RockmanPM Forums

VixyNyan · **Reply #25 on:** October 24, 2009, 01:32:29 AM

Fan and the Constellation bosses wasn't mentioned in source books either. Not even R20.

Challenger from the Future was there tho.

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #26 on:** October 24, 2009, 03:43:53 AM

I wish they had mentioned it in R20. They had those old Nintendo Power scans of mine and the American cartoon series; why not go for the good stuff? RM Strategy has a few neat designs even if the game is incomplete.

As for the Japanese game canon, none of the licenced stuff counts. We had a whole discussion about canon I won't go into again. But, to summ up licenced games:

Game Gear Megaman
Megaman 2 and 3 Tiger
ALL the Taiwan-only games
Rockman and Forte WS

Oddly, R&F WS was made into canon, wasn't it? So, maybe if Capcom Japan ever bothered to look up some of these other games, just maybe, they'd be made into canon.

I can just picture Torchman looking up and wishing on a star for that to happen right now. You know, before he'd crushed by a giant meteor and all.

The Great Gonzo · **Reply #27 on:** October 24, 2009, 03:48:59 AM

I get the impression that Capcom is picky (and a bad feeling that the others weren't included because they weren't Japanese...).

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #28 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:10:30 AM

They included RM&F WS, how picky could they be? I mean, that's a pretty terrible game right there. Nintendo Power's in-house art isn't really great either.

I'd love to know what Inafune would say about theese games and their inclusion in the timeline. Even if he just cringed, that'd be worth it. But series creators aren't the same as fans; they don't see things as militantly.

Bag of Magic Food · **Reply #29 on:** October 24, 2009, 05:29:23 AM

Quote from: Gauntlet101010 on October 24, 2009, 03:43:53 AM

I can just picture Torchman looking up and wishing on a star for that to happen right now. You know, before he'd crushed by a giant meteor and all.

TorchMan thinks he's the counterpart to FireMan.exe from the anime.

Hypershell · **Reply #30 on:** October 24, 2009, 04:16:32 PM

Quote from: Gauntlet101010 on October 24, 2009, 03:43:53 AM

Oddly, R&F WS was made into canon, wasn't it?

IIRC it's referenced by ZX Advent. I'm not sure if that really makes them canonical or if it's just a fun easter egg. You have to bear in mind that this is the same game that established the 40-year-old gold/blue guy with a pistol on the U.S. MM1 box art as being a legendary superhero.

Past game characters appearing as cartoons/comic books in the distant future is nothing new (see Legends 2, Black Zero and much of the Classic-series cast), ZXA was just getting more obscure.

marshmallow man · **Reply #31 on:** October 24, 2009, 08:57:31 PM

Quote

Oddly, R&F WS was made into canon, wasn't it?

If you define canon as officially licensed, they always were. If you're talking about continuity, not especially. Appearing in R20 doesn't make the game any more J-continuity relevant than the mangas which were also showcased in the book.

Quote

IIRC it's referenced by ZX Advent. I'm not sure if that really makes them canonical or if it's just a fun easter egg. You have to bear in mind that this is the same game that established the 40-year-old gold/blue guy with a pistol on the U.S. MM1 box art as being a legendary superhero.

Past game characters appearing as cartoons/comic books in the distant future is nothing new (see Legends 2, Black Zero and much of the Classic-series cast), ZXA was just getting more obscure.

Right on. And using characters from the EXE universe as toys in the first ZX game shows that such omake examples need not be referencing historical figures from their world.

Bag of Magic Food · **Reply #32 on:** October 25, 2009, 12:01:04 AM

But if Exe is a fictional series in the original timeline, and X and Dash and the rest are fictional series in the Exe timeline, then one of their games referenced something real! Oh no!

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #33 on:** October 25, 2009, 02:19:43 AM

Quote from: marshmallow man on October 24, 2009, 08:57:31 PM

If you define canon as officially licensed, they always were. If you're talking about continuity, not especially. Appearing in R20 doesn't make the game any more J-continuity relevant than the mangas which were also showcased in the book.

Yeah, wrong word. Meant continuity.

I was under the impression that RF WS was referenced in a newer game. Not right?

Brahman · **Reply #34 on:** October 25, 2009, 04:33:31 AM

Quote from: Zan on October 24, 2009, 01:21:11 AM

Strategy is barely even considerable as a completed game from I've seen. Fan doesn't even have lines...

Strategy is a decent game for what it is (mainly just because it's a fresh idea for the series), but it does leave A LOT to be desired. There are a couple areas that I don't think can actually be beaten without cheating, Fan seems to have no real role in the game (other than to get the buyer's attention on the box), and often the game will crash while loading save files (they somehow get corrupted) and force you to start all over again.

I know that R&F WS was referenced in ZX: Advent, and I've heard its also in R20, so at least they acknowledge that the game exists. I guess some of these other licensed titles just don't interest them at all (or they realize they are pretty half-assed in most cases).

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #35 on:** October 25, 2009, 04:44:31 AM

Exactly what was the reference in ZX Advent?

