Topic: Megaman 9 vs Megaman 10's music

[Hiryu]

*looks around for duplicate threads*

Anyway, just wanted to see what people thought about 10's music. Afterall, something has to make up for the story. 

I myself, find 9's to be more memorable than some of 10's. I like all the pieces in 9, I can remember most, if not all, while in 10, some are okay. Maybe it's just because 10 has come out recently. There are some I'm starting to remember and favor now than say, a few days after it came out.

While 9's Wily Machine was good, I think 10's Wily Machine is the best Final Boss music in any of the current games out right now. It's quite epic. Please someone try to disprove my opinion on this.

I've heard that they composed 9's music with the thought of 2's in mind, and I can see where that worked well, if that's true. I can remember 9's tunes like 2's, and I think they tried to compose Flash in the Dark similar to the 1st Wily Stage in 2, because both are quite upbeat. Also, 3-5's Wily Stages in 2 sounds similar to 9's Strange World(Wily Stage 3), because both sound mysterious, and quite odd.

I think both have good qualities. But right now, 9 would beat 10, IMO.

[HyperSonicEXE]

10's got a few songs that blow 9's completely out of the water.

But 9's tracks are overall solid, unlike 10's ups and downs.

I can't really pass judgment without more criteria.

[MexicanSunflower]

I agree with Aldo, but I also think that Megaman 9 was moreso fanservice for the MM2 fans, while MM10 did whatever it felt like musically. All of MM10's soundtrack is new, unlike MM9 which reused tracks. I will admit, I find the intro of Blade Man's Stage ruined it for me, and the bassline of of Chill Man's was rubbish (although it does add to the sense of ambience), but the special stage themes, and the wily stages are all gold. Not to mention, the wily machine and wily capsule are much better than 9's. Because of these reasons, I think Megaman 10's soundtrack is far superior to Megaman 9.

Just to set things straight though, Megaman 9's OST is absolutely fantastic.

[Flok]

MM9's music is more traditional, where as I see MM10 as having more unique songs. Certainly love both, but Chill Man and Strike Man cannot compete music wise with the likes of Hornet Man and Tornado Man. Perhaps a far fetched comparison, but anyway I feel that MM9 is the best of the revival games so far.

Both games's Wily Stages are really well done and very hard to pick a favorite out of. MM9 is like "BAM WELCOME BACK MEGA MAN" but MM10 is like a serious showdown with Wily, music wise.

MM10's Stage Select is better than MM9's.

[CrimsonEagle]

I vote for Megaman 10.

[Stardius]

MM9 songs were really good and catchy, but overall 10 had more interesting and memorable songs.

[Align]

10 took more getting used to, but overall I think it has more lasting appeal.

[Hypershell]

I like 9's Boss Theme, Thunder Tornado, Flash In The Dark, and Wily machine (plus We Are The Robots if discussing the AST, although that boots some of the aforementioned out of the "memorable" department).  But I think 10's soundtrack was, overall, stronger.  I appreciate the fact that there is actually a fortress boss theme and two different Wily boss themes, and the main of Wily Stage 1 was awesome as well.

[Duke87]

There was definitely more effort put into 10's soundtrack. We got two separate themes for the Wily Machine and the Wily Capsule, and a separate fortress boss theme. None of the 8-bit games ever gave us four different boss themes before. The first fortress stage got two different themes - also never seen before in an 8-bit game.

9 had a lot of nostalgia, but that was largely in terms of blatant reuse, which is generally uncool. 10 took the effort and remixed the Rockman Killer themes and Bass' theme, keeping things fresh. Also, the tune from Wily Stage 4 is a nicely reminiscent of Wily Stages 3-4-5 from MM2.

Overall, I'd say 10 has the better and more well-rounded soundtrack.
But, that said, none of its fortress themes can quite match "We're The Robots". And as awesome as its Wily Machine theme is, it's not as awesome as 9's.

 

[Reg]

I listened to MM9 and MM10's music back to back. I'd almost forgotten how great MM9's music is. Concrete Man, Galaxy Man, Tornado Man, Hornet Man, We're the Robots, the robot master Boss music, all glorious themes. Though I gotta deduct some points for the recycled use of MM2 music. As much as I love MM2's score, it just wreaks of laziness. Also, I felt MM9's title and opening themes weren't as strong as past games. Don't get me wrong, they aren't bad by any means, they just don't grab me the way the other games did. Really though, at the end of the day, there's so much good about MM9's music that the good trumps my gripes.

