Topic: Metroid Discussion Thread

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

1000th post GANGSTAS, YEAH!!!

ARM CANNON IT UP RIDLEY'S MOUTH!!!

lmao.

[Bueno Excelente]

I seriously loved those moves. I loved the game in terms of gameplay and animations. It was fluid, moved like butter, the combat was awesome...

Hated the graphics, though. First game without ambiance. BRING BACK RETRO.

[Flame]

Do people really forget that The baby was stolen by Ridley?

If he was talen by pirates, then one can assume that not only did Mother Brain control him, but they experimented on him, making him aggressive. After he nearly kills her, he regains his senses and stops. In fact, he sorta lingers there, almost as if confused.

And then yadda yadda, comes to save Samus.

[Bueno Excelente]

Do people really forget that The baby was stolen by Ridley?

If he was talen by pirates, then one can assume that not only did Mother Brain control him, but they experimented on him, making him aggressive. After he nearly kills her, he regains his senses and stops. In fact, he sorta lingers there, almost as if confused.

And then yadda yadda, comes to save Samus.

Again, Nintendo doesn't think that much.

If they has HONESTLY never thought on giving Samus a personality before Other M, you can be damn sure they weren't thinking that hard.

[Fxeni]

I don't know, it's pretty clear that they were feeding the baby quite a lot. Not to mention his size was ridiculously huge compared to most metroids. Some thought was put into that part, at the very least.

[Bueno Excelente]

Only because it'd be ridiculous for Samus to be attacked by a tiny little Metroid. They couldn't make it just like the others too. So they just made it bigger in order to make it special-looking. Problem solved.

[Zan]

He let Samus go through a whole section of health-losing while she could have perfectly put a suit upgrade on.

Samus let herself go through it, she didn't whine about it. And with save stations all around, neither should you. Meanwhile, Adam made perfectly clear he didn't want her exploring the area beyond her current equipment, including Varia Suit. As in, you were not supposed to stay in the heat zone for any prolonged period of time. Which is why he authorized it only when there was no way back.

The other games had minimal story, which suited the Metroid series best. However, if you want a story, you better make it good. This was not good.

You're admitting here that Other M was ultimately limited to the very clichés its predecessors set; you're complaining about all of Metroid. Which just comes to show why you're also moaning about the very premises set by Metroid II and III.

The baby did the EXACT same thing Anthony did.

I was not aware Anthony considered Samus his mother.

[Bueno Excelente]

Samus let herself go through it, she didn't whine about it. And with save stations all around, neither should you. Meanwhile, Adam made perfectly clear he didn't want her exploring the area beyond her current equipment, including Varia Suit. As in, you were not supposed to stay in the heat zone for any prolonged period of time. Which is why he authorized it only when there was no way back.

It is [tornado fang]ing stupid in story terms, and you know it. Varia Suits never hurt anyone, and a protective armor should be allowed at all times. It makes perfect sense from a gameplay stucture standpoint, but it makes absolutely no sense within the story.

You're admitting here that Other M was ultimately limited to the very clichés its predecessors set; you're complaining about all of Metroid. Which just comes to show why you're also moaning about the very premises set by Metroid II and III.

The first Metroids didn't hit you over the head with the story. That's my very point. Other than a basic reason to complete a mission, you have no story in the other Metroids. In this one, however, you do, and the game's central thing is its story, going as far as to have the option to watch the cutscenes after you played the game.

I was not aware Anthony considered Samus his mother.

The [tornado fang] does that have to do with it? That is the stupidest reasoning I've ever seen. It was sacrificing one's life to save Samus'. The fact that an irrational creature thought of her as close for a few hours should not matter at all.

[Zan]

It is [tornado fang]ing stupid in story terms, and you know it. Varia Suits never hurt anyone, and a protective armor should be allowed at all times. It makes perfect sense from a gameplay stucture standpoint, but it makes absolutely no sense within the story.

And I'm saying the end result was nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's something you're supposed to overlook for gameplay reasons alone.

he first Metroids didn't hit you over the head with the story. That's my very point. Other than a basic reason to complete a mission, you have no story in the other Metroids. In this one, however, you do, and the game's central thing is its story, going as far as to have the option to watch the cutscenes after you played the game.

