Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)

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Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #575 on: August 07, 2010, 05:17:53 AM
The only problem I had with Tails' stages in SA1 was that you were constantly being chased.  It wasn't a bad thing, but in a sense you couldn't explore because you were trying to outrun something.  I actually like SA1's stage design FAR more than SA2's simply because of the fact that the stages were a lot more open and different characters got to see different sides of it.  Sonic had one version of Emerald Coast involving a whale chase and a lot of other stuff, E-102 had a shortened version of Sonic's, and Big got to see a whole new segment of it altogether.  It's this same mechanic that made S3&K interesting to play (with Knuckles), as you get to see the story from multiple sides, not just in storyline, but aesthetically as well.
I actually didn't like it as much. Made certain characters, like Big, be a bit confusing to play on certain levels. And doing something like that with nowadays' Sonic Team would be abysmal, as they're the kings of making levels unsuitable for characters' gameplays. SA2 made it easier. Levels were designed exclusively for the characters, and each gameplay worked in its own way. It was better. Made each gameplay work well too, because I think we can all agree that Amy's and Big's gameplay from SA1 wasn't really very good.

Also, S&K's... story? Hahahahahahaha. Oh yes, you got to see maybe 30 seconds altogether of characters making faces and laughing to express their good-ness or evil-ness in the current situation.

My only gripe with Tails in SA1 was that the levels were too short.  Due to the nature of racing the game can't load multi-part stages the way it does with Sonic.  The fact that you're racing isn't much of a letdown since the AI is fairly laid back (unlike, say, Sonic Rivals 2, which is abysmal).
Well, it's not that it's bad, it's just not Tails.  I don't buy the good-mirror-of-Eggman thing.  I know Tails is a handy mechanic, but I don't see him as piloting robots for his adventures.  He's supposed to be more hands-on.  For Eggman, it's awesome.
Each character needed its own "rival", in a way. Tails just worked well. It's stupid to shoehorn how each person sees this or that character, since Knuckles had linear levels in the first few games, and then his stuff became hunting-based. I don't see anyone complaining about that. People just don't like to see Tails in a robot suit. I did.

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Making a good Sonic game and making repeated good Sonic games are two different things.  I'd rather Tails not miss his chance.
Every single time Sonic Team has tried to shove more than one gameplay in a game this generation, they failed. Let's let them focus on Sonic alone before they do something else. Baby steps.

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That, right there, is the trap that Sonic Team keeps falling into.  It's where much of the current resentment towards Sonic's supporting cast comes from.  It detracts from the focus of the title and is especially dangerous in Sonic titles, as slower characters get larger focus for the sake of easing level design.  It's not a bad idea, but it belongs in a spinoff game, not a Sonic game.  Talk Sega into a new-age Tails Adventure, then we can talk about free flight and new level designs.

I just don't agree with this idea that the road to success is a solo adventure.  It's boring.  Once upon a time, different characters could play in the same stages with abilities that were unique without completely breaking the basic style of the gameplay.  It's one of the things I liked about Black Knight.  Mario's done it to great success as well (SM64DS).  It adds a layer of personal preference to the game and enhances replay value.
This is the idea that Sonic Heroes went through. Playing through the same story with characters that are exactly the same in gameplay except for a few details. We all know how that went, right?

Problem with Sonic fans? Instead of caring about having an actual QUALITY GAME, they gripe about the most meaningless [parasitic bomb]. Like how this or that character should have relevance, or how they should do this or that with the voice actors, or with the story, or with the (shudder) "canon". I say bullshit. Until Sonic Team nails a game that's about SONIC, with SONIC gameplay, they shouldn't be working on anything else. We've had to babysit them and watch their slow baby steps into good gaming territory again for these past ten years. With each game, they either fall into the shitpit, or get slowly closer and closer to what a good game should be. If they manage to nail a decent Sonic game, I'll be very happy. And when they manage to nail a good game, with good gameplay and good mechanics, THEN they should worry about the bells and whistles. But right now, Sonic is meaningless. They should worry about making a GOOD GAME, before worrying about making a GOOD SONIC GAME.



