The Official Pokémon Black & White Discussion Thread

[Archer]

was it still in Platinum?

of course it was

[Dr. Wily II]

Yep, it is a Gen 4 HM afterall.
Though, I rather miss Dive as a HM move.

Besides Surf, HM moves in general tend to be crap.

BUT FLY IS AWESOME TOO

[Mirby]

Fly kicks ass! It's your typical teleport move for the overworld!

[Tickle Buffalo]

Y'know what doesn't kick ass? Your terrible posts.


It'd be nice if pokemon got an entirely new team of developers, wouldn't it? One that wouldn't leave in obviously awful design just because things have always been that way. HMs and IVs and hidden game mechanics and everything like that. But no, of course that couldn't happen.

[Mirby]

Whoa, let's not get personal here. If you don't like something this bad, and obviously want it to end, then don't even waste any time berating people who do like the series and do like the current developers.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Yeah, I don't think the game is perfect in every possible way, OBVIOUSLY I HATE IT AND WANT TO SEE IT DESTROYED.

HM moves being worthless in battle but necessary to get around the game world is terrible design. Yes, really.

And I'm not berating you for liking the game, I'm berating you for your BUT FLY IS AWESOME LOOK AT ME I'M DELIBERATELY ACTING STUPID ISN'T THAT FUNNY post. Because posts like that suck.

[Mirby]

Really? I wasn't acting like that at all; I think you took my posts the wrong way. Now how about you stop attacking me here, eh?

[Tickle Buffalo]

Oh.

Really?

Oh.


Well, uh, just to let you know, Fly is a terrible move. Don't try using it against anything but the idiotic AI, it won't end well. Really won't end well.

[Dr. Wily II]

Ok, ok. Timeout now. =_=

[Tickle Buffalo]

see hms are directly responsible for this strife

THAT'S HOW BAD THEY ARE

[TheOnly]

Ummmm, I think HM moves were made more for outside-of-battle than inside-of-battle. That's how I always saw it to be. 

[Mirby]

I did too, TheOnly. There are a few good HM moves that are useful in-battle (Surf and Waterfall and... well that's pretty much it.) But for the most part, the point of HMs is for overworld actions. Which is generally why I use my 6th slot Pokémon as a HM slave if it's capable of this, so my other team members will actually be of use in battle, and not have their movesets clogged with crappy moves that can only be forgotten with the aid of the Move Deleter.

[Tickle Buffalo]

If they're not meant for use in battle, then why the hell do they still take up my moveslots?

It's just... dumb.

[Mirby]

Because the game would be even easier if they didn't.

[Sapphire Knight]

Besides, said HM moves are things that the friggin' critters should know how to do on their own accord. EX: Surf = Swimming, Strength = Moving something out of the way, Rock Smash = Breaking Rocks, etc.

[Solar]

Besides Surf, HM moves in general tend to be crap.  Say what you want about Flash, but Defog was a new low.

Yeah, Defog was completely unnecessary, good thing because I never taught it to anything >_> And I disagree about the other statement, Fly is good for ingame, and Waterfall/Strenght/Rock Climb is quite decent if your pokemon is a physical attacker, Whirlpool on the other hand...did they really need to bring it back?

[Dr. Wily II]

Well, Whirlpool was a HM back in GSC, so it's expected.

[Solar]

They could've reduced it to a TM like Flash >_>

[Dr. Wily II]

The TM list has been constant since DPPt. >.>;

[Tickle Buffalo]

Strenght/Rock Climb is quite decent if your pokemon is a physical attacker

You ever heard of a move called Return?

[Solar]

Yes but I'm talking only about HMs ingame, I'm not talking about the metagame since I know there are better options. I'm just saying that for moves that you're forced to use they're not too bad.

[TheOnly]

So ppl, ppl, how about changing the subject? This talk of HMs is little by little turning into a cyber blood war.-.-"

[Hypershell]

Yeah, Defog was completely unnecessary, good thing because I never taught it to anything >_> And I disagree about the other statement, Fly is good for ingame, and Waterfall/Strenght/Rock Climb is quite decent if your pokemon is a physical attacker, Whirlpool on the other hand...did they really need to bring it back?

Waterfall is only useful NOW because of the 4th Gen special split.  In that way, you're correct, but in the last two generations, it was worthless.

Fly, for in-game, yes it works.  Appreciated, even, due to the frequent lack of Flying type attack access.  Against actual humans it's junk.  2-turn moves invite a switch (why oh WHY can't they skip the recharge for a successful Hyper Beam finish like they used to?).  And even in the in-game you have to pray your 'man stays healthy.

Strength is worthless next to Return and Body Slam.

Rock Climb is nice for the Confusion side-effect, but there's no reason its accuracy shouldn't be higher.  It's also redundant, type-wise, since the HM list already includes Cut and Strength.

Yes but I'm talking only about HMs ingame, I'm not talking about the metagame since I know there are better options. I'm just saying that for moves that you're forced to use they're not too bad.

If it's inferior, it's inferior.  By all means, Strength is passable, yes.  But whether you're against a human or a CPU doesn't change the fact that it's an inferior attack strength to your other options.

[X-3]

Maybe they should just let badges just automatically let certain Pokemon do out-of battle stuff without the need of a HM. HMS then could just turn into TMs unrelated to out-of battle actions.

HMs just...get too much in the way, I suppose. They're a pain, what with being magically unlearn-able unless you bring it to some mind-warping man in some city. I get annoyed easily sometimes.

[Dantonumanoa Ongdolota Amycronicon]

Maybe they should just let badges just automatically let certain Pokemon do out-of battle stuff without the need of a HM. HMS then could just turn into TMs unrelated to out-of battle actions.

HMs just...get too much in the way, I suppose. They're a pain, what with being magically unlearn-able unless you bring it to some mind-warping man in some city. I get annoyed easily sometimes.

Just annoyed? I can't match the Elite Four with ROCK SMASH.