And by building up what the preceding Metroids introduced, and Fusion demands it lead to, the many plot points you complained about in Other M came into existence. If it didn't, it'd be even less classic Metroid than it already is.

The [tornado fang] does that have to do with it? That is the stupidest reasoning I've ever seen. It was sacrificing one's life to save Samus'. The fact that an irrational creature thought of her as close for a few hours should not matter at all.

The very fact that Samus is touched on a deeper level by its desire to protect its mother, despite her being the one that slaughtered the baby's true family, the other Metroids. Again, you're dealing with the very premises set by the older Metroid titles, the reason why she spared it at the end of Metroid II.

[Rin]

Good God, Zan. I suspected once you were delusional when it comes to plots from games, but I didn't think it was actually true.
And now that I finally [tornado fang]ing said this, I'm out of this thread.
Ciao! ^___^

[OBJECTION MAN]

Yeah Zan is so delusional paying attention to details, taking in the facts, and making logical connections based on said facts.

Shame on you Zan. Shame on you.

[Rin]

Yeah Zan is so delusional paying attention to details, taking in the facts, and making logical connections based on said facts.

Shame on you Zan. Shame on you.

Ha, ha, ha... good one, man.
Okay then.

Paying attention to details? I can give him that. But hey, I do that too!
Taking in the facts? FACTS? Okay, I can give him that too. Sure. Nothing wrong with that.
Making logical connections based on said facts... yes, I can... WAIT WAIT WHOA WHAT?
Logical Connections? You mean all those things he theorizes about, and where most of them aren't even there because the creators of the [tornado fang]ing games obviously didn't think of all those things so much? You've got to be kidding me.

I mean, I can believe Isoc might be Wily. It would make sense, given his creepy obsession with Zero.
But much of the other stuff he [tornado fang]ing theorized about related to this, and other crap I just can't seem to remember right now, is just plain fan bullshit.

And don't get me wrong, I enjoy a nice speculation or two, but only with games/comics/mango that have ACTUAL plot.

Then there's this argument with Flash about the plot of Other M... yeah.

Just so we are clear about something. I do enjoy the fact that Zan can provide many useful information about the Megaman/whatever series, and I don't really hate the guy or anything.
But I just think he's delusional when it comes to certain things plot related.

THERE.

[Zan]

Sounds to me like you have no clue what exactly we're discussing 90% of the time.

[Bueno Excelente]

And I'm saying the end result was nowhere near as bad as you make it out to be. It's something you're supposed to overlook for gameplay reasons alone.

Because we're supposed to overlook horrible [parasitic bomb] in games, right?

And by building up what the preceding Metroids introduced, and Fusion demands it lead to, the many plot points you complained about in Other M came into existence. If it didn't, it'd be even less classic Metroid than it already is.

And it came out as one of the worst stories I've ever seen in an AAA game. Gears of War has a deeper and more touching story than this.

The very fact that Samus is touched on a deeper level by its desire to protect its mother, despite her being the one that slaughtered the baby's true family, the other Metroids. Again, you're dealing with the very premises set by the older Metroid titles, the reason why she spared it at the end of Metroid II.

We have no [tornado fang]ing idea why she spared it in Metroid 2. Nor do we have any kind of connection with her feelings in the other Metroids. I'm saying this game is awful, and the story is absolutely damn horrible, making no sense at all from any kind of standpoint.

The japanese man whose name I cannot remember who wrote this imagined Samus as a woman who lost her entire badass nature and independence when confronted with an incompetent "superior" whose worth is banged over our heads. [parasitic bomb]'s awful.

[Rin]

Sounds to me like you have no clue what exactly we're discussing 90% of the time.

Oh? Is that so?
Then how about you make a separate thread, or something (since I don't want to spam this one more than I already did) where you'll explain to me, and prove to everyone else how wrong I am  about your constant asspulls when it comes to plot elements regarding Megaman games... and some other games too, probably.
Indulge me.

Unless you are just talking about this topic and your discussion with Flash, which I can summarize this way:

ZAN: Everything makes sense because the creators clearly meant much more through THIS and THAT than you might think.