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Reply #576 on: August 07, 2010, 05:58:21 AM
Every single time Sonic Team has tried to shove more than one gameplay in a game this generation, they failed.
If you didn't gather from the remainder of my post, I'm not arguing with that one.  I don't believe that's the approach that Sonic Team should be taking with the supporting cast.

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This is the idea that Sonic Heroes went through. Playing through the same story with characters that are exactly the same in gameplay except for a few details. We all know how that went, right?
You bring up an interesting point, but a bit over-simplified.  Heroes had several problems.  One, among many, is that it went the opposite way: There was virtually no difference ability-wise between the teams.  Nearly all differences that did exist were obvious substitutes for stage gimmick compatibility, with no real gameplay relevance (shooting downwards vs. belly-flopping; Amy firing tornados out of her hammer, WTF?).  It's two opposite extremes.  There is a happy middle ground, and it's something that outside of Black Knight, Sega has not hit in the last decade.

Three of the four teams are effectively your difficulty setting.   Lousy thing to do, as you inevitably have gameplay preferences clashing with aesthetic preferences.  Such options should be separate of character select.

Further, one could argue that the multi-gameplay-mold character approach was taken in Heroes, merely with the ability to switch mid-stage.  It's the same core problem as with separate level designs such as the Werehog; the Speed character is the only one that handles the way you actually want to.  The only difference is that it's segments of the stage rather than the entire stage designed around mandatory character abilities, which makes the whole thing slightly more tolerable, but still very tedious, forced, and uninteresting.  Yoshi's Island DS suffers similar issues with its baby-swapping.

And finally, the critical flaw of Heroes was in how it approached the impact the teams had on replay.  Rather than giving you a reason to WANT to replay, they made them a reason you HAVE to replay.  Two different things.  Nobody ever cleared S3&K as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles because it was mandatory to unlock an extra scenario.  They did it because the characters were worth trying out on your own terms.  They don't unlock any extra levels/stories, and they SHOULDN'T.  Again, Black Knight nailed it in that respect.  The Knights of the Round Table all had unique moves, all fit within the basic gameplay requirements, and all were selectable as a matter of preference and never as a matter of forced unlock methods.  That's how you do it.  Character choice works when the choice is up to the player, not to what stage you're in.

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But right now, Sonic is meaningless. They should worry about making a GOOD GAME, before worrying about making a GOOD SONIC GAME.
Done over two years ago by Sonic and the Secret Rings.  Good game, Sonic-solo game, traditional mechanics be damned, nobody cared.  Why do they need to take Sonic solo again, much less in two different titles at once? (three if Blaze is not in the "Rush 3" Colors on DS)

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Offline Flame

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Reply #577 on: August 07, 2010, 07:09:45 AM
Not to mention not only did you need to beat all 4 stories, but get all the DAMN fourth chaos emeralds too.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Rin

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Reply #578 on: August 07, 2010, 08:18:32 AM
Not to mention not only did you need to beat all 4 stories, but get all the DAMN fourth chaos emeralds too.
You do, of course, realize... that what you just said doesn't make much sense. Especially the part after "but get all".

This game looks interesting enough.
Let's just wait till it's released, so we can [sonic slicer] about how bad it is then... or sparkle in glee about how good it is. Whatever floats your boat.

As for that talk about Heroes.
Wouldn't it be simpler to just say that SH is just a boring unplayable mess of constant annoying changing of characters, and where the first boss can go down in barely a minute if you're "good" enough? I mean, I know it's the first boss but Jesus.



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Reply #579 on: August 07, 2010, 08:24:29 AM
Just think it's something like Daft Punk. Incredibly different, seeing as this band is kinda more bullshit punk, but this song in itself seems quite nice.

Haha, but if it was like Daft Punk, then I'd have NO problem with it!  8D (CANNOT WAIT FOR TRON LEGACY SOUNDTRACK*



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Offline Flame

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Reply #580 on: August 07, 2010, 09:19:41 AM
You do, of course, realize... that what you just said doesn't make much sense. Especially the part after "but get all".
I was making an apparently unfunny ShTHH quip. You dont just need all 4 stories beat, but ALL the chaos emeralds. which I personally found to be a pain.

