Topic: Sigma's Belial Form (X8)

[Flame]

Lumine was one weird reploid.
Seriously... Reploids with surprise tentacles...

[Hypershell]

I'll say it again, there's no reason for Sigma to require anybody to infect. Sigma never had much problems going around as a disembodied virus, even in space. He should still have a regular Reploid body and a large final form lying around.

True enough, but I'm just nailing the coffin shut.  Even if for the sake of argument Sigma suffered a bit of gross negligence and didn't prepare a giant/spare body, and even if transportation of the virus off of the moon were an issue, that still doesn't spell his demise by itself.

I really don't see any way of making sense of X8 as Sigma's "end" if the virus was not involved in the battle.

That and I'm not exactly willing to take Lumine's activities as face value, what with him crushing his respected father's corpse without motive...

Well, the short answer would be that multiple Sigmas don't necessarily agree on which Sigma stays on top.

It could very well go deeper than that, though.  Sigma is himself an old-model Reploid; if the New-Gens inherited Sigma's whole mentality on Reploid evolution and superiority, why shouldn't they see him as obsolete?  What makes Sigma (and Vile, for that matter) mean any more to the New-Gens than humans mean to Sigma?  Family ties didn't stop Sigma from attacking the humans that created him, why should they stop the New Gens from disposing of Sigma who "awakened" them?  You could very well parallel it to the alleged "retconned death of Cain" in TDoS.

[Flame]

He never died though. :l
but I understand what you mean.

[Hypershell]

Hence the use of the word "alleged", and the conveniently placed quotes.

[Flame]

Except it shouldnt even be considered, given the actual width of the craters vs the flash over and the small continuity issues it would create.
I mean, for a series of remakes that are trying to be really faithful while incorporating as much new flavor as possible, retconing a character like Cain, whom is mentioned till X4, and is the leading scientific mind of the century who failed at rebuilding Zero, (I feel that that fact is what best shows and points the Wily finger at Serges) would be, well, odd.

[Hypershell]

You needn't tell me, I agree on all points.  But Capcom has handled character deaths worse than that, so the idea that they would kill Cain early is conceivable.  But I do not in any way see MHX in and of itself as retconning that yet, since Cain's fate is not addressed, and pulling an old guy out of a disaster zone in a fantasy story is hardly uncommon.  For Cain to be considered dead in MHX, a sequel needs to cement it.  Such hasn't been done yet and likely won't.

(I feel that that fact is what best shows and points the Wily finger at Serges)

Maybe when taking X2 alone, but future games actually cement the idea even further.  Serges created the first Z-Saber, which is repeatedly stated to be linked to Zero's power, and created a Zero body so "unanalyzable" as to even throw Light for a loop (X5).  And Light is certainly a greater authority in robotics than Cain.

[Flame]

Well true, But it still means something. (especially if even the GREATER authority cant figure it out.)

[CyberXIII]

This is a little late, but why couldn't Siggy just hop into one of the reploids that was shaped like him?

[Pringer X]

^Because, as Zan said, he's perfectly capable of traveling large distances as just a virus, then does the Body Hop Dance to continue on.

My theory is all of Sigma was gathered into one place, hence why Belial Sigma is considered the strongest; it's the cumulative form of every piece of Sigma, and when the place they were on blew up, so did Sigma. This kills Sigma to prevent him from showing up later, the Maverick Virus is still loose for the Elf Wars to occur, and continuity isn't destroyed.

[Align]

This is a little late, but why couldn't Siggy just hop into one of the reploids that was shaped like him?

Weren't the NG reploids immune to the virus?

[Flame]

This is a little late, but why couldn't Siggy just hop into one of the reploids that was shaped like him?

You SERIOUSLY need to pay more attention when we have discussions.

[CyberXIII]

You SERIOUSLY need to pay more attention when we have discussions.

Ahem.....let me put it another way.

The New Generation Reploids were originally designed to be immune to the Sigma Virus.  As such, they couldn't be forced to go Maverick, and did so at will instead.  However, all of them had Sigma's DNA, which turned them evil anyway.

Now, my question is this: wouldn't having Sigma's DNA within them automatically revoke any immunity they might have had to his virus.

[Flame]

 No. They are still immune to the virus. the DNA is just a loophole, a flaw in their immunity. because while they cannot be made irregular through the virus, they can through the DNA, which influences Sigma-like thinking, and thus, they go Irregular of their own accord, agreeing with Sigma's ideals.

[Turian]

So basically, no one has the ability to worry as X does. This is what keeps him from going maverick, and causes the new Gens to come to the realization that all others are inferior and they are the future. X8 makes since now! Thanks guys!

[Flame]

No, X's worrying and the new Gen Maverick outbreak are two different things. Sort of. Sigma couldnt get X's limitless potential for his own, So he did the next best thing, played his part in ensuring the creation of reploids with Limitless potetial who would follow him. the Copy Chip is the NEw Gen way of achieving limitless potential, or something like that.
I dont remember now.

[Align]

What was it that defined X's limitless potential? IIRC his worrying was unrelated, though an additional thing that made him superior.

