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I haven't been around this board for months. Other responsibilities pulled me in other directions, and eventually this just became an outlet to vent nerd rage, often when I was already frustrated at something else. My apology. I don't expect anyone has missed me too much anyway.

Old habits die hard, so I'm driven to say this to you, the only ones I think might understand. I think I've outgrown Mega Man. I've come to accept that Mega Man will not become what I want it to be, and that there are better things I can be doing with my time than spending time debating its loose fiction and encouraging hopes that lead so often to disappointment. That is not a slight on any of you who still wish to do such things. If it can still be just as fun for you as it once was for me, more power to you.

Capcom's latest antics with pulling out of both Legends 3 and Universe is making walking away all the easier. I admit I didn't participate in the Devroom. I've been too busy to, and I don't have the talent to enter all their art contests to begin with. I still thought it was a great effort on Capcom's part, but I somehow just couldn't quite believe it. Sure enough, my doubts are fulfilled. I went to Capcom-Unity today to see the mess that has become of this franchise. Ironically, you can still join the Devroom and get a Servbot number, even after the project is pronounced dead. I am number 4245. Some good that does.

Mega Man will limp on, in a few months to a year we'll have new Mega Man game announcements. Fan rage will blow over and life will go on. If you guys stick around that long, I'm sure it'll come. But me, I just don't care anymore.

Farewell, old friends.

If you have an official description, then quote it.  Don't simply offer a paraphrase of gameplay effects, that doesn't prove your point.

I forgot how most of my time spent with you guys is simply catching you up to speed to effect a reasonable conversation. Thanks for reminding me why I don't drop by more often.

One example of many:

Plasma Shot:
This special charge shot emits a giant plasma blast that generates a ball of electricity on impact that shocks enemies for additional damage.

And I believe you already have access to other people's translated resources explaining how a normal buster and charge shot works available to you to have come to an understanding of how Rock and X's normal busters are always described as solar bullets made from wavelengths of energy from the sun that are condensed, and not being themselves mini-suns or anything of the sort.

It seems like you already figured out why plasma would be attached to elec elements. An equally quick trip to solar energy on Wikipedia teaches that solar energy deals with utilizing light and heat wavelengths from the sun. Therefore we should not be surprised to find that solar energy be classified so often as heat element or even as neutral light element in these games. But the actual science involved is only a half-truth, because how many of these technologies like rock busters actually exist and can be demonstrated in a real lab? It's fiction we're dealing with, and the Japanese masters of these fictional worlds consistently define the device they've invented as working based on solar energy in ways such as the above, and alike with plasma to describe a different set of characteristics as also described. The associated elements are the ones they have chosen. I have many sourcebooks that hold to this convention and quite literally none that oppose this. The Rockbuster is always described as solar energy, and the term plasma only occurs where there is electrical elements at work, making the only overlaps the unique charge shots from special armors such as the one above. Solar energy and plasma energy are distinct because Capcom decided it should be. The sci-fi makes sense, the patten they've chosen is evident even to yourselves and yet you question it anyway, if and I don't know how else to explain it. Quite frankly, it's been gone over enough.

Where this applies to RO, there is the following:
태양 에너지 - This would be "Solar Energy" and a 1:1 translation from the Japanese of what the buster should be running on.
플라스마 - This is "Plasma". If you read the site and thought to reverse-engineer what you had read to apply to the Japanese version, you would arrive at a faulty conclusion contradicting what they had actually set forth.

By what logic can the X-buster not fire plasma when even Zero's bustershot can fire attacks of all elements by the mere insertion of a chip?

The X-Buster can emit things ranging from energy weapons to chemicals to solid constructions with mechanical working parts. But these are all with the use of special weapons or upgrades. And generally in those instances, the only time these changes are shown are within charged shots.

When we consider that Axl's display of VWS is in fact based on different weapons instead of a single weapon somehow changing its output, how is VWS by plot instead of gameplay, no longer unique?

In X7 this involved many using the same weapon, and all of which using the same basic form as X. But more importantly, the X Compendium and X7 books explain that AXL has the same special weapon ability X does. And by the second trailer, he's present in RO even if not a playable character. And then there's Duo. And Rockman, whom maybe they don't have information about... but I think we will find that they do. VWS is all over the place. I would be more impressed by their attention to fine "details" if they didn't overlook them so regularly.

Another example I was considering while on the subject. The very idea of Duo punching people out is itself but a nod to Ariga (which they got long before we did). Fun and silly, but how practical is it? Would Duo as a warrior for justice seriously start punching friends and strangers for white lies? There is so clearly a pop culture element involved in these biographies.

Why couldn't it just come with the setting of this far future world? Like Rockman X coined "Repliroid" and "Mechaniroid", like Rockman Zero coined "Mythos Repliroids" and "Bioroids".

I somehow missed that over the course of this discussion, but that makes sense to me.  In-universe terminology can and has changed over the ages.  Certainly this is no more offensive than the general ambiguity of "Sigma Virus" when used in retrospective text.

Sigma Virus is confusing, but it is also explained already and thoroughly in sourcebooks that the reason behind the name came from Doppler, and was named for Sigma. If RO explains in their next blog post how here in the future everyone in this "Rockman" universe calls "repliroids" just "reploids" now and that they in more recent times coined the term humaroid to apply specifically to ________ (since we don't actually have a clear cut definition of what a humaroid refers to at this time) I will be sure to drop by and give you guys a thumbs up.

If the rewriting of time is limited to just the examples you gave (plasma/solar and VWS), I'd say that's pretty minor. Do you have any better examples of contradicting the known timeline?

You already pointed them out-ages of peace after the X series including Command Mission and with no public record of Neo Arcadia outside the cryptic visions of Cinnamon copies. More specifically for Command Mission, there are 1XX years from Zero's initial building and sealing to the start of the Zero series. These include a first sealing of unknown time, a second one following the Nightmare Incident occurring roughly some 50 years at least, and a third lasting a 100 years from the Elf Wars. With over 150 years accounted for with sealings coupled with Zero being a robot from an earlier era that is the same as X's at the very beginning of the series, most of all of this time is spent sleeping and perhaps only a decade or two at most of actual X series can occur in the time that is left. For Command Mission to fit in before Zero's second seal he must have been sealed initially after 2150. Placing it during or after the Elf Wars is similarly disjointing with little intermingled plot elements to fit its era. And we've already talked about all this last time. Oh well.

Let's just say among other word choice, that "regurgitations" wasn't the best one. I would have figured you'd be more amused with us actually reconsidering your own premise.

I just feel like it's the same old thing that goes nowhere without the proper context. It's great that when I'm not around for a while your egos will allow you to see that maybe I had some idea of merit, as long as you don't bring up the fact that I brought you the research in the first place. But I'm just getting cranky. I've got to get settled back in to work. Guess I'll see you guys around.

I'm not talking visuals. I'm talking literal descriptions of the weapon in sourcebooks. Plasma Charge Shot is electronically charged. The Rock Buster and X Buster are both canonically solar powered. Visuals would never be enough.

When did I remotely imply that solar was accompanied by electric?

I would have said when you stated that the distinction of solar and plasma was splitting hairs. But I think you simply misunderstood me in thinking that I was judging by visuals and interpretations, when I was actually talking facts.

http://megaman.wikia.com/wiki/Plasma_Cannon

An electron-charged laser. Still elec.

So by what logic do we assume that buster shots, a non-elemental attack for the purpose of gameplay, are closer to fire than to electric?

By the logic of that is what we are both shown and told. I'm not making the call; they are. Plasma is elec and distinct from solar, which they feel is closer to heat element with robots like Pharaoh Man and Solar Man. Ask Capcom why.

You haven't by chance noticed that in both Classic and Zero, weaponized solar energy is depicted as fire-element?

More often than not: and that is the point. That which is labeled plasma in Japanese is accompanied by Elec element; solar is not (ever). Try to find one where it isn't.

How come I'm sensing hostility from one such as you, who hasn't been around for a while? You've never before entered a discussion in such a manner.

What? I was just happy to see something come up that wasn't old hash. We've talked RPM, we've talked Model A. But I don't recall too much focus on Command Mission, aside from its ill-fitting placement on the ZC timeline. It's actually what persuaded me to bother to post at all. That and ample free time this holiday weekend.

I don't think there's any like or dislike involved.

It's actually all that's involved at the moment.

If this somehow places both Zero's sealing and XCM as part of its past, don't you think that would be interesting?

Naturally I'm interested: they had me at "Rockman." That doesn't change however that RO cannot fit into ZC's timeline at all from what we have seen so far, unless their very actions rewrites time itself.

Technically, they're pretty much the same thing. Feel free the elaborate on the distinction.

Weaponized plasma in this Rockman games has an electrical element to it that is often visually distinct. In X4-X6 Ultimate Armor that amounts to the added hits in the form of mini plasma balls that stay after the first. In Zero and ZX, it's more directly applied to their tri-elemental system (see Model H/HX in particular). Solar bullets as a weapon are distinctly separate from this.

But the point remains that X's variable weapons system is unique among the clone hunters. It started out unique in the classic and X series, and in fact, it should have stayed unique.

Perhaps it should have, but it didn't.

Region has preciously little to do with it, and these being different developers has everything to do with it. Your examples are no different from the contradictions that exist within the X-series in itself. To emphasize that I ask: what was Zero's power source again?

