"What Are You Thinking Now?"

[Protoman Blues]

I guess that means we shouldn't think at all. That the very notion of trying to is wasted. Why then do we have sapience... eh, this isn't exactly what I came here to observe, since this kind of argument is horribly seedy and I do believe my kitty will state what I'm thinking anyway.

You're missing the point entirely. You're asking for a logical explanation to questions that by definition are NOT logical. You're asking for logical answers to emotional questions, questions that by definition are illogical. Why do you think Vulcans suppressed emotions and embraced logic?

What I gave you was the most logical answer there is, essentially. Whether you choose to agree with it or not is up to you. Whether you choose to agree with anything I say or not is up to you. That's what I'm trying to get across.

[Dexter Dexter]

Sometimes I wonder why I can't function on the same level as everybody else...

[Aresian]

You're missing the point entirely. You're asking for a logical explanation to questions that by definition are NOT logical. You're asking for logical answers to emotional questions, questions that by definition are illogical. Why do you think Vulcans suppressed emotions and embraced logic?

What I gave you was the most logical answer there is, essentially. Whether you choose to agree with it or not is up to you. Whether you choose to agree with anything I say or not is up to you. That's what I'm trying to get across.

OK, I'll take that for what it is. I still wish to know the thoughts of others. As well, I wish to hear how Transgenders themselves feel when faced with this question.

I do believe we have at least Mirby here.

[Nicole Claris]

I've also used this argument before. Basically everything is subjective so why discuss anything ever? The murderer thought he was justified, it is his reality and his beliefs, so he should not be punished. There are no absolutes ever. Everyone decides what is right for themselves. So of course there are no rights for anyone but yourself if you believe it is so. No reason to listen to the government. No personal responsibility because no one is rational and able to think for themselves. And of course we are not an ever learning people who learn that lighting isn't from a god. Hell making up the concept of a god, of morality, of being more than animals seems damn logical and thoughtful to me.

But hey, let's just assume everyone who gets a sexual assignment surgery doesn't think it out and is impulsive. Everyone who has religion is illogical as well!

I know that some strings of philosophy say everything is subjective. But that you choose to believe that is just as much of a belief.

I know I'm taking the 'slippery slope' argument but then again you've got your fallacies as well.

Also emotions have reasons. I am sad because my puppy died. Someone with bipolar have a reasons, even minor to some, to trigger their emotional shift.

There isn't an emotion for I want a [ray splasher] or I want my [ray splasher] cut off. You can't compare that to emotions. It's a thought process.

[Mirby]

It's a feeling. That's what it is. For me, it's a feeling of wrongness, that the [ray splasher] SHOULD NOT be there. The shell I reside in does not match my soul. That's one way I like to put that. All I'm trying to do (as are other transgenders) is to get the outside to match the inside, the body to match the brain. Because, honestly, it's much easier to do the former than it is to do the latter. And if one were to succeed in the latter (probably via total brainwashing, as that's the only way I can envision succeeding at that) it would be cruel to the person involved. For all we are trying to do is be truly happy.

And to be honest, now that I'm on hormones, I've never been happier in my life. And I know that after the operation, I'll be even happier than I am now, impossible though it may seem.

And PB, last time this was brought up regarding me, you locked the topic under the "no pride posts" banner. So... yeah.

[Yes, I remember]

[Acid]

Mystic Quest is out for the European Virtual Console.

That's one wasted weekend for me.

Awesome!

[Protoman Blues]

I've also used this argument before. Basically everything is subjective so why discuss anything ever? The murderer thought he was justified, it is his reality and his beliefs, so he should not be punished. There are no absolutes ever. Everyone decides what is right for themselves. So of course there are no rights for anyone but yourself if you believe it is so. No reason to listen to the government. No personal responsibility because no one is rational and able to think for themselves. And of course we are not an ever learning people who learn that lighting isn't from a god. Hell making up the concept of a god, of morality, of being more than animals seems damn logical and thoughtful to me.

If a person murders someone and believes he's justified, it's because it's what he believes, further proving my point. However, laws are in place to punish someone like that in an attempt to keep societal order. Whether one chooses to follow those laws and maintain order is entirely up to them. And actually, there are absolutes. Math has absolutes. 1+1=2. Ultimately though, you're missing my point. There are reasons to listen to the government. Whether or not you choose to is up to you. Most people are rational and able to think for themselves, however their thoughts and rationality are most likely based upon the experiences in their own life. And clearly, we are a learning people because if we weren't, we wouldn't even be having this discussion on the internet right now.

But hey, let's just assume everyone who gets a sexual assignment surgery doesn't think it out and is impulsive. Everyone who has religion is illogical as well!

LoL, I'd love to know where this is coming from.

I know that some strings of philosophy say everything is subjective. But that you choose to believe that is just as much of a belief.

......I'm pretty sure I said that.

I know I'm taking the 'slippery slope' argument but then again you've got your fallacies as well.

It's called being human.

Also emotions have reasons. I am sad because my puppy died. Someone with bipolar have a reasons, even minor to some, to trigger their emotional shift.

Emotions have reasons, yes. However, those reasons are not logical.

There isn't an emotion for I want a [ray splasher] or I want my [ray splasher] cut off. You can't compare that to emotions. It's a thought process.

Actually, you can very easily compare it to emotions. Because if you compare it to logic, then it makes no sense at all. Neither does being gay. Homosexuality is, by definition, a biological illogical. It goes against the biological reproductive purposes of human beings. But clearly it happens. If I'm correct, scientists are actually trying to explore a genetic reason as to why this takes place. In other words, they are trying to explore a logical, scientific reason for this. However, I doubt many RPMers are scientists in this regard, so I sincerely doubt you are going to find a logical, rational explanation for this.

