The Z Buster

[Flame]

I know that, I've done it myself several times.  Seems like odd behavior for a bug, though, to produce a new "attack" like that.

thats why its a bug. its odd. Like I said, it probably reads the plasma bubble but mixes up the sprite, and uses Lifesaver instead.

[Hypershell]

By "odd" I meant it seems oddly coherent for a bug.  To get Lifesaver's sprite instead of a bunch of garbage.  I know jack [parasitic bomb] about programming and even I'm curious is to how that happens.

[Align]

Well if it refers to each frame by an ID (which is sensible) it would just have to hiccup and change that number to get a completely different sprite. Or someone was playing around with pointers...

[Hypershell]

Would whether or not it dissipates be dictated by what frames it finds, though?  If it's finding the wrong frames for plasma ball and/or wall impact, shouldn't it disappear after a set number of frames have passed?  Or is the fact that Lifesaver doesn't animate locking it into place?

(I'm sure we're boring the hell out of other readers)

[Zan]

Just to note, it doesn't happen at all in the PC version.

[Align]

It makes sense that they would fix bugs, so it might not mean anything.
Not dissipating could be that it's supposed to go frame 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-gone, and without frames 2-3 it never reaches gone. Odd way of doing it, but... possible.

[Flame]

Plus Lifesavors sprite is triggered to dissapear only by the dialoge box closing and the battle starting, which may also affect it. he is meant to interact with the dialogue exchange on ly, therefore, in any other setting, he locks and stays there.

[Hypershell]

Plus Lifesavors sprite is triggered to dissapear only by the dialoge box closing and the battle starting, which may also affect it. he is meant to interact with the dialogue exchange on ly, therefore, in any other setting, he locks and stays there.

That was my thought.

[Flame]

Its the most Feasible explanation thus far anyway.

[Nexus]

Back in regards to the Z-Buster thing this topic is all about; personally I find that maybe there doesn't need to be an "explanation" for his lack of buster usage in X4, X7-8, and both Xtreme games. He was meant to play differently from X from the get-go after MMX3, so it's not story logic but game design logic instead. Although the dual/fixed Z-Buster inconsistency in X5 was nothing short of laziness.

Nothing implies the Z-Buster(s) was removed, replaced, or otherwise. It's merely a game design choice in the matter that X is the ranged fighter, and Zero is the close-combat fighter. The way the Z-Buster operates in X5-6 is a good example of the focus on his saber rather than his buster.

And in the transition to the Zero series, if you really want to try and tie everything together bit for bit, maybe his "body change" (aka his 'new' thong body design) disposed of the buster(s). Maybe it was never factored in and it's just all artstyle. It's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already), and i'm just basing this off my own theories as well as certain others and what i've read over the years.

Maybe we really do need official Capcom word, if they're willing to even reveal anything. 

[Zan]

It's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already),

http://geocities.com/protozantetsu/RockResources/MMZOCW.txt

But, MMZOCW doesn't say anything about the design change. Still, it is a nice read.

Maybe it was never factored in and it's just all artstyle.

There has been a statement from Inafune that all Repliroids were redesigned to reflect the upgrading in technology.  Furthermore, XCM character designers designed X's new armor with the idea that the timeframe is closer to the ZERO-series. Finally, when Phoenix Magnion from ZERO2 summons memories of four X-series characters, they appear unchanged in design.

But not just that, the bustershot can't be just artstyle, it has specific explanations for it being different and arm mounted busters have also appeared within the same games.

[Fxeni]

For the Lifesaver thing, it has to do with the dialogue before the fight. It has a set ID in X's sprite frames which is used for the conversaion, but a programming error calls it up when the player cancels out his attack. Little glitch they let by.

[Hypershell]

Nothing implies the Z-Buster(s) was removed

Command Mission and MMZ want a word with you.

maybe his "body change" (aka his 'new' thong body design) disposed of the buster(s).

The redesign is solely art style and not a canonical switch (see X6's Zero ending; that's the body that becomes Omega).  The only body-change is to the copy body after Omega's creation.  If that were any explanation then Omega would have an arm-mounted buster.

