Topic: Recommendations for the Wii

[Jericho]

Protip - The secret best hilarity match is All Luigi, Bumpers, Rolling Crates and Smash Balls on High, 2.0 Damage & Flat Zone 2. I have a replay to show off in the future of the prototype to this idea that I got from fighting Lou & PB one night.

[STM]

Isn't that what we do? Why not play with us more often?

My TV's still dead and the EPT (estimated purchase time) for a new one is quite a ways away. Pretty much, this limits me to stealing one from around the house for a little bit because moving the console itself would mean I'd have to move a lot of wires. The main bulk of my gaming's been on portables, which is why I've been able to dedicate to much time to Star Force 3.

I admit there are times when I play Yoshi almost exclusively (hey, he's my best, that's all there is to it), but otherwise, you're preaching to the choir.  The more chaos, the better.  'maru didn't give me the title of Bob-omb Cheating Bastard for nothing.

Once in a while I flip it to 15-Stock 2.0 Damage, and then things really get kicking.

Well, I don't mean a person picks the same character... that's expected. I don't expect people to know all 35 people on the roster. Speaking in general online and offline, you usually see a major bulk of Metaknights, Snakes, Pits, Marths and Ikes with dashings or very few of others, since a lot of people seem to follow "tier listings" to heart. I won't hide that I primarily play as Sonic despite all of his alleged shortcomings because I love how versatile and fluid he is compared to others.

[Tickle Buffalo]

Speaking in general online and offline, you usually see a major bulk of Metaknights, Snakes, Pits, Marths and Ikes with dashings or very few of others, since a lot of people seem to follow "tier listings" to heart.

Pit and Ike are high tier now?

[Jericho]

It really seems to go back and forth with them, but geez, Ike is a monster. Even more so when folks play the kick around game and sneak in with a front tilt or smash.

Also, Lucas for high tier.

[Protoman Blues]

When Jigglypuff is rated higher than Captain Falcon, then something's clearly wrong with that list.

[STM]

It's such a worthless list, yet, much like Smogon, people subscribe to it like it's a [tornado fang]ing bible.

[Tickle Buffalo]

But you said you frequently saw Pit and Ike, who aren't all that high.

Do people follow it or not?

[Hypershell]

Well, I don't mean a person picks the same character... that's expected. I don't expect people to know all 35 people on the roster. Speaking in general online and offline, you usually see a major bulk of Metaknights, Snakes, Pits, Marths and Ikes with dashings or very few of others, since a lot of people seem to follow "tier listings" to heart. I won't hide that I primarily play as Sonic despite all of his alleged shortcomings because I love how versatile and fluid he is compared to others.

I actually don't see a lot of Metaknights, and I can tell you personally that he and Dedede are my two worst characters.  Brawl's pretty much convinced me that the tier list is crap.

I do see a lot of Snake, though.  He's not my best either, but I can at least see how he can be deadly.

[STM]

His moves have a ton of priority... pretty much near broken levels.

As for Pit and Ike, Pit's got some pretty serious combo potential and a person that can master his flying ability and his up-b can pretty much stall out a whole match or pursue someone all over the map, so I do see him being used quite a bit. Ike... well, come on, the guy can K.O. at 40% on Final Destination and despite being slow as molasses, he's a popular pick for newer players or people who feel like [tornado fang]ing around with other players.

[Protoman Blues]

STM, we both know that Sonic is the best!   

[STM]

Nothing beats obnoxious taunting~

[Hypershell]

So very true.  Which probably explains why Peach and Sonic are my usual alternates (not to mention why Daisy needs to be in the game).

[Pringer X]

It's such a worthless list, yet, much like Smogon, people subscribe to it like it's a [tornado fang]ing bible.

At least Smogon's tier list makes sense. Pokemon's nothing but numbers and elements, Brawl is too random. Marth may not outreach Meta Knight, but Fox, Falco, and Wolf sure as hell do. "Oh no, my basic attack can't hit him, if only I had a laser gun---oh wait, I totally have I laser gun *blamo*". Not to mention competitive Smash players leave items out, which completely takes the game from a party-fighting game, to a fighting game with platforms. At least smogon keeps the items and only bans certain combinations, which I don't think go past the double digits, if they're even higher than 3.

So very true.  Which probably explains why Peach and Sonic are my usual alternates (not to mention why Daisy needs to be in the game).

I saw a guy murder people with Peach, and he was going up against Marth as well O.o Granted this was back in Melee, the dude didn't lose a single life.

Nothing beats obnoxious taunting~

HIIIIIII!

[STM]

Well, if I remember from the Melee scene, Peach was pretty low on the list until someone found out how nasty she can really get (bow chicka bow wow) and she suddenly skyrocketed.

Also, yeah, I will agree Smogon's rules do give other Pokemon a chance, but I don't like how most people online want them to be the end-all be-all of how the game is played. Would it kill you to just have a no holds barred exhibition match once in a while?

[Protoman Blues]

Well, if I remember from the Melee scene, Peach was pretty low on the list until someone found out how nasty she can really get (bow chicka bow wow) and she suddenly skyrocketed.