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As for that talk about Heroes.
Wouldn't it be simpler to just say that SH is just a boring unplayable mess of constant annoying changing of characters, and where the first boss can go down in barely a minute if you're "good" enough? I mean, I know it's the first boss but Jesus.
No, because it wasnt THAT bad. its main problem is repetition with the 4 teams. Otherwise, while the team gimmick worked oddly at times, it was still pretty decent, as far as games that came AFTER it are concerned. (ShTHH and Sonic 06 mainly, both of which have FAR more issues to qualify as a "mess" )

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #581 on: August 07, 2010, 12:24:07 PM
If you didn't gather from the remainder of my post, I'm not arguing with that one.  I don't believe that's the approach that Sonic Team should be taking with the supporting cast.
You bring up an interesting point, but a bit over-simplified.  Heroes had several problems.  One, among many, is that it went the opposite way: There was virtually no difference ability-wise between the teams.  Nearly all differences that did exist were obvious substitutes for stage gimmick compatibility, with no real gameplay relevance (shooting downwards vs. belly-flopping; Amy firing tornados out of her hammer, WTF?).  It's two opposite extremes.  There is a happy middle ground, and it's something that outside of Black Knight, Sega has not hit in the last decade.

Three of the four teams are effectively your difficulty setting.   Lousy thing to do, as you inevitably have gameplay preferences clashing with aesthetic preferences.  Such options should be separate of character select.

Further, one could argue that the multi-gameplay-mold character approach was taken in Heroes, merely with the ability to switch mid-stage.  It's the same core problem as with separate level designs such as the Werehog; the Speed character is the only one that handles the way you actually want to.  The only difference is that it's segments of the stage rather than the entire stage designed around mandatory character abilities, which makes the whole thing slightly more tolerable, but still very tedious, forced, and uninteresting.  Yoshi's Island DS suffers similar issues with its baby-swapping.

And finally, the critical flaw of Heroes was in how it approached the impact the teams had on replay.  Rather than giving you a reason to WANT to replay, they made them a reason you HAVE to replay.  Two different things.  Nobody ever cleared S3&K as Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles because it was mandatory to unlock an extra scenario.  They did it because the characters were worth trying out on your own terms.  They don't unlock any extra levels/stories, and they SHOULDN'T.  Again, Black Knight nailed it in that respect.  The Knights of the Round Table all had unique moves, all fit within the basic gameplay requirements, and all were selectable as a matter of preference and never as a matter of forced unlock methods.  That's how you do it.  Character choice works when the choice is up to the player, not to what stage you're in.
Done over two years ago by Sonic and the Secret Rings.  Good game, Sonic-solo game, traditional mechanics be damned, nobody cared.  Why do they need to take Sonic solo again, much less in two different titles at once? (three if Blaze is not in the "Rush 3" Colors on DS)
I'm not saying the multi-character approach is bad. I AM saying, however, that Sega shouldn't be experimenting with several different characters for the same areas in their own games. It's hard enough for them to nail a single stage's design into a single character's gameplay already. In their current state, if they tried to shove in more characters, it would be a complete mess. And that when they tried it with Heroes, they ultimately failed, even though it's considered one of the most "decent" games (which it wasn't, as it was merely average, with quite alot of problems). Let Sega do what they're doing RIGHT before they do what you like.

And Secret Rings wasn't GOOD. It was average. It also had its fair share of problems, and as it was released shortly after Sonic 06, it didn't redeem Sonic in anyone's mind. Right now, Sega have finally settled with a single gameplay for Sonic games. Let's let them keep it and make it better from game to game, and when they finally have critical appraisal and people start seeing Sonic as a good game character again,THEN you can have your playable Tails skin with slightly different physics and flying move.



Offline STM

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Reply #582 on: August 07, 2010, 05:35:46 PM
I like how Tails played in SA1. I didn't like that he only raced people. Offensively, he was at his best with his breakdancing Tails attack. It was infinitely better than the retarded ring bomb he got later. Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be smacked.



Offline Rin

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Reply #583 on: August 07, 2010, 05:41:21 PM
I like how Tails played in SA1. I didn't like that he only raced people. Offensively, he was at his best with his breakdancing Tails attack. It was infinitely better than the retarded ring bomb he got later. Whoever thought that was a good idea needs to be smacked.
OH, crap you too?
I loved playing as Tails and just spin around all the time.
[parasitic bomb] was fun.



