What exactly is the power this thing packs in X5 and X6? Its slow in X5 and pretty meh, but everyone where I've read about X6 says its more powerful. I've notice both seem more powerful at close range, but other than that I really don't see how much energy these things take from an enemy. Anyone got any info on it in comparison to the X Buster?
It is close to that of an X Buster charge shot. Just in X6 it seems to gain more hits the closer you are to the target.
Makes me wish they still had the easy "Charge Shot = 3 Units" system.
That same system used the "Dash Shot = 2 Units" as well. That was fun.
More momentum behind the shot!
It always disappointed me how limited the Z Buster was anyways. You can't do anything with it unless you're standing still.
Except when you fight Zero, He seems to make pretty DAMN good use of it despite those limitations. ]:(
X5 Z Buster is weak and slow as [parasitic bomb]. never use it.
X6 is much faster, and hits really hard. spam it at close range, it can take down bosses really quick. i'd say Z Buster is better than the X Buster in X6, but that's like saying a dog turd is better than the X Buster.
MHX Z Buster is fun to fool around with. it kills Vile in 2 hits.
but X3's is the best.
The Z-buster in X6 is the best buster ever when coupled with the ultimate buster chip. It is really crazy, you should try it.
Quote from: Turian on May 27, 2009, 09:50:04 PM
The Z-buster in X6 is the best buster ever when coupled with the ultimate buster chip. It is really crazy, you should try it.
THIS. Rapid spam Z Buster = "Holy [twin slasher] Batman!"
I'm trying my best to enjoy X6 as I reply through it, but holy crap it is one frikken huge step down from even X5. I didn't know the Ultimate Buster chip could be equiped with it, though.
i never used it.
Quote from: GothamAnswer on May 27, 2009, 09:53:32 PM
I'm trying my best to enjoy X6 as I reply through it, but holy crap it is one frikken huge step down from even X5.
You sure you're not mistaking the overall difficulty difference for the weapons being weaker?
Quote from: Satoryu on May 27, 2009, 07:43:49 PM
X5 Z Buster is weak and slow as [parasitic bomb]. never use it.
and has impossibly terrible range. even x6's has better range
Quote from: Align on May 27, 2009, 10:08:59 PM
You sure you're not mistaking the overall difficulty difference for the weapons being weaker?
This. X6 actually fixed many of the stupid gameplay mistakes that plagued X5.
Quote from: Turian on May 27, 2009, 09:50:04 PM
The Z-buster in X6 is the best buster ever when coupled with the ultimate buster chip. It is really crazy, you should try it.
Ultimate Buster is an X-only chip. you're probably thinking of Buster Plus.
Quote from: Align on May 27, 2009, 10:08:59 PM
You sure you're not mistaking the overall difficulty difference for the weapons being weaker?
X6 has absolutely terrible levels. X5's isn't the greatest, but its alot better than X6's.
to each their own. at least X6 doesn't have a mandatory autoscrolling stage.
Yeah, but thats the worst level in the entire game. Then again.. Alot of the levels weren't all that memorable..
Jesus, how'd the go wrong after X4?
Back on the Z-Buster, it doesn't even go full screen in X5.
X6 had challenging level design. Thats why its good... It overwhelms you with enemies, forcing you to actually use a few of the weapons you've acquired.
dunno. thats just me.
Quote from: GothamAnswer on May 28, 2009, 06:44:25 AM
X6 has absolutely terrible levels. X5's isn't the greatest, but its alot better than X6's.
That wasn't what I asked...
I never noticed weapon weakening between the games. My biggest grievance isn't X6's difficulty, but its level design
Quote from: GothamAnswer on May 28, 2009, 07:48:14 AM
Back on the Z-Buster, it doesn't even go full screen in X5.
it doesn't in X6 either. but i'm pretty sure it travels further.
Okay, I have a question related to this topic. Since Zero 1, Zero has the Bustershot from Milan. From what I have heard, Inti Creates said that the Bustershot was always in Zero´s arsenal even before the Zero 1 occured. I know that the Bustershot is only a design change from a arm cannon to a pistol.
Now to the point. When the Bustershot was always part of his arsenal, then Dr. Wily´s intention was to give him pistols instead of two arm cannons (Omega uses a pistol). Now imagine this with Zero´s first death or his shot on Sigma in the X5 ending. Zero:" X take my Bustershot and defeat Sigma...." for example. Somewhat ridiculous when I watch X, which has still a arm cannon.
Wouldn´t be a arm cannon be more effective than a pistol ( in utilizing of energy wise) and making more sense than pistols? IMO Axl should be the only one with pistols.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on May 29, 2009, 12:11:02 AM
Since Zero 1, Zero has the Bustershot from Milan.
manga ain't canon.
for the rest, the handheld buster acts exactly the same an arm-mounted buster in the Zero series. it's just a design choice.
Quote from: Satoryu on May 29, 2009, 07:38:55 AM
manga ain't canon.
This is one of the extra-games thing, but Creates itself stated circa the release of Z1 (I think around the OST release in its booklet or something) Zero took Milan's gun.
my mistake.