I'm convinced Rockman Strategy is an unfinished game. Totally convinced. It seems fun if you can understand it (and play the music). I can't so it's kinda boring. Did you come upon the glitch with Capricorn that has him be totally invincible to all attacks (or at least take only one damage to anything)?

Honestly, I don't think Capcom has licenced games on the mind when they're outside of their region. I think they'd care, if they remembered them. Maybe not Megaman PC, but probably Rockman Strategy at least. Technically, they didn't even have any art for the WS games themselves; they got their sprites from Sprites INC just as they got the Nintendo Power stuff from me. So don't think it's inclusion in R20 is all that special, they didn't go out of their way to contact Bandai or anything.

Brahman · **Reply #36 on:** October 25, 2009, 04:56:09 AM

Quote from: Gauntlet101010 on October 25, 2009, 04:44:31 AM

Exactly what was the reference in ZX Advent?

I'm convinced Rockman Strategy is an unfinished game. Totally convinced. It seems fun if you can understand it (and play the music). I can't so it's kinda boring. Did you come upon the glitch with Capricorn that has him be totally invincible to all attacks (or at least take only one damage to anything)?

Honestly, I don't think Capcom has licenced games on the mind when they're outside of their region. I think they'd care, if they remembered them. Maybe not Megaman PC, but probably Rockman Strategy at least. Technically, they didn't even have any art for the WS games themselves; they got their sprites from Sprites INC just as they got the Nintendo Power stuff from me. So don't think it's inclusion in R20 is all that special, they didn't go out of their way to contact Bandai or anything.

Ha! I doubt they contacted Bandai either. I think it was mainly just a licensed game that had an okay story, so it may have been worth referencing in R20.

In ZX: Advent, you have a side-quest or two that ask you to collect some comic books, and I know one is about Konro Man (a walking stove) and the other is about the Clock Men. There are probably pictures of these somewhere online, maybe at the MMKB or something.

I have had that glitch occur with Capricorn, and actually most all of the bosses are way too strong and can kill you in 1 or 2 moves. The only way I managed to beat most of them was to have one character I didn't care about go against it and be killed, but in the process requiring the boss to use all its attack points. Then, I'd have Rock or another powerful character finish it off while it was unable to attack with it's weapon.

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #37 on:** October 25, 2009, 05:22:47 AM

RM Strategy is odd in that you have to buy your level ups and you don't automatically do so. Since I couldn't even read it, I just used the Cheat-O-Matic to keep MM at full health (and finding his health number was tricky, I tells ya!) and "freezing" the timer. But they even kill you with the powerups you buy?

So it's a comic in XZ Advent. Hm. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of it's continuity, but it shows that capcom is willing to accept it ... which is probably as good as we'll get, I guess.

I think they'd have added RMS and the PC games for the same reason they have the odd box art and the Nintendo Power art: it's of interest to the Japanese fans. I don't think it has to do with quality ... the story of RF WS isn't all that great either (it's like MM forgot who Quint was all of a sudden), but that game is referenced on every single site in the Japanese fanbase. It's very well known there.

marshmallow man · **Reply #38 on:** October 25, 2009, 06:08:35 AM

Quote

Technically, they didn't even have any art for the WS games themselves; they got their sprites from Sprites INC just as they got the Nintendo Power stuff from me. So don't think it's inclusion in R20 is all that special, they didn't go out of their way to contact Bandai or anything.

The WS game didn't have any pubished art outside what appeared in the game itself in sprite form. The cover art is borrowed and no original art is featured on the box or manual. There should be production sketches somewhere, but Capcom doesn't have them.

I think Ariga said on his blog back when they were working on the book that they couldn't get permission from Bandai to reprint Mega Mission card images, which is why only a few concept art designs from that appear. If RFWS had art, they probably wouldn't have permission to use that either. I'm not sure why the sprites were allowed to be printed in that case, though.

Quote

So it's a comic in XZ Advent.

Just a few of the boss characters have become manga heroes, not the entire game itself. There was also a slight reference in the first ZX game, Sardine talks about a toy (the older guardian mechanic?) made for him that looks like a stove with legs, a reference to Conroman. He hated the toy and doesn't play with it however.

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #39 on:** October 25, 2009, 06:30:45 AM

Now that's interesting. I figured there was no official published art of those guys (I was thinking more of production sketches, maybe even something colored), but I didn't figure that Bandai might say no to republishing things like the Mega Mission cards (or at least some of them) for R20.

Maybe the sprites were a different matter? They must be, I guess.

Brahman · **Reply #40 on:** October 26, 2009, 05:40:03 PM

Quote from: Gauntlet101010 on October 25, 2009, 05:22:47 AM

RM Strategy is odd in that you have to buy your level ups and you don't automatically do so. Since I couldn't even read it, I just used the Cheat-O-Matic to keep MM at full health (and finding his health number was tricky, I tells ya!) and "freezing" the timer. But they even kill you with the powerups you buy?

So it's a comic in XZ Advent. Hm. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of it's continuity, but it shows that capcom is willing to accept it ... which is probably as good as we'll get, I guess.

