Topic: What's up with ZX3?

[OmegaZ]

Copy X always seems to be weak against Ice.

Exactly, Even neutral bosses have a weakness!

What have you got to say about that Sato? óVó

[Satoryu]

But I noticed even with neutral bosses, there was always an element that did more damage than another.

Then you're making [parasitic bomb] up. But that's not my argument. I'm saying that there exist bosses that don't have a weakness at all, whether they have an element or not.

In Copy X's case, he switches elements, meaning his weakness changes as well. When he's neutral, he isn't vulnerable to any element in particular. Seraph X is in fact weak to ice, though, but he's the exception; every other Z/ZX final boss doesn't have an elemental weakness.

[Thanatos-Zero]

Dispite of these gameplay elements now, I want to see to which degree the sequel of ZXA might affect the overall story.

My conclusion of the speech of Thomas was, that it shouldn´t have been Albert to recreate the world into a utopia without conflict and war, but him all alone.
It might be strange that we haven´t seen much of Thomas activity in the past, but he will follow the goal which Albert once followed.
To be exact, he wishes that all lifeforms shall be merged into one perfect being which equalls in it´s influence and powers with that what we call god.
Model V willl become the instrument and vessel for the unification of man and maschine. Thomas will move that process and therefore he is willing to become the dorminant soul in that new borned creature.
The sequel will be named ZXE, the End of Evangelion.

[Zan]

Then you're making [parasitic bomb] up. But that's not my argument. I'm saying that there exist bosses that don't have a weakness at all, whether they have an element or not.

Thing is, in Advent, it isn't just about the elemental triangle, it's about figuring the best tactic to beating a boss. You don't consider just the element, but also the style of attack that's suitable for the bosses pattern. In the ZERO-series, everything could be solved by element charge slashes and combos that ignore the damage barrier. Whereas in Advent, your best method of attack lies with alternating different forms in a tactical manner.

An especially notable example is how people have figured out how to beat the game's bosses in as short a time as possible. There's lots of neat tricks that are possible that only partially abuse the elemental triangle. Such as how a Chronoforce + Rospark combination can be used to take down Queenbee. Even the game's final boss can fall easily to tactical use of the forms you're given.

[Blaze Yeager]

Thing is, in Advent, it isn't just about the elemental triangle, it's about figuring the best tactic to beating a boss. You don't consider just the element, but also the style of attack that's suitable for the bosses pattern. In the ZERO-series, everything could be solved by element charge slashes and combos that ignore the damage barrier. Whereas in Advent, your best method of attack lies with alternating different forms in a tactical manner.

An especially notable example is how people have figured out how to beat the game's bosses in as short a time as possible. There's lots of neat tricks that are possible that only partially abuse the elemental triangle. Such as how a Chronoforce + Rospark combination can be used to take down Queenbee. Even the game's final boss can fall easily to tactical use of the forms you're given.

Hey Didn't They Confirm ZX3 Back in '08?

[OmegaZ]

Not that I know of.

[Satoryu]

Again, Zan, that's not my argument. When did anyone bring that up, for that matter? We've only been talking about elements as of later.

[Zan]

Hey Didn't They Confirm ZX3 Back in '08?

What are you quoting my entire post for?

Again, Zan, that's not my argument. When did anyone bring that up, for that matter? We've only been talking about elements as of later.

I think you instead missed mine; we were talking about Inti's current weapons system compared to the get weapon system of old.

My point here is. Inti is not restricted to the simplistic elemental triangle. It might still be present, but is not the end of all in each battles. Inti greatly expanded that system to be similar to the original weakness chains of classic, but usable for a much greater variety of attack styles. Therefore, we should not limit our views solely to the elemental triangle.

As I said, even in non-elemental boss battles, they have adhered to the original Rockman formula in that there is always a unique method of attack that takes care of the boss in the best manner. This is how Inti has been gradually developing their system to step out of the limitations of the all purpose elemental chips by instead applying the elements to specific attacks. In later ZERO and the ZX titles, whenever you encounter a non-elemental boss, there is a specific non-elemental method to attack that boss. For example, the Recoil Rod in ZERO3.