When I heard that nearly everyone that worked on MM music in the past was making music for MM10, I was overjoyed, especially when I saw Bunbun listed as a composer. With so many composers on board, MM10's music may not sound as catchy as MM9's but it does sound far more distinct and I think it may take some getting used to for some. Chill Man has quickly become one of my favorite MM songs ever and I listen to it daily on repeat. The Opening(s) and Title music is also superior to MM9's IMO. The Special Stages themes, which are stellar arrangements of the three Rockman Killer themes from the Rockman World games, are some of the best pieces of music to ever happen to the Blue Bomber. What I feel is easily the weakest tune in the game would be the robot master Boss theme. It just doesn't stack up to MM9's or other MM Boss tunes. Outside of one Wily Stage themes, I lean more towards MM10's instead of MM9's Wily themes, but I still have much love for Flash in the Dark and We're the Robots.

MM9's music is great composition, but more often than not, it feels like it tries to be more catchy above all else. That certainly isn't bad and MM music is known for being catchy, but MM10 feels like it tried to go beyond that, and that makes it win big points in my book. That being said, it really is tough to pick one over the other so I think I need more time before casting a vote.

[Protoman Blues]

I don't think it's fair to really discuss the rehashed songs from MM2 to say that MM10's soundtrack had more effort put into it, as the many, many tracks that were original in MM9 were all pretty stellar.  The MM2 songs were put in for nostalgia sake, not laziness, and it was a brilliant idea to me.  I don't think it detracts from the soundtrack as a whole.  I mean, would anyone here complain or bring down the MM10 soundtrack if they reused the MM3 Weapon Get song?  Regardless, I don't believe that the MM2 rehashes are any reason to say that the MM10 soundtrack is better.

Keep in mind though, I actually do think the MM10 soundtrack is better.  I think the stage tracks are very unique and I like the interesting takes they took with some stage tracks.  But the stage tracks in MM9 are also very well done, as you can tell if you listen to me sing Jewel Temptation!  The boss theme is very well done, with a very catchy opening to it.  However, I also loved the MM9 Boss Theme as well.  Wily Stage 1 was very original with the rainy outside song, which after you defeat the Wily Archives (a candidate for best Wily Castle boss EVER), the true Wily Stage 1 theme starts playing and you really get into it.  As I've said before in other threads, I really do think the Wily Stage 2 theme is one of the greatest Wily Stage songs ever made in any MM game.  EVER.  Both Wily Stage 3 & 4 are good as well, however I also love every Wily Stage theme from MM9 too.  So why do I think MM10's soundtrack is better when I keep saying how much I loved everything from MM9, as well as the fact that I don't care about the MM2 rehashes?  Well, Wily Stage 5 is where I really think the MM10 shines and possibly outshines the MM9 soundtrack.  

To me, what makes a good soundtrack is the ability to capture the feel of the scene you're watching or playing, and Wily Stage 5 does that in spades.  It's such a simple track, yet it manages to do so much.  It perfectly rounds out the overall playable game, in that it uses bits from the opening cinematic scene music, FUTURE WORLD, combined with the confrontational feel & space type elements of the stage.  The use of the theme from FUTURE WORLD is really the best part of the track.  I love when soundtracks do this and manage to capture other themes of it's own soundtrack.  It's what makes Bond soundtracks so good, and one key point to why I think the SNES StarFox soundtrack is one of the greatest game soundtracks ever made.  You could make the same argument for the TMNT IV: Turtles In Time soundtrack.  With Wily Stage 5, this simple loop manages to capture the feel of the stage, the "Threat From Outer Space" aspect, and the final confrontation with Wily about to come.  It is, in my opinion, a perfect theme for wrapping up the playable game and this is why I think MM10 is a better soundtrack.  

It doesn't mean that I don't like certain songs in MM9 more than MM10's, but I still feel that MM10 has a better soundtrack as a whole.  

[Burst]

I'm surprised MM9 isn't being defended more.

I honestly enjoy MM10's soundtrack better because I like more atmospheric music as opposed to MM9's running and gunning adrenaline filled type soundtrack. Both are great and it's really just a matter of preference. My preference just happens to be 10, which I voted for.

