Official Bayonetta Thread (Now with Copious Amounts of Action)

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Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #100 on: December 05, 2009, 09:15:33 PM
Well, it's not really in a case where we're being serious.  Just more of an afterthought;  it's there, it's implied, and we think (or for some, not think).

or, yeah...




Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #101 on: December 05, 2009, 09:21:54 PM
Alright, finished the demo twice.

Well, Bayonetta does make some very marked improvements to the Action genre. In addition to the Climaxes sweetening your victory, combos are fluid (provided you can remember them, because they're not intuitive, but that's on par for the genre), the controls are solid, and there is the one-button, catch-all Evade.

That said, it still needs work. DMC4 Nero's O-button arm was the last and only time I actually felt like I could tackle a boss. You do get a great sense of power fighting regular enemies, and she does make quick work of them. But when it comes to bosses or rivals, you are still at the mercy of your measly weapons. Any combos you pull may or may not interrupt the boss, leaving you no time to evade. That Evade function, by the way, is handy in that it's one-button, but you can barely see what move your enemy is about to pull whereas in other action games you have just enough indicator. Or you can at least see the bloody weapon or their arm swinging, for pete's sake.

Take it from a guy who's finished the game, several times now.

The demo, unfortunately, still doesn't give you the full scope of all the weapons, abilities and accessories you have at your disposal, much less all that you can do with them. Spending time with the game will inevitably just make you more adept in this light, though, because the options that are present to you are [tornado fang]ing STAGGERING.

For example, you can start a combo, dodge/roll out of the way of the opposition, and then CONTINUE that combo after the dodge animation is finished. Then begin a new combo. Switch between your two weapon layouts, and the combos they each offer, at will. 8D

Even the demo has a good deal of options to it. But you ain't seen nuthin' yet. Wait til you get the ability to buy accessories, which will you to do anything ranging from being able to Parry like in Third Strike, have "clones" follow your attacks like Alpha 3's V-Ism, or give you a bit more breathing room in the form of a "Leaf Shield" thing that absorbs a few hits for you. And that's not to say the abilities you can stand to get. Bayo's version of "Stinger" is only the tip of the iceberg.  8)


As for enemy patterns? Well, that comes from just being able to observe them. Everybody in this game telegraphs what they're going to do, like in Viewtiful Joe. Once you know what to look out for, and how to work around it to your advantage, though? It ain't so bad. Just keep going at it! ^_^






Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #102 on: December 05, 2009, 09:24:20 PM
...You're [tornado fang]ing kidding me right?

that's...making me give Bayonetta hype now  :-[



Offline Jericho

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Reply #103 on: December 05, 2009, 09:26:57 PM
Ben, I think the best evasion I've seen Bayonetta use in videos is the one where she literally separates herself into a few dozen bats and reforms starting up Witch Time. When I saw that, I automatically knew that this game is going to be a favorite of mine for years. 8B



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #104 on: December 05, 2009, 09:29:31 PM
That too.  It's incredibly beautiful.

but what Ben mentioned of the shadow clones.  If it's like what Ninja Gaiden 2 has...man...i'm not sure how to take that much awesome.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #105 on: December 05, 2009, 10:28:27 PM
Ben, I think the best evasion I've seen Bayonetta use in videos is the one where she literally separates herself into a few dozen bats and reforms starting up Witch Time. When I saw that, I automatically knew that this game is going to be a favorite of mine for years. 8B

That's one of the "techniques" you can buy in the game. Called "Bat Within".

What it does: If you're able to dodge at basically the LAST POSSIBLE second, you'll do this Dodge instead, which not only negates the damage you would have received, but it also does a little bit of damage to the enemy that was trying to hit you.

Ya better get good with it though....

[spoiler]....by the time you unlock Jeanne as a playable character, the ONLY way you can activate Witch Time with her, is through Bat Within's or the "Just Defended" Parry. On the other hand, she gets better combo bonuses and can keep dodging indefinitely, while Bayo only gets three before she flips into a "cat pounce" landing[/spoiler]

but what Ben mentioned of the shadow clones.  If it's like what Ninja Gaiden 2 has...man...i'm not sure how to take that much awesome.

Not familiar with how NG2 does it, but again, the best way I could describe it? Think of it is like how you can do V-Ism in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Yun's Genei Jin in Third Strike, Doppelganger in DMC3 (only you get 3 instead of just 1) and etc.

Activating the technique drains your magic meter, but you get three clones that follow your movements in a delayed fashion. That basically means your enemy gets to eat all of the damage that not only YOU deliver, but repeated damage from your clones too! Pretty much the only thing they can't do is follow your Wicked Weaves with their own. But that much doesn't matter, considering how powerful this technique already is. 8D



Offline CephiYumi

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Reply #106 on: December 06, 2009, 12:23:05 AM
I'm pretty sure I never bought any accessorys or skills o.o



Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #107 on: December 06, 2009, 12:57:56 AM
Give me the upgrade where I turn into King Bowser and Haymaker everything!

