Everyone hates Quint

[Zan]

I guess when Megaman uses a weapon the Robot Masters suddenly don't recognise him too.  Because of the new weapon and color change. 

There's much more different between Quint and R-shadow than just the color scheme.

[Gauntlet101010]

There's much more different between Quint and R-shadow than just the color scheme.

He's still recognisable as Quint over Rockman.

I mean he clearly looks like Quint!  Unless Rock plumb forgot about his doppelganger from another time, he ought to be able to see that. In the game he doesn't.  Which is one reason the WS story sucks.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Likewise, his design has several key differences with Quint,

But what if it's the same design, only in a different art style, the way some people think MegaMan Zero's Zero is?

and he's not acting under Wily

That trick's been tried before!  I know it's always Wily in the end!

[Popcornball]

Since Quint´s pogostick is half jackhammer, I guess they would have half Kid Vehicles half working tools.

Like a Tricycle with Saw blades for wheels? Or a super-soaker filled with turpentine?

Also, Quint is one of my favorite characters in the series. Also Totally sucks that we couldn't use Sakugarne for more than one level.... one that had too many cramped spaces to use it in, to boot.

[Zan]

He's still recognisable as Quint over Rockman.

Do not forget that Quint is also Rockman, it is still technically correct.

But just to make clear what the intro story actually says;

Though without any witnesses, the one leading the Dimensions with overwhelming power was a robot like Rockman.

This is the narrator speaking. The narrator has no reason whatsoever to bring up some obscure GB side series character at this point; it would confuse newcomers with unneeded explanations of Quint's origins before the game even begins. Long time fans however, would pick up the Quint connection without being told. Thus there is no reason to even mention it; the images speak for themselves.

Furthermore, a key point here is that nobody has seen the black Rockman yet, thus there are no characters around to mention the relation to Quint.

Rockman, who heard this news at Right's laboratory, took off to the scene despite being under maintenance.

Rock only heard "the news." Which is that "a group of robots calling themselves the Dimensions attacked Symphony City", he's yet unaware that there is a robot that looks like Quint/Rockman on the scene.

At the same time, Wily saw the dark Rockman, and to ascertain the mystery he sends Forte to the city.

Wily however, saw it. Wily being Wily would obviously know about the real Quint, and is thus immediately aware that this is not Quint he's dealing with; it is another Rockman. The narrator makes his point clear that Wily wants to ascertain a mystery, without having to involve Quint into the matter just yet.

Just who is this dark Rockman really?!

Solely narrative. Newcomers would be in total mystery, and fans would falsely conclude Quint, until;

My name is Rockman Shadow!

Without the narrative showing that Rock has spotted a resemblance to Quint, the dark Rockman says his name; flat out confirming to Rock that he's not dealing with Quint; in fact, he identifies himself as Rockman, Rockman's shadow to be precise. By saying that name he pulls it away from Quint, and toward Rockman himself.

Who the heck are you? How can it be you look just like me?

Which carries one big theme of the game. That this robot is literally Rockman's shadow; that as Rock fights his power increases, that as he obtains weapons from the enemies he defeats, it becomes increasingly dangerous for him; he will become like Rockman Shadow.

Likewise, Forte is completely left in the dark, as he never even was around when Quint was. Forte has to figure out another mystery; why does this robot have a similar smell as himself? Which carries the other theme of robots made in Rockman's image which fight to become the strongest; an everlasting struggle of facing stronger and stronger enemies with no gratification which can only lead to self destruction.

NONE of that requires Quint to be openly mentioned in the intro story.

The name Quint does is only brought up later when they can add the explanation that he's a modified Rockman from the future in context to Shadow's origin, and in a way that Forte who wasn't around at the time, also gets to hear it. Bringing the story full circle and gradually informing newcomers what the longtime fans already knew from solely the images. For anybody not new to the series, you'd only be lampshading the obvious.

Which is one reason the WS story sucks.

I suppose you can't even appreciate the story for the fact that Wily was not the bad guy, and the themes it carried about fighting stronger adversaries till self destruction and becoming corrupted by the power one obtains from defeated enemies.

But what if it's the same design, only in a different art style, the way some people think MegaMan Zero's Zero is?

You should check out the epic flashback to World2/5 at the end of the game. Not even Rockman looks the same as Rockman Shadow apparently narrates flashbacks in a different sprite style.

ZERO-series doesn't work that way, though.