Offline Flame

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Reply #584 on: August 07, 2010, 06:33:12 PM
What if they did like in the old games and added the extra characters, (lets just say Tails for ex.) with basically the same playstyle as Sonic, but very minor differences? Such as Tails can spindash and all that [parasitic bomb], (I mean [tornado fang], wasnt TAILS the one who taught Sonic how to do that? I always thought that) but can also fly for short periods of time, like in 2 and 3/Kn

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #585 on: August 07, 2010, 09:35:24 PM
What if they did like in the old games and added the extra characters, (lets just say Tails for ex.) with basically the same playstyle as Sonic, but very minor differences? Such as Tails can spindash and all that [parasitic bomb], (I mean [tornado fang], wasnt TAILS the one who taught Sonic how to do that? I always thought that) but can also fly for short periods of time, like in 2 and 3/Kn
3D Sonic can't be done without homing attack, and giving Tails crap like a homing attack and a dash mechanic would be ludicrous. In SA1, he was a character with individuality, although the flying mechanic was too loose for my taste. I say keep him that way. Also, lawl, instruction manual stories that differ from area to area.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #586 on: August 09, 2010, 06:50:34 PM
I was making an apparently unfunny ShTHH quip.
Well, I thought it was funny.  Of course, I haven't yet found a "that DAMN fourth Chaos Emerald" quote that I didn't think was funny.

And that when they tried it with Heroes, they ultimately failed, even though it's considered one of the most "decent" games
Unless you're referring to journalistic reviews, I have no idea what in the hell you're talking about.  Heroes got some very undue praise over at IGN, but in terms of the gaming public, I haven't known it to be well-received.  I personally regard it as among the worst of the new-age titles and even I wound up defending its redeeming points a few times.

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And Secret Rings wasn't GOOD. It was average.
Give it whatever rating you want; I didn't find it to be flawless either.  But you'd be hard pressed to explain how it does not kick the ever-loving crap out of everything that came before it and after SA2.

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Let's let them keep it and make it better from game to game, and when they finally have critical appraisal and people start seeing Sonic as a good game character again,
Sonic may have become a bit controversial but he has never lost his marketing appeal.  The name is still profitable, enough so that they threw it into All-Stars Racing for the hell of it.  As for "critical appraisal", I quite frankly believe that to be a lost cause.  It has been ever since the Dreamcast died.  When Sonic lost his console mascot status, the bandwagon already began, long before Heroes ever reared its ugly head.  Go out and compared review scores of SA2 versus SA2B sometime; it's atrocious.  I almost don't blame Sega for not really trying for the remainder of the console generation (I said "almost").  The journalistic community is not to be trusted with Sonic, period.

Posted on: August 09, 2010, 12:40:52 PM
3D Sonic can't be done without homing attack, and giving Tails crap like a homing attack and a dash mechanic would be ludicrous.
I dunno, they gave Blaze a homing attack...

I wouldn't say that 3D Sonic "can't be done" without it, though.  Attacking enemies as Tails and Knuckles is plenty do-able in SA1.  The Homing Attack simply makes it more streamlined.  Sacraficing it in exchange for some loose flying (which should solve any and all issues regarding the use of the Homing Attack to navigate stages) is pretty well-balanced, I think.

The spin-dash is a bit trickier.  Most 3D Sonic games make heavy use of dash-plates since falling off of a loop in 3D would likely mean death, so it's not really missed there.  In 2D, where the player is responsible for their own momentum through the stunts, it's a lot more handy.  But I think that in 3D your tail-whip attack would suffice.  Especially with that rhythm-badge upgrade granting some flexibility.

Yeah, overall, I think Tails' controls in SA1 pretty much have it down.  He just needs bigger levels.

Oh, and speaking of spin-dashing in 3D, we could use more spin-dash-breakable walls...

