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Blackhook · **Reply #550 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:10:02 PM

...and everything that came after. Seriously Marluxia seemed more straight than him

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #551 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:15:54 PM

Quote from: Talyn on June 18, 2010, 10:05:46 PM

Okay, just asking. They did kinda gay him up in 2.

Not just him. Everything.

I mean, what did the organization did that was so evil? Ooooh, they want hearts of their own because they can't feel. SO EVIL. Ooooh, they're manipulating Sora into saving the worlds from heartless, something he'd most probably do anyway. SOOOO EVIL AND DIABOLICAL. Individual members were doing evil manipulative stuff, but it didn't make any sense why they did that.

The whole plot makes no sense. And people just come up to Sora and go "MEN IN BLACK COATS. EVIL. MUST DESTROY." Even Haloween Town's whole quest is simply based on Maleficent "trying to cause mischief once more". At least KH1 had a straight plan, an organization at the core that made sense, was Disney-based, and had actual perceptive goals. And it was a fun game that although a bit dark, it never stopped being an adventure with children going around and having fun through Disney worlds. Then in comes KH2 and starts being grimdark and retconning EVERYTHING.

Mirby · **Reply #552 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:24:55 PM

I think Square got the deal with Disney and made a Disney-like storyline. After that, they could keep the characters and go their own way. So they went the way they did; I don't like the story at all. In fact, I'll watch the story so I know what's going on, but generally I'll skip it if I can read what happened in the Journal or something. Part of my knowledge-seeking, I guess.

I mainly play it for the gameplay; it's pretty fun.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #553 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:27:24 PM

Quote from: Talyn on June 18, 2010, 10:24:55 PM

I think Square got the deal with Disney and made a Disney-like storyline. After that, they could keep the characters and go their own way. So they went the way they did; I don't like the story at all. In fact, I'll watch the story so I know what's going on, but generally I'll skip it if I can read what happened in the Journal or something. Part of my knowledge-seeking, I guess.

I mainly play it for the gameplay; it's pretty fun.

The gameplay in the main titles and Birth By Sleep has always been fun. But I'm tired of the bullshit they're pulling with the story, which has it becoming Nomura's own personal fapfest. He's [speed burner]ing all over the characters, making them become more of his own personal stereotypes, and getting everything to be some kind of DBZ-hybrid where nobody dies, souls have like... 4 or 5 different ways to go, and it obeys every single anime cliché.

Mirby · **Reply #554 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:32:39 PM

Which is why more and more I'm ignoring the story.

Although Christopher Lee does do the voice of DiZ which is cool.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #555 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:35:43 PM

Quote from: Talyn on June 18, 2010, 10:32:39 PM

Which is why more and more I'm ignoring the story.

Although Christopher Lee does do the voice of DiZ which is cool.

...and Leonard Nimoy does Master Xehanort's voice. Which is awesome.

Mirby · **Reply #556 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:37:44 PM

It is. Quite awesome, actually.

Blackhook · **Reply #557 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:39:36 PM

Oh yeah, Xehanort..apparently he´s the Villain in all games..altough he´s not

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #558 on:** June 18, 2010, 10:52:08 PM

Quote from: Blackhook on June 18, 2010, 10:39:36 PM

Oh yeah, Xehanort..apparently he´s the Villain in all games..altough he´s not

I'm betting that in the end, he turns out to be good or some inunderstandable crap.

The Drunken Dishwasher · **Reply #559 on:** June 18, 2010, 11:40:04 PM

Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on June 18, 2010, 03:58:13 PM

Retconning is good? Taking facts you put in your first games and making them completely different in the current ones is good?

And frankly, first game was about something COMPLETELY different from the second one... it's like they took a whole different story and just crammed it in there.

that's the thing. i'm one of those fools that didn't find anything all too off in KH2 and I frankly enjoy the storyline and I don't see all that much 'complexity' to it, it's rather simple to follow and amusingly has some bit of depth, depending on the perspective of the audience. That and I think rather differently from most people. That's all i'm just saying.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #560 on:** June 18, 2010, 11:49:29 PM

Quote from: Carlos Santana on June 18, 2010, 11:40:04 PM

that's the thing. i'm one of those fools that didn't find anything all too off in KH2 and I frankly enjoy the storyline and I don't see all that much 'complexity' to it, it's rather simple to follow and amusingly has some bit of depth, depending on the perspective of the audience. That and I think rather differently from most people. That's all i'm just saying.

I enjoyed the game too. I just don't realise WHY they changed the tone so much.

Solar · **Reply #561 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:51:01 AM

Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on June 18, 2010, 10:15:54 PM

Not just him. Everything.

I mean, what did the organization did that was so evil? Ooooh, they want hearts of their own because they can't feel. SO EVIL. Ooooh, they're manipulating Sora into saving the worlds from heartless, something he'd most probably do anyway. SOOOO EVIL AND DIABOLICAL. Individual members were doing evil manipulative stuff, but it didn't make any sense why they did that.

The whole plot makes no sense. And people just come up to Sora and go "MEN IN BLACK COATS. EVIL. MUST DESTROY." Even Haloween Town's whole quest is simply based on Maleficent "trying to cause mischief once more". At least KH1 had a straight plan, an organization at the core that made sense, was Disney-based, and had actual perceptive goals. And it was a fun game that although a bit dark, it never stopped being an adventure with children going around and having fun through Disney worlds. Then in comes KH2 and starts being grimdark and retconning EVERYTHING.

Eh, the Org. XIII does have a goal, or at least Xemnas does, world domination and that stuff. That part is not that complicated.