Region and the regional understanding of their audience has everything to do with game development, particularly in this case.
Do you mean to imply with Zero's power source that because contradictions exist within Japan itself, that all contradictions for any region should be ignored? In that case, this entire conversation has just lost meaning. However, I'll just stick to examining the reasons for these contradictions and examining... in plasma's case, and certainly for mixing terms and new ones like humaroids, the region is the red-handed culprit. As far as timeline connection, that is probably the creative vision. Wasn't there an interview with a Capcom director that explained that Pmang brought the idea to them?

But let's amuse the notion of "region" for a second; what if Capcom of Japan brings the title over?

Either they'll adapt all terms and contradictions properly as they did when adapting Cain's Journal, or they will leave it and allow that it does its own thing. I'd wager the latter.

So now everybody loves branching timelines, eh? Too bad they don't work very well in RO's case.

Maintaining that there is a language barrier, but even so, the details of the past and present described for Rockman Online are simply bits and blends of everything else. Examining the details exposes several inconsistencies. Zero's Z-Saber is certainly poorly worded... or more likely, poorly thought out as an explanation to what we actually see in the X series. But it pales in comparison to the inconsistencies within X's workup.

Not only do they maintain that the X Buster uses plasma power (where it should be solar everywhere outside of the Plasma Charge Shot), but they also comment implying that the variable weapon system is nigh incomprehensible and unique, when not only Axl, but Duo in Power Fighters as well had demonstrated this same power (and ergo, his "types" should still have it).

One could say that since their understanding of history is from a standpoint from a hundred or more years after the fact, hereby confusing or blending some details of their own past. In that case there is leeway, but at the same time nothing of their version of history can be taken at face value for application with the other series anyway. And moreover, that should not be the case where technology is reproduced, as in cloning X's DNA shouldn't change his buster standard from solar to plasma. Plasma in this case is something even minor enemies like that camo-met are said to use, and it's probably the influence of the Ruby Spears cartoon and so on unto their regional expectations of terminology (everything is a "plasma shooter"). Like the intermingling of "Rockman," "Reploid" and "Humaroid" they are making a game for the Korean region based on Korean understanding and expectations, as well as their own imaginative direction. Their details align and conform for that purpose-applying the game characters and details they want to use. I believe they are not interested in being Japan-canon or any other region.

My conclusion? Rockman Online exists as its own distinct canon. It clearly takes things from the Rockman, X, and Zero series, but it does not work in reverse-nothing we learn from here applies to them. What we know of RO's past is only what we have been shown or told, and nothing else. If they intend a time-space cross-over or dilapidation, they will explain it that way through the course of their story. I would not have you stop speculating on where or why, but the fact is it's pretty much up to them and there will probably be no logical way to deduce what they will likely choose on their own whims. Nor will we be able to gather any but the broadest of details on timeline occurrence or character backstory from this--details we by and large already knew, or had a sense of but at the same time cannot confirm or deny based on RO's stance.

As such, the question I must raise... does X7+ Zero acknowledge himself as a host of the virus?

This probably refers to Zero's rather irritatingly ambiguous dialogue with Layer in X8. People tend to see in that what they want.

One thing that interests me here is that they acknowledge Command Mission alongside Inticreates' scenario of host Zero and Sigma Virus' deletion by X to end the Irregular Wars, without inevitably leading into Rockman Zero

Zero as the initial host of the virus was the X series' idea. Inti just complicated it by saying Zero was still actively spreading the virus the whole time-something that Rockman Online has yet to acknowledge. Or X7-onward for that matter. For the rest, if the good guys don't win, humans are in trouble. Subduing the Sigma virus in some way is the only way to have that peaceful future world. Not permanently, apparently, since the threat has now re-emerged. X (and probably his friends as well) conquering and vanquishing that evil is an easy way to transition into the story they want to tell. It's just a loose blueprint to a happy ending for the X series.

What surprises me about those visions is that "centuries after X and Zero died", shouldn't that mean RO takes place during the alternate timeline equivalent of Legions, instead of Neo Arcadia? Neo Arcadia should have been blasted to smithereens 1XX years after Zero learned he was the host of the virus. I guess Cinnamon isn't having visions of the same year in this alternate reality.

The translations I read used "ages." What is an age? 30 years? 50 years? A hundred? A thousand? They probably don't want to clarify.

Whatever the intend to do with Neo Arcadia will be interesting and probably self-contained with its eventual explanation (and still won't be canon to Rockman Zero).

Amusingly enough, X7 speaks of Axl changing destiny with his appearance, got to wonder how that relates.

On the one hand, probably nothing, since that was a fanciful translation that does not appear in the Japanese version. On the other hand, it'd be impossible to tell whether RO's creators are working from English-Korean translated source or Japanese-Korean translated source or both. So to say it had no bearing on their thought processes would be premature.

You know, I just remembered, didn't we see both Right and Wily in the first trailer

Nevermind that, they were on the main rosters for the good group and the evil group respectively since the initial introduction. How ever their past selves, robotic selves or cloned selves will function in this game is a central puzzle piece that is still missing in all of this.

On that note, one has to raise an eyebrow at RMO's use of Force Metal and continuing to acknowledge its possible side-effects.  This is something which showed tremendous promise and yet, presumably due to its dangers, is all but forgotten in Zero/ZX.  The older Energen crystals remain dominant despite their poorer performance, even during times of energy crisis when failure to explore other options leads to mass race-killings.

Thank you. This is more interesting than Zan's regurgitations of things I already said in our last several branching timeline/Model A discussions, and I think it could well be either that:
1. Cause and effect A - Force Metal use for reploids is forbidden due to the dangerous nature proven in CM.
2. Cause and effect B - Force Metal has already been used up due to its finite nature of coming from but one singular asteroid.
3. Branching effect - The meteoroid fell but in their timeline nobody ever studied it because they were too busy having Elf Wars.
4. Complete break - Force Metal does not exist in their timeline at all.

Actually I'm going to have to agree. Now that it's established that the virus was generated and exists separately from Zero, and that it was spreading into the surrounding area, Zero should be benefiting from said effects. Mark this down as the day Marshmallow says Hypershell was right.

I'm swamped IRL, I've got maybe a half hour to be online, and I'm still trying to digest now that some obscure Korean game wants to bridge the Classic-X gap. Seems like things change in the blink of an eye around here.

If Inti wanted to undo their implications about the sealing being after X6, they should have taken out the blurb in X's profile talking about that. I don't know why they dumped the timeline, but the other profiles they kept are the same.

I'm just skimming through these, but here goes some info: the bio for Copy X and the Guardians agree that the guardians were made from the split portions of X's soul. Copy X's goes into how they planned to put X's Cyber Elf into copy X, but emo X didn't want to and ran off to sulk somewhere, so Copy X is what they wound up with. I'm not sure if that means they intended to put all 5 parts of the soul back together and without the fifth piece they couldn't, or what. Elpis' bio confirms that Project Elpis was the plan to use the Dark Elf and Omega together to exert complete control over reploids. Dark Elf's bio says she's a creature of instinct and emotion with little reasoning ability that needs to be directed, but I think we figured that out already. Omega's mentions that his antivirus equipment is actually imperfect, and I wonder if that doesn't mean that original Zero's is as well. We already know that the virus has effected Zero's mind before, so it isn't that big a leap, but somehow I found it revealing to see it on the page. Anyway, it seems that's in opposition to X's perfect antivirus system, which is perhaps unique to him. Or him and Copy X? Speaking of whom, according to the Judges' profile, it was Copy X mk-1 who gathered them from their various jobs and established the 8 of them as the Neo Arcadia Inner Council, I think it's implied that he did it in order to help him convict innocent repliroids of irregularity to justify his actions during the energy crisis. It doesn't say in this bio, but I thought it said in other places that they didn't have human forms until Vile came along... That's all that's really new I guess, I don't think the Z4 character bios are saying anything we didn't already know.

I'm not even getting the game this week, so you guys will have to let me know. Did they include anything from the ZC site in the game's manual, or did they use the MMAC and MMXC method of copying and pasting the story from earlier manuals?

jGonzo says that the BN4 connection (EXE viruses in cyberspace) works like the eReader cards do in this game. Did you come across any way to unlock that, Vix?

After checking a little bit with the Japanese version of R10 (via YouTube), tracks 2 and 13 are taken word for word from the game's script itself. Track 22 is of course a Dr. Wily monologue, first confirming to himself that Robotenza has been spread around the world in accordance with his plans, and continuing that before he kicks off the next phase of his scheme he's going to take a last rundown of his current robot ringleaders. The details of their specifications and backgrounds seem largely the same as their bios that appeared on the R10 official site and various news sites. At the end, Wily gloats something about how he'll finally get his revenge, and that this time his plan is better than perfect and the world will finally be his. I'm still not entirely sure whether that means that Wily was faking the whole "the robots stole my machine!" thing or if his plans went terribly wrong for him right after this point. But between this track and the manga I'm thinking it was probably all a lie for Wily to gain access to Right's lab once again and make sure that Right didn't have a cure in the works and that Rockman would exhaust himself and become infected and helpless before Wily announces his takeover scheme to the world.

