Official Nintendo 3DS Discussion Thread - Specs, Tech, Price? It's all here!

Emiri Landeel · 280134

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Offline Hypershell

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First of all, read Vix's post.  It's already been done by people working for free, so in saying it "won't work", you're arguing against what has been proven.

Second, do not put words in my mouth.  I never said that was how the 3DS handled its own games, I specifically referred to when "repositioning objects for a dedicated 2D angle is not possible".  Nobody with a brain stem would believe that real-time 3DS graphics fall into that category.  And I know that providing an adequate attention span, you of all people are smarter than that.

Third, your Wikipedia link is an essay of over 30 sections, most largely irrelevant to your position.  Providing it to reference technical terms and background knowledge is fine and dandy, but that doesn't excuse you from the need to apply it.  You cannot just hand someone a document and assume they will draw the same conclusions as yourself; you must elaborate as to your method, or you haven't even made an argument at all, much less a valid one.


Try again.

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Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Sorry if it looked as though I was putting words in your mouth, but I was making sure you knew that was not a valid 'good' solution to this problem. Speaking of putting words in people's mouths...

I never said it technically wouldn't work. Of course you can display only one frame buffer if you really want to. Yes, maybe I was too eager to jump to it being a game breaking flaw though. In a 3D game, polygons and so forth, it wouldn't be desirable at all. You can skew the camera angles, making things a little unpleasant. That said though, you can actually lose visibility and positioning on things, even in 2D games. This isn't exactly desirable, but perhaps not as big a deal as it may seem given your view is still flat rendered, so the game may still be technically playable.

And no, I dont have time to baby you and walk you through the wiki article step by step, as much as it seems like I may have time for wall of text sized posts you seem so accustom to. I'm fairly sure you could understand the implications by reading the basic mechanics of how it works, saving me time. That is, assuming you of a certain level. I do hope I wasn't overestimating you. Regardless, the reading is entirely elective, but I'd recommend you do. Out side of this, it's an interesting read on it's own.

Oh darn, this post is getting a little long. Till next time kids! Oh and please do leave the pompous douche bag 'victory' taunts back at home next time. It certainly doesn't increase your chances of a completely polite response or peaceful conclusion. I know it's like you, but it really isn't winning you any points either way.


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Offline Krystal

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Um...don't really like butting into arguments but I think he meant this line:

It's kind of hard to explain if you don't know much about stereoscopic 3D. Please refer to here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereoscopy

As in, you should've then explained what you were getting at after the reader (presumably) read up on stereoscopy. =X



Offline xnamkcor

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I dont have time to baby

Lemme try.

While you can choose to only see one "Point of View" in a Virtual Boy, you must remember that these games were made specifically with the purpose and the ability to let you play a game using two "Points of View".
While a Polygonal game has an unfixed camera which your brain can use to determine depth with clue such as depth and layering of object, the 2D games of a Virtual Boy fail considerably at this and depend on the use of the stereoscopic vision to let your brain determine depth.

These are polygonal games in motion. Your brain can realise a certain amount of depth from how things change as they move.




This is a non-polygonal game using only one Point of View. Sans things like Mode-7 Scaling and rotating, you don't have much or any clues as to depth beyond the shading or static size of objects.





These games even have a vast array of shades to let your brain know what is darker or lighter. The Virtual Boy has none of that.

So, what it comes down to is a very simple monochrome game with simple graphics that, through stereoscopy, lets your brain realise depth. And this is its main and only focus. When you remove one of those Points of View you are removing half your visual experience. You are now looking at an extremely off center 2D gameboy game that seems oddly obsessed with isometrics.

For an audio experience. Go find some Beatles Music(Pre-White Album) and remove one of the channels.
Well, gee, that's perfectly fine. Isn't it? Taking a stereo sound and just observing one channel sure isn't detrimental to the experience at all.



Offline Hypershell

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What you're describing is why the Virtual Boy hasn't been officially emulated on a traditional screen.  As a standard, it is unacceptable; the experience is lost.  As an option, it is possible, though barring eye strain it is clearly not ideal.

As a matter of Nintendo 3DS software policy, an option is required.  If the game has the ideal 3D mode at the flick of a finger, I don't see Nintendo chomping at the bit to reprogram a 2D experience from a centered camera angle.  It goes against what the Virtual Boy was attempting, and realistically speaking, I don't believe Nintendo would put that much effort into porting a failed console anyway.  It's too much effort to too small a benefit.  The "quick and dirty" way, as long as it actually works, is far more practical.



I never said it technically wouldn't work.
It's called "verbal context."

You said, "Because of the way the VB is rendering, only having one side of the image wont work."  And further, the post that you were arguing with contained my own concession that "Granted, Virtual Boy was never MEANT to have a 2D mode, so it's certainly possible some games will suffer for it."

You refer to the VB's rendering, which is a technical process, when in fact your argument is regarding human perception, which nowhere in your post did you speak of.  Further, you phrase your response as a counter while in fact you are reinforcing an issue that I already touched upon; a misunderstanding from there is no far stretch.

It is not "babying" people to clarify your own words.  The hardware's creation of a stereoscopic image and the human's perception of that image are two different things.  You wrote of the earlier while meaning the latter.  We all phrase things poorly sometimes, that's no reason to get defensive.  And you should know me well enough to know that my [Bumpity-Boom!] victory taunts are usually visual. :P  Your point was obviously lost, and you clarified, so thank you.  I still think you're wrong, for reasons outlined above the break, but at least now I understand what the hell you were talking about.