Just not a big fan of slow-to-activate, multi-button press combos. 3 or 4 button presses, max. EVER.



Offline Nekomata

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Reply #108 on: December 06, 2009, 01:12:22 AM
i like the trumpet bazooka.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #109 on: December 06, 2009, 02:46:06 AM
Give me the upgrade where I turn into King Bowser and Haymaker everything!

Get through the highest difficulty, Non-Stop Climax. If that ain't basically it, I don't know what is. 8D

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Just not a big fan of slow-to-activate, multi-button press combos. 3 or 4 button presses, max. EVER.

Slow-to-activate?

Really and truly, the combos are only as "slow" as your hand-eye coordination allows you to have. Want the combos to come out faster, then your fingers may need to get a bit more training in their reflexes. 8D

But then again, if you do want something a bit more deliberate and powerful, the game's got you covered. How do Fire Claws and Tonfa Bazookas sound to you? 



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #110 on: December 06, 2009, 10:19:45 AM
Not familiar with how NG2 does it, but again, the best way I could describe it? Think of it is like how you can do V-Ism in Street Fighter Alpha 3, Yun's Genei Jin in Third Strike, Doppelganger in DMC3 (only you get 3 instead of just 1) and etc.

Activating the technique drains your magic meter, but you get three clones that follow your movements in a delayed fashion. That basically means your enemy gets to eat all of the damage that not only YOU deliver, but repeated damage from your clones too! Pretty much the only thing they can't do is follow your Wicked Weaves with their own. But that much doesn't matter, considering how powerful this technique already is. 8D

well for NG2, i'm referring to the two double Ryus you get (NES one), but aside from that.  Mentioning Yun's Genei Jin, NOW I get ya and frankly.  I love what you just typed~



Offline HyperSonicEXE

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Reply #111 on: December 06, 2009, 06:01:56 PM
Get through the highest difficulty, Non-Stop Climax. If that ain't basically it, I don't know what is. 8D

Slow-to-activate?

Really and truly, the combos are only as "slow" as your hand-eye coordination allows you to have. Want the combos to come out faster, then your fingers may need to get a bit more training in their reflexes. 8D

But then again, if you do want something a bit more deliberate and powerful, the game's got you covered. How do Fire Claws and Tonfa Bazookas sound to you? 

You can press P,P,P,K,P too fast and the combo doesn't activate. Does that in training, does that in combat.

Developers don't seem to get that the only people that care about Ranking, Difficulty, and Combos are a very niche group of nerds with nothing better to do. The larger group really doesn't care, want a powerful and competent main hero without feeling like you've SNOBBED US LIKE WE'RE SOMEHOW INFERIOR FOR PREFERRING SOMEONE WITH SOME ACTUAL POWER, and enjoy the settings and story since the devs hide secret missions and areas and spend a lot of time making you watch cutscenes and travel.

And you still really can't dodge while you're trying to input these long combos, and if an enemy decides to go nuts on you while you're putting it in and it's wanting a certain timing, well you're just SOL.

Brutal Legend had longer combos, but they weren't necessary. In addition, it had an all-range, damage stopping Guard. This made you focus on knowing when to pull off combos instead of going in headlong. And in the meantime, you had plenty of shorter inputs that, though not as powerful, had effect. Stop an enemy in its tracks, daze them, set them on fire, etc. Brutal Legend would have been the best Action game if it had some more of the genre's traditional elements (like a freakin' lifebar) and the RTS hadn't gotten in the way.



Offline HokutoNoBen

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Reply #112 on: December 06, 2009, 09:44:24 PM
You can press P,P,P,K,P too fast and the combo doesn't activate. Does that in training, does that in combat.

That sounds more like you're just not doing your inputs correctly. The game, to many ends, resembles a Vs. fighter, when it comes to how it will not register your inputs if you do them too slow, or too fast.

Once you get the correct muscle memory down though, you're good. But again, it requires training, and a sizable investment of your time, assuming you want to see just how far the rabbit hole goes in this area.

Quote
Developers don't seem to get that the only people that care about Ranking, Difficulty, and Combos are a very niche group of nerds with nothing better to do. The larger group really doesn't care, want a powerful and competent main hero without feeling like you've SNOBBED US LIKE WE'RE SOMEHOW INFERIOR FOR PREFERRING SOMEONE WITH SOME ACTUAL POWER, and enjoy the settings and story since the devs hide secret missions and areas and spend a lot of time making you watch cutscenes and travel.

Again, don't see really what's the problem. Bayonetta has PLENTY of power, even without the additional stuff I speak of. The additional stuff just makes you better. You just need to learn how to properly hone it all. For all the options that the game gives you, there's plenty of stuff that's available for those who "just want to make it to the end", as well as those who are willing to explore the engine further.  

Just because Bayonetta doesn't do more to hand it to you on a silver platter, like say, how it was done with Nero in DMC4, or the entirety that describes a certain other franchise, doesn't mean it's not there.

Quote
And you still really can't dodge while you're trying to input these long combos, and if an enemy decides to go nuts on you while you're putting it in and it's wanting a certain timing, well you're just SOL.