Enemy names from the R10 Image Soundtrack:

Mechapitchan (pun on mecha and pitching-chan) - baseball throwing robots
Kaona-geeno (pun on "Kao nagee no" or "did he just throw his face?") - head chucking ssnowman robot
Bomb Potton - bomb-dropping bug copter
Marserker (maybe a pun off "masaka"/"no way!") - hopping axe robot
Shottem - flying ball-spitting helmet robots
Yombain (pun off "yon" and "bai" or "times 4") - the square robots that bifurcate
Bari III - the platform-headed pole robots
Dahspider - spider robots
Neo Mettool X - walking mets
Neo Heli Mettool - flying mets
Nu-Mettool (pun from "numeru" meaning "slimy") - slug mets
Moremole - boring drill robots
Kaettekita Machine Gun Joe ("Returning Machine Gun Joe") - you know
Searcher - searchlight robot that changes the direction of conveyor belts
Shrimpurge91 - shrimp robots
Trio de Toride ("toride" meaning "fortress") - TriCastle mini boss
New Classical Cannon - big round floor-mounted cannons
Haiker N (pun off "haikan" meaning "plumbing") - flying pipe robots that look like tellys
Arigock G (pun off "arijigoku," an ant larvae pit) - the red ground-based spitting robots
Pointan - computer mouse pointer robots
Sprinklan - spiky floor patrolling spring trap robots
R Suzy - this game's Suzy robot variation
Tsurarestamp ("tsurare" means "to be lured") - giant stomping robots
Swallowegg - jet birds that launch egg missiles
Kargor Q (pun off "kago" meaning "cage" where sport balls are kept ie at recess) - the ball launching cage robots
Separoader (roader that separates) - wheel enemy with a flying cannon on top
Wartriot - missile launchers that move along the walls
Dokkalocker ("dokka" is an onomatopoeia for flopping open) - sport locker enemies
Oshitsuosarettsu - tall shielded robots that rush at you
Suzakk and Fenikk - fire bird duo mini bosses
Fuuraibomb (pun off "fuuraibou" meaning drifter) - parachute bombs that fly out of pits
Shield Attacker T R L - flying robots with shields over their faces
Piledon - orange flying enemy that connects with a base to increase its attack power
Garinkor - hopping spiky enemy
Solar 0 - flowers that shoot beams
OctoPachiPachi - giant Octobulb mini boss
Little PachiPachi - the mini octos sent out by OctoP.P.
Goaliekeeper - giant goalpost mini boss

I think that's it. By the way, the damage data chart is missing that Enker's beam attack can be reflected with Mirror Buster, I think for just 1 damage each.

Vix, what would we do without you?

Manga translated (I'm not describing the events, you guys will just have to read along with the pics)

page 1

ROCKMAN 10 -extra F-

present[ed] by Koji Izuki

Forte: Kick ass!! I, the great Forte, am finally the star of my own manga! You gotta turn the pages from right to left to read it!

Narration: In the year 20XX... The unknown virus "Robotenza" has broken out all over the world. To resolve the incident and help the many robots who're broken down or running wild, a "Vaccine" is necessary.

page 2

Wily: Even my own robots are running wild!

Rock: Wily!

Wily: I was able to make a vaccine to cure Robotenza! But the data for the equipment that produces it was taken by the robots! Please, you've got to do something!

Rock: Doctor, please take care of Roll-chan. I've got to get going!

Dr. Right: Rock!

Dr. Wily: Go get 'em!

Rockman: That whistle?

Blues: There's greater strength in numbers. I'm going too.

Rockman: Blues!

page 3

Forte: All right...

Forte: Today's the day I finally kick the asses of those bastards Rockman and Blues!! Wa-ha-ha-hah!

Forte: They should have been headed this way... Where are those jerks?  Did I go to far and wind up missing them?

page 4

Forte: Yo! Tell me something, before I smash you to bits. Where is Rockman?

Blademan: If you want to know, try asking my sabre.

Forte: Oh yeah...?

page 5

Forte: In that case, I'll let these guns do the asking for me!

Forte: Too bad it'll be a short conversation. I'm just too strong for words.

Blademan: Bring it.

page 6

Blademan: Special sword technique: Triple Blade.

Blademan: Huh...?

Forte: Is that the best you've got? Hah!

page 7

Rockman: What happened here...

Blues: There's no mistake, this is the location that Wily robo was guarding. But, look!

Blues: The Wily bot has already been defeated!

Blues: This is the chip with the data for the vaccine production machine.

Rockman: We need all 8 of those to make the vaccine. We've got to help Roll and all the other robots!

Rockman: Let's go to the next location!

page 8

Strikeman: Take that! And that!

Forte: What, no Rockman again!?

page 9

Strikeman: Shoot ball! Curve ball! Slider and knuckle ball!!

Strikeman: Deadly changeup!! There's no dodging this!

Strikeman: That blade couldn't be... Blademan's!?

page 10

Forte: Who needs to dodge...?  Heh.

Forte: All right... What's next!!! Keh keh keh

Author note: Looks like he's forgetting about Rockman with all the fun he's having...

page 11

Forte (I think): Prepare yourself, you worthless piece of junk robot!

Sheepman (I think): You won't talk trash after this!

Rockman: It's the same here, he's already been defeated!

Pumpman: Uwooooooooo!

Blues: With this many chips we might already be able to create a vaccine prototype.

page 12

Nitroman: Aren't you also one of the Wily Numbers? Why are you interfering with us?

page 13

Forte: You want to know why...?

Forte: Because I FELT LIKE IT.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Forte: Wa ha ha ha!

Forte: Huh!?

Forte: (panting, coughing and sneezing) It... can't be...

Forte: ROBOTENZA!?

Forte: How could I...

Forte: Urgh....

Gospel: Awooo!

Forte: Gospel!

Forte: You say Wily's behind this uprising?  And that you swiped this trial vaccine from him?

Forte: Down the hatch!

Gospel: (Coughing)

Forte: Wha?

Forte: You...

Gospel: (Ngah)!

Forte: You swallow it.

Gospel: (gagging sounds, then a loud gulp)

Gospel: (whining)

Forte: Don't worry.

Forte: That geezer's virus is just a fart in the wind to me.

Wily: Wha... What are you doing?

page 12

Wily: Stop this, Forte!

Wily: Is it the fever from the virus that's driving you out of control?!!

Forte: I do feel a bit feverish...

Forte: But it feels GREAT!  Hold on old man, I'll be knocking on your door real soon!

Forte: GYA-HA-HA-HA!

Wily: Gyaaaaah! Emergency!!

Author note: Sometime later [Forte] heals himself.

-END-

Edit: Besides the manga and the enemy names, there isn't much going on story-wise in the booklet. Most of the comments are about the music tracks themselves rather than trivia about the stages or characters. Although it'd prove interesting with the behind the scenes sort of info with all the comments from the artists. I'll post if I come across anything amazing.

But ZC's timeline does not specify how Sigma got infected. Yes, it says that virus comes from the capsule, but that's ultimately where Zero's also comes from. Even if Zero gives it to Sigma, it still comes from the capsule.

It is pretty specific, actually. Sigma and Zero were both infected at around the same time (literally, "douji ni" could be implying simultaneously) by the unknown computer virus that was explicitly said to be leaking from the capsule in the very same sentence.

X5 also occasionally shows intermediate designs. And these "minor design traits" are fixed within an identical, but colored image within the same scene.

X5 has its own oddities, be they intentional or mistakes. Maybe whoever the scene's colorist was had a better grasp of what things should be when working on that image.

About which Zero are these conflicting sources talking, X1 Zero, X2 Zero, or X6 Zero?

Simply Zero, with no suggestion that the power source ever changed between games. The first source citing an atomic powered engine is from a Cyber Mission guide, so both ideas were presented before X6 came around.

This is you or the book speaking?

All the text in parenthesis there is what is written in the book.

Probably. They didn't supply a picture showing exactly what they meant in the book. Zero's insides don't look quite the same way when shown in X5, but he still seems to have a upper chest gem and a head gem underneath, so I imagine the vague idea holds true. That page is the only place that ever talks about them, so far as I know.

[4. The Secrets of Zero's Body and Abilities]

And this only further establishes Sigma had to had gotten the virus from Zero, not his capsule..

Before ZC's timeline, I would have said it was all but fact.

Sigma put importance on VAVA not just because of his combat capabilities, but also his mental state. By having nearly everyone have defects in their electronic brains, ruins what makes VAVA special.

Because Vile has a natural tendency towards hate, cruelty and violence, no other reploid in the world can also have that trait? I don't really buy that. Though we don't have any exact statistical data, if there are millions of reploids in the world and we say that 1 in a thousand or even less that had a defect in their brains, it can be considered both a rare but not unheard of trait. For every reploid that goes maverick, how many reploids don't? How many of those defects are unique model reploids and not a random error of mass production? How many of them have Special A Hunter combat skills? If Vile couldn't kick ass the way he does, his mental state would be of no more individual consequence to Sigma than the average stage enemy's reasons for fighting. Vile is the right guy in the right place at the right time. He's still special because he's just the right mix of madness and power to shake things up the way Sigma wants, and that wouldn't be significantly diminished whether there's a thousand other defective reploids or a thousand other combat reploids. There's still only one Vile.

Edit: (I totally missed Flame's post)

Also, defect? He has been revived over and over, and he is always the same, and while the initial Vava had the defect in his brain, im not so certain that his subsequent bodies would have such a flaw in their design. yet he remains the same.

Of course, the people who revived him likely planned to use his violence to their own ends, and so probably had in mind that he stay roughly the same way once resurrected. But it's still a pretty interesting basis, the defect is only a flaw from the standpoint of someone who wanted him to turn out some other way. One man's personality defect is another man's proudly unique sense of character.

Whilst that might explain the terms present, it doesn't explain the use of both an X1 and a pseudo-X1 Zero design.