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Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #587 on: August 09, 2010, 07:48:11 PM
lastpostbeingrepliedto

- About Heroes:
Heroes was considered to be pure [parasitic bomb] back when it came out. Years later, after the fuckuppery of Shadow and 06, everyone now remembers Heroes as a halfway decent game. Me? I think it's where [parasitic bomb] started to get bad, but at least the gameplay matched the levels, and although the enemy life bars and bosses was completely moronic, and its gameplay was far inferior to the previous titles, it was still a solid game in some areas. But yes, look at it from a general nowadays gaming point of view, and it's [parasitic bomb]. Look at it from a Sonic point of view, and you're giving rotten bread to the hungry. Sure it's rotten, but it beats starving.

- Secret Rings:
Although it's better than Shadow and 06, that's not saying much. reviewers didn't treat it very well (Heroes averaged 64% and SR about 69%), and most people acuse the motion controls to respond badly. It really depends on what your point of view is and the type of gaming communities you're around, but I generally think of it as an average game. Better than Shadow, 06, Black Knight and Unleashed, yeah. But still not saying much. Running into everything and trying to make some sense of the level design gets kinda bad in alot of areas there.

- Not marketing appeal.
Sonic's still as whoreable as ever. I said CRITICAL appeal. Go to pretty much any gaming site, or read any gaming magazine, you'll find every single article written about Sonic has either disdain or a certain bit of hope for the future. No treating games neutrally or excitingly, it's pretty much all "will this FINALLY be good?" This reputation is what I'm talking about. Regular gamers don't touch Sonic [parasitic bomb] because it's been bad for years. And to be honest, I don't blame the journalistic community for treating Sonic like they did. It's not a trend of giving bad scores, SA2 had already aged badly when SA2:B came out. The game looked like crap compared to the new offerings on the Gamecube, and although it was still a solid game, now with the new consoles and games giving it the proper competition, it wouldn't have been fair to hype it up as much as it had been. Shaking off the current Sonic reputation is tougher than Spyro or Crash shaking off theirs. There would need to be a complete rejuvenation of the franchise instead of these baby steps. Let's just hope that Sonic 4 is what it needs.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #588 on: August 09, 2010, 09:47:20 PM
Better than...Black Knight
You know I don't buy that.  Black Knight corrected many of Secret Rings' control flaws, most notably backwards movement and charge-jumps.  It's noticeably easier to actually SEE in front of you, as well.  Over-reliance on track memorization was one of Secret Rings' weaker points.

While it's true that Black Knight doesn't have nearly as imaginative bosses as Secret Rings, that's a relatively minor concern.  Black Knight scored poorly for one reason: Because reviewers have to play every shovel-ware piece of [parasitic bomb] to ever be developed for a console, and therefore any motion control without direction recognition is evil and must be buried.  Am I the only one who remembers the console launch when this was treated as what it actually was: a minor inconvenience, rather than a game-breaking tragedy?  And given that you're working with the premise of Sonic with a sword in the first place, who here honestly thinks that Motion Plus dueling is AT ALL more fitting than plowing through a row of enemies with a buzz-saw attack?  Black Knight is by no means revolutionary, but that doesn't make it bad, doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  Frankly, there's a lot from the game that Sega needs to remember, especially when it comes to handling player selection.  Control, level design, and skill growth were all superior to Secret Rings, as well.

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Sonic's still as whoreable as ever. I said CRITICAL appeal.
Critical appeal tells us that enhanced ports are somehow only half as enjoyable as the originals, that Heroes is better than the Adventures, that Black Knight is worse than the shovelware "my 3-year-old's first cartoon shop" crap currently out on the DSi's download service, and that the best Wii game of 2008 was a one-trick PC physics puzzle port.

I don't give two shits about critical appeal.  And I think that the general gaming populace over-estimates its importance.  If you took notice of the journalism community's response to New Super Mario Bros. Wii, you know what I'm talking about.

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SA2 had already aged badly when SA2:B came out. The game looked like crap compared to the new offerings on the Gamecube
One hell of an irony that in the wake of this, the "new" Sonic games to follow for that generation looked considerably worse.

Still, graphics alone don't justify all the flak thrown at SA2B.  The gameplay was outstanding, and the overall experience is every bit the equal of many native GCN titles.