Also, Re:Coded seems to have a different battle system than Coded, it's supposed to be using something similar to BbS.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #562 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:23:10 AM

Quote from: Taiyo on June 19, 2010, 03:51:01 AM

Eh, the Org. XIII does have a goal, or at least Xemnas does, world domination and that stuff. That part is not that complicated.

Also, Re:Coded seems to have a different battle system than Coded, it's supposed to be using something similar to BbS.

I don't even remember him stating that. World domination? There are so many damn worlds. What's he gonna do? Turn everyone into heartless? No, he loathes Heartless. Turn everyone into Nobodies? No, he doesn't like being a Nobody. Then WHAT. Is there a point to world domination, anything except "pure villanic requirement because nobody else gives a damn about motivation"?

Mirby · **Reply #563 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:40:33 AM

I think he's Chaotic Stupid.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #564 on:** June 19, 2010, 05:41:17 AM

Quote from: Talyn on June 19, 2010, 04:40:33 AM

I think he's Chaotic Stupid.

Chaotic Animu Clichéd, more like it. Like Sephiroth before him. Stupid motivation that appeared thanks to stupid logic. Nomura likes to pull off evil emo bishonen who are bimbos, it seems.

The Drunken Dishwasher · **Reply #565 on:** June 19, 2010, 09:17:09 AM

IF it only was a cliche only in Anime.

But whatever,to each their own.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #566 on:** June 19, 2010, 02:15:34 PM

Quote from: Carlos Santana on June 19, 2010, 09:17:09 AM

IF it only was a cliche only in Anime.

But whatever,to each their own.

Where else is it a cliché? I mean, here you got a simplistic story that doesn't make you think in the least, and instead spoon-feeds you every single twist while pulling more and more supernatural [parasitic bomb] off its own ass about the heart and soul and fighting. And a villain who's a bishonen with white long hair says cryptic things that aren't supposed to mean anything, just make him look cool.

...sounds like anime there, bro.

VixyNyan · **Reply #567 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:16:25 PM

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #568 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:24:14 PM

Quote from: VixyNyan on June 19, 2010, 03:16:25 PM

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

Exactly! Look at how EEEEEVIL that sounds! That's totally the rant of a world-destroying maniac. =P

Dantonumanoa Ongdolota Amycronicon · **Reply #569 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:45:28 PM

Quote from: VixyNyan on June 19, 2010, 03:16:25 PM

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

Apparently this has already been stated by Flash numerous times, but this doesn't sound unreasonable in the least, and I always wondered why it was that Sora had to stop him.

Rin · **Reply #570 on:** June 19, 2010, 03:56:46 PM

Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on June 18, 2010, 10:04:24 PM

Chain of Memories was good. It made it so Axel was a sneaky dude, adhering to his plan every single step of the way so he'd win, no matter what.

...then KH2 turned him into a pansy looking for his love.

Oh God, did I rage at that.
I loved him in CoM, he was my favorite character there.
Then Kingdom Hearts 2 came... and I no longer liked him so much.

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #571 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:06:13 PM

Quote from: Perfect Hamartia on June 19, 2010, 03:45:28 PM

Apparently this has already been stated by Flash numerous times, but this doesn't sound unreasonable in the least, and I always wondered why it was that Sora had to stop him.

The ultimate reason might be because they don't want him to open Kingdom Hearts. But then... what the hell even is Kingdom Hearts? It's the essence of all hearts, right? Sora predicted it was "LIIIIIGHT" because all humans are "GOOOOD". And then suddenly it was darkness again for some reason. And then... Mickey was inside for some other reason... and...

I DUNNO! The guy keeps pulling more and more stuff out of his ass! The appearance of Mickey and Riku at the last minute make sense in a sacrificial ending kind of way, for a surprise, but they don't make sense when you try to explain the whole thing and make "opening Kingdom Hearts to obtain new hearts for those who have none" an evil thing. Because it's not. KH had Ansem (or Xehanort, whatever) wanting to open up Kingdom Hearts because he wanted the darkness within to conquer all worlds and turn everything into pure darkness. It's kinda stupid, but with the reports and everything, it kinda made sense, in a simplistic sort of way. Until the following games screwed everything up.

Quote from: Lord Forte on June 19, 2010, 03:56:46 PM

Oh God, did I rage at that.
I loved him in CoM, he was my favorite character there.
Then Kingdom Hearts 2 came... and I no longer liked him so much.

Retcons! They can turn Yagami Light into Shinji Ikari!

Blackhook · **Reply #572 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:07:45 PM

Well, maybe it was bad to open Kingdom Hearts? The XIII tried to open it so that makes them evil?

Bueno Excelente · **Reply #573 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:10:47 PM

Quote from: Blackhook on June 19, 2010, 04:07:45 PM

Well, maybe it was bad to open Kingdom Hearts? The XIII tried to open it so that makes them evil?

But... WHY is it bad? It's the essence of all hearts, why not explore it? Why not use it to obtain a heart yourself instead of existing as a being who can't feel? What should Nobodies do? Just... go on without feeling? Or try to be alive again? They're trying to regain their humanity. And Sora just walks in and slaughters them.

Blackhook · **Reply #574 on:** June 19, 2010, 04:16:42 PM

You see Xemnas is trying to use KH for his generic villain motives, but the other nobodies believe they are doing to get their hearts back....
Also it is not as if they were all friendly. Without hearts and stuff they kinda became evil...
Seriously the concept of Heartless, Nobodies and What´s-their-name-in-BBS confuses me

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