It might, all it would take is for an illustrator working from multiple sources to get a little mixed up on what minor design trait belonged in the picture and what didn't, and for nobody to correct it. Unless Inafune has some inside story behind it, we'll probably never know.

Of course if we wanted to apply a plot explanation we could chalk up the differences to it being an intermediate phase in Wily's style designs, but of course the Irregular Hunter label couldn't be excused in the same way. Zero's buggy memory might be the best excuse to overlook it, since either way it's in error.

The what? Feel free to provide us with more info.

I thought we'd discussed it before, especially since it's part of the same page that says Zero's made of Titanium Z and uses solar energy, conflicting with other sources that say atomic power. Maybe I skipped some of the details though, so here's the whole section.

4. The Secrets of Zero's Body and Abilities

He possesses abilities no less amazing than X's, and with just as many mysteries surrounding them!

Zero self-destructed in "Rockman X", only to be revived by Sagesse in "X2". (That's the reason for the design changes around his shoulder area and such.) His power source is solar energy like X, while his body material is comprised of a Titanium Z alloy, and is equipped with peculiar mechanisms called the Z-brain (the head lens)  and the Z-heart (the chest lens), which conceal an unknown power.

Marsh & Rod presents... X8 (in COLOR)

Sigma:
So we meet again, Zero...
How fitting that none other than yourself should bear witness to the end of the world!

Zero... the inherent ultimate destroyer.
The virus I acquired from that DNA allowed me to lay siege to this world...

And, so... you could say that's when it all began,
the beginning of the end of everything, don't you agree?

Zero:
How much irregular bullshit do you expect me to take...?

But having the majority of Irregulars caused by defected thought circuits removes the special aspect from VAVA. Who for that very reason falls within that small niche Sigma considers irregulars of their own accord.

The early handful of incidents would have little bearing on Vile's importance to Sigma. When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.

Well, if we're going to make some sense of the "1XX years ago" statement.. This image being famous not only for the "Irregular Hunter Zero" label, but also for the many X2 design elements on an X1 Zero. You'd think the creators of the X4 anime sequences would be well aware of either of these things. After all, they're the ones that established X1 and X2 Zero as distinctly different; they're the ones that revealed Zero was originally an Irregular.

You'd also think they'd get the main characters' eye colors right. I'm fine with calling a mistake a mistake.
I think the animators must have been given Zero's old X3 model kit box as a reference (or perhaps some common piece of source material that the model kit's art was also based on), and they used the English from it without giving it a second thought, the contradiction getting overlooked. That box is the only other place I can think of that used "breast" armor instead of "chest" armor.

That reminds me though, I wonder how the "Z-brain" and "Z-heart" lens functions mentioned in the Rockman X4 Saikyou Daizukan would fit into the current scenario. Maybe the Z-brain acts as the virus armor for his mind, while the Z-heart concentrates and converts the virus to boost his power...?

I figured the "first infected" statement works in a couple of ways. Noting that RPM says Zero was perhaps born with it, and that Wily put it inside of him, and going with the X4/ZERO1 radiation symbol, I'd say it's likely that Wily had indeed tried to infect Zero upon his creation. Either to test the virus' workings on Zero's psyche, to gradually build up his immunity, or to strengthen Zero by use of the immunity. Leaving us with a Zero that does spread the virus, but has yet to be infected to facilitate the change to good. Zero can after all be infected many times, only for his immunity to counter that infection, until the moment that his immunity is breached and the virus reaches his brain.

Niiiiiice, Zan. Perfect. Cut, print, that's a wrap.

I still wonder about the details of Sigma's own infection. Can you clarify what Sigma himself said in RockmanX8?

I'll see what I can do when I get back.

I think doing that would have conflicted with the established concept of "irregular of one's own accord" presented with Sigma, VAVA and Lumine.

I think it would have fit fine. Some reploids already didn't need a virus to be jerks.

Then you'd be surprised to know there are other schematics in that same scene which read "irregular hunter".

We're not going to have to try to account for that famous flub, are we?

I wouldn't say resurfacing. With the ZC Timeline, we effectively establish X4 evil Zero as clearly different; X2 and X5 were the first times we saw Zero's true self. Which demands a review of "???"'s remark about Zero having forgotten what he should be doing upon his X5 awakening.

Indeed, the berserker bloodlust is controlled and focused when he awakens, yet the brutality and remorselessness shines through. It surely can be considered a third stage of personality for Zero like never existed before. The way I was thinking of it, the memories and broad evil aspects of the first personality resurface, but rather than acting as a wholly separate state of consciousness from Hunter Zero and returning exactly as it existed before, the evil persona merges with Zero's current mind to become the Awakened Zero. But certainly there are other ways of looking at it now.

You've got to wonder, how does that equate to Zero's "body" being "purified"?

In the context of the dialog, Sigma was discussing how Zero received a power boost from the virus. So maybe he's simply referring to the greater power output that the virus makes possible. Beyond that, perhaps the viral strains attuned to the form of Zero's body like the Zero Virus could be designed to make certain "purifying" alterations. That's probably the best I can think of that could fit within the context of my questionable hypothesis.

MMZOCW, both within and outside of Three Keys, says that initially Zero was the only one infected before explaining this matter. Combined with RPM's hearsay, I feel we really need to reconcile this with the ZC Timeline.

I tried to work around this to meet them halfway, by suggesting that the virus is encoded in Zero's DNA (even though that doesn't quite make him "infected.") The way they laid out the timeline, Zero simply cannot be the first infected. He can be among the first, he can be the earliest infected to still be surviving, but being the actual first first doesn't work.

Unless, we're talking about more than one virus strain coming into play. Certainly Zero isn't the first to be infected with Roboenza (of course nothing prior to R10 should be expected to have taken Roboenza into account), but if they're considering Sigma Virus strains separately, perhaps the strain that leaked out of the capsule wasn't the same as the one they're saying Zero was the first to be infected with. Was Zero infected with something before he awoke, and then after awakening got infected with a different strain? Or did what they consider to be the first true Sigma Virus strain not exist until Zero (and Sigma) was infected with it... but then they went and said that the same strain that leaked out later became known as Sigma Virus, so so much for that. If they had just let those first mavericks be the results of various chip errors or *gasp* free will itself, there wouldn't be a problem here... but alas.

I don't think we can even establish at what stage of construction Zero's at in that image. Remember that X was activated without even so much as a lower body. Zero's "dream" excepted, this is one of the few images in which Zero saw Wily himself seemingly alive, which stands in contrast with the "1XX ago" ZX timeline placement.

It probably can't be 100% established. My thoughts were that the image of Zero we see being constructed in his X5 ending, with no capsule visible around him, might be his equivalent of X's Day of Sigma bouts consciousness during actual creation. Anything involving a capsule like we see in X4 then would then be after Zero proved to be uncontrollable and was sealed. So maybe this was right after Wily got him into the capsule before he lost total consciousness. Or, if Wily was already brought back by the virus and using some artificial form that resembled his previous one, and if that revived Wily was the one who woke Zero intentionally, it could also be a glimpse Zero had while being revived by Wily's ghost. Of course, just because we can't see a capsule in that X5 image doesn't necessarily mean he wasn't constructed in one, and the status of Wily's physical survival is ever in question, so it's all on shaky ground as it stands.

If we're to avoid the simple conclusion that Capcom and Inti's concept about what the virus is and does have simply changed over the years to the point where the old sources are obsolete outright...

I wrote this sometime last week, so it doesn't apply to all the previous discussion in the thread, but maybe it can further discussion. There's so many cluttered and contradictory ideas that the virus is supposed to satisfy, that I had a difficult time keeping it all orderly in my head. So I used lettering and numbering to try and organize my thoughts better, and also make arguing each single point a little easier.

Observations:
A. Zero was "bad" before Zero was "infected." (ZC Timeline)
B. Zero was armored against the virus. (ZC Timeline, also possibly corresponding to the various references to virus immunity)
C. Zero's DNA contains the virus program. (X6, X8)
D. Zero's power grows from virus exposure. (X5)


Hypothesis:
1. Zero was built to protect his mind against the virus. His DNA program contains information about the virus (perhaps a "core" piece of the virus code itself) to allow his automatic systems to recognize it and disperse it safely without doing harm to his cognitive program. Zero's body redirects the "energy/volition" of the virus and channels it into his power output, temporarily boosting his power.

Observations:
E. Zero's capsule emits the virus. (ZC)
F. Sigma broke through Zero's armoring and Zero got infected. (ZC, visually X4)
G. Zero's personality changed due to virus infection. (ZC)
H. The virus can cause the resurfacing of the latent evil personality within Zero (X5, visually X2).
I. The virus can cause aggressive and violent behavior in normal robots. (ZC, R10? all X series?)

Hypothesis:
2. Zero's damaged armor allowed the Virus to bypass his defenses (H-1) and enter Zero's cognitive program directly, causing...
2a. ...Zero's already heightened levels of negative emotions to overload and crash, resulting in a "blank slate" mode with bottomed-out aggression levels. Further virus infiltration can restore the emotional negativity to higher levels, but his body's defenses were restored and resumed their functions of virus suppression. Zero's defenses can be bypassed by access to his brain directly, or become overwhelmed by more virus than it can safely expel.
2b. ...a rewrite to the thought program by reversing the 'default' output levels for aggression checking, like turning a 0 to a 1. In Zero's unique case, because the aggression levels were already full by default, reversing the code caused the violence to recede. A different strain of virus might need to be tailored specifically to Zero to properly undo this effect, but this different virus would need to get past Zero's defenses to do so.  Zero's defenses can be bypassed by access to his brain directly, or become overwhelmed by more virus than it can safely expel.