Just to be clear, I have absolutely no issue with homosexuality or transgender in any way whatsoever.

It's a feeling. That's what it is. For me, it's a feeling of wrongness, that the [ray splasher] SHOULD NOT be there. The shell I reside in does not match my soul. That's one way I like to put that. All I'm trying to do (as are other transgenders) is to get the outside to match the inside, the body to match the brain. Because, honestly, it's much easier to do the former than it is to do the latter. And if one were to succeed in the latter (probably via total brainwashing, as that's the only way I can envision succeeding at that) it would be cruel to the person involved. For all we are trying to do is be truly happy.

And to be honest, now that I'm on hormones, I've never been happier in my life. And I know that after the operation, I'll be even happier than I am now, impossible though it may seem.

Hence my point. This isn't a logical response. It's emotional. The part I bolded is especially important.

And PB, last time this was brought up regarding me, you locked the topic under the "no pride posts" banner. So... yeah.

[Yes, I remember]

Nooooo, I locked that topic because there's a huge difference between coming out to people you trust and like, and creating an entire topic solely based entirely upon yourself and every single detail that you felt you needed to let out. Every. Single. Detail. Entirely. ABOUT. YOU! I also locked it for the same reason I tend to lock all these type of topics that are brought up here; because ultimately this is a forum about a video game character's universe. Yours wasn't the first, and it most likely will not be the last. Ares decided to keep this going. If anything, judging by the already emotional reactions to what I've brought up, it will end up like most other topics of this nature, I will soon put a stop to it.

But for now, I'm going to go eat.

[Nicole Claris]

You clearly took a post of me posting my opinion, ignored said opinion, (not even offering anything useful), lowered it to the most basic and inhuman level, then didn't get my sarcasm.

As I told Ares, I should know better.

[Mirby]

Emotional, yes. Now I'll post the logical response I told Ares in my channel.
[spoiler=Logical According to the Sheep God]
<Ares_Maxim> How do you I like to cross-dress to "I want to cut my [ray splasher] off" of course, bluntly put. The reason I ask is because it defies logic. The logic that being feminine has nothing to do with being a woman, as Kayla has said.
<Ares_Maxim> You technically only stated feelings of being feminine. Is it because of society's view? If cross-dressing alone was acceptable in all avenues. if being FEMININE wasn't a gender thing, do you think you'd feel the same?
<~Mirby> Yeah, it doesn't. But that wasn't the clincher. The clincher was seeing myself as a girl, with the boobs and the flatness down there
<Ares_Maxim> Note, I'm not attacking in anyway, just honest curiousity.
<~Mirby> That was what felt right to me
<~Mirby> And I know, that's why I'm answering
<~Mirby> The clincher was being referred to in the feminine (she, her, etc)
<~Mirby> That was what really made me realize this.
<~Mirby> It wasn't really the clothes or the makeup or any of that. It was the body appearance, and how I was referred to
<Ares_Maxim> *nods* I see. That logically makes sense to me.
[/spoiler]

Maybe that'll help answer a few things.

[Aresian]

And yet privately, I did get a logical and well thought out response from Mirby. I got an ANSWER.

Which was what we wanted. A question to answers. A straight answer, not a dismissive one. I didn't ask to be dismissed.

But maybe that was the mistake in another manner. Irregardless... a lot of what was said that you tried to fire at in your first portion, was argumentative rhetoric.

It was taking what you said and pointing out the absolution in it, despite the fallacious subjectivity.

Ergo, while we have things like feelings and emotions, we also have brains that produce logical responses. Thought processes. That is how laws are made, through logic and morality. Yes, belief is involved in all things, but that is not everything.

Being IN everything does not mean it IS everything. Oi... this is more than I wanted. Well, I got what I wanted out of it, proving that not everything is so... obnoxiously subjective. That is enough for me.

In short, what Archer said.

[Archer]

Wow. Accidentally deleted my post. That was stupid. I'll repeat myself.

post

Why are you arguing this anyway?

[Klavier Gavin]

And to be honest, now that I'm on hormones, I've never been happier in my life. And I know that after the operation, I'll be even happier than I am now, impossible though it may seem.

[Acid]

THIS THREAD IS GOING PLAAAAAAACEEEEEEEES

[Mirby]

Also, Acid.

Your last post here was epic.

[Solar]

@Klavier: That was uncalled for in a serious discussion...

Anyways, not gonna get myself involved with the discussion since I'm the last person that you should ever ask for a well thought logical opinion on something.

[Mirby]

I like your new avvy, Tai. /bias

[Solar]

Figured you would, and that certainly has nothing to do with you being the one that gave it to me

[Mirby]

Hence the /bias

[ViperAcidZX]

If Mordecai and Rigby from Regular Show learned how to do the Death Punch and hit fist for fist, I bet it'd go something like this...

[Shinigami No Tekken]

Man. I just can't focus on work any more. The heck is wrong with me.

[Archer]

Perhaps you have the attention span of a child?

Oh wait...

[Mirby]

I have a feeling that he skipped over the entire last page of this topic.

[Archer]

I bet he's like Flame; doesn't read the whole thing if there is too many posts.

[Dexter Dexter]

Man. I just can't focus on work any more. The heck is wrong with me.

Maybe you need more coffee, señor?

[Shinigami No Tekken]

Okay. I don't see where you all started popping this out of.

And I read the last page. I just DON'T CARE. Point made.