Tatsunoko vs. Capcom (the sequel topic)

[Cpie]

 Gee guys, it's not the megaman franchise' Zero. Must be Zero Gouki. I mean, Zero (megaman) has been in three frikin' games already. That's enough.


But I do wish it's MM's Zero; I want to see Zero vs Roll!
Also, if they use RMZ's Zero, I'm gonna kill them. He looks like a [Top Spin] with that thong.

[HyperSonicEXE]

That's one critique I have of MMZ and ZX;

What's with the RoboThongs?

[spoiler]No, I have no problem with Classic and EXE spandex, why do you ask? [/spoiler]

[Cpie]

WEll, why do these robots have thongs or breifs at all?

[Canticleer Blues]

Remember, there are three new Tatsunoko characters and two new Capcom ones.  So logically, this has to be the Zero we all know.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Cyber Akuma Zero

Or whatever that huge Cyberbots robot was. I just know there was a Zero in it.

Hey, big mega surprise, what if it's Zero.EXE? I'd laaaaaugh.

[Solar]

This one? Honestly, I wouldn't mind that much.

[HokutoNoBen]

"Wailing on them" isn't enough of a similarity to be considered related attacks.

Well, really, how in-depth of a similarity do you desire?

Again, the fundamental thing they have in common, is that they're both basically "canned animation" attacks. They both make it so that upon connecting, the opposition can't do anything to escape the attack, forcing them deal with it in its entirety.

On that basic level, yes, they have more in common with one another, then they do not. Overtly similar concept, different means to an end. Parlance for most FGs goes that, the only thing that really separates the two is that one registers as a "(unblockable) throw" [SGS], the other as a "(blockable) hit" [Ranbu].

Besides, what version of Shun Goku Satsu scores only 7 hits?

If you're simply looking for a Shun Goku Satsu "type" of attack? Hanzo's "Weapon Flipping Technique" in Samurai Shodown 5 Special (where he basically punches you quickly, breaks your arm using Koppo and then Izuna Otoshi for the finish) does only like 5-6 hits, at most.


But in any case...how does that factor into the equation, exactly?

I mean, the definitive first example of a "Ranbu", the Sakazaki-style Ryuuko Ranbu from Art of Fighting 1, did easily around the 10-20+ hit range (no hit counter existed in that game, so an approximation was used on my part). And of course, variants have appeared in the years and games to follow, which have usually only added more hits, or "worse" (especially if you're a SNK boss).

Meanwhile, the Shun Goku Satsu, and the various similar attacks it has spawned (like Morrigan's Darkness Illusion, and the WFT attacks in the Samurai Shodown series) have ranged any where from like 6-30+ hits, depending on the version of the attack and the game it's in. 

Some fighting games have even gone forth to incorporate both "schools of thought" into one game, further blurring the thin line that separates the two. Capcom's own "Jojo's Bizarre Adventure" fighter is an excellent example of this type of thing in action, and it certainly is not the only one to do as such.


So, again...what does the fact that Omega's version only does 7 hits have to do with anything, really? Omega's attack is an undeniable, direct homage to what could be considered one basic concept, that's been in fighting games for many years before Z3 and ZX were released. Omega's version just does it in its own "way", suitable for the game's means. It's both unblockable like Akuma's Shun Goku Satsu (and has its trailing shadows on start-up), yet it also has a lil "hop" upon activation like Ryo's Ryuuko Ranbu. Omega's version freely invokes both, as part of its presentation.

So, far as most in my ilk are concerned, the SGS and Ranbu are, as suggested above, little more than slightly different approaches to the same/similar end. Y'know, kinda like how projectile attacks, whether they be executed like "Hadoukens" (thrown in the air in front of you), "Power Waves" (thrust along the ground)  or through some other type of means, are both considered the same thing, just executed in differing styles.

[Cpie]

This one? Honestly, I wouldn't mind that much.

OHGODNOTTHATHORROR

[Hypershell]

Regardless of whether or not you collect his parts, it still sounds more boss battle-ish.

I never saw it that way.  I just see it as kickass-character-on-screen, same as the X1 theme.

This one? Honestly, I wouldn't mind that much.

No. If I want a red digital warrior, I'd rather SAMURIZE, GUYS!
(Tsuburaya Vs. Capcom, fund it)

If you're simply looking for a Shun Goku Satsu "type" of attack?