Observations:
J. Zero is a virus carrier, and spreads the virus while working as a Hunter. (ZC, MZOCW, X6's Gate)

Hypothesis:
3a. Zero now has active virus infection (H-2a) in his brain which tries to copy itself and spread, but at the same time his body's defenses try to disperse the new virus even as it is made (H-1). At a time when Zero is acting aggressively and exerting high energy levels, like with battling with mavericks, his aggression creates copies of the virus which his body draws upon and expels, releasing virus to the surrounding environment.
3b. Zero's armor protects him from outside infection (H-1) but the infection already within himself (2b) occasionally builds up and leaks out. This can also occur if Zero's armor is damaged and his infected insides are exposed.

Observations:
K. The virus can revive the dead. (Ask Inafune, Sigma in X6)
L. The Sigma Virus is considered a kind of Cyber Elf. (ZC)
M. There exists a Cyber Space dimension where all functions of the physical world are manifested as data. (Z3, Telos booklet)
N*. Under certain conditions, rifts into Cyber Space can be created, causing anomalies. (*Conjecture based on X5's Zero Space, X6's Nightmare stage effects, Z3's Cyber Space Doors, ZX's Area M/N)


Hypothesis:
4. The virus, as a cyber elf, exists as a form of bridge between the dimensions of physical space and Cyber Space. Large concentrations of a powerful virus can (perhaps when combined with other factors) create overlaps where data from Cyber Space is brought into the physical world. The virus can be specifically utilized to draw the volition and memories of a departed soul's data back to the world of the living to be resurrected, either by complete error or by direction from someone with the knowledge and resources to do so.

Observations:
O. Wily had a side project in addition to his Zero project. (PF)
P. An ancient virus from space is the basis for the current Sigma Virus. (ZC)
Q. Rockman 10 contains a "threat from outer space". (R10 subtitle)

Hypothesis:
5a. Wily's side project was his creation of the Roboenza Virus, which he spread from his space station. After R10 Wily gave up on using it and stored his leftover virus in the same facility as Zero, where it eventually mutates and starts to spread through the facility and leak out through Zero's capsule, and incidentally brings Wily's data back from the dead.
5b. Wily's side project was a perfect form of the Roboenza Virus, which he continued to refine until his death for use in a new master plan to utilize it in conjunction with Zero somehow. That the virus brought him back from the dead however was unexpected.
5c. Wily's side project was a way for himself to cheat death, eventually using some form of the Roboenza virus as a centerpiece in his plan. Wily recognized the virus' potential expanded much further than just manipulating robots. He intentionally used the virus to resurrect himself upon his death.

I have a feeling these hardly scratch the surface of all the variant pieces of information that need explaining, and all these hypothesis, especially where they build off each other, may be well off the mark. For instance, I didn't really explore the nature of Zero's body changes and possible effects it could have on Hypothesis 1-3. I just wanted to establish at least one way where it might be possible to put it all together into a complete picture. I'll leave it to you guys to pick it all apart.

Reading through, I like some of the ideas in this thread. The virus being inside Zero's capsule to perform some kind of testing, that Wily just didn't shove Zero into a capsule to get rid of him, but to try and bring him around. And the virus perhaps increasing Zero's emotional coldness, where it seems to make everyone else more hotheaded. And that the "W" could still be something outside of the virus infection. I do think Wily has some manner of communicating with Zero during Zero's subconscious states, but I don't think we've ever seen a "W" appearing on his head in any time other than that one instance. But maybe that's because it's never been as strong again since that time.

Perhaps Sigma gets infected by the capsule, but also receives some of Zero's DNA with the immunity in it during their fight, allowing it to infect him uniquely as well? That might satisfy both seemingly contradictory notions about where Sigma's virus came from, but I have doubts whether it's not supposed to be one or the other.

I'll repeat this from our last supra-force argument, because it sounds like still nobody read it:

Sigma in the Japanese version of X5 reflects that Awakened Zero was indeed complete, in personality anyway.
しんのすがたにもどれたのに...ゼロよ。ごくろうだったよ。
"Even though your true form had returned... Zero. Thank you for all your effort."

It's possible that Zero was able to increase his power during the course of the battle, but the evil persona was in place since the Shuttle Mission failure. Hence "Awakened" Zero, not "Awakening" or "almost Awakened."

Sigma finding Zero's evil form incomplete is a poor translation thing.

Moving on, the idea that the capsule was spreading the virus but was not what infected Zero really perplexed me. From my memory, there didn't seem to be much in the way of extraordinary about the capsule other than that Zero was sleeping/being constructed in it. I wanted to go back and see if there were any clues that the capsule was connected to the virus or leaking anything. It could all be a wild goose chase, but here's what I found.



Zero's capsule, with him in it. Since we've been told Zero wasn't sealed until after he was built, we might say that this is his version of the diagnostic/testing phase.



Zero waking up from the capsule, both seeming roughly undamaged from what can be told.



Capsule opened, and empty. After Zero left?



Inside the capsule, Wily visible. This is from the intro/dream sequence instead of the ending. Is this directly after Zero's sealing, or before waking up? I never noticed that Zero's legs were colored wrong before.

So I didn't find much in the way of visible damage to the capsule itself. But there are those cords coming from Zero's capsule in the first shot where we can't see what they're connected to.



Could they be connected to this? Some kind of tanks. The one glowing purple doesn't seem to be connected to the wires, but maybe it's just hidden. The symbol on there is like a radiation warning symbol, except with 5 parts instead of 4. The only other place I remember seeing this symbol was in Zero 1's intro stage, but I don't think it's even visible without using an emulator or cheats.



Could this be some sort of hazardous symbol for robots? If related to the virus, does that make that a virus holding tank? Maybe the virus leaks out from these, or from the cable connections? Maybe there are two types of virus being held here?



Looks like the cables might be going to Zero's head... of course, they could be completely unrelated cables.



The only other thing I thought might be significant, the three tube-looking containers on the right side of this picture. They vaguely remind me of the way the three huge containers in Wily's space station in R10 look, although those aren't explicitly said to be virus containers. It looks like there's yellow and purple substances mixing inside them, sort of like the yellow and purple lights on the tanks. It might be nothing, or might be something.

Isoc and Gate spoke in very different capacities.  Gate admitted that he created the Nightmare based on his research on Zero.  Isoc claimed that the Nightmare actually was Zero, as in, Zero was directly responsible.  You're blending two very different stories together and claiming them to lead to a single end whereas in fact the two are not even compatible, and thus your point could not possibly be more invalid.  Gate's word, and Gate's alone, holds.  Isoc's does not.  The mere fact that Zero exists separate from the Nightmare invalidates Isoc's announcement.

Despite you saying this point is invalid, it sounds like you actually agree with the major point that Zero as the source of the Nightmare was proven... just not by Isoc. You wish to quibble? Lets. Isoc claimed in his announcement that a ghost of Zero was the source of the Nightmare phenomenon. Before anyone knew that the Zero Nightmare was a fake, the insinuation is that this apparition is the Zero who disappeared weeks ago and is now running rampant spreading this menace. Ergo, the world at large is led to believe that Zero is the source of the Nightmare, effecting public opinion of him quite adversely. In the scene where Zero does come back, even he knows that toy has been smearing his reputation, and he's been holed off who knows where. Regaining the populace's faith in Zero's innocence is an uphill battle for the Hunters and not something easily swept under the table due to the very public character attack from his accusers. The whole world's doubts over Zero don't necessarily evaporate immediately after Zero Nightmare is defeated (how and when do the Hunters relay this news of clearing Zero's name to the world?). Even given that Zero and the Zero Nightmare are two separate (though intricately linked) entities, the initial accusation that Zero is the source of the virus is still confirmed, though not in quite the same manner Isoc insinuated.  I think the tarnished reputation and sense of confused hysteria surrounding the incident may add an important atmosphere of distrust in that compounds upon the actual truth behind the matter--that the Nightmare really did come from Zero's DNA. Negative public opinion might even contribute to the decision made by the humans that he should be sealed. That's why I mentioned it as being a relevant step.

Zero himself knew he was gaining power in response to the Sigma Virus alone.  The Hunters did not; Lifesaver was suspicious of Zero's reaction to antiviruses.

Maybe you missed that party, but as I've discussed at Zan's behest before, the MMX5 manual differs from the Rockman X5 manual, in saying that Lifesaver becomes concerned over Zero's virus reaction, not antivirus one. The Hunters recognized that Zero was infected over the course of the game, and the conversation with Signas was over how Zero was reacting to the virus itself. They know he is carrying the sigma virus, and getting stronger from it. But they do not understand all which that implicates, and the immediate fate of the world is at that time more important to Signas than figuring out what exactly can be learned from Zero's unique virus situation.

That Zero can be exploited is old news; it's been happening since X2.  What is key to Zero's seal is when the leap is made from the enemy being able to use him, which the Hunters already know, to Zero's mere presence constituting a threat, which they do not.

The only way the Hunters see him used in X2 is either as a bargaining chip to entice X to battle the X-Hunters, or as an enemy who was manipulated by some manner of brainwashing but defeated and returned to normal (the latter apparently being the "didn't happen" scenario).  It doesn't seem that anyone had an inkling of Zero being the source of any virus at that point.

