Topic: Quick Question

[Zan]

Well, another explanation of the story is thta Cut Man was just rebuilt by Wily. I guess that's what the newspaper in Mega Man 7 emplies when they use the term "Cutman 2."

You really should disregard the newspaper, it's just a cameo comic, like the adventures of KonroMan.

Actually, I did a bit of assuming there, but after you look at this scene, don't you think it's the only logical explanation?

It's an extremely likely possibility, but not a necessity. It's a good idea, but unless we get a nifty little book quote, we can't confirm it. Maybe the mm8 developers were thinking of it, but I doubt the mm7 developers were.

CutMan is never seen again after MM8, except for his CD database entry.

Correction... Power Fighters...

This reminds me, though... between mm7 and mm8, we have Power Battles. But it can also be moved near Power Fighters and mm9. If we were to go with the capsule story... mm8 establishes a backstory to CutMan's presence that would be at odds with Power Battle having recently occurred. If we disregard the museum, than it just means a really long time passed since Power Battle and 8, but it would explain why Rock knows CutMan is evil. (Even if he questions why Wood is still with Wily...)

[Gauntlet101010]

There being more than one CutMan IS overcomplicating things.

So, it's less complicated to think there's just one Cutman who's been destroyed and rebuilt over and over again and the museum was just one stop in his journey rather than think that a robot museum would just take a Cutman for their permenant display. 

Cutman is a robot ... there doesn't have to be just one of him.  There are examples of multiple RMs being made.  You don't have to look past MM1 even.

As for whether MM7 alludes to Cut and Wood, while it is debatable, Astroman also makes a cameo appearance, so ... I tend to favor the theory.  It's just another link to MM8.  I don't see why it's such a big debate.

[Bag of Magic Food]

CutMan's design relates to MetalMan's, not WoodMan's, hence, Metal Blade, which is akin to the wood-cutting tool Rolling Cutter, is very effective on WoodMan.

But WoodMan is even weaker to Air Shooter in the NES version.  What's up with that?

[Zan]

But WoodMan is even weaker to Air Shooter in the NES version.  What's up with that?

Game mechanics. Probably a multi-hit effect. >.>
Either way, Atomic Fire is his official weakness.

So, it's less complicated to think there's just one Cutman who's been destroyed and rebuilt over and over again and the museum was just one stop in his journey rather than think that a robot museum would just take a Cutman for their permenant display.

Cutman is a robot ... there doesn't have to be just one of him.  There are examples of multiple RMs being made.  You don't have to look past MM1 even.

Of course it's overcomplicated, it's massive identity crisis, we should never have to worry about 'which' CutMan we're speaking about.

First and foremost, they're not just robots, they're characters in a story. Mass production ruins that aspect. There should only be one CutMan.

Secondly, from a story perspective, Dr. Right isn't Wily, and it's doubtful even Wily would copy robots that are his own. Robot individuality is an important matter to sentient robots. You might be able to reproduce the body, but never the mind, yet "CutMan" from the database is listed as a single entity with likes and dislikes and all that. Furthermore there are strong implications of a history with CutMan in mm8, the same goes for WoodMan, who is asked why he's still with Wily.

Besides, all other copies in the series have always been directly addressed as copies. Copy Robot, "Rockman?", holograms. Not to mention "King II" from Rockman and Forte.

Finally, it's not like the series in general doesn't repeat itself. Wily has tried the same thing numerous times now.

[Gauntlet101010]

MM1 has several Gutsmen in the final level.  MM5 GB has several versions of the Rockman Killers in the level you fight them in.  Each and every game has boss re-fights and MM6 has "fake" bosses.  Let's not forget Superadventure.  You suppose Wily's RMs find "paying jobs" after Wily either steals them or makes them.  But RaMoon still made a second set.  So there's another instance of the fact.

So, I don't see why a museum wouldn't have one Cutman on hand while the other one does whatever he does.  Even if Light wouldn't make another Cutman because of this "identity crisis", I don't see why he wouldn't give a deactivated one to the museum.  It doesn't make it complicated at all.  Wily stole the Cutman from the robot museum.  He then uses him in either 8 (or whichever game you feel like putting after 7).  That Cutman is destroyed.  The end.  Whichever Cutman comes after this is simply stolen.  And is destroyed after MM fights him.  And gets repaired; and so on.