No, not a Shun Goku Satsu "type" attack.  I could name Smash Bros. attacks that qualify as that.  I mean an attack that is either named Shun Goku Satsu or a derivative thereof.  Some factual, Capcom-approved relation.  You're going much more generalized than I am.

Shun Goku Satsu is a name, not an adjective.  If you're going to say "Omega's variation of Shun Goku Satsu", it implies some connection between the two beyond the mere concept of an inescapable combo move.  Especially since Street Fighter moves have been known to appear within MegaMan games.  If the attack had no proper name, that'd be one thing, but thanks to Marshmallow and the japanese ZX guide, that's not true anymore.

Alright, I read it too, I know I'm going grammar-nazi.  I'll stop now.

[Nekomata]

size=3pt](Tsuburaya Vs. Capcom, fund it)[/size]

Gridman was so horrible.

[Jericho]

*Prays for Acid's idea or MMZ Zero*

[Hypershell]

Gridman was so horrible.

I wouldn't know, but our adaptation over in this hemisphere kicked enough ass to outlast it.
(unfortunately that meant lots of stock footage...)

[Satoryu]

i'll be frank and a buzzkill. even imagining that zero.jpg isn't referring to the Zero we're thinking of is downright retarded. Capcom isn't that smart to pull a fast one like that. if they meant Gouki of any form, they would've named the picture as such.

[HyperSonicEXE]

i'll be frank and a buzzkill. even imagining that zero.jpg isn't referring to the Zero we're thinking of is downright retarded. Capcom isn't that smart to pull a fast one like that. if they meant Gouki of any form, they would've named the picture as such.

I seriously hope you're right, and yet, 3 Mega Man characters seems a bit overkill.

Not that I personally mind, but as far as company image...?

[Protoman Blues]

I seriously hope you're right, and yet, 3 Mega Man characters seems a bit overkill.

Not that I personally mind, but as far as company image...?

With Joe the Condor, they will have 3 Gatchaman characters in the game.

[HyperSonicEXE]

Yeah, and I can't forget the Street Fighter characters that appear everywhere. Ryu, Chun-Li, and either Ken or Zangief are pretty much guaranteed slots in most if not all games.

[X-3]

I'm thinking it's MM's Zero. He and Frank would make 2 Capcom characters, while Joe the Condor, Tekkabla and Yatterman #2 would be new Tatsunoko characters. (probably got some names wrong there, sorry)

But, hey, guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Pringer X]

The only problem I have with the new characters is with Yatterman #2. I mean, what are the odds she's going to be a clone of Yatterman? It seems as if TvC has done fairly well in avoiding clones of the characters in-game, so I hope she's little more than a different model.

[Satoryu]

I'm thinking it's MM's Zero. He and Frank would make 2 Capcom characters, while Joe the Condor, Tekkabla and Yatterman #2 would be new Tatsunoko characters.

thank you Captain Obvious.

The only problem I have with the new characters is with Yatterman #2. I mean, what are the odds she's going to be a clone of Yatterman? It seems as if TvC has done fairly well in avoiding clones of the characters in-game, so I hope she's little more than a different model.

i'd say about the same odds as Tekkaman Blade being a sorta clone of Tekkaman and Joe being a sorta clone of Ken.

[Pringer X]

i'd say about the same odds as Tekkaman Blade being a sorta clone of Tekkaman and Joe being a sorta clone of Ken.

I guess Oh well, at least we're getting it.

[Protoman Blues]

The next game will hopefully have Speed Racer, a Samurai Pizza Cat, Blues, and Phoenix Wright.

[Solar]

Speaking of Tekkaman Blade...

Right guys I have played a version with Tekkaman Blade (currently available to play at Neoempire's Super VS Battle):

Movement:
He is so awakeward to maneuver, his double dash is an angular air dash movement like Morrigan's but flys at 45 degrees and has some start up, namely a booster animation. You can cancel it with a normal but if you do it too fast the normal wont actually hit anything. One guy said you can cancel it with an up direction. Another property of his double dash is if you double dash again he will fly horizontally. It starts a little slow but once he gets moving he travels very very fast. If your in the air and dash you'll get the horizontal one. His walking pace is normal.