[Thanatos-Zero]

Concidence or intended?

There will be a ZXE, I firmly belief in this.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Whereas in Advent, your best method of attack lies with alternating different forms in a tactical manner.

Yeah, you alternate between TIME CRAB and Zx. And that's it.


Sometimes A when you hit dialogue I guess.

[Satoryu]

He speaks the truth.

[OmegaZ]

we should not limit our views solely to the elemental triangle.

My point exactly!

[Hypershell]

Chronoforce is definitely too abusable in Advent.  I mean, really, a time attack that affects all bosses, they had to have seen that coming.

I don't know that I agree with the whole "specific method to take down bosses" shpiel.  That's really more personal play style than anything, rarely is there any single "best" way to do things, due to the abundance of forms in ZXA.  Not counting Chronoforce, that is.  The main thing limiting you is the shared BME, and if you're stuck without it, you either go for Model A or ZX's saber combos, the latter of which arguably does more damage anyway (available weapon energy simply means chaining it to a charged buster).

Consider also the actual game progression in battling Pseudoroids in ZXA and how it interferes with various methods which come to mind under the argument.  When you meet Chronoforce, your selection is Model A, Buckfire, and possibly Rospark.  None of those are ideal.

And there's no boss who is weak to the Recoil Rod.  It doesn't help you to actually deal greater damage to any boss, the flinch effect is just handy for disruption.  Really, in Zero series you simply maul everything with the saber, be it combos or charged saber (1/4 a life bar from a single neutral-element charged attack is nothing to sneeze at in any situation).

Concidence or intended?

I'm pretty sure the six-to-twelve-wings-with-circle-behind shpiel is typical of "divine" characters in Japanese fiction.  See G-Gundam.

[Flame]

And Sephiroth.
And Lumine.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Okay so I did some thinking and here is my grand summary of the best forms to use on bosses.

Deerburn - model A
Chronoforce - model A
Rospark - model A
Condorock - model A
Kaisemine - Rospark can actually work alright here!
Bifrost - lol Zx
Tesrat - lol Zx
Shisas - lol Zx
Atlas - model A
Siarnaq - model A
Tethys - model A
Helios - Grey's model L works alright, but then you run out of energy and he still has like half his health left and it's just ohhhhhhh. Ashe's is just whatever.
Zx - model A
PnP - This fight does actually reward switching, I'll admit. Zx to do damage when you get an opportunity, then P to slow down those fire walls, then H or A to hit Pandora through her shields, and so on.
Dragonbert - You've got a choice between P or F I guess. You can even go H if you don't mind getting hurt in return for a better time. (Bet you can't beat 40 seconds)
Albert - A to break his shield, then Zx to do damage. I guess you can go H or Chronoforce if you find dashing under that spinning blade attack too hard. And maybe P for the two giant lasers attack.



So in total that's two fights which really reward switching, and three which don't have either Zx or A as the obvious best.


I am not buying your tactical switching argument, no sir.

[Satoryu]

My point exactly!

No, actually it's not. You weren't saying anything like that. Quit riding Zan's coattails.

[Flame]

Okay so I did some thinking and here is my grand summary of the best forms to use on bosses.

Deerburn - model ZX
Chronoforce - Model ZX/Queenbee
Rospark - model L
Condorock - model ZX
Kaisemine - ZX
Bifrost - ZX/Quenbee
Tesrat -  L
Shisas - ZX
Atlas - model A
Siarnaq - model A
Tethys - model A/Buckfire +Chronoforce's time slow down
Helios - Grey's model L works alright, but then you run out of energy and he still has like half his health left and it's just ohhhhhhh. Ashe's is just whatever.
Zx - model A/ZX
PnP - This fight does actually reward switching, I'll admit. Zx to do damage when you get an opportunity, then P to slow down those fire walls, then H or A to hit Pandora through her shields, and so on.
Dragonbert - You've got a choice between P or F I guess. You can even go H if you don't mind getting hurt in return for a better time. (Bet you can't beat 40 seconds)
Albert - A to break his shield, then Zx to do damage. I guess you can go H or Chronoforce if you find dashing under that spinning blade attack too hard. And maybe P for the two giant lasers attack.