Classic Megaman is best understood as a cartoon with little attention paid to exactly how the robots remember anything.  If you really want to make the matter confusing: few if any robots, should retain their memories of their fights with MM.  Because most of them get destroyed.  Sure, Wily could make a new one ... they could get rebuilt ... but their hardware is destroyed.  They turn into little blinking balls of light and scatter across the screen.  And the teleport levels ... it's unbelievably to think Wily would try to preserve those memories.  How would he?  Most of the time his castle explodes, taking everything with it.  So the new robot shouldn't really remember anything, even if Wily has personality backups.  Each fight with MM ought to be their first. 

The "copy robot" from Rockman Rockman is simply another robot and has no bearing on any other teleport levels found in the rest of the series.  Hell, MM9 shows Concreteman chasing Wily out of Skull Castle.  It implies it's the Concreteman from the teleport stage; not a copy robot.  As for King II, whose to say what he would have been like? 

So, it's best not to think about it too much and squint.  Somehow, Cutman remembers each and every single fight he had with MM even if, by all rights, he shouldn't.  Cutman does not suffer from an identity crisis when, by all rights, he should.  Maybe their brains are like a plane's black box and survive fights with MM regardless of the damage dished out.  Maybe Wily and Light keep realtime streaming backups.  Maybe it's like Dune and each robot synchronises with their counterparts periodically from a central database.  Who knows?   Somehow it happens.  It's one of those things yer not meant to question. 

[Slash Man]

MM1 has several Gutsmen in the final level.  MM5 GB has several versions of the Rockman Killers in the level you fight them in.  Each and every game has boss re-fights and MM6 has "fake" bosses.  Let's not forget Superadventure.  You suppose Wily's RMs find "paying jobs" after Wily either steals them or makes them.  But RaMoon still made a second set.  So there's another instance of the fact. 

Oh man, this topic's been addressed in one of my other not-so-quick topics. 
http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=969.0

Classic Megaman is best understood as a cartoon with little attention paid to exactly how the robots remember anything.  If you really want to make the matter confusing: few if any robots, should retain their memories of their fights with MM.  Because most of them get destroyed.  Sure, Wily could make a new one ... they could get rebuilt ... but their hardware is destroyed.  They turn into little blinking balls of light and scatter across the screen.  And the teleport levels ... it's unbelievably to think Wily would try to preserve those memories.  How would he?  Most of the time his castle explodes, taking everything with it.  So the new robot shouldn't really remember anything, even if Wily has personality backups.  Each fight with MM ought to be their first.

Sorry to keep up the confusion, but when you destroy a robot master, the death is just simplified as a big explosion (they probably just kept it because it's pretty to look at). Proto Man was defeated by King, but his parts were laying in a heap (he could still talk, too). Another robot who stands as a testimony to that is Zero. All his memories are still there (hibernation sickness is another story).
My theory on replacement robots is that they always specify ahead of time. In MM6, they told you there were fake copies, the new King was King II and finally, Mega Man's replacement was X.

[Zan]

MM1 has several Gutsmen in the final level.  MM5 GB has several versions of the Rockman Killers in the level you fight them in.

Yet none of those empty shells were activated the same time as the real thing.

Let's not forget Superadventure.  You suppose Wily's RMs find "paying jobs" after Wily either steals them or makes them.  But RaMoon still made a second set. So there's another instance of the fact.

Ra Moon made a second set of bodies whilst Wily had the original brain chips on hand. There's still only of each.

So, I don't see why a museum wouldn't have one Cutman on hand while the other one does whatever he does.

That'd be like wondering why the museum has functional robots on display to begin with, they just do. Mock ups are too low-tech for them seemingly.

but their hardware is destroyed.

This means nothing for the state of their minds, brain chips can survive, ask Zero for instance.

They turn into little blinking balls of light and scatter across the screen.

Game visuals, nothing else. You can bury blinking balls of light? Quickman's corpse surely got a proper burial.

And the teleport levels ... it's unbelievably to think Wily would try to preserve those  memories.