[Hypershell]

To be fair, 10 is still new, so I'd imagine some people will reconsider their opinions in the future.  From my point of view, both are strong, but 10 is more consistently strong.  My least favorite areas were probably the mid-section (stages 3 and 4) of the castle, but I could say the same thing about 9 anyway.

The MM2 songs were put in for nostalgia sake, not laziness, and it was a brilliant idea to me.

Many words may be used to describe the re-use of MM2's "get weapon" music, but "brilliant" is not one of them.  A 4-second single-drum track is not nostalgia, it is a sign that Inafune needs to get over his damn phobia of 3.

MM10 really DID get more effort than 9, I'd say, though you make the valid point that whether or not that yields a better end result is a completely different argument.  10 harkens back to 2 with remixes rather than rehashes (minus the weapon screen which is original), overall delivering a more pleasant sound while still sticking to the NES instruments.  10 also delivers a greater variety of tracks (boss battles, special stages, challenges).  In particular I appreciate the variety of boss themes, which I think is important for MM developers to keep up.  They often get lax in that department.

And see, here's the thing about 9's throw-backs:  If you're going to re-use MM2's soundtrack, there are INFINITELY better tracks to use than boss intro, victory, and get weapon, all of which are among 2's weakest musical moments.  The boss intro especially is a head-scratcher to me, since that is in itself a rework of 1's.  Just off the top of my head here, applying 2's Robot Master battle as 9's Fortress battle (especially as opposed to 9 not HAVING a Fortress battle theme), would have worked a lot more wonders than 9's current batch of attempted nostalgia.

[Ike-Mike]

The former reuses a lot of music from MM2 and 4 thus making most of the songs not really flow while the latter has put more effort into the compositions themselves but because there was a dozen or so people working on them the soundtrack is wildly inconsistent.

I'll take 9 because all the rehashing aside I prefer it find it more upbeat and memorable overall.

[Protoman Blues]

Many words may be used to describe the re-use of MM2's "get weapon" music, but "brilliant" is not one of them.  A 4-second single-drum track is not nostalgia, it is a sign that Inafune needs to get over his damn phobia of 3.

A 4-second single drum track is indeed nostalgia, being that MM2 is arguably the majority of old school gamers favorite MM game, or the first one a lot of MM fans started with, or the one a lot of people remember the most out of them all.  I'm not saying it's better than MM3's at all, but since they were clearly going for MM2 nostalgia with MM9, it makes sense to use the MM2 Weapon Get theme, which again I say is brilliant in regardless to the nostalgia factor.  Just because you, I, and other MM fans prefer MM3's Weapon Get to MM2's does not make the actual theme less nostalgic. Like I also said...

I mean, would anyone here complain or bring down the MM10 soundtrack if they reused the MM3 Weapon Get song?

MM10 really DID get more effort than 9, I'd say, though you make the valid point that whether or not that yields a better end result is a completely different argument.  10 harkens back to 2 with remixes rather than rehashes (minus the weapon screen which is original), overall delivering a more pleasant sound while still sticking to the NES instruments.  10 also delivers a greater variety of tracks (boss battles, special stages, challenges).  In particular I appreciate the variety of boss themes, which I think is important for MM developers to keep up.  They often get lax in that department.

I'm not disagreeing with you that MM10 has more effort put into it.  It clearly does deliver a greater variety of tracks because it has more content in it (IE: More Special Stages, different character's shops, an extra Wily Stage, etc.).  MM9 had one special stage in FakeMan's stage, which had an awesome track, plus the Endless Mode, which again had another fantastic track.  As for the variety of boss themes, I've argued before that I think MM2's Boss Theme is SO GOOD that there was no need to use another.  However, that's a matter of opinion.  Personally, I think MM9's Boss Theme was going for that MM2 "It's so good" aspect as well, cept for the MM9 Wily Boss theme which still is the best Wily Boss theme ever, in my opinion.

And see, here's the thing about 9's throw-backs:  If you're going to re-use MM2's soundtrack, there are INFINITELY better tracks to use than boss intro, victory, and get weapon, all of which are among 2's weakest musical moments.  The boss intro especially is a head-scratcher to me, since that is in itself a rework of 1's.  Just off the top of my head here, applying 2's Robot Master battle as 9's Fortress battle (especially as opposed to 9 not HAVING a Fortress battle theme), would have worked a lot more wonders than 9's current batch of attempted nostalgia.