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Reply #589 on: August 09, 2010, 10:52:36 PM
I don't understand the hate of SADX, I mean, sure the difference between the characters models and the NPC models was glaring. But it was still, IMO, more enjoyable than the original. Mainly, Skippable Cutscenes and the addition of Mission-Mode and the GG collection.

Anyway, Looking foward to the game. If its better than Wii Unleashed I'll be a happy camper.



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Reply #590 on: August 09, 2010, 10:56:11 PM
You know I don't buy that.  Black Knight corrected many of Secret Rings' control flaws, most notably backwards movement and charge-jumps.  It's noticeably easier to actually SEE in front of you, as well.  Over-reliance on track memorization was one of Secret Rings' weaker points.

While it's true that Black Knight doesn't have nearly as imaginative bosses as Secret Rings, that's a relatively minor concern.  Black Knight scored poorly for one reason: Because reviewers have to play every shovel-ware piece of [parasitic bomb] to ever be developed for a console, and therefore any motion control without direction recognition is evil and must be buried.  Am I the only one who remembers the console launch when this was treated as what it actually was: a minor inconvenience, rather than a game-breaking tragedy?  And given that you're working with the premise of Sonic with a sword in the first place, who here honestly thinks that Motion Plus dueling is AT ALL more fitting than plowing through a row of enemies with a buzz-saw attack?  Black Knight is by no means revolutionary, but that doesn't make it bad, doesn't mean that it doesn't work.  Frankly, there's a lot from the game that Sega needs to remember, especially when it comes to handling player selection.  Control, level design, and skill growth were all superior to Secret Rings, as well.
Critical appeal tells us that enhanced ports are somehow only half as enjoyable as the originals, that Heroes is better than the Adventures, that Black Knight is worse than the shovelware "my 3-year-old's first cartoon shop" crap currently out on the DSi's download service, and that the best Wii game of 2008 was a one-trick PC physics puzzle port.

I don't give two shits about critical appeal.  And I think that the general gaming populace over-estimates its importance.  If you took notice of the journalism community's response to New Super Mario Bros. Wii, you know what I'm talking about.
One hell of an irony that in the wake of this, the "new" Sonic games to follow for that generation looked considerably worse.

Still, graphics alone don't justify all the flak thrown at SA2B.  The gameplay was outstanding, and the overall experience is every bit the equal of many native GCN titles.
...singling out small things I said out of all of them instead of replying to my old post? Oh, you. 8D

Let's see what Black Knight had worse than Secret Rings.
- Worse level design, which either put you on a very straight path with a bunch of enemies piled up for you to waggle through, or gave you a few random obstacles without any sort of order.
- Sword attacks on a game where you're always running forward at big speeds = NO
- NPCs to talk to and trade rings with... on levels equivalent to a race track? This is a pretty big what the [tornado fang].
- Worse bosses.
- Aside from having an analog stick to use instead of a vague steering mechanic, the gameplay's worse. Sword attacks are damn stupid to use, either flailing wildly or getting a few QTEs in is all there is to it.
- No big cool unlockable and equippable moveset like in Secret Rings, which pretty much made the amount of quality Secret Rings had.
- Although the graphics look fine, the levels aren't really very attractive, whereas Secret Rings actually had quite a few colors, which was unexpected given the Arabian Nights background.
- Much shorter and less fun game.

Aren't alot of these... you know... main defining points of a game's quality? That brings quite alot into question. Aside from the "moar characters" thing you jizzed all over about, I don't see alot of improvements.


And dispite a few critic mishaps, I do find it VERY hard to disagree with any of the recent criticisms by the press to pretty much all of the Sonic games in the last 7 years or so. The scoring mechanic may be a bit iffy, but the reviews are quite on the spot. But from what you're saying... who is right anyway? Just you and your opinion? I think I'd like to give quite a bit of importance to the major public around. And what was wrong with New Super Mario Bros Wii? It was pretty much another Mario game, same as ever, with included co-op. It's what everybody wanted Nintendo to give them, so they did. It's not by any means outstanding, but it pretty much works. You may not give a [parasitic bomb] about critical appeal, but it's the lifeblood of games. It's what makes them appear good or bad to the general gaming populace. I know sales are the ultimate way games get made, but if even Sonic Team are aware that they've been making absolute [parasitic bomb] and don't tend to deny it in interviews (they even accepted the [tornado fang]ing Sonic Cycle in the last interview), who am I to disagree?