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Offline xnamkcor

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I don't see Nintendo chomping at the bit to reprogram a 2D experience from a centered camera angle.
And that's for things that are just simple vectors. That doesn't cover the 2D resources they'd have to redraw to make the new angle.

The "quick and dirty" way, as long as it actually works, is far more practical.
As long as it it works, hitting my dog with a baseball bat is far more practical that paying for flea shampoo.



Offline Hypershell

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...that doesn't work. o-O

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Offline Reaperoid

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[youtube]RHJ4vfpTDOQ[/youtube]
Skip to 1m25 for a red-cyan anaglyph mode.

I guess all I can really say is it isn't exactly what I'd expect out of a $4.4M game

It doesn't even have mouth animations


Offline Phi

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Just a heads-up, Netflix is now available on the 3DS (USA & CA). Although the video quality is pretty poor, it gets the job done.



Offline xnamkcor

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Just a heads-up, Netflix is now available on the 3DS (USA & CA). Although the video quality is pretty poor, it gets the job done.

I wonder why the video quality is poor. 5Mb/s should be fine for low res video. Maybe they haven't worked out some bugs with the resizing the video. Or something in the system assumes a low res device only needs a low bitrate stream.

Either way, the 3DS should be perfectly capable of handling an HD quality QWVGA stream.

A BMP of the size 400x240 is 281KB. Assuming 60 Frames Per Second, a second of video would be 16860KB. That's 132Mb/s.

And none of this means anything because it depends on your WAN connection speed and we have no idea how well the 3DS handles video playback. Also, Netflix doesn't use a stream of bitmaps. If Netflix had a way to know you are using a certain client and send a certain, pre-encoded, stream, that would probably save some trouble. For instance, sending a 400x240 5Mb/s stream to a 3DS would probably be a lot more effective than sending a 1080p or 720p 10Mb/s stream and making the 3DS resize it. Chances are it doesn't even do that. Chances are the server is just told to send the lowest quality hoping everything works out.



Offline Hypershell

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Seeings how they still plan on releasing 3D movies in the future, I'd imagine there is a 3DS-specific format.  At least in the works.  But for now, for their 2D movies, yeah, they may just be sending a low-quality stream and leaving it at that.

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Offline Align

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I wonder why the video quality is poor. 5Mb/s should be fine for low res video. Maybe they haven't worked out some bugs with the resizing the video. Or something in the system assumes a low res device only needs a low bitrate stream.

Either way, the 3DS should be perfectly capable of handling an HD quality QWVGA stream.

A BMP of the size 400x240 is 281KB. Assuming 60 Frames Per Second, a second of video would be 16860KB. That's 132Mb/s.
Isn't it because video uses UDP instead of TCP so if a packet with frame data doesn't arrive in time it's just completely dropped?



Offline Blackhook

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Offline xnamkcor

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Maybe they're cutting their losses on the development cost of making a 3DS game and jumping ship to Vita. I don't care which is better, but I can't imagine they're abandoning these projects for fun.

PS: Because it's relevant to this topic too.

http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6.0;attach=2015



Offline Hypershell

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I've said it before, and I'll say it again:  With the 3DS launch, Nintendo gave the 3rd parties some extra rope, and the 3rd parties hanged themselves.

The solution to the "only Nintendo games sell on Nintendo hardware" bitchery is not for Nintendo to cease/delay supporting their hardware.  Didn't work for Wii Speak, it ain't working for 3DS, and God willing somebody at Nintendo will figure out that it will not work for Wii-U beforehand.

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Offline Flame

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Maybe they're cutting their losses on the development cost of making a 3DS game and jumping ship to Vita. I don't care which is better, but I can't imagine they're abandoning these projects for fun.

PS: Because it's relevant to this topic too.

http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6.0;attach=2015
how exactly do I open an mpo..?

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Solar

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A 3DS is one option >.>


My life is currently bears and Jojos and everything is great.



Offline Flame

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Dont have one, dont plan on getting one. :B

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline xnamkcor

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Dont have one, dont plan on getting one. :B

Sounds like a personal problem(solution?) to me.



Offline Kieran

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And just what IS that MPO file exactly, before I go to the trouble of downloading it and transferring it to my 3DS?

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Offline VixyNyan

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MPO contains two images that forms a stereoscopic 3D effect.

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Offline xnamkcor

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MPO contains two images that forms a stereoscopic 3D effect.

He's asking what the MPO I've provided contains. Just to clarify, it's not a "3D" image. It does use both eyes, so it's still stereoscopic. It's not porn or anything, just something familiar so it's clear if there is something wrong with the image.



Offline Phi

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Rumors, rumors and more rumors. These will be apparently brought to light at Nintendo's September 13th 3DS Press Conference.

Quote
- Monster Hunter exclusive for 3DS, supports online play.

- A Yoshi side scroller for 3DS, developed by Good-Feel.

- New game from WarioWare team.

- Etrian Odyssey 3DS

- Hatsune Miku 3DS, contains all songs from Project DIVA 1 and 2.

- Grasshopper Manufacture developing Silver Case sequel/remake for 3DS.

- Presentation on eShop demos; Super Mario Land 3D will have a downloadable demo.

- The "new project" from Alchemist, the famous visual novel company, is an entirely new "moe mystery" for 3DS.

- Ace Attorney 5, will supposedly include an Edgeworth scenario. AA: Investigations being phased in to main series?

Source



Offline Klavier Gavin

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Rumors about Monster Hunter 3DS and a second Circle Pad add-on is now confirmed.





Offline Solar

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Is there a translation for what the second scan says?


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