 

Okay, I'm kinda lost that you'd think that MM2's Boss Intro & Victory theme are among MM2's "weakest musical moments" for a few reasons...

Boss Intro
MegaMan 4 (Couldn't find a link to it)
MegaMan 7
MegaMan 8
MegaMan & Bass
MegaMan 10
MegaMan X

Victory (Didn't feel like linking these)
MegaMan 4
MegaMan 5
MegaMan 6
MegaMan 7
MegaMan 8
MegaMan & Bass
MegaMan 10
Marvel Vs. Capcom

I mean, personal opinion aside, MM2's Boss Intro & Victory themes have been used in a lot of MM games, so it's not just a matter of nostalgia, but more that they've become somewhat staples in MM Music.  Yeah, I like the fact that MM10 remixed them to sound a little different, but it's still the same basic theme.

Also, in further defense of MM9's rehashing, it's not like they rehashed a lot of themes here, or anything of super importance.  Lets see, the Menu, Game Over, Stage Start, Victory, Weapon Get, and Wily Castle intro.  6, count them, 6 themes out of 33 (I'm not including the SE's stuff).  That's about 1/5th of the soundtrack, and considering that these are not really major themes here (as in not as memorable as the Opening, Title, Ending, Stages, Wily Stages, Boss Themes), and that these are tracks that last about 5-10 seconds, I don't really see the big deal here.  It's meant for nostalgia purposes.I'm actually really glad they used the "lesser" tracks in there rehashing of MM2's music, because I'm glad they didn't give us the same boss theme, same stage themes, or same Wily Stage music (despite my love of them). These are the tracks I remember most from MM games.

[Flame]

I myself never really liked 2's weapon get theme.

Actually, I found it WEIRD that 9 rehashed the boss selected theme and the weapon get. Instead of making a new version like all the other games did.
9 was 2 all over again for sure.
10 feels a bit more fresh definitely. Since it has more original selections for the boss select and weapon get.
also, maybe only 6, but 6 pretty damn important ones that are prominently heard throughout.

[Protoman Blues]

Actually, I found it WEIRD that 9 rehashed the boss selected theme and the weapon get. Instead of making a new version like all the other games did.
9 was 2 all over again for sure.
10 feels a bit more fresh definitely. Since it has more original selections for the boss select and weapon get.
also, maybe only 6, but 6 pretty damn important ones that are prominently heard throughout.

....It's like you literally payed no attention to any point I was trying to make.

[Flame]

Apparently I must have missed it then. Im not at the top of my game today.

[Hypershell]

Okay, I'm kinda lost that you'd think that MM2's Boss Intro & Victory theme are among MM2's "weakest musical moments" for a few reasons...

I'm not referring to their impact on the series, I'm referring to the original tracks in and of themselves.  If we're going to talk remixes, then the point is moot, because 10 uses derivatives thereof as well.  That, I have no gripe with.

I mean, who in their right mind denies the boss intro of 8 or X?

Thanks for counting the re-used themes, though, since I hadn't combed the game soundtrack all that well (or at least I didn't find [parasitic bomb]).  So far as re-using anything significant, I'm not suggesting a direct carry-over without some change of context; a cameo of sorts.  As I said earlier, using MM2's boss theme as a fortress battle, while 9's remains as the main, would be one example.  For another, we could look at MM2's title theme.  Should it be 9's?  No.  Could it be used in some epic cutscene, seeings how the thing is regularly heralded as Rock's character theme in several other games?  Certainly.

MM2 had damn awesome music tracks, but I'm not terribly fond of its jingles.  So the fact that they chose the jingles, and 6 of them, to carry over in 9 is a tad irritating.  I can live with it, mind you, I'm just saying that to me, it detracted from rather than added to the game.

[Protoman Blues]

I'm not referring to their impact on the series, I'm referring to the original tracks in and of themselves.  If we're going to talk remixes, then the point is moot, because 10 uses derivatives thereof as well.  That, I have no gripe with.

I mean, who in their right mind denies the boss intro of 8 or X?