I'll also put forward this notion: To split the timeline at X6 requires X6 itself to present the split.  It only works if X6 itself suggests it, and the "completed Zero ending" makes no explanation as to why Zero is being sealed.  No additional information is gained while playing as Zero that does not come forward while playing as X.  Thus we have a problem: While it is perfectly plausible for a change in Zero's judgment to bring about an early seal, that is not in the least what Inti told us.  By telling us that it became known that Zero is inadvertently spreading the virus, Zero's seal cannot take place in the middle of the X-series unless that has come to light.  At no point in X6 was that so.

Some things X6 expressed don't seem to be relevant anymore. At the time, the Zero sealing ending seemed best fitted to matching with X's "bad" ending, where Zero entrusts the world to X while he sets off to right something he feels he must do. Of course, the paths leading to those two endings didn't mesh. But just analyzing the Zero X6 ending by itself gives the impression that Zero's sealing is of his own choosing and entirely voluntary, even to the point where the scientist tries to talk him out of it because whatever it is shouldn't be a problem in his opinion. It seemed at the time that he simply wanted the virus data removed from his body, not so much to be a guinnea pig for Sigma Virus research. We're told his coma would last for 102 years. Following ZC's site, it sounds like Zero's decision could have been made for him, the emphasis is put on studying him over simply removing what was troubling him, and the 102 years thing has been questionable since MZOCW revealed the double sealing in the first place. These general discrepancies exist among the ending itself and what the Zero series backstory portrays as having happened. I believe these all are likely the result of the changing nature the Z series story development took between Z1 and Z2~ZX. When X6 came out, all of this was completely unforseen. The RPM book left this open and unanswered, perhaps simply because they didn't know how things would pan out yet themselves--the directions that both X7 and Z2 would take were still up in the air.

Zero actively spreading the virus might be one of those incongruities that changes/overwrites our past understanding of events. We may not have actually seen them run the tests that showed Zero's capacity to spread the virus in X6, but Cap/Inti still may have decided such a realization occurred in the Nightmare Incident's aftermath. We're already being told that the X6 seal didn't happen the exact same way we saw it happen. We don't have to wait for further explanation in the X series if this is that explanation.

By refusing to name MMZ's century (something I have brought up repeatedly and you have been either unwilling or unable to explain), Inti has still maintained enough leeway that the X-series can do whatever it wants without dropping any games.

They apparently shied away from naming MMZ's century in press materials from the get-go, although Higurashi seemed to think he knew when. Maybe they didn't name it because it's always been their policy not to. Maybe they didn't because of the potential span with when the pre-X1 series events begin and when and for how long Zero's X6-ending sealing takes place (if longer than the 50 years of testing they presented in MZOCW) with adding in the Elf Wars and the post-Elf Wars seal, things could be pushed in their extremes to 23XX. Or, they could be leaving room to include X series games. Even though they are vague with the century, the 1XX years ago usage itself makes it difficult indeed to include Command Mission at all without great delay of the series' beginnings and very minimal estimates for all Zero's sealings, as we all quickly realized. For that purpose it would have been much better to use a timeline like the one in MZOCW where no relative dates are given. Just events in an ordered manner.

Even if they were to split, XCM limits the main X-series to 21XX anyway, not that a date change would accomplish much.  And killing the heroes?  Nobody in their right mind does that with a playable character, lest we get the suspiciously similar replacement for the fans to [sonic slicer] about.  If Capcom were honestly open to that they would have had X take the series solo at X6, but they know better.

For character death, I was considering a grand finale option. Like how they almost wrapped things up in X5, except here their deaths would have weight and meaning because Capcom/Inafune wouldn't be planning thier resurrections before the blood is even dry. Perhaps something even more epic than Ragnarok (or for X, I don't think it would be too hard to find something more appeasing than  Elpizo stabbing him). They could also just keep going and extending past even Command Mission's 22XX with no limit in sight. It all amounts to a chance for them to do things differently this time around.

That wasn't my point, though. With a split timeline, the ZERO-series backstory and the current storyline arc in the X-series would occur in the same span of time. In that span of time, the major elements which are reused from X8/XCM to ZXA, from ZERO to X8/XCM, very much acknowledge a similar history, even if there are key differences. We can never see X7~XCM as wholly mutually exclusive from ZERO/ZX.

Maybe I still don't get what you're saying, but if we're ever (more explicitly) told that the branching timeline system is what they have in mind, then mutually exclusive is exactly how we should see those games. Do you mean that they're like X's good ending vs X's bad ending in X5, where either road can be taken, and we assume that knowledge we learn in one (like X's dream of Elysium) still applies to the other, even if not expressed? More or less negating the possibility that the Zero series backstory/accounts of events differs at all from the earlier X series accounts, like I suggested the possibility of earlier? If that's what you're saying, it does make sense, only we'd still be left with the apparent inconsistencies that new materials have brought with them. It's all really just a question of what Capcom's stance is about it all.

In other aspects of this site's summary, details are sorely absent, though. And it's the lack of details that's causing contradictions such as Light's age at the time of X's creation. Reconciled with our understanding of the series, we take it to mean that Light incorporated the virus countermeasure idea because of events similar to Rockman10's, into the project to create X, which was already conceptualized as early as Power Battle, but would not be completed for such a long time that Dr. Light would die of old age shortly following X's completion.

That's one solution for that problem. Another might be saying that MHX is canon to the newer X series but not the Zero series. From the original X1, we only know that Dr. Light wasn't expecting to live for another full 30 years for the tests to finish. Without the imagery from Day of Sigma, Light can seal X as a younger man than was shown there. Of course, this is a good deal more complicated than the above solution. I do think that with or without a split timeline, saying it's X's design blueprints and not his construction that was completed around MM10 is the easiest solution.

I guess even that is getting ahead of ourselves, since even though it seems the most obvious solution, nothing but the subtitle has thus far connected that Roboenza is the computer virus from space. It's certainly a logical step to make, but...

And the opposite is also true; we shouldn't outright deny the relevance of these games toward the ZERO-series, in a either a split or non-split timeline for that matter. Whether a split has occurred or not, even if that future is never ever reached; the ZERO-series influences the elements of the X-series, and the X-series influences them right back. Even if an alternate one, these visions of the past and future paint each other. From the appearance of Orbital Elevators in X to the use of copy abilities in ZX and so on.

And Classic, X and Legends influenced EXE, and Star Force 2 seems based around Super Adventure Rockman, but drawing and sharing inspirations is irrelevant to whether or not the certain games tie into an ordered system. No doubt they draw influences, but are the plotlines literally connected and leading from one into one another? That's the value relevant to the discussion. Some of them could be: but how can we say for sure they are? That's why I say we need more information to make the judgment. Unless that judgment has been reserved for the fans to interpret individually, as other things have been said to be.

But also the same Inti that desperately included X6 into a story which was supposed to go from X5. Strange they would turn things up side down for one X game, then not bother with subsequent X-series titles at all...

The ending seems entirely written for the purpose of leading into the Zero series, so perhaps it isn't that strange. I imagine that since it was the Capcom team that came up with that ending, it was Capcom's decision for the Zero series to utilize it for the lead-in. Capcom retconned X5's endings to make X6 in the first place, and maybe a splitting of the timelines also falls to them. Inti does have to get their approval with the things they do with the franchise, is my understanding. No blame should really befall Inti that isn't shared with Cappy.

Considering Inti said the complete opposite in this summary, it never crossed their mind. Rather, the opposite, Sigma Virus countermeasures in X, who's the originator of the suffering circuit. Of course, there's a lot to say for the fact that other Repliroids lack these countermeasures, and have a less than perfect suffering circuit.

That's contemporary conjecture, not from the standpoint of the times. The virus turning Zero good was a radical and unheard of idea in 2006. When you're talking about the virus turning Zero good back then, it could just as easily become a Suffering Circuit program "virus" leaking from X's capsule that spread to Zero and infected him. The use of the suffering circuit to make reploids question whether either side is truly right or wrong is exactly the kind of thing that could turn a bad violent dude into a thoughtful justice-driven guy. But this was dismissed by us back then because we dismissed the premise, that the virus turned Zero good. Up until last week or so, we were still rejecting it.

Now we're told in an official capacity that Zero was turned good by the virus. We have other call to dismiss that particular aspect of suffering circuit's role as a direction that was not followed, but we can not say that years before MM10 was around that Inti was not thinking of taking things in that vein. The idea that the suffering circuit is in some way part of X's perfect virus counter-measure is itself still conjecture at this point.

But see, by bringing to light what the Hunters knew prior to X6, you only establish what Inti is not talking about.  For them to reference the Nightmare incident, and not Eurasia (which is already mentioned in this timeline, not to mention a major contributor to the storyline of Z4), says that something beyond what the Hunters had established in X5 came to light.

The passage in the timeline seemed to already lay it out for us. The conditions were these:

"The Nightmare Incident" occurs, an event where a subspecies of the Sigma Virus that attracts attention as the Nightmare Virus spreads throughout the world. The fact was proven that Zero was it source, as he was a carrier of the Sigma Virus, and was contagious to his surroundings as he worked across the world as a Hunter.