Hell, MM9 shows Concreteman chasing Wily out of Skull Castle.  It implies it's the Concreteman from the teleport stage

And then Quickman reappears completely fine in the game's ending, remembering his battle with Rock and therefore helping Rock to stop Ra Moon. Same case with the teleport stages, they got better and are back in action. Really, the easiest explanation is just that the brain chips survive and get put into spare bodies. There's no need to have multiple versions of the same characters at once. If a copy is created, either the personality is completely different (e.g. "Rockman?") or it's a mindless drone (e.g. IHX: Launcher Octopuld)

It's one of those things yer not meant to question.

Then wouldn't the simplest answer be: "there's only one unless otherwise mentioned and the writers just use them in whatever role they want to use them in." ?

[Bag of Magic Food]

Maybe their brains are like a plane's black box and survive fights with MM regardless of the damage dished out.

This could be the explanation.  MegaMan did recover important parts like that from some of the bosses in 9.  It's possible that the Robot Masters' brains have survived the fights many times before, but the games never showed it until then.

[Gauntlet101010]

Yet none of those empty shells were activated the same time as the real thing.

So what?  The only difference between MM1 and MM7 is that three of the robots were turned on.  

Ra Moon made a second set of bodies whilst Wily had the original brain chips on hand. There's still only of each.

You don't follow.  You propose that society finds a place for the robots Wily made.  So, after MM2, Woodman (for example) is put to work.  Suddenly RaMoon comes around and makes another Woodman for his purposes using Wily's brain chips.  That makes 2 Woodmen.  One made by RaMoon, the other salvaged from MM2.

That'd be like wondering why the museum has functional robots on display to begin with, they just do. Mock ups are too low-tech for them seemingly.

So you don't think a museum of technology would actually have technology in it?  I would disagree.

This means nothing for the state of their minds, brain chips can survive, ask Zero for instance.

And I'm saying it's improbable.  Like a cartoon.  As the series was meant to be understood.

Quickman's corpse surely got a proper burial.

Good point.  And yet he seems to remember his encounter with Rockman.  So, even if the body's destroyed and buried Wily still, somehow, gets their memories.  More proof of a streaming backup ... or that Wily went to the trouble of recovering Quickman's memories for that one fight with Rock .... or that it's written like a cartoon.  Standard logic would dictate that Quickman shouldn't remember.  Yet he does.  Clearly we weren't meant to look into the matter througholy.

There's no need to have multiple versions of the same characters at once. If a copy is created, either the personality is completely different (e.g. "Rockman?") or it's a mindless drone (e.g. IHX: Launcher Octopuld)

So instead of a backup robot being made, you think Wily fetches the personality chip *every time* from one robot just to use in his copies in the teleport level.  You assume you can't copy a personality chip.  "Rockman?" is a pretty lousy example since we have no idea why Wily made that copy when he had the origional in his hands.  And Launch Octopus is the X series and does not apply.  Different type of robot in a different type of series.

Then wouldn't the simplest answer be: "there's only one unless otherwise mentioned and the writers just use them in whatever role they want to use them in." ?

Robots in a museum of robots is such a case.  Because the reverse would mean Light went to great lengths to make sure there would only be one Cutman in the entire world ... to the point of even shutting him down and putting him in  museum ... just to have one Cutman in the world.  And that Wily intended to play hot potato with Gutsman's brain chip in MM1 when he has a legion of Gutsmen at his disposal.

[Slash Man]

Good point.  And yet he seems to remember his encounter with Rockman.  So, even if the body's destroyed and buried Wily still, somehow, gets their memories.  More proof of a streaming backup ... or that Wily went to the trouble of recovering Quickman's memories for that one fight with Rock .... or that it's written like a cartoon.  Standard logic would dictate that Quickman shouldn't remember.  Yet he does.  Clearly we weren't meant to look into the matter througholy.

Well, Quickman was still intact, so it would make sense to go back and repair a broken robot as opposed to building an entirely new one.

[Bag of Magic Food]

or that it's written like a cartoon.

If it were written like the cartoon, the robots would be turned into piles of body parts.  "If you don't take better care of your body parts, I'm not going to replace them!"

"Rockman?" is a pretty lousy example since we have no idea why Wily made that copy when he had the origional in his hands.

I remember an old explanation of Mega Man 1's story was that Mega Man was just too difficult for Dr. Wily to reprogram, and that's why he was left behind.  Maybe that still applies.

