.  Every time I see the "Operation Not Permitted By Disc" message on my DVD player, I wonder how long I'll be able to keep myself from researching how to hack a DVD player.

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Reply #35 on: July 10, 2010, 03:07:54 AM
Oh, and I missed this:
You know, even if I like 3D (I haven't watched it for more than a few minutes at a time, so I can't speak on the eye-strain issue yet), this is very incredibly true.  Honestly, how many techno-junkies who are too cheap to pay for their own damn movies are going to be enticed by having to pay for a set of glasses on top of the movie?

If people want to stop piracy, they need to think about why people pirate.  It's not always because they want to be crooks, often it's because they are taking matters into their own hands due to not wanting to put up with corporate bullshit.  Every time I see the "Operation Not Permitted By Disc" message on my DVD player, I wonder how long I'll be able to keep myself from researching how to hack a DVD player.
Not just that. It's amazing how the industries always end up taking it out on consumers themselves. Either with incredible stupid DRM, or with bullshit like having to watch that same damn "YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR" unskippable commercial over and over again, whenever we insert our brand new DVD into the player. That [parasitic bomb] was on my sister's Dora the Explorer DVD. She started crying when the damn thing started. And DVDs are more and more expensive everytime.

I just don't get it... people are never gonna enjoy a movie if it's on screener/cam quality. They just need to worry about leaks, which are easily traceable. So what is the damn problem? Do they really need to put a movie on 3D so we both lose? It's stupid. It's honestly stupid, since movie theater tickets are already expensive, and it seriously makes me wish there was a way I could download the damn thing, or just wait for the movie to come out in a proper format instead of exposing my eyes to that [parasitic bomb].



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #36 on: July 10, 2010, 07:23:31 AM
What people fail to realize is that there's a difference between movies like Avatar in 3D and everything else.  Avatar was specifically filmed to look the way it did, and it was meant to be seen on an true IMAX screen, and it looked incredible.  However, with other movies, it just doesn't look that good and it's just a gimmick to make people shell out $4-$5 extra bucks for the 3D experience.



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Reply #37 on: July 10, 2010, 08:59:12 AM
What people fail to realize is that there's a difference between movies like Avatar in 3D and everything else.  Avatar was specifically filmed to look the way it did, and it was meant to be seen on an true IMAX screen, and it looked incredible.  However, with other movies, it just doesn't look that good and it's just a gimmick to make people shell out $4-$5 extra bucks for the 3D experience.
Honestly, I thought it still looked like a damn pop-up book, and found the 2D version much more enjoyable.



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Reply #38 on: July 10, 2010, 09:32:16 AM
Honestly, I thought it still looked like a damn pop-up book, and found the 2D version much more enjoyable.

Did you see it in IMAX?



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Reply #39 on: July 10, 2010, 11:07:49 AM
Did you see it in IMAX?
No IMAX available over here. But my problem is with the stereoscopic 3D itself. They won't manage to produce an actual 3D image, simply one that pops up in 2D on a different plane.



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Reply #40 on: July 11, 2010, 12:27:36 AM
No IMAX available over here. But my problem is with the stereoscopic 3D itself. They won't manage to produce an actual 3D image, simply one that pops up in 2D on a different plane.

Fair enough. What I will say is that on the IMAX screen, the true IMAX screen and not the BS they peddle off as IMAX in some theaters, Avatar really did look incredible.



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Reply #41 on: July 11, 2010, 01:29:27 AM
Fair enough. What I will say is that on the IMAX screen, the true IMAX screen and not the BS they peddle off as IMAX in some theaters, Avatar really did look incredible.
I do agree that the movie itself, on 2D, looked absolutely amazing, although the story was bullshit. But the 3D effects really were derivative.



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Reply #42 on: July 11, 2010, 01:58:07 AM
I do agree that the movie itself, on 2D, looked absolutely amazing, although the story was bullshit. But the 3D effects really were derivative.

On IMAX, the effects were really incredible.

Which is also the greatest flaw of the movie, even more than it's overdone story.  It will never look that good again.



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Reply #43 on: July 11, 2010, 02:01:54 AM
On IMAX, the effects were really incredible.

Which is also the greatest flaw of the movie, even more than it's overdone story.  It will never look that good again.
How did they look? Because I think it's impossible to not make stereoscopic 3D NOT look like 2D coming out of the screen, just coming closer to our faces. Stereoscopic 3D is still not 3D, it's just a small trick to our eyes.



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Reply #44 on: July 11, 2010, 02:13:13 AM
How did they look? Because I think it's impossible to not make stereoscopic 3D NOT look like 2D coming out of the screen, just coming closer to our faces. Stereoscopic 3D is still not 3D, it's just a small trick to our eyes.

Honestly, it damn near looked like holograms were on the screen at times.



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Reply #45 on: July 11, 2010, 02:21:26 AM
Honestly, it damn near looked like holograms were on the screen at times.
I actually wish I could see that. No IMAX in my area, though.



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Reply #46 on: July 11, 2010, 02:48:54 AM
I actually wish I could see that. No IMAX in my area, though.

Like I said, therein lies the problem. Cameron filmed it specifically for that format, so anything less will automatically not look as good. I mean, I don't even want it on Blu Ray.



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Reply #47 on: July 11, 2010, 04:19:39 AM
In all fairness, 2D happens to look really freaking amazing in IMAX as well.  But I haven't seen a 3D IMAX film.

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Reply #48 on: July 11, 2010, 08:14:37 AM
In all fairness, 2D happens to look really freaking amazing in IMAX as well.  But I haven't seen a 3D IMAX film.

Oh, it certainly does. I'm sure going to enjoy watching Inception on the IMAX screen. #2 most anticipated movie of the year.



Offline Phi

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Reply #49 on: September 29, 2010, 10:48:47 PM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whimpfcqpTg&feature=channel[/youtube]
« Last Edit: October 01, 2010, 01:48:39 AM by Superdee »