Specials:
Qcf + Attack-
He throws out the sharp ends of his lance (which is divided into two) if they connect he teleports to the opponent and rips them out. A version horizontal and if it connects he doesnt do the teleport thing after. B version is at a 45 degree angle didnt check if he does the teleport thing after. C version is longer reaching horizontal with the extra animation described. If you miss you are so open especially the C version. IIRC you can do this move in the air too. I'll double check today and update.

Qcb + Attack-
Blade dash foward leaving his lance behind spinning after he stops he yanks it back to him like a yoyo. The strength of the button determines the distance. Im fairly sure you cant hit him while he is dashing forward. Also he can dash right through the opponent with this move.

Rapid Attack-
Basically spins his lance above his head while one the ground. Covers quite good space. This is also his assist attack.

Charge d, u + Attack-
Does a quick spin of his lance above his head (like above but doesnt cover a lot of space) then dashes foward spinning is lance in front of him.

Air d + C-
Exactly the same as normal Tekkaman's a quick downward strike.

Supers:
Qcf + Two Attacks-
Blade charges foward really quickly strikes you a couple of times while suspended in the air (very similar to Kens super)

??? + Two Attacks-
Cant remember the command but he has another super where he fires his two shoulder cannons at angle below 45 degrees.

Lvl3:
HCB + Two Attacks(?)-
Starts off kinda similar to Chipps instant death move. Flys up and spreads his arms out and creates a huge ball of energy around him. If you get a touched by it then it goes into a special animation where his chest opens up and he blasts you. Otherwise his same thing happens if you dont get touched by the energy field.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7469859&postcount=268

The only problem I have with the new characters is with Yatterman #2. I mean, what are the odds she's going to be a clone of Yatterman? It seems as if TvC has done fairly well in avoiding clones of the characters in-game, so I hope she's little more than a different model.

Low, Yatterman 1 hits you with a ball, Yatterman 2 electrocutes the [parasitic bomb] out of you.

[HokutoNoBen]

No, not a Shun Goku Satsu "type" attack.  I could name Smash Bros. attacks that qualify as that.  I mean an attack that is either named Shun Goku Satsu or a derivative thereof.  Some factual, Capcom-approved relation.  You're going much more generalized than I am.

Well, honestly, again, that's how I, and I would wager, most FG fans would look at things, as such. Because after all, by the time you get to where some where around the level of a "seasoned veteran", it gets even more generalized. "Frames and Hit-boxes"! 

Shun Goku Satsu is a name, not an adjective.  If you're going to say "Omega's variation of Shun Goku Satsu", it implies some connection between the two beyond the mere concept of an inescapable combo move.  Especially since Street Fighter moves have been known to appear within MegaMan games.  If the attack had no proper name, that'd be one thing, but thanks to Marshmallow and the japanese ZX guide, that's not true anymore.

Again..."a rose by any other name..." 

But in any case, you just performed a service for me, by helping me illustrate the point I was trying to convey.

For example, you can go ahead and call even the likes of Zero's various "rising slash" attacks whatever you want, or by their in-game/canon names. Still doesn't take away that they're "Shoryuken" type attacks. And if any one of them were going to be used in this particular game (assuming the pretty much 99.9% assurance that this is some type of MM-related Zero), then you could expect that most in the FG arena would just call them SRKs. KISS - "Keeps it simple, shelly"!   

And that's the bottom line I'm working with. In a case like this, I'm willing to do more to "call a spade a spade", in the colloquial way that does more to promote the intent I was trying to make. Yes, I know what Omega's attack's "official name" is, but going more along the lines of calling it a "SGS" type of attack makes sense, especially in the context I was referring to (traditional) fighting game notation.

[Hypershell]

that's how I, and I would wager, most FG fans would look at things

Ben, Ben, Ben....  I thought that by now you'd know me well enough to know that I'm not a tourneyfag, let alone a traditional fighting game tourneyfag.  If you don't then check my Brawl replays sometime.  

I am a platforming fanboy, not a fighting fanboy.  I don't ignore armament.  Hell, to me it's blasphemous; arsenal is 9/10 of MegaMan gameplay.

This has got to be the longest and stupidest "tomayto, tomahto" discussion I ever got into.  

[Flame]

This one? Honestly, I wouldn't mind that much.

Exe and Classic have BOTH had their fair share of game cameos. Even the Zero series had one or two.
I think its time for the X series to get a chance, no? I mean, X and Zero could easily be good fighting game character. (Well, X would most likely just be like Megaman, maybe a bit stronger)