[Mirby]

That makes complete sense, Zan!

[Bag of Magic Food]

You should check out the epic flashback to World2/5 at the end of the game. Not even Rockman looks the same as Rockman Shadow apparently narrates flashbacks in a different sprite style.

But I did check it out!  Remember?

[Gauntlet101010]

You post a lot of explanation, Zan, but it utterly fails to convince me it isn't really stupid for Rock not to see Shadow as Quint.  It just makes me convinced you're very good at explaining things away.

I suppose you can't even appreciate the story for the fact that Wily was not the bad guy, and the themes it carried about fighting stronger adversaries till self destruction and becoming corrupted by the power one obtains from defeated enemies.

Maybe if it was executed better I'd appreaciate it more.

[Bag of Magic Food]

They tell me RockMan never figured out that Blues was his brother, either.  I think MegaMan picks up on this stuff a lot faster than RockMan.

[Zan]

it isn't really stupid for Rock not to see Shadow as Quint.

And who says he didn't? The narration just chooses not to go into that.

They tell me RockMan never figured out that Blues was his brother, either.

Yet Blues has no qualms calling people his brother in Rockman Rockman...

[KudosForce]

One of the ways to make the plot better would be, in my opinion, to make Rockman Shadow look DIFFERENT than Quint, rather. That would help a lot.

They tell me RockMan never figured out that Blues was his brother, either.  I think MegaMan picks up on this stuff a lot faster than RockMan.

Except Mr. X's identity, apparently. Must be the beard.

[The Great Gonzo]

Yet Blues has no qualms calling people his brother in Rockman Rockman...

Everyone except Roll and Megaman, who were never taken.

[Gauntlet101010]

One of the ways to make the plot better would be, in my opinion, to make Rockman Shadow look DIFFERENT than Quint, rather. That would help a lot.

That'd definately help with the dialogue the chose.  Of cocurse they chould have just made the dialogue slighty different.  Or possibly even a picture that actually showed how similar Shadow was to Rock.  Maybe with his helmet off.  Any one of these, really.

Is there a MM game with a worse plot than R&F WS?  You know, that actually *has* a plot?  

[Zan]

Is there a MM game with a worse plot than R&F WS?  You know, that actually *has* a plot? 

The actual plot of RnF WS is fine, even if you think the intro is shoddily written. You're confusing the distinction there.

Also, if you're going to complain about the lack of mention of Quint early on, you might as well start complaining about how no classic series subtitle ever really factored into the plot. The Enigma of Wily, the Death of Wily, Threat from Outer Space! None of that is ever implicated outside of the visuals of the very final stage. And pretty much outright proven insignificant by then.

[Gauntlet101010]

The actual plot of RnF WS is fine

Well, it doesn't seem that way to me.  You bending over backwards to explain away every singe detail doesn't exactly convince me about it either.  I get that I can't convince you it's a bad plot.  But you really can't convince me either.  

I don't see the point in going in circles about it, though.  Obviously we won't agree.

Also, if you're going to complain about the lack of mention of Quint early on, you might as well start complaining about how no classic series subtitle ever really factored into the plot.

I don't see why I would.

[Zan]

Well, it doesn't seem that way to me.

I suppose you wanted another "Wily did it" plotline.

[Gauntlet101010]

I suppose you wanted another "Wily did it" plotline.

Just give it up, Zan.  I think the plot is terrible.

[OBJECTION MAN]

The WS game's plot was quite ambitious for a classic series game if you think about it. Dismissing it just because they failed to mention Quint in the intro is a bit weak.

[Gauntlet101010]

Oh, it's a lot more than that, that's just what this discussion focused on.  But that is a very weak spot.

I'll admit they do *try*.

[OBJECTION MAN]

Other than time travel being a lame plot device to begin with, there isn't anything wrong with it. It even has unprecedented character development.

[Gauntlet101010]

They have some good ideas.  It's not a completely terrible game from top to bottom. 

I liked that they revisited Quint.  That was nice.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Hey, I'll accept any plot that introduces us to friggin' BULLET MAN.   

[Blackhook]

I would be just fine to see those RMs in color...

[Zan]

They have some good ideas.  It's not a completely terrible game from top to bottom.

I liked that they revisited Quint.  That was nice.

So what exactly was wrong about the plotline?

[Blaze Yeager]

I have a Burning Question....Does Capcom Still Care about Him?