[Gauntlet101010]

Well, Quickman was still intact, so it would make sense to go back and repair a broken robot as opposed to building an entirely new one.

Except RaMoon can make them out of thin air.  Why collect all the robots from across the island when you can make them out of thin air?  Creative integrety?  He made them from files in Wily's laptop; that's all he needs.  It'd take him longer just to gather up all the robots.

That's actually the least of the plot holes in SAR. 

If it were written like the cartoon, the robots would be turned into piles of body parts.

So the story with robot boy with a transforming robot dog that (might) talk is written totally seriously...?

I remember an old explanation of Mega Man 1's story was that Mega Man was just too difficult for Dr. Wily to reprogram, and that's why he was left behind.  Maybe that still applies.

Maybe.  I'd like an official explanation.  Still .... I don't think Wily was even trying to make the personality the same.  "Rockman?" is an odd duck.

The general gist of this entire argument is that there can't be two Cutmen because Cutman is a singular character.  But that's not nessasarily true.  There's several Gutsmen, several Rockman Killers, teleporter re-fights, and two active Fakemen!  Everyone's fond of MM9 and it's right there.  There isn't nessasarily one of any of these guys.  That is an assumption being brought in here and the story's being bent backwards to make it true.  Should it cause problems?  Yes.  Does it?  No.  Cartoon ... shoddy game writing ... I mean, let's call it for what it is.  I like the classic series the most, but I don't want to turn it into something it isn't.

[Flame]

I know that this is a different series, but X5 shows that there are 2 Lifesavors.
Ceetain robots might be massproduced depending on their line of work.

[BaconMan]

Or maybe they *all* collect 1ups and get extra lives. (/topic)

[Zan]

You don't follow.  You propose that society finds a place for the robots Wily made.  So, after MM2, Woodman (for example) is put to work.  Suddenly RaMoon comes around and makes another Woodman for his purposes using Wily's brain chips.  That makes 2 Woodmen.  One made by RaMoon, the other salvaged from MM2.

But what Ra Moon did was use the brain chips Wily was carrying. Given Wily's emotional attachment to them, they're the originals Wily created. In terms of society, I don't see them putting the likes of WoodMan to use as they have no purpose to begin with, only those originally part of society would be given a job.

But, when it comes down to it, certain robots are still Wily's property, even if he's an evil mad scientist that steals other's robots, what right allows the UN and the World Robot Union to take his robots away from him? You could define such as theft, piracy and copyright infringement. They would be no better than Wily.

Furthermore, even if they're forcedly taken away from Wily during his times as a wanted man, you really ought to take note of the fact that Wily had their brain chips handy when he was actually working for the UN, so he could have access to even the brain chips the governments took from him. No matter what happened to the originals, we can be sure of the fact that what Wily carries with them are the originals.

So what?  The only difference between MM1 and MM7 is that three of the robots were turned on. 

I'm saying, there might be more than one robot of each type, since even such a robot as HeatMan (who was with Wily at SAR's end) could be found in the Robot Museum, but during the plot, we only should encounter the original as an actual character. Such copies should not be involved with any of the Wily incidents as actual characters, due to strong developer and character favor for the original to be used instead.

As for MM7, I'd say that's the closest thing to an activated copy we got, GutsMan that is. The other two are conjecture until proven otherwise. But GutsMan got converted into something only derived from GutsMan, effectively making it a separate character from the original GutsMan.

So you don't think a museum of technology would actually have technology in it?  I would disagree.

I would think it have displays that depict the workings of the separate parts of each robot, mock ups of each robot to show their design in relation to functionality. Keeping actual working copies of the robots seems to be asking for trouble. Yet they did, the Robot Museum is quite the enigmatic thing in that regard. We simply don't know those robots are, only that they work. If I had to choose, I'd consider them spare bodies without a personality, mindless drones.

And Launch Octopus is the X series and does not apply.  Different type of robot in a different type of series.

It applies completely, since Repliroids can be copied just as easily. Remember Zero? IHX went to the trouble of depicting that these rematches aren't the same characters, just mindless drones. After Octopuld got established, the rematches continued without any conversation coming from any of them. In Rockman Rockman, it's quite similar, every single boss confrontation gets a conversion, yet the robots at the rematches have no lines whatsoever. In sharp contrast to their lack of lines, we have each different Copy Robot and even CWU-01P established as a character. Rockman Rockman heavily favors the fact that those are just mindless drones and therefore, even if they're copies, are not actual characters like the original CutMan.