...But it's the same theme.  Yes, MM9 uses the exact same sound of it from MM2, but the overall theme doesn't change.  It's just slightly altered.  If I'm reading this correctly, if MM9 had just slightly altered the sound, instruments, or tempo a little bit, you'd have no problem with the Boss Intro or Victory themes?  Perhaps I just have a different definition of the word "theme" than people.  In terms of soundtracks, when I think theme, I think of things like the James Bond theme, the Indiana Jones theme, Godzilla's theme, the Imperial March, the Superman theme, and so on.  Over the course of the movies and such, there have been different variations of it, but the core theme is still there.  With MM9, all they did was simply use the exact same core theme, for nostalgia purposes.   

Thanks for counting the re-used themes, though, since I hadn't combed the game soundtrack all that well (or at least I didn't find [parasitic bomb]).  So far as re-using anything significant, I'm not suggesting a direct carry-over without some change of context; a cameo of sorts.  As I said earlier, using MM2's boss theme as a fortress battle, while 9's remains as the main, would be one example.  For another, we could look at MM2's title theme.  Should it be 9's?  No.  Could it be used in some epic cutscene, seeings how the thing is regularly heralded as Rock's character theme in several other games?  Certainly.

Yeah, they could've done MM2's Boss Theme as a fortress battle, and it would've been a nice cameo.  But I don't think that by not doing that, it takes anything away from the MM9 soundtrack at all. 

MM2 had damn awesome music tracks, but I'm not terribly fond of its jingles.  So the fact that they chose the jingles, and 6 of them, to carry over in 9 is a tad irritating.  I can live with it, mind you, I'm just saying that to me, it detracted from rather than added to the game.

And here in lies the issue.  It's all a matter of opinion & perspective.  It's not the fact that the MM2 tracks aren't memorable or nostalgic, but rather that they're not memorable for you because you don't like the specific tracks they've chosen.  Like I said, I'm in no way saying the MM2's Weapon Get is better than MM3's.  I do agree that it's one of the weaker tracks.  However, the nostalgia is still there for me because MM2 was the first MM game I, and a lot of others played, and that's what Capcom was clearly going for with MM9.  Perhaps if they chose jingles that you liked, you would've been less irritated.

[Hypershell]

If I'm reading this correctly, if MM9 had just slightly altered the sound, instruments, or tempo a little bit, you'd have no problem with the Boss Intro or Victory themes?

Isn't that what 10, to say nothing of all your links, did?  You're jumping around a bit by defending the rehashes in a rehash-vs-remix discussion, and then as evidence, linking remixes.  It's no wonder I lost you.

There are definite long-running MegaMan themes included in 2 besides the title screen, and yeah, boss intro and victory are obvious.  But the direct port from 2 is what bothers me, yes.  In their original form, 2 is actually pretty bad when it comes to the short jingles.  As you've adequately shown even the NES MegaMan games had already spruced up the victory tune better than that.  And, as I said, you can't even use the "original" logic, because that doesn't apply to 2's boss intro.

That being said, my "lack of nostalgia" remark was directed mainly at the weapon drum.  And that's really a whole other beast than the rest of this discussion, because IMHO a 4 second beat consisting entirely of 2 notes on a single instrument does not make adequate game BGM.  Ever.  It's like they took one instrument from the credits theme and dragged it kicking and screaming into its own room.  I don't know what they were thinking reusing it in 9.  And I don't know what they were thinking using a better drum to do the exact same thing in Z2's versus mode.  The MM2 weapon "theme" (I use that term loosely) is not to me a matter of whether it is preferable to copy/paste or to remix, it is a matter of simply needing to forget it and move on.

[Protoman Blues]

Isn't that what 10, to say nothing of all your links, did?  You're jumping around a bit by defending the rehashes in a rehash-vs-remix discussion, and then as evidence, linking remixes.  It's no wonder I lost you.

There are definite long-running MegaMan themes included in 2 besides the title screen, and yeah, boss intro and victory are obvious.  But the direct port from 2 is what bothers me, yes.  In their original form, 2 is actually pretty bad when it comes to the short jingles.  As you've adequately shown even the NES MegaMan games had already spruced up the victory tune better than that.  And, as I said, you can't even use the "original" logic, because that doesn't apply to 2's boss intro.

LoL, I'm impressed.  That's being picky on almost a PB level.  Bravo!