Actually, again, yes you can. When you start a combo, and then go into a dodge, the combo you started is "stored" (for lack of a better term), and can then be resumed after you finished the dodge animation (or cancelled out of it). This "Roll Cancel" is really how you can start doing some nice damage, dodge to avoid an enemy's attack (Activating Witch Time in the process, if you're good), and then continue the combo.

But the basic thing that can be stressed? This game REQUIRES you to learn the importance of dodging, not unlike Viewtiful Joe and God Hand before it. You have to learn what your enemy capable of, and how to best dodge it, if not counter it out right. In short, yes, home slice, you need to actually LEARN this game, in order to get good at it. The game makes for a lot of ways in order to help you along, but it's still on you the user, to get the most out of it.

Quote
Brutal Legend had longer combos, but they weren't necessary. In addition, it had an all-range, damage stopping Guard. This made you focus on knowing when to pull off combos instead of going in headlong. And in the meantime, you had plenty of shorter inputs that, though not as powerful, had effect. Stop an enemy in its tracks, daze them, set them on fire, etc. Brutal Legend would have been the best Action game if it had some more of the genre's traditional elements (like a freakin' lifebar) and the RTS hadn't gotten in the way.

And in some ways, Bayo is the same way. For the most part, you don't go in head first in Bayonetta, you wait for the right opportunity to severely mess them up. Also, there are a good number of combos that exist that are shorter, but no less useful and advantageous.

One good example? A nice BnB such a "PKP". It's short, sweet, and the third hit summons a forward hitting Wicked Weave Punch that will knock enemies away from you, which could give you some nice elbow room. Then by the time you get the special attacks such as Tetsuzanko, you'll get a nice "Hip Check" maneuver that's pretty much guaranteed to knock all but the toughest opposition back, plus can summon a Wicked Weave punch if you have 3 stocks worth of magic to spare.

Again, the basic thing is that the game has plenty in the way of depth and options, to help many different playstyles and users out. It's not unlike how most competent Vs. Fighters do it, like Street Fighter and etc. And like with SF, you really do have to know what you're doing, and what options are present to you, in order to get the most out of it and really "bring the potential out". That's pretty much all that can be said here.

If it's not for you...then that's nothing more than can be said here either. But there's nothing wrong with the game itself, either.




Offline Da Dood

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Reply #113 on: December 08, 2009, 10:57:52 PM
Wow, I am stupid. Played the demo almost ten times and didn't realize there's a secret fight if you backtrack to the starting room. Derp.

It's also probably the best fight in the demo... X(

Awesome game, as expected. Like the best action games out there, I don't expect to be an expert on day one, so the slightest improvements I make as I play feel quite rewarding already.


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Offline Jericho

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Reply #115 on: December 09, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
http://www.freelanceastronauts.com/view.php?id=776

have fun with this.

I love you for this link. XD

"I wonder what it means when I get a boner for Pikmin..."

Good God I lost my [parasitic bomb] there. XD



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #116 on: December 09, 2009, 09:44:26 AM
Wow, I am stupid. Played the demo almost ten times and didn't realize there's a secret fight if you backtrack to the starting room. Derp.

*plays the demo for the 7th time*



Offline Jericho

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Reply #117 on: December 13, 2009, 03:29:52 AM
So Bayonetta got a date bump for Europe. Gamestop Germany has confirmed it via some preorders and GAF spread the news. Instead of coming out next year, it'll be releasing on the 16th. As in next week. I am now green with envy.



Offline Acid

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Reply #118 on: December 13, 2009, 03:32:45 AM
Hooray!

Bayonetta for Christmas? I'm OK with that.



Offline Satoryu

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Reply #119 on: December 13, 2009, 06:48:27 AM
Bumping a date UP. That's so weird. I wonder why they're doing it?


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Offline Nekomata

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Reply #120 on: December 13, 2009, 07:49:14 AM
because europe is missing most of the graphical effects in the form of gore and nudity?



Offline Pringer X

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Reply #121 on: January 07, 2010, 07:48:06 PM
Necro post, Bayonetta got released earlier this week state-side and I picked it up to rent.

Not bad, but I hate the fact that taking a hit drastically reduces your magic gauge. It's bad enough some enemies hit harder than a mach-speed truck, I don't want to lose whatever magic power I managed to get after a giant combo at the same time.



Offline Nekomata

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Reply #122 on: January 07, 2010, 07:53:08 PM
then don't get hit.



Offline CephiYumi

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Reply #123 on: January 07, 2010, 07:54:35 PM
Dodge a lot, it's a very nice dodge ^^



Offline Satoryu

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Reply #124 on: January 07, 2010, 08:34:09 PM
I tried Easy mode. It sucks. Whenever I tried to pull off a combo, it would make me do a different one instead. I guess Easy is okay if you're completely new to the genre. But if you've ever played a DMC before, you'll feel a lot more comfortable on Normal.

And I hope there are more Mikami references as the game progresses. I've probably missed a few already. The only one I immediately caught was Movie Land.


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