It's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already)

Get equipped with it, they (eventually) printed it in english.
http://www.amazon.com/Megaman-Zero-Official-Complete-Works/dp/1897376014/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247846413&sr=8-1

Maybe we really do need official Capcom word, if they're willing to even reveal anything.  

I'm quite confident they would have none, the same as Inti has no explanation whatsoever for the Guardian art in Physis.

There has been a statement from Inafune that all Repliroids were redesigned to reflect the upgrading in technology.

There is a somewhat noticeable difference in that the Resistance wears clothing.  Zero appears to be sticking with an armor design, although the fact that Ciel wears headgear and that X, Zero, and the Guardians have a vest shpiel going on does blur the line a little.  But the fact that Reploids progress is only natural, especially considering Reploid kids have been around for a while.

Furthermore, XCM character designers designed X's new armor with the idea that the timeframe is closer to the ZERO-series.

X's design is stated to be a new armor within the storyline, however, Zero and Axl are unchanged in appearance.

Finally, when Phoenix Magnion from ZERO2 summons memories of four X-series characters, they appear unchanged in design.

Bear in mind that is a cameo appearance with no dialogue to introduce them.  To redesign them would defeat the point of the cameo.  There are already enough lunatics who don't recognize Agile when they see him.

[Zan]

The redesign is solely art style and not a canonical switch (see X6's Zero ending; that's the body that becomes Omega). 

Depends. Between X6 and Omega, we have both a bustershot and Z-saber to account for that are somewhat canonically different from how Zero was in X6.

Beside obvious image retcon, a post seal change should not be left out of the equation.

I'm quite confident they would have none, the same as Inti has no explanation whatsoever for the Guardian art in Physis.

I dunno, they seem quite willing to make "complicated explanations real fast."

Also, Vile's Incident isn't Physis. Splitting hairs.

X's design is stated to be a new armor within the storyline, however, Zero and Axl are unchanged in appearance.

But the fact remains that X's armor is designed the way it is, because the timeline is closer to the ZERO-series. That tells us there are somewhat canon changes between X and ZERO. Between X's armor and the ZERO-series, the biggest similarities lie with the style of legs.

[Hypershell]

Depends. Between X6 and Omega, we have both a bustershot and Z-saber to account for that are somewhat canonically different from how Zero was in X6.

Beside obvious image retcon, a post seal change should not be left out of the equation.

Right.  Because one cannot possibly study the Sigma Virus without updating the host's armor as fashion dictates.  X6's ending was made with the full knowledge that MMZ was on the way, they could have cleared everything, or done a shadowy silhouette for Zero, either one would have settled the matter and at the same time made things clearer for the dingbats who don't understand the concept of a sneak peek (which I admit is easy to miss first-time, but viewing it now in retrospect a lot of folks still don't put it together).  They didn't.

The Z-Buster is not seen in the X6 ending, so the Buster Shot point is irrelevant.  It's never seen when Zero isn't using it, despite concept art showing that it should be stored on his back.  Omega's Z-Saber does not function with alternate modes as Zero's does (and even if it did, there's X7's alternate weapons to consider), so the double-ended point is moot.  That leaves only chargeability and blade color, neither of which need to result in a visible change in the hilt (otherwise Shadow Armor has some 'splainin to do).

I know leg holsters are a frequent point of contention, but the reality is that both X and Zero series designs are symmetrical in their Z-Saber holds.  We just only ever saw one Z-Saber over the course of the X-series, but there's no difference between the left and right sides of Zero's "backpack".

If there was an armor redesign it is current only with Elf Wars and then left untouched the following century.  The fact that Inti considered and rejected the old Zero design for Omega says something, as well.  They had to make new sprites for him anyway, so there's no real reason not to.

So, both Capcom and Inti had the chance to establish a canon armor change, and neither did.  X6's ending can't be dismissed as retconned out unless something exists to retcon it.  At current, nothing does.  And Inti had the chance to go there and refused.

Also, Vile's Incident isn't Physis. Splitting hairs.

Splitting hairs indeed.  It was included with Physis.  If I ever refer to the "ZXA Tunes mouse pad", I don't think anyone would believe that a mouse pad was somehow stored on a CD.