What I'm getting at is the following, whenever they're depicted as actual characters, they should be the original. (Unless otherwise established that there is a copy as in Rockman3) At any other time, such as the museum and maybe such games as Rockman World and Battle and Fighters, we must not consider any copies as actual character, they'd just be drones carrying out their intended function.

Applying that to Rockman9's Concrete Man, the one chasing Wily is the original repaired by Right, the other at the teleporters is a mindless copy. Otherwise, why is not destroyed from the recent rematch with Rock?

Robots in a museum of robots is such a case.  Because the reverse would mean Light went to great lengths to make sure there would only be one Cutman in the entire world ... to the point of even shutting him down and putting him in  museum ... just to have one Cutman in the world.  And that Wily intended to play hot potato with Gutsman's brain chip in MM1 when he has a legion of Gutsmen at his disposal.

I'm just saying, in the case of this CutMan, which has a personality, memories of previous battles, we should consider it the original real thing, even if that means he's going from good to evil to good to evil again. Concidering anything else should only be done when we have explicit reason to believe it isn't the original. Only for things like the museum and rematches should we consider copies, and then just as drones incomparable to the actual character that is CutMan. The GutsMan army therefor would just be a bunch of drones with the body and strength of GutsMan, but not GutsMan himself.

I know that this is a different series, but X5 shows that there are 2 Lifesavors.
Ceetain robots might be massproduced depending on their line of work.

and two active Fakemen!

I think there is a key distinction between robots such as Rock/X and FakeMan/Lifesaver. FakeMan for instance is a mass produced fake of a mass produced police robot. Again I emphasize, there is only one unless there's a reason to think otherwise. In other words, FakeMan has multiple versions and there's no way to confirm which is which, whereas Cutman from his first appearance to SAR to mm8 is still the same robot, not a copy. The rematch is a copy as it does not speak whilst it should and Right recovered the originals beforehand.

Whether the ones from World and Battle and Fighters are the real thing? Who knows, I never heard them say a thing, it could go either way.

[Slash Man]

Whether the ones from World and Battle and Fighters are the real thing? Who knows, I never heard them say a thing, it could go either way.

Actually, they could just be copies. Just look at what happened to Centaur Man.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Didn't they have voice samples in Power Battle and Power Fighters?

But GutsMan got converted into something only derived from GutsMan, effectively making it a separate character from the original GutsMan.

GutsTank must be the original, though; he just used an enlarging raygun and squatted inside a tank.

[Gauntlet101010]

As for RaMoon, I'm bringing him up because it's your theory (that you brought up elsewhere) that Wily-affiliated robots are put to use after they fight Rock.  In essence you're just proving yourself wrong.  Personally, I'm not entirely sure if Wily's robots are co-opted.

What I'm getting at is the following, whenever they're depicted as actual characters, they should be the original. (Unless otherwise established that there is a copy as in Rockman3) At any other time, such as the museum and maybe such games as Rockman World and Battle and Fighters, we must not consider any copies as actual character, they'd just be drones carrying out their intended function.

That's what you're saying ... but Capcom seems to disagree with you.  They don't have a proglem with putting robots in museums, having mass armies of the same robots in one place, or two active Fakeman guarding Light.  You have that problem. 

You place undue emphasis on the lack of lines in PU's teleporter levels.... now you're using a game mechanism to justify your points (while I was merely joking).  And MavX's scene absolutely, unequivicably does not apply to the classic series.  The X series is the future.  The X series is dark.  The X series has the theme of sacrifice and death.  It doesn't apply in the least to this discussion.  Because the theme of death and sacrifice is central in the X series, it's only natural that death is supposed to mean something.  Somehow.  Individuality is also a theme, especially in X1.  And yet, as you yourself point out, characters like Zero and Vile are revived easily.  This is another debate entirely; how the X series deals with death when they can easily revive any character.  But it doesn't apply to the discussion at hand in the least.  You're going on a non sequiter again.  This has nothing to do with the x series and how copies are handled in the x series.  You only have to look at Wily to see how different the X series is from the classic.  There are many things that do apply in relation to classic and X, but ... the treatment of death and characetrs are not one of them.