Zero as the source of the Nightmare was expressed first by Isoc to the entire world, then confirmed by Gate himself to the Hunters. Zero was known to be a Sigma virus carrier by the end of X5, but Zero refused to get fully checked out at that time, instead pressing on until the battle with Sigma was settled, and subsequently disappeared for the weeks leading directly into X6. The last issue, that Zero is contagious to his environs, is the only precursor that we might be able to toy with. Even though they knew Zero had the Sigma virus in him and was the basis for the Nightmare, it does not necessarily lend itself to believing that Zero is contaminating the world around him. It is a logical conjecture based on the first two points, and one would think it was an important question that they would want to be answered, but maybe somehow they missed this key point which is perhaps the most damning to Zero's condition. Zero himself seemed to recognize the danger his very existence presented in his X5 ending where he discovers the meaning of his dreams, but perhaps he's forgotten that information post his revival. Certainly no one treats Zero as though he's hazardous and constantly spreading a deadly virus in X7~on. Perhaps they do not recognize this yet, and the X series will continue until they do. I believe that is currently the best shot for keeping X7, X8, and to a more difficult extent XCM in the timeline. But that's all from searching for a loophole that would serve my hypothesis and refusing to accept the face value of the new information given.

The reason for retcon is to cancel out contradictions, that doesn't mean we as fans have to go about and make those contradictions ourselves. Only when things are absolutely written into a corner is retcon a mandatory answer. As long as we can reason our way out of that corner, then we should do so, and not invoke the name of retcon. Bringing up retcon here is just a cop-out excuse for angry gamers to vent their frustrations at the course a story has taken with its elements.

A retcon is usually the cause of the contradiction that it is supposedly canceling out, so far as I can tell. Capcom and Inti have yet to write a manifesto that guarantees they feel the same way about retcons as you do. The fans weren't the ones who wrote the Zero Collection's page to read the way it does. Inti did not have to group Zero's sealing with the Nightmare Incident in their timeline, nor mention it again in X's bio. But they did. And to be fair, the idea they are either purposefully or accidentally presenting there should be explored rather than outright denied.

If it makes you feel better, don't call it a retcon. Ask whether they ever actually said that X7 and on were part of the Zero timeline before, or whether we only assumed they were. If they didn't state that earlier, then call it a "late reveal" or however you excuse it to yourself.

Rockman Perfect Memories posed the question of how Zero could be sealed in his X6 ending and still appear in X7. It also asked when and how Zero's 100 year sleep (now perhaps reduced to 50) would be applied, which allowed us our leeway to believe that this particular ending would occur at a later occasion at the ending of the X series. The book also said the key to putting things together would be found in X7 when it came out. But X7 was still in development at the time, and wouldn't release for over half a year later.

Perhaps that plan also changed since then, because when it did come out, X7 just made it that much more confusing. It did not say anything directly about Zero's sealing. It gave some cryptic references to be interpreted, like Zero's ending where he dreams of X trying to eliminate him, or Anteator's bizarre "memories of the future/false images of the past" comments that sounded reminiscent to the concepts in the Zero series. It also mirrored Zero 2's intro boss, with how in both stages Zero is forced to battle a giant scorpion mechaniloid. Can we say we understand what message was being sent there? Does Zero's data somehow contain prophetic glimpses into the future, or does Zero dream of the events of a parallel world?

Then came the Compendium of Rockman X, which repeats that the Zero series is thought to follow the 100 year sleep ending of X6, and yet marks the event with a "?" on Zero's personal record between X6 and X7. Not much better for clarity's sake. Is the question mark denoting that it takes place at an uncertain later time, or that the event may or may not take place at all, as in a branching timeline event?

And then we have MXOCW's comment that Capcom artist Higurashi thought that the Zero series was taking place in 22XX, while he was working on Command Mission. Apparently in a parallel world sort of way, since there's not much leeway for Z1 to take place in 22XX if the 100 year seal took place after Command Mission. Was he just really confused about things, or was his thinking based on the already known to him premise that Zero and Command Mission are separate timelines?

Not that it in any way proves or disproves the point, but split timeline theories have been pretty popular among Japanese fans for years (as fan sites like this and this demonstrate). After shuffling through a few Japanese blog reactions to the Zero Collection site, they're having more trouble with accepting things the virus coming from Zero's capsule and turning Zero good, Ciel needing her visor to interact with Cyber Elves, and the Big 4 being parts recent reincarnations of X's partitioned soul than they are dealing with the snubbing of the late X series. Perhaps it's time we unlearn what we have learned and examine why we're trying to prove their connectedness in the first place.

But if they did that here, then to what end?  As a matter of pattern recognition I just don't see breaking from X6 as something Inticreates would do.  As off-the-wall as their storytelling gets, they enjoy throwing obscure references out there, such as B&C and RM&FWS.  They worked hard towards maintaining Legends as the eventual future without writing themselves into a corne.

We're talking about the same Inti that created a timeline split right off the bat for ZX? Vent>Ashe/Aile>Grey's parallel worlds divulged and continued simultaneously into the future, and they don't seem to bothered--they'll get to Legends either way (and perhaps when you're dealing with a connection that's thousands of years separated, the only way they could really "mess up" the Legends bridge is if they blow up the entire Earth Alderaan style, but there might even be workarounds to that). We already know that not every obscure reference is one of canonical relevance. It just puts the obscure references to X7 and such at the same level as the references they made to the EXE series.

X7, X8, XCM would still be canonical to themselves and each other, and X1-6 could continue to be canonical to both X7+ and Zero+. What it would do is allow the X series to write itself a new future, take things in a completely different story direction (which is something they have been doing already, but here could do so without a timetable or future prerequisite to stay within). They can rebuild the world differently than how it happens in the Zero series. They never have to have an Elf War at all, technology can branch out in different ways (like Force Metal and Copy Chips). They could even kill off X or Zero--for real this time!--if they so wanted. Axl doesn't have to disappear. The X series can go on for centuries, perhaps eventually arriving at Legends in its own way, perhaps not. The X series would be free.

To a really push the envelope, perhaps the history and events of the Zero series don't even have to be the same as the history of the X series. By that I mean, perhaps in the Zero series timeline Zero was spreading the virus contagiously, while perhaps in the X series version he isn't. Perhaps while in the Zero universe, Zero was infected from his own capsule by some ancient stowaway virus, while in the X universe Wily put the virus into him on purpose.  I don't actually want to push things that far and make them that complicated, but it would be another potential option for the removal of certain contradictions with past books that we've been given over to. Only, the mess it would make in figuring out what is canon to what series would probably always boil down to "we just don't know for sure, look at it how you want." But there's a fanon element to everything we're doing. If we could create the canon, we'd be Capcom. Instead we just view it and ponder.

Rodrigo Shin awesomely pulled the text from the Zero Collection site, and found the not-yet-opened story sections for Zero 1-4. I'm not sure there's too much new information to be found there, but I translated it nonetheless. I had forgotten some of the details surrounding these games, so it was a good refresher.

レプリロイドを凶暴化させるΣウィルスの発生が発端となり、
長きに渡って繰り広げられた「イレギュラー戦争」。

その永遠に続くかと思われた戦いも、
ついにはひとりの英雄「エックス」の活躍によって終わりを告げ、
世界は復興の道を歩み始めた。

人間が幸せに生活することができるユートピアをめざし
再生の拠点として築き上げられた都市「ネオ・アルカディア」。



人々はようやく笑顔を取り戻せるかに見えたが...
しかしそこはレプリロイドのイレギュラー化を恐れる政府が、
不当な理由で次々とレプリロイド達を逮捕し処分していったからだ。
運良く処分を逃れたレプリロイド達は半壊した旧都市に隠れ、
そこに残るわずかなエネルギーを見つけ出し細々と暮らしていた。
そんな彼らと一緒に暮らす、科学者の少女「シエル」。

レプリロイドの開発に携わっていた彼女は、
政府によりイレギュラーの汚名を着せられ
処分される彼らを放っておけなかったのだ。
ささやかに生きていたそんな彼らにも、ついに政府の魔の手が迫る。
追い詰められるレプリロイド達。
このままでは、みんな死んでしまう。

シエルは、ある場所に今も眠っている
伝説のレプリロイド「ゼロ」の名を思い出した。


Zero 1 Story

The interminable conflict known as the "Irregular Wars" began with the Sigma Virus outbreak that caused repliroids to act violently.

The seemingly never-ending battle finally concluded thanks to the efforts of the lone hero "X", and the world began to walk the road to recovery.

The established center of this renaissance that sought to create a utopia where mankind could live in happiness became the city of "Neo Arcadia".

At last the humans were finally starting to smile once again... However, the government which feared the possibility for repliroids to turn irregular gradually began arresting and disposing of more and more repliroids on unreasonable charges. Some fortunate repliroids escaped being disposed of and hid themselves in the partially destroyed old city, where they discovered some remaining energy resources and establish a meager existence for themselves. Among that group clinging to life was a young female scientist named "Ciel".

She had been working on repliroid development, but she simply could not turn her back upon those who would be disposed for being labelled irregular by the government. They were able to make a modest living for a time, until finally the government's wicked influence came bearing down on them. The repliroids were driven into a corner. With the current state of things, it seemed every one of them would perish.

Ciel remembered a certain place where a legendary repliroid by the name of "Zero" was said to be sleeping even now.