[Bueno Excelente]

To be honest, I can't really remember a good, strong, independent and non-sexualized game heroine made in Japan. Aside from the usual weeaboo RPG thingers which are usually horrible written.

[Zan]

Because we're supposed to overlook horrible [parasitic bomb] in games, right?

If it's enforced by gameplay, yes.

We have no [tornado fang]ing idea why she spared it in Metroid 2. Nor do we have any kind of connection with her feelings in the other Metroids. I'm saying this game is awful, and the story is absolutely damn horrible, making no sense at all from any kind of standpoint.

The japanese man whose name I cannot remember who wrote this imagined Samus as a woman who lost her entire badass nature and independence when confronted with an incompetent "superior" whose worth is banged over our heads. [parasitic bomb]'s awful.

We know as much about Samus' motivation during those games as we did about Samus' badass nature and independence; the result of the collective fan-consciousness making Samus out to be a certain person. That is, if there aren't actually a lot of Japanese-only material that details it. Either way, Sakamoto took that and expanded on it. It would be unfair to consider Other M outside of its established series. There just are certain things it could not have done differently, from HAL9000  to government bioweapon use to any of the plot points on "Mother" and "Baby"; this is Metroid.

As for what they did expand upon; the character of Samus Aran. Some like the result, others hate it. Me, personally, I don't care too much for Samus as a model of female badassery and independancy; the addition of a greater emotional focus was a welcome one. All they need now is find a better balance, instead of going overboard as they did here. If Fusion is the basis for Samus' future character than all should be fine; they can not have her collapse in every title as much as she did here.

prove to everyone else how wrong I am  about your constant asspulls when it comes to plot elements regarding Megaman games... and some other games too, probably.
Indulge me.

I post preciously few things not backed up with fact. And with facts I mean exact quotes from game, manual or other materials. As it is, without specific examples the burden of proof is still on your end.  With bringing up just Isoc and Wily as your best case, you're not showing well how much you actually pay attention to plot.

[Flame]

Oh? Is that so?
Then how about you make a separate thread, or something (since I don't want to spam this one more than I already did) where you'll explain to me, and prove to everyone else how wrong I am  about your constant asspulls when it comes to plot elements regarding Megaman games... and some other games too, probably.
Indulge me.

Unless you are just talking about this topic and your discussion with Flash, which I can summarize this way:

ZAN: Everything makes sense because the creators clearly meant much more through THIS and THAT than you might think.

Better, yet, why don't you prove it? prove to us, that anything Zan says is pulled from nowhere. As far as I can remember, almost all of what he says makes perfect sense, an can be backed up if he is asked for sources. And when he DOES theorize, he makes sure to emphasize that it is just theory, and that subject is then discussed as theory only.

[OBJECTION MAN]

To be honest, I can't really remember a good, strong, independent and non-sexualized game heroine made in Japan. Aside from the usual weeaboo RPG thingers which are usually horrible written.

"To be honest, I can't really remember a good, strong, independent and non-sexualized game heroine made in Japan. Except I can, but they don't count cause I dont like them."

???

Better, yet, why don't you prove it? prove to us, that anything Zan says is pulled from nowhere. As far as I can remember, almost all of what he says makes perfect sense, an can be backed up if he is asked for sources. And when he DOES theorize, he makes sure to emphasize that it is just theory, and that subject is then discussed as theory only.

Crap. Beat me to it.

[Bueno Excelente]

"To be honest, I can't really remember a good, strong, independent and non-sexualized game heroine made in Japan. Except I can, but they don't count cause I dont like them."

Thanks for spinning my argument into something I didn't say, [Bumpity-Boom!].

[OBJECTION MAN]

No problem. Just rewording it to how it sounded.

[Zan]

To be honest, I can't really remember a good, strong, independent and non-sexualized game heroine made in Japan. Aside from the usual weeaboo RPG thingers which are usually horrible written.