This works for me. Of course, you didnt specify whether you were saying before rematches or not. the whole point of the thing is you beat them all, then in the rematches you have the forms to use against them. You's be surprised how fast L can take down Rosepark and Hedgeshock.

[Tickle Buffalo]

In rematches you just use Zx for everyone except Albert. With time crab support when appropriate, of course.

You want fast? Zx takes down Rospark and Tesrat in under 7 seconds each. Can L do that? I mean, I don't use it much, maybe I'm missing something, but it certainly doesn't look like it can.

[Flame]

Im not looking for time records. Im looking for what gets the job done easier. L freezes rosepark if he's on the vines. you can then hit him twice with the halberd. 1 ground hit, 1 mid air hit. Rinse repeat.

pretty much the same for Hedgeshock. And on hard mode, trust me, you'll WANT to use the elements to your advantage.

[Hypershell]

On Hard Mode, if you beat Chronoforce first-round with Model A, you can beat ANYONE with Model A.  No real argument there.

Just to demonstrate the personal preference shpiel, I use Buckfire against Bifrost.  Slow as hell but it gets the job done from a safe distance.

[Flame]

I usually use Queenbee on him. hit the tail with a charge shot and its massive damage. In hard mode I dont use crononoforce simply because it wastes BME. BME I could  use for charge attacks.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Im looking for what gets the job done easier. L freezes rosepark if he's on the vines. you can then hit him twice with the halberd. 1 ground hit, 1 mid air hit. Rinse repeat.

If you can't beat Rospark or Tesrat with Zx I think you need a little more practice bro. :/

And on hard mode, trust me, you'll WANT to use the elements to your advantage.

Why bother? They do less damage than Zx does, all you get out of them is a stun which half the time the enemy ignores anyway.

[OmegaZ]

Why bother? They do less damage than Zx does, all you get out of them is a stun which half the time the enemy ignores anyway.

Yeah, don't bother with elements either, in ZX at least, usually I just spam triple attacks or spinning attacks, spam charge shots with A, or spam Model P or F shots.

[Flame]

Never said I couldnt do it with ZX. However, I like to exploit the fact that Rosepark falls so easily to L. as long as he's on the vine, the ice freezes and stuns him a bit. then, L lets you hit twice. one jumping slash, and one on ground one. after which Rosepark breaks out and goes towards you, and grabs onto another vine. jump over him and repeat.

I just prefer doing it that way.

[Zan]

Chronoforce - Model ZX/Queenbee

Tethys - model A/Buckfire +Chronoforce's time slow down

The most effective attack method is Chronoforce + Model L. And when that's not at your disposal, Chronoforce's mobility is a must in that battle.

Kaisemine - ZX

Shisas - ZX

Model F + (Chronoforce) + Rospark is far superior on Queenbee.

Really now, surely Model ZX is useful for every battle, but it's just plain shortsighted to list it as the best choice of attack. Indeed with someone like Chronoforce you might want to opt for someone completely different due to the range and attack angle; close quarter combat on him might be effective, but dangerous.

Likewise, there are plenty of ways to combat the Shisaroids, even the fact there's two of them (homing shot)or that there's vines (Rospark) can be used to your advantage.

Albert - A to break his shield, then Zx to do damage. I guess you can go H or Chronoforce if you find dashing under that spinning blade attack too hard. And maybe P for the two giant lasers attack.

You'd be surprised to find out how useful Chronoforce's shell is for blocking nearly all of Albert's attacks before his shield goes down. In the same way, Chronoforce can be used to also block attacks from Model F and perhaps others.