シエルによって復活したゼロの活躍で、
ネオ・アルカディアを統治していたコピーエックスは倒された。
全滅の危機にさらされていたしシエルとレジスタンス達は、
その期を逃さず脱出し、ネオ・アルカディアの力が及ばない土地への逃亡を図る。

ゼロは、シエル達を逃すため、自らを囮とし、ネオ・アルカディアを引き付けた。
その甲斐あって、シエルや、レジスタンスの仲間達は、
ネオ・アルカディアの追求を逃れることができ、
体制を立て直すことができたが・・・


ゼロとは、離れ離れとなってしまった。

あれから一年・・・ゼロのことを心配しつつも、
シエルは、仲間を守るために懸命に働き、
ついに、新しいレジスタンスベースを建設するまでにいたる。

しかし、そのころゼロは・・

Zero 2 Story

After being revived by Ciel, Zero was able to defeat Copy X who had ruled over Neo Arcadia. Ciel and the Resistance had come too close to annihilation, and made plans to escape to a place where Neo Arcadia's power didn't reach.

To help Ciel and the others get away safely, Zero set out by himself, acting as a diversion to distract Neo Arcadia's attention. His gambit worked, and Ciel and the Resistance managed to escape Neo Arcadia's pursuit and reorganize their entire outfit, however...

They had become completely separated from Zero.

A year later... Though her concern for Zero had never diminished, Ciel had buried herself in her work of helping protect her comrades, and at last, the construction of the new Resistance Base was well underway.

But meanwhile, Zero was...

ダークエルフの悪夢も去り、
ネオ・アルカディアからの攻撃も沈静化してきたある日、
レジスタンスのもとに巨大な戦艦が雪原に落ちたという情報が入る。

その現場にダークエルフと同じ強力なエネルギー反応があると知ったシエルは、
ゼロとレジスタンスの仲間と共に調査に向かっていた。

一方、ネオ・アルカディアでは、
統治の象徴であったエックス（コピー）がゼロにより討たれた際、
人間の動揺を恐れ、その事実は隠された。


表向きは何も変わらぬ平和のまま、
エックスの代行をハルピュイアが務め、
実際の指揮を執っていたのだが・・・

新たに現れた謎の敵バイルとその８人の部下「バイル八審官ーバイル・ナンバーズ」
彼らは通常人間の姿を取り、エックス復活後新たに措かれた
「ネオ・アルカディア中央評議会」の理事として、
バイルを補佐している。
だが、それはあくまで仮の姿。

バイルに歯向かった者だけが、その真の姿を知ることになる・・・

Zero 3 Story

One day after the nightmare of the Dark Elf had passed, and even the attacks from Neo Arcadia had calmed, the Resistance obtained information that that a giant battleship had crashed into the snowfields.

Ciel learned that an enormous energy reading similar to the Dark Elf's was traced to the scene, and set out with Zero and her Resistance allies to investigate.

Meanwhile, in Neo Arcadia, the news that the symbolic ruler X (the Copy) had been slain by Zero had been concealed to avoid a panic by the humans.

By all outward appearances, all was peaceful and nothing had changed, Harpuia had taken on the duty of acting on X's behalf to ensure that the status quo was maintained, but...

X's revival marked the new arrival of the mysterious enemy Vile and his 8 subordinates, the "Vile Hachishinkan (Vile 8 Judges) - Vile Numbers", who appeared in the guise of ordinary humans and were appointed to the new advisory board the "Neo Arcadia Central Council" by Vile's suggestion.
But their appearances are merely skin deep.

Only those who defy Vile learn the true nature of their bodies...

バイルによる圧政でネオ・アルカディアは混乱状態に陥った。
自分に逆らうものを許さないバイルは、
さらに戦闘部隊を強化して治安にあたらせる。

人間とレプリロイドは、バイルの支配を受け入れるか、
荒野に逃げ出すかを選ばなければならなかった。


ゼロ達は、荒野に逃げ延びた人々やレプリロイドを、
ネオ・アルカディアからすくうため、
各地で戦闘を続けいていた。

ある時レプリロイドに襲われていたキャラバンを助ける。
キャラバンのリーダー、ネージュは
エリア・ゼロにある人間だけの集落を目指していることを語る。

そのころネオ・アルカディアは新たな作戦を実行に移そうとしていた・・・・・・


Zero 4 Story

Due to Vile's tyrannical rule, Neo Arcadia collapsed into a total state of confusion. Vile permitted no one to disobey him, and strengthened the armed forces in order to maintain public order.

Humans and repliroids faced a choice between accepting Vile's complete rule or chancing an escape to the wastelands.

Zero's group set out to aid the humans and repliroids who attempted to flee from Neo Arcadia to the wastelands, and subsequently fighting started breaking out all over the place. 

Once they helped save a Caravan that was being attacked by repliroids. The Caravan's leader Neige relayed her plan to create a human-only settlement at Area Zero.

It was around that time that Neo Arcadia changed tactics and put a new strategic operation into action.......

So, what does Passy know about Zero?

Got me. They don't mention how Ciel and Passy met, either. Maybe Passy has been around since the Elf Wars and literally remembers Zero. Or maybe she just heard the legend and thought it their best hope.

But Right didn't make the virus!

Thank goodness. But does that mean Inti didn't consider making it so?

What about the statement in RPM about X7 and being in the ZERO-series?

Then this would finally be the answer to the question that the RPM book posed.

There's a ton of what abouts. What about the statements that said Sigma got the Virus directly from Zero? That Wily inserted the virus into Zero, and that Zero was initially the only one infected? What about Zero being a robot like X sealed 100 years ago? How old was Ciel when she built Copy X, and how did the Big 3 die? A retcon is a retcon.

eaning X was created immediately after Rockman10, despite Dr. Right's age? Meaning Zero was made 1XX years before the ZERO-series?

Maybe.

Ciel / Character Voice by Rie Tanaka
She knew. The pain that lied in the hearts of repliroids. She knew. The thoughtless cruelty of the humans. Even though she was a scientist, her words did not reach Neo Arcadia, and the repliroids were disposed of day after day on unreasonable charges. To convey her message, she had to leave Neo Arcadia. Out there they lived their lives together without the roles of humans and repliroids, but simply as true friends. However, those days were not long to last. The screams of Neo Arcadia's gunfire pressed ever closer, in the name of a self-righteous justice. For the sake of everyone who believed in her, she had to take up arms. She was not experienced in the role of a leader. She researched ways for them to obtain the provisions they needed to survive.  But things seemed as a dark and infinite tunnel with no escape in sight. She asked an electronic elf, "Is there hope for us anywhere?" She felt the elf's whisper echo in her heart. She knew she must investigate the "historic ruins."

Actually, the opposite is true.  That Zero is a carrier of the virus was not revealed in X6, therefore, the seal cannot immediately follow it.

The Hunters knew Zero was infected with the Sigma Virus during X5, and at that same time they recognized that while he did not register a "Maverick reading" his power output grew in response. That itself was enough to lead Signas to believe Zero had the virus antibodies inside him, and that itself would be reason enough for the governing humans to want to have him decommissioned and dissected. We saw Signas order this information be kept secret, but some Lifesavers shared that info with X, and who knows who else. And that's all before Isoc announced to the entire world that some ghost of Zero was responsible for spreading the Nightmare virus. Already there was ample reason to want to have him studied, but the situation seemed all but forgotten when X7 came around. Perhaps the Hunters reasoned incorrectly that Zero wasn't really spreading the virus, or perhaps didn't have the manpower to spare him because of X's bout of pacifism to allow him to be sealed. But the X7 story didn't directly address the question of Zero's virus connection or the Hunters' understanding of it, so their government's official resolution to it all is unclear. So saying, a spit timeline theory might go that X7 goes down a path where the government didn't decide to have Zero sealed, while the Zero series follows one where they did.

I still say they could have worded it a bit better as to not make some people think theya re retconning them out.

The thing is, maybe they are. When we hear some of these new statements that just don't mesh or outright contradict with what we were told before an thought we knew, we try to twist the wording to make them fit with our current understanding. When RZOCW came out and MMN (or was it Heat Man?) translated the three keys, and things like the virus turning Zero good, everyone said there's no way that what was written there was what they could have meant, it must have been poorly worded, or poorly translated. But it wasn't--that was literally what Inti meant to convey, and it is conveyed here again.

So instead of just repeating that process of "that can't be what they really meant," and trying to find loopholes by which to hold on to our old conceptions as cataclysm fans have been doing for over a decade, I would rather acknowledge that maybe the wording sounds so much like Zero sealed himself after X6 because that is exactly what they are trying to say. The only thing that can settle this (or make things even more confusing) is for us to receive more information.

So basically, even though the website doesn't mention X7, X8, or Command Mission, you're saying that certain story elements from those three games are still vital to the continuity of the series as a whole. Right?

I don't think there's anything in either of those 3 games that would render the Zero or ZX series nonsensical with their absence from the timeline. Orbital elevators? They never said it was specifically one of the ones we were familiar with, nor is there any reason that orbital elevators can't still be built without happening the way it did in X8. Wily's built one already, for starters. Copy chip technology? Perhaps it was still invented, but Cyber Elf technology overshadowed it as a fad (no need to make virus resistant copy chips with Mother Elf around), or perhaps Albert himself invented it. Model A being based Axl? They never said it was. Albert could have designed it himself. Alternately, maybe Axl did still exist and Albert based a biometal on him, but his role in history was overshadowed by X and Zero's roles in the Elf Wars (perhaps why we've never heard his legend spoken of in the Z series on). There are ample possibilities.

X's bio also mentions Zero leaving after the Nightmare Incident, but of course to that I say, "how long after?"

The issue of branching timelines definitely needs to be addressed the next time we get to ask Inafune questions. But who am I kidding, they'll just ask when (insert game) is coming out and what his favorite (insert whatever) is, again and again and again.