I think they'd have added RMS and the PC games for the same reason they have the odd box art and the Nintendo Power art: it's of interest to the Japanese fans. I don't think it has to do with quality ... the story of RF WS isn't all that great either (it's like MM forgot who Quint was all of a sudden), but that game is referenced on every single site in the Japanese fanbase. It's very well known there.

I always thought that RFWS was a shitty game, but that its story was half-way decent. It turns out that these robots who are attacking Symphony City come from the time-period that Wily traveled to in order to learn from their technology and capture the disarmed Rock. However, "R-Shadow" isn't Quint, although he tells Rock that he is at some point. It turns out, in the end, that he was simply a robot Wily built using future technology, but that he was discarded and Wily instead simply captured Rock and turned him into Quint. If nothing else, this tells us that come mid-century (204X or 205X) Rock is disarmed and living a somewhat peaceful life.

shadowman · **Reply #41 on:** October 27, 2009, 10:24:47 AM

How do you recruit/unlock Fan in RM Strategy? I managed to play through the entire game without getting him. The game didn't seem that hard once you get used to the leveling system, the equipment menu's were a little tough to understand but I somehow managed to muddle through. Capricorn did seem completely overpowered though, so I just bought a load of "bomb" items so I could damage him without even fighting him!

Keno · **Reply #42 on:** October 27, 2009, 06:43:46 PM

Quote from: Gauntlet101010 on October 25, 2009, 06:30:45 AM

Maybe the sprites were a different matter? They must be, I guess.

It's probably a different legal matter, too. I bet CoJ owns those sprites.

Quote from: Brahman on October 26, 2009, 05:40:03 PM

If nothing else, this tells us that come mid-century (204X or 205X) Rock is disarmed and living a somewhat peaceful life.

Or it's an alternative future.

Zan · **Reply #43 on:** October 27, 2009, 08:23:36 PM

We kind of already knew that Rock was disarmed and living peacefully in Quint's future. The WS game just went with what World2 said. From that same story, we knew Wily had retired, but was tricked by his past self into helping him kidnap Rock. What the WS game adds to this whole story is that Wily did not continue his evil ways, Rockman Shadow destroyed that future and warriors that could beat him only existed in the past.

I think the game has a pretty nice plot. You just need to realize that Rockman Shadow is considerably different from Quint, despite the many similarities. I just think the game could have done without the sudden flashback art shift, and that CompassMan could have gotten more meaningful lines.

Bag of Magic Food · **Reply #44 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:29:46 AM

If they wanted a flashback art shift, they should have ripped the original sprites!

Gauntlet101010 · **Reply #45 on:** October 28, 2009, 05:38:49 AM

Maybe it has something to do with copyright more than them being idiots, actually. I mean ... obviously they were looking at it when they were doing the game.

Keno · **Reply #46 on:** October 28, 2009, 06:45:04 AM

Or it would be considered unprofessional to use then archaic sprites. They were trying to sell, & cutting edge sprites sold.

Brahman · **Reply #47 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:05:23 PM

Quote from: Zan on October 27, 2009, 08:23:36 PM

We kind of already knew that Rock was disarmed and living peacefully in Quint's future. The WS game just went with what World2 said. From that same story, we knew Wily had retired, but was tricked by his past self into helping him kidnap Rock. What the WS game adds to this whole story is that Wily did not continue his evil ways, Rockman Shadow destroyed that future and warriors that could beat him only existed in the past.

I think the game has a pretty nice plot. You just need to realize that Rockman Shadow is considerably different from Quint, despite the many similarities. I just think the game could have done without the sudden flashback art shift, and that CompassMan could have gotten more meaningful lines.

Interesting. You know, I really don't remember CompassMan (or Compas Man?) having any lines in the game, but then again, it's been a long time since I've played it. What exactly does he say? And, I also wondered what his role was in the game, considering he didn't give you a weapon or anything.

Zan · **Reply #48 on:** October 28, 2009, 07:32:38 PM

FORTE: Bothersome bastards! If you don't want to be scrap get the hell out of my way! I just want to meet that black Rockman only!

ROCKMAN: Don't get in my way! Please, I want you to let me pass here. I just want to meet and talk with Shadow.

COMPASSMAN: My name is Compassman; Rockman Shadow's friend. After this stage is Shadow's castle. But, I won't let you get past here. Prepare for me to be your enemy from now. You'd better fight for your life if you expect to live.

---

The basic idea CompassMan seems to convey is that the Dimensions are somewhat Rockman Shadow's friends, but that only raises more questions than answers in regards to Rockman Shadow's motives. Between all the lies he's told the player, it's certainly interesting to consider how much his forces knew of the truth.

Bag of Magic Food · **Reply #49 on:** October 28, 2009, 10:18:45 PM

Actually, what really bothered me about the sprites was how the more humanoid characters like CompassMan and RockMan Shadow were drawn in a very different style from RockMan and Forte. If RockMan Shadow is a copy of a future RockMan, then shouldn't his body type match the RockMan you play as a little better?

News

The PC games