Haha, and the reason you lost me is not because of me jumping around, but because I don't think you fully understand my point in the original point that you Iris-ily Objected too.  My defense of the rehashes has nothing to do with them vs. remixes, but rather the fact that I think the rehashes are brilliant for the nostalgic purposes they were meant for, and thus not laziness.  Laziness would be if they reused all the stage themes, or Wily Castle themes, in the levels.  But these are the minor 5-10 second themes that they tossed in for nostalgia sake.  In fact, I said before that I agree with you that the remixed tunes are good in MM10.  Also, not once did I ever disagree that MM2's Boss Intro theme was the "original" version.  But like I said, to me a theme is a theme, in it's core form.  Like Bond's theme, the instruments have gotten better over time, but the core theme is still there and ever in it's original form, it's still a theme I love.  That's what purpose the links served, because as I said, I have a different frame of mind when I think of the term "theme" in soundtracks. However this is going nowhere because, just like whenever you challenge my love of the X5 Boss Music or Zero's X3 theme, it's solely based our opinions of the actual music.  Not that I don't enjoy these little musical debates though.

That being said, my "lack of nostalgia" remark was directed mainly at the weapon drum.  And that's really a whole other beast than the rest of this discussion, because IMHO a 4 second beat consisting entirely of 2 notes on a single instrument does not make adequate game BGM.  Ever.  It's like they took one instrument from the credits theme and dragged it kicking and screaming into its own room.  I don't know what they were thinking reusing it in 9.  And I don't know what they were thinking using a better drum to do the exact same thing in Z2's versus mode.  The MM2 weapon "theme" (I use that term loosely) is not to me a matter of whether it is preferable to copy/paste or to remix, it is a matter of simply needing to forget it and move on.

See, this is why you need to clarify things when you have a discussion.  Otherwise, speculation takes over, and thus here we are!  

And like in my last post, this is all a matter of opinion and perspective.  I like the MM2 Weapon Get theme and you don't.  That's all there is to it.  Like I said, perhaps if they had chosen a theme you liked, it wouldn't irritate you so much.

[Copy X]

So many  pics in one place, but where's the Eureka's at?   

Finally having the game and time spent on it, I was turned off for the most part but the more you hear it, the more you appreciate it and thus come to like it. They went above and beyond to ensure an original soundtrack and props to them. 9's music was so catchy It still slightly stands out but I like them both. I'm sure we all like bits of pieces of one or the other and that's one thing we can all be guilty about. *pounds the gavel* 

[Elpis TK31]

Though choice, especially since I haven't actually played 10 yet.

First off, Solarman's theme kicks all kind of ass, much like MM9's Flash in the dark, we're the robots and Maze of Death.
Then there's stage select, game start, weapon get and victory...10 completely owns 9 out of the water there.
Special stage 1 alone beats 9's Special Stage brainless, it really helps that I love the original theme I guess.
Endless on 10 sounds pretty good, but it's not instantgodrapewin like Maze of Death.

10's Title music is a big downer, it can in NO WAY IN HELL compete with 9...or pretty much any other classic MM (save for MM&B's title, wich was crap) 9 has the same power and vibe that I love in MM4 and 5 title themes.
I'm having trouble deciding wich has better Wily stage music, since both have some pretty damn awesome tracks...
Deciding between boss/wily battle themes is easy because 9's single Wily boss battle kicks BOTH of 10's ass, 9's regular boss battle is also alot more powerfull than 10's but 10 has a loomy dark feel, so that's a closer call.
(Don't misunderstand me, I like 10's Wily battles, but 9's just has that Final Battle feeling)

Overall, the regular stage music is on equal standing, tho 9 has an edge due to me disliking only 1 song (Jewel temptation)
against 10's Commando & Pumpman songs wich I don't really do it for me...Also, Strikeman's theme was building awesome power until I heard the "sports theme music"...I mean I know it's a baseball field and all, but it was a major moodkiller for me.

I'm voting 9 because overall I still think that it's stronger, due to the only downers being the stage select, the reused themes (except Wily Castle, because that is too good to argue with) and Jewelmans theme, but it's a close call since 10 only has a few downers too...and Weapon Get, Special Stage 1 and Solar man more than make up for it.

[Hypershell]

So many  pics in one place, but where's the Eureka's at?   

As awesome as Eureka! is, it doesn't go with the pointy finger pose very well.

What we need is somebody crazy/bored enough to edit Edgeworth's "finger to the forehead grin" pose.