But the fact remains that X's armor is designed the way it is, because the timeline is closer to the ZERO-series. That tells us there are somewhat canon changes between X and ZERO. Between X's armor and the ZERO-series, the biggest similarities lie with the style of legs.

If by "closer" you mean some developer thought XCM actually was the Zero-series timeframe, from what you told me in AIM (feel free to get me an actual source/quote if you find it).  Developer confusion =/= canon, otherwise the remaining three Guardians are still kicking.  It could be the beginning, but such an instance needs further building in order to be validated, or else it means nothing.

Canon changes DID happen in arsenal.  The Z-Saber was enhanced, the Buster Shot was picked up at some point.  Body design is another matter.

[Flame]

Plus the saber X gave Zero was Zero's... there's nothing to say that Omega didn't have a saber, and Vile gave him  a new one. If we go with the theory that Zero at some point had the Buster outright removed from himself, then the Omega Body would not have one, and therefore, Vile would need to give him something, and uses the same fashion of Handgun that Milan used and was passed on to Zero, maybe because of that model's  compatibility with the Saber.

[Zan]

Plus the saber X gave Zero was Zero's... there's nothing to say that Omega didn't have a saber, and Vile gave him  a new one.

We don't know which Saber X gave Zero. Also, Zero sealed himself with the Z-saber on his back, and there clearly was information available on Zero's saber at the Forgotten Laboratory. How it all went down is anyone's guess.

Vile would need to give him something, and uses the same fashion of Handgun that Milan used and was passed on to Zero, maybe because of that model's  compatibility with the Saber.

How does Dr. Vile give Omega anything of the sort when the armor hasn't been removed for over a century? Conveniently place it on the floor of the Forgotten Lab? Seeing as how it's designed to work with the Z-saber. I'd sooner think that Zero and therefore Omega used the same type of handgun in the past.

Of course, the entire Forgotten Laboratory being in ZERO3 is nothing short of a plot hole, what with being destroyed in the Ganeshariff mission, and Zero having the Triple Rod and Shield Boomerang regardless of that fact.

[Thanatos-Zero]

How does Dr. Vile give Omega anything of the sort when the armor hasn't been removed for over a century? Conveniently place it on the floor of the Forgotten Lab? Seeing as how it's designed to work with the Z-saber. I'd sooner think that Zero and therefore Omega used the same type of handgun in the past.

So the question is now, when did Zero decide to drop his armcannons in favor for a bustershot? Maybe the lack of Axl in the Zero Series is the key for this mystery. I could be that Axl was killed and Zero decided to use his guns as a memento on him.

[Flame]

Zero isn't the type for wishy washy feelings like that. Axl would be honored as felled in the line of duty, avenged, and that's it.

[Zan]

So the question is now, when did Zero decide to drop his armcannons in favor for a bustershot? Maybe the lack of Axl in the Zero Series is the key for this mystery. I could be that Axl was killed and Zero decided to use his guns as a memento on him.

But there's no connection between the two weapons. Axl has two guns, if not more. Zero has one that can interact with his Z-saber.

[Blackhook]

The key question is:
WHAT HAPPENED TO AXL BETWEEN THE X AND ZERO SERIES? (Caps off)
Unless inti and Capcom gives a statement we won´t get an answer

[Thanatos-Zero]

The key question is:
WHAT HAPPENED TO AXL BETWEEN THE X AND ZERO SERIES? (Caps off)
Unless inti and Capcom gives a statement we won´t get an answer

Not in this topic my friend, so why don´t go you ahead and open such a thread?

[Hypershell]

Well, Axl not being in the Zero series is kind of to be expected, since Z1 predates X7.  But I'm surprised there was no cameo appearance in an Elf Wars flashback or anything.  Maybe that all has to do with Inti not wanting to touch the art style change.  *shrugs*

We don't know which Saber X gave Zero. Also, Zero sealed himself with the Z-saber on his back, and there clearly was information available on Zero's saber at the Forgotten Laboratory. How it all went down is anyone's guess.

In X6.  Retroactively that no longer applies to Z1's awakening, due to Telos, Elf Wars, and all that jazz.

[Acid]

Axl has a cameo as Model A.

[Hypershell]

We were talking about Zero, not ZX.