[Hypershell]

X's worrying defines his limitless "evolutionary" potential, the fact that he can further the relationship between humans and robots in a manner which no other Reploid can.  Whether the result of that will be positive or destructive is unknown, which is what piqued Sigma's interest in TDoS.  When most fans hear "limitless potential", they think of his combat performance, which is a different thing, although perhaps related.

In terms of his combat abilities, X is simply known to grow more powerful as he fights.  It's even been mentioned in Command Mission, which lacks the usual Variable Weapon System associated with that trait, and also strongly evidenced to be true of X's core abilities in X6 (High Max is immune to the X-Buster at first but is stunned by it in later fights).  This manner of growth is shared with Zero (noted by Berkana in Xtreme2; also relevant is that both X and Zero are listed as power/speed unknown in X2), while X's worrying and associated "evolutionary potential" are X's alone.

[Zan]

When most fans hear "limitless potential", they think of his combat performance, which is a different thing, although perhaps related.

Those aren't separate things. Remember Sigma's words in Day of Sigma: "So that is the power you possess." in response to X's sudden boost of power. Likewise, there was a similar scenario in the battle with VAVA. These sudden boosts of impossible strength are unique to X. Though, they have been less abundant lately, most likely because X has been fighting on their level.

Zero's equivalent of that, is probably his power growth by the virus, or his learning ability. Though at times you have to wonder why nobody thinks Zero has limitless potential. Just like it's very weird that X is never considered immune to the virus.

[Hypershell]

Those aren't separate things. Remember Sigma's words in Day of Sigma: "So that is the power you possess."

This is what I get for being afraid to use too many parenthesis in one post.  I was going to make a note of that.

Still, X's "limitless potential" goes beyond combat.  That's what I was getting at.  There is some distinction between combat potential and evolutionary potential, given that Zero seems to match X in one despite lacking the other.  But since X is limitless in both it is only natural that they'd overlap within him, thus Sigma's observation.  X's evolutionary potential is in his judgment, worrying, and such, and Sigma wants to see what happens when X is pushed in that regard (Zero, the missiles, and such).  The scars on his eyes were the answer.

Zero's equivalent to X spontaneously powering up would probably be his sheer persistence.  X's potential let him punch Sigma with a hole in his waist.  Zero was still blasting Sigma while he didn't even have a waist.

[Align]

Just like it's very weird that X is never considered immune to the virus.

He does take damage from it in X5, so I guess high resistance would be more accurate?

@Hypershell:
While his ability to worry is a key thing, I'm not sure I'd relate it to evolution since it's largely static - evolution implies progress, and he cares equally for both sides, now as then.

[Hypershell]

Watch TDoS again, because the bulk of Sigma's conversation with Cain is about how X's worrying ties into his potential.

I'm not sure if I would call X's character "static", given that he continually questions his own actions and those of his enemies, making efforts to understand them rather than simply dismiss them.

But the trait of evolutionary potential is not just about X personally, but also how X affects the world around him.  As Sigma put it, "the potential to advance all Reploids."  It basically boils down to X's thought processes not being fully understood.  X's worrying gives him a unique viewpoint that no other Reploid has.  He can connect with others, be they human or Reploid, better than any other Reploid can, which leaves him in a position to influence the world in ways that other Reploids cannot, and to facilitate the connection between humans and robots.  As long as X remains unique in that regard, he alone advances that relationship.

[Jetfire]

On the subject of Sigma dying in space on X4 and by extention X8, I think you guys overlooked something.

Sigma did not blow up on the final weapon and return in a virus state on earth.

If you watch the final weapon animation during the credits you see what appears to be a ship taking off from the final weapon and heading to earth. It occurs at the end of the credits before the epiloge.

This is undoubtly either Sigma in a new body or the remains of his current body that he used in the fight, piloting back to earth to get exposeure to the virus.

This is very similar to the final battle of X3. Before the lab blows up you see X and Zero teleport out but before the explosion is over you hear a third teleportation noise which is Sigma himself.

So maybe the loss of viral presence on the moon theory holds some weight with Belial Sigma's final death.

BTW, Sigma has always been arrogant, but not stupid so why would he initate the takeover of the jakob project before his body was complete? Surely he would have learned from the Final Sigma W body that the hunters reach him faster than expected.

[Flame]

we dont know what that was. It could be sigma, it could be anything. Hell, it could even just be them showing X adn Zero leaving.
Who knows. noones asked Inafune before.

[Pringer X]

I'm kinda surprised no one's mentioned anything I said, for better or worse.

Also, agreed with Flame, nothing was mentioned about that ship and so it could have been anything. If there isn't going to be an X9, then odds are we can assume it's not Sigma and that the Elf Wars occur shortly after X and Co. get back to Earth and at some point Axl gets killed off and made into a biometal in ZX Advent gets cameo'ed in a bull-[parasitic bomb] plot twist.

[Flame]

And why can't A be Axl..?
Also, im sure there WILL be an X9. Inafune I think said he would like to return to X some time, he's just "busy"