And RaMoon actually created the robots from schematics found on Wily's laptop.  There's a translation of the game now, you know.  So let's not keep bringing brain chips up as the end-all and be-all of what makes classic series characters tick. 

You are arguing Capcom's treatment of the RMs as characters.  However, this doesn't preclude them from there being more than one of them.  Fakeman shoots this idea right down.  I tended to think like you did until MM9.  MM1's army of Gutsmen could be an anomaly.  MM5's army could be another anomaly.  But Fakeman provides concrete proof that there can be more than one of these characters.  One's an anomaly.  Two is strange.  Three makes a pattern.  And the pattern is plain when you take into account teleporter levels and robot museums. 

In short it's your need to explain Capcom's fast-and-loose storytelling along with with their side games (likely not considered when it comes to a fine detail like the Cut and Wood easter egg) that makes it complicated.  Because you cannot accept that there can be more than one Cutman (even if one is a deactivated "drone", which you seem to have no problem accepting now) you require a complex timeline that precludes Wily stealing Cut and Wood in MM7 to use in MM8. 

Anyway, if you accept the existence of duplicates then my origional point is made.  There was a duplicate Cutman in the robot museum.  To fit in with your own personal canon, you can think that Wily imputted any brain chips that might be nessasary after he got the robot.  This is the easiest explanation; not a revised timeline to account for Cutman's presence elsewhere.

[Flame]

death is supposed to mean something

X, Zero, Vile, and Sigma would like a word with you.
desth doesnt mean [parasitic bomb] in the X series when they revive like its nothing. extra emphasis is put on death, sure, but its not a strong thing as you imply. hell, even the Zero and ZX series disproves that.

[Gauntlet101010]

X, Zero, Vile, and Sigma would like a word with you.
desth doesnt mean [parasitic bomb] in the X series when they revive like its nothing. extra emphasis is put on death, sure, but its not a strong thing as you imply. hell, even the Zero and ZX series disproves that.

Iris and Middy want to say hello.

Let's not digress from the point.   X =/= Classic series.  Let's keep on topic.

[Bag of Magic Food]

But I want to digress from the point!  Now why did Middy die just because Techno did?

[Flame]

Iris and Middy want to say hello.

Let's not digress from the point.   X =/= Classic series.  Let's keep on topic.

this is RPM. topics are destined to go off track for a few pages.
Iris Middy and techno are characters whos (sadly) only role is to influence the main character. iris was to make the stone cold Zero cry like a baby, which worked... and effectively has scarred him for life and doomed him to never have another relationship ever again,
and the other two were to spur X on to fight Sigma.

But I want to digress from the point!  Now why did Middy die just because Techno did?

because some genius decided it would be a good Idea to have two reploids share 1 CPU.

[Bag of Magic Food]

And they wouldn't have to be conjoined to do that?

[Zan]

As for RaMoon, I'm bringing him up because it's your theory (that you brought up elsewhere) that Wily-affiliated robots are put to use after they fight Rock.  In essence you're just proving yourself  wrong.  Personally, I'm not entirely sure if Wily's robots are co-opted.

How can you prove yourself wrong? There's such a thing as changing your mind you know... Besides, I never once mentioned Rockman2 robots as working for the goverment, they're Wily's combat robots. The Rockman3 guys are the ones that might be put to use by society. But that's only under the aforementioned limitation of having approval of the creator(s), unless they want to just ignore Wily's say in the matter. And even then, SAR Wily was on a UN mission, he had easy access to all his robots good and bad alike! No matter how you see it, there's a way for them to get back in Wily's hand no matter where they end up before that.

now you're using a game mechanism to justify your points (while I was merely joking

Except, Rockman Rockman has scenes for every little thing, yet excluded the rematches. IHX which is similar to Rockman Rockman has only one of the rematches detailed to show how they're not the real thing. All the same, these robots are canonically returned to good guys after their first battle only to still end up as rematches. For those same robots to end up all repaired for the ending that follows immediately after Wily's defeat. Everything in Rockman Rockman hints they're not the real thing. Really, if you're going to see the lack of lines as a game mechanic, you must see all the rematches as a game mechanic and exclude them completely from the plot. Which means they're not the originals, they're not copies either, they just don't exist.

but ... the treatment of death and characetrs are not one of them.