I think there's two problems with the premise of a good, strong, independent, non-sexualized heroines, and even heroes. First, all (main) characters in fiction are idealized and sexualized in order to attract to the viewer. Secondly, too much strength and independence ultimately leads to one-dimensionality. Characters aren't supposed to be perfect with only strength and no weakness, nor are they supposed to be so independent they have no social and emotional interaction whatsoever. Samus was that kind of one-dimensional character, until they flipped her around a little too far to the other side. Now is the time to find balance between both depictions.

[Bueno Excelente]

I think there's two problems with the premise of a good, strong, independent, non-sexualized heroines, and even heroes. First, all (main) characters are fiction are idealized and sexualized. Secondly, too much strength and independence ultimately leads to one-dimensionality. Characters aren't supposed to be perfect with only strength and no weakness, nor are they supposed to be so independent they have no social and emotional interaction whatsoever. Samus was that kind of one-dimensional character, until they flipped her around a little too far to the other side. Now is the time to find balance between both depictions.

Sexualized, huh? Idealized, huh?

[Rin]

I post preciously few things not backed up with fact. And with facts I mean exact quotes from game, manual or other materials. As it is, without specific examples the burden of proof is still on your end.  With bringing up just Isoc and Wily as your best case, you're not showing well how much you actually pay attention to plot.

See, and this is where the problem is.
You say facts, exact quotes from games, manuals or other materials. I have no problem with those. It's your constant "GEE I GUESS IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THE CREATORS CLEARLY MEANT MUCH DEEPER STUFF AND THEY TOTALLY DIDN'T JUST RUSH THE PLOT OF MEGAMAN X[insertnumberhere] JUST SO THEY CAN HAVE A REASON TO KEEP SPAMMING MORE GAMES!" attitude that I have a wee bit problem with.

Why? I'll tell you why.
Plot from Megaman X, which I'll use in this example, is laughably bad and simple. By looking so much into this, and trying to make connections of various stupid crap left unanswered, you just make yourself look kinda stupid. Of course, I'm not forcing you to NOT DO THIS, I'm just saying that in my eyes it looks delusional. Not a very bad and dangerous kind of delusional, but still.

Megaman Zero, for one, is a bit different, and I actually enjoyed all those different plot elements from it... the audio dramas and whatnot. Since it really seems like they actually put some thought into the plot, even if still a bit simple, it was much better. It didn't seem forced, it didn't seem stupid. It felt just right. This is a game, which is actually worth exploring with various theories... and yet I wouldn't dare look too much into it, when it's obvious that even in this case, the creators obviously... didn't think that much about this or that.


So, to summarize what I'm trying to say here:

NO ZAN! I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR ACTUAL EFFIN FACT BACKED UP THEORIES WHICH DO MAKE SENSE, BUT ABOUT YOUR CONSTANT "LOOKING TOO MUCH INTO IT" WHICH MIGHT SEEM TO MAKE SENSE, BUT OVERALL ALL OF IT FALLS DOWN WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT MEGAMAN GAMES HAVE, FOR THE MOST PART, [parasitic bomb] PLOT WITHOUT ANY WELL MADE CONCLUSION (except Zero, BN and Star Force, more or less. But I don't count these since they actually have decent plots which work)! SO BEFORE YOU TELL ME NEXT TIME ABOUT HOW MUCH DEEPER AND MEANINGFUL THE PLOT OF MEGAMAN X IS AND HOW FOOLISH I AM FOR NOT PROVIDING ANY "PROOF" FROM THE HUNDREDS OF YOUR POSTS WHICH CONTAINED THESE THEORIES AND WHERE MOST OF THEM HAVE BEEN WIPED OUT BY THE FORUM CRASHES PLEASE REMEMBER THIS:

[spoiler]"OH LOOK IT'S SIGMA AS THE BAD GUY AGAIN! I DIDN'T EXPECT THAT AT ALL! WHOOO!"[/spoiler]

[OBJECTION MAN]

(except Zero, BN and Star Force, more or less. But I don't count these since they actually have decent plots which work)

Forgetting Legends? ZX had a good amount of structure as well, even if it was about morphers. Doesn't change the fact that it had some thought behind it. The fact that you even place BN and SF up there qualifies ZX beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Oh and, yeah Sigma was behind everything always that's why- oh [parasitic bomb] X8 and XCM. Oops!