I remember I started using Peach simply because of the "Ohhhhhhh, Did I Win?" SMUG taunt.  As I learned her more, I realized how deadly she truly was, with her Air Forward Smash, devastating Down Smash, and her Bitchslap grab.  She became my 2nd best character in Melee, behind Fox.  When I was at PAX in 07, during the warm up matches before the Tourney began, I had several people tell me that I was the best Peach player they've ever seen.

[Hypershell]

Too bad I don't get to those tournaments (well, one for Brawl's launch, but the physics adjusting bit me in the ass completely).  I'd like to show some experienced players in-person what a Yoshi player can do.

a fighting game with platforms.

And they'd have it without that except that Final Destination has those hooks to get caught in underneath the ledges.  Apparently facing the consequences of incorrect positioning is considered unfair.  Go figure.

At least smogon keeps the items and only bans certain combinations

The "standard" Pokemon fan tournament rules ban anything considered "luck-based", including all evasion/accuracy moves and items.  They also have an "all or none" attitude regarding the use of Uber Pokemon, and are extremely inflexible about their "Sleep clause", to the point of status-absorption being a frequent topic.  They completely ignore Double Battles and they fear Wobbuffet like anthrax.  Despite all of these standards they do not regulate same-Hold-Item spamming.  Oh yeah, and they revolve around Stealth Rock (ludicrously broken; no passive damage should EVER cost any Pokemon half its HP in one shot).

[Pringer X]

The "standard" Pokemon fan tournament rules ban anything considered "luck-based", including all evasion/accuracy moves and items.  They also have an "all or none" attitude regarding the use of Uber Pokemon, and are extremely inflexible about their "Sleep clause", to the point of status-absorption being a frequent topic.  They completely ignore Double Battles and they fear Wobbuffet like anthrax.  Despite all of these standards they do not regulate same-Hold-Item spamming.  Oh yeah, and they revolve around Stealth Rock (ludicrously broken; no passive damage should EVER cost any Pokemon half its HP in one shot).

Still better than the Brawl competitive players, a lot of the things on the ban list make sense. The only one I have a real problem with is Double Battles, because that's an area that if utilized right, would be a great strategy making play ground. The Pokemon competitive area does have it's faults, but it's at least an area that has more freedom than Brawl's. Why the hell should I care about priority? So what if Meta Knight's sword outreaches King Dedede's hammer, or Kirby's punches, those two can toss Waddle-Dee's or Final Cutter the mofo to death. The game is too varied to really take into account all of the stats. If Pokemon was made into a similar game like Brawl, I highly doubt I'd give two shits about the tiers in that game. The whole knowledge of frames can help, but sometimes, that can only get you so much. I remember one match against someone on here where I hit them up in the sky on Dreamland, they were about to go past the blast line, and a brick came down and landed on his head, actually saving him. It's that kind of randomness that needs to be multiplied so that the game is more about fun.

[Hypershell]

I see what you're saying, and I agree with you on Brawl's randomness.  The variety is what makes it fun, and trying to kill that variety results in a niche, not in general skill as many believe.

With Pokemon, though, you'd be surprised how a well-utilized underpowered team can screw you over.  Lots of Pokemon who lack raw stats have some other trick up their sleeve.  But a lot of this is more workable in Doubles, which we both agree, the competitive scene makes the mistake of ignoring.

If you ask them they'll say it's because Doubles are all about Rain Dance and Explosion.

[STM]

Has anyone responded to that downplaying by making a doubles division guideline akin to Smogon or have none just caught on? Doubles certainly seems like a place where all hell can break loose.

[Hypershell]

None caught on to my knowledge.  It's been a while since most of my competitive reading, but most Pokemon reviews I see still discuss Doubles as an afterthought if at all.  Cherrim kinda forces the Smogon reviewers to do so since it's worthless otherwise.

[Protoman Blues]

Listen, [tornado fang] tiers in Pokemon.  If I want to battle with my LVL100 Swaggerin' Cyndaquil, then that's what I'm gonna do!

[Hypershell]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case you're preaching to the choir.  My team, which incidentally beat Masters Set 8 in PBR, spans all the way from Uber to Never Used.

I'm not kidding, Lapras is considered NU.  Bastards.

[Pringer X]

I can't speak for anyone else, but in my case you're preaching to the choir.  My team, which incidentally beat Masters Set 8 in PBR, spans all the way from Uber to Never Used.  I'm not kidding, Lapras is considered NU.

Bastards.

Eh, I only get nitpicky about tiers when ubers are brought in. Some UU or NU Pokemon do a great job in the OU, and hell, using certain UU or NU Pokemon do a great job in Ubers. Electrode is the fastest taunter in the game, barring the uber territory, and Parasect apparently rocks teh socks in Ubers as well.

[Acid]

I think Sub Tank wanted to do  a Bidoof-only run.

Dunno what happened to that.

[STM]

I tried in Platinum. It got very hard to gain wins around the fighting-type gym.