The treatment of death has nothing to do with this. The rematches can be fakes and the real ones can be revived all at the same time. IHX says the rematches are fakes, the ZERO-series has all the rematches as the real thing because revival is so much easier then. Classic is on the middle ground between those. They can be the real thing, but all things implicate they're fakes with no personality. Otherwise, they'd have been a part of the plot talking about how they've been defeated before.

I'll say it again, if the robot is featured as an actual character with no mention of being the copy, it's the original. If there's explicit mention of it being a copy, it's a copy. If there's nothing to establish it as a character, it's the original unless it works out better as copy (like for rematches in RR and R9 Concrete: they really shouldn't get repaired THAT fast for the ending.). Capcom isn't trying to cause mass identity crisis, we must always assume there's just a single one unless there's reasons to assume otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with assuming a copy from time to times, but you should never overuse the notion just because you can't place something like R8's cameo appearances into your perception of the plot. R8 has the originals, confirmed by script. World and Battle and Fighters could be copies, but unless there's an explicit reason why they have to be, we must see them as the originals.

GutsTank must be the original, though; he just used an enlarging raygun and squatted inside a tank.

I see absolutely no reason to consider GutsTank as the original, nor anything in the robot museum for that matter. To go with what I said above, the explicit reason why they can't be the original is because it's just weird for them to be deactivated and put into a museum. The complete make over GutsMan got is another reason why I wouldn't consider it the original. It's just too weird a thing to be happening to an actual character only for it to just be shrugged off and him to return to his original form later.

And RaMoon actually created the robots from schematics found on Wily's laptop.  There's a translation of the game now, you know.  So let's not keep bringing brain chips up as the end-all and be-all of what makes classic series characters tick.

Look at the scene itself! Wily installed the chips he was carrying with him into the bodies Ra Moon created.

Fakeman shoots this idea right down.

FakeMan always was a fake of a mass produced police robot with undetermined personality. Like a more advanced Sniper Joe more than someone like CutMan. You might see two mass produced units standing next to eachother, but you would never see two CutMans like that, unless it was the original facing an evil version of himself. That is because CutMan and the like were always created as individuals and are listed as individuals in the CD database. Fakes made will always be distinguishable by either drone like behavior, a completely different personality, or an outright mention of the fact. I'd also like to note that making copies of special robot individuals is frowned upon by certain robots like Blues.

you require a complex timeline that precludes Wily stealing Cut and Wood in MM7 to use in MM8. 

Wood always was Wily's... And Wily stealing and reprogramming Cut Man again really does not need to be mentioned, Wily can do as he pleases between games. Furthermore, I'll say it again, there's strong implications that these are indeed the originals, from mm1/2 to SAR to mm8. As long as they are featured as THE character, they are the same.

There was a duplicate Cutman in the robot museum.

Except, that's just conjecture. There are two broken glass displays of sort, but the contents are unknown. Wily only escaped with one robot on screen. Maybe the displays were empty, maybe they were Cutman and WoodMan, maybe they were something else entirely. Furthermore, there's a small conflict in the copy - original matter here. You'd be assuming the museum ones are copies, for it's weird to deactivate the original and put him into a museum, but all the same, R8 outright defines CutMan as an adversary of Rock fought a long time ago. Either the museum ones are the originals, Wily really did something weird to get that end result, or CutMan simply wasn't taken from the museum and instead has another simply origin.

Iris and Middy want to say hello.

Let's rephrase the statement; death doesn't mean anything unless they want it to. For instance Iris and Middy are written to have damaged brains making revival tougher. It's also written in that DNA revival is against the law. Which pretty much means everybody else can just dodge these matters and revive as they please.

[Flame]

characters who have 'mysterions" revivals. because no one sure as hell knows who repaired X or Zero after X5, and in X2, Zero's parts were rebuilt by Mavericks, and when you think about it, he never really did because his brain chip was still intact. i think....
Zan? does a robots brain chip surviving technically count as not really dead and legaly give them the right to be revived? eg Zero...
 I would think so, but Im not sure.