And blame Sega and Sonic Team for all of the new Sonic games after SA2 looking like absolute crap. Heck, I'm replaying Shadow as I type this. It looks like [parasitic bomb], plays like [parasitic bomb], and it's even worse than I remembered it to be. That doesn't mean SA2 didn't have quite a bit of standards to follow through. As good as the game was, it was still deeply flawed in many ways. Sure the rating system sucks, but the points are still made in those reviews.


Back to my original point, the way I was saying Sonic doesn't work in 3D without a homing attack. He doesn't. At least not with his basic set of moves. Jumping towards an enemy normally would require quite alot of cumbersome aiming. Heck, play Sonic Robo Blast 2. It's a pretty cool FPS mod, but ultimately, its gameplay is flawed. Then add the Sonic Adventure mod for it, which enables a homing attack, and look at the game suddenly becoming playable. Sonic just can't work without the homing attack, and it's a mechanic that fits him, so why remove it? As long as they manage to make good level designs in which it fits in, I have no objections. The homing attack is something that actually works in a game where the main mechanic is running forward. As opposed to a [tornado fang]ing sword, for example.



Offline RetroRespecter

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Reply #591 on: August 10, 2010, 04:22:50 AM
Are you guys sure that Sonic Colors won't include a homing attack?

If so, then it may be a drag. I know that the homing attack is overused, but you don't remove something that works.



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Reply #592 on: August 10, 2010, 04:34:32 AM
Are you guys sure that Sonic Colors won't include a homing attack?

If so, then it may be a drag. I know that the homing attack is overused, but you don't remove something that works.

Yes, it does include homing attack. It was in the trailer.



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #593 on: August 10, 2010, 05:02:55 AM
Are you guys sure that Sonic Colors won't include a homing attack?

If so, then it may be a drag. I know that the homing attack is overused, but you don't remove something that works.
...read the actual topic before you make a post, would you?



Offline Flame

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Reply #594 on: August 10, 2010, 06:11:17 AM
Are you guys sure that Sonic Colors won't include a homing attack?

If so, then it may be a drag. I know that the homing attack is overused, but you don't remove something that works.
Nobody said anything about Colors having no Homing attack...

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Police Girl

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Reply #595 on: August 10, 2010, 08:31:14 AM
Are you guys sure that Sonic Colors won't include a homing attack?

If so, then it may be a drag. I know that the homing attack is overused, but you don't remove something that works.

Your post hurts my eyes.

Also, being built off the Unleashed Engine (DS being built off the Rush engine) It WILL have a homing attack, Sonic Team isn't smart enough to change things in an already established engine UNLESS its adding things.



Offline Flame

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Reply #596 on: August 10, 2010, 03:13:17 PM
It has nothing to do with smarts. Hell, it would actually be NOT smart to remove it. Homing attack is a staple sonic move since Adventure, and in 3D sonics has just about replaced the Spindash some.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #597 on: August 10, 2010, 04:37:20 PM
The homing attack is actually a little bit of genius from the Sega guys. Its inclusion in SA1 as a standard move was the result of the question "how do we take complete control of a fast, loose canon, who is supposed to run at the speed of sound and aim at small robots in his path?" "We give him a logical, easy to use homing mechanism".

Funnily enough, the Mario franchise took awhile to find the absolute perfect way to get Mario to attack in a 3D form with the spin from Galaxy. (yes, the punching and water spraying were also effective, but we're talking about a singular move which grants us the ability to attack enemies logically and with ease as we traverse through levels. And this is definetly it)



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Reply #598 on: August 10, 2010, 06:52:44 PM
Its a pity that the Spindash never works as well in a 3D environment. And in games that really shouldnt have it, they give a watered down or broken version. (Im lookin' at YOU ShTHH!) although colors seems to have that base covered with that thing where Sonic bounces off of egg pawns like a cyan glowing pinball.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #599 on: August 10, 2010, 07:47:16 PM
I don't know why, but when I see Sonic Colors, I am reminded of Super Mario Galaxy. I must be seeing things incorrectly.