Specifically, it was stated in character profiles on the Z1 Remastered Tracks website.
(http://mysite.verizon.net/Serpentara/takethat.gif)
Quote from: Satoryu on May 28, 2009, 06:23:27 AM
Ultimate Buster is an X-only chip. you're probably thinking of Buster Plus.
Or Overdrive. Kinda pointless on Zero, IMHO, since the X6 Z-Buster rocks all socks regardless, but it's a nifty effect to see.
Quote from: GothamAnswer on May 27, 2009, 09:51:05 AM
What exactly is the power this thing packs in X5 and X6? Its slow in X5 and pretty meh, but everyone where I've read about X6 says its more powerful. I've notice both seem more powerful at close range, but other than that I really don't see how much energy these things take from an enemy. Anyone got any info on it in comparison to the X Buster?
What makes the X6 Z-Buster awesome varies depending on who you're shooting at. Either way the speed beats the hell out of X5's pointless charge-up.
On stage enemies, at close range, a single Z-Buster shot scores repeated hits, causing huge damage. But what I REALLY love about the Z-Buster is its effect on bosses. Against any boss, at any range, the Z-Buster always scores high damage. You can wipe out the likes of Blizzard Wolfang and Sigma's first body without having to even move. Works great on Rainy Turtloid, as well, since it's impossible to use Hydroga on him.
Quote from: Satoryu on May 28, 2009, 07:33:14 AM
to each their own. at least X6 doesn't have a mandatory autoscrolling stage.
part of blaze heatnix's stage? >>
Quote from: Nekomata on June 06, 2009, 09:21:50 PM
part of blaze heatnix's stage? >>
And Gate's stage.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on May 29, 2009, 12:11:02 AM
Okay, I have a question related to this topic. Since Zero 1, Zero has the Bustershot from Milan. From what I have heard, Inti Creates said that the Bustershot was always in Zero´s arsenal even before the Zero 1 occured. I know that the Bustershot is only a design change from a arm cannon to a pistol.
Now to the point. When the Bustershot was always part of his arsenal, then Dr. Wily´s intention was to give him pistols instead of two arm cannons (Omega uses a pistol). Now imagine this with Zero´s first death or his shot on Sigma in the X5 ending. Zero:" X take my Bustershot and defeat Sigma...." for example. Somewhat ridiculous when I watch X, which has still a arm cannon.
Wouldn´t be a arm cannon be more effective than a pistol ( in utilizing of energy wise) and making more sense than pistols? IMO Axl should be the only one with pistols.
Now Zan? Any logical theories?
Gameplay mechanics.
Quote from: Acid on June 29, 2009, 09:20:08 PM
Gameplay mechanics.
Obvious *A wizard did it*-Answers are not demanded or meant to be seen, because we are all smart enough to figure it by ourselves.
Next time more storyrelevant imformation.
The premise is flawed; the bustershot is not just a design change of Zero's buster, it is literally a new weapon because Zero no longer has his old Z-buster. It's a weapon he presumably gained during the X to ZERO interim.
Quote from: Zan on June 29, 2009, 09:33:36 PM
The premise is flawed; the bustershot is not just a design change of Zero's buster, it is literally a new weapon because Zero no longer has his old Z-buster. It's a weapon he presumably gained during the X to ZERO interim.
However why changed Sagesse (Dr. Wily) than the arm cannons to pstols in X2? X uses a arm cannon, so why not Zero?
Inti Creatives.... -AC
Zero always had the bustershot abiliy, but he did not have his weapon. so he used Milan's pistol, which amazingly, s compatible with the Z saber.
Hey Zan, Is it possible that Zero discarded his buster after X6? I mean, afterwards, he never uses it again..
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on June 29, 2009, 09:42:21 PM
However why changed Sagesse (Dr. Wily) than the arm cannons to pstols in X2? X uses a arm cannon, so why not Zero?
Inti Creatives.... -AC
What do Serges and X2 have to do with it? The bustershot comes about AFTER XCM. For the bustershot to exist, the Z-saber should first have Rock Buster Mk. 17 technology.
Quote from: Flame on June 29, 2009, 09:50:31 PM
Zero always had the bustershot abiliy, but he did not have his weapon. so he used Milan's pistol, which amazingly, s compatible with the Z saber.
Not so amazing if (http://forum.rockmanpm.com/index.php?topic=2069.msg117079#msg117079) they were capable of reproducing and upgrading the saber as early as the Elf Wars.
I'd be surprised if they weren't, given that they made Zero a copy body. But the ability to duplicate and the ability to produce on a large scale are two different things.
Zero's Buster Shot (that is, the one Milan was carrying) is supposed to be an older weapon. Possibly the Z-Saber upgrade to X-Buster mk17 tech included the interface to a handheld weapon not specifically designed for him? Whatever their current standard was?
That's the best explanation I can come up with. Although this could easily be dismissed as simple sprite-laziness, Zero's Buster Shot has SOME type of magazine attached to it even before obtaining the Z-Saber, even though it cannot charge until you pick up the Z-Saber.
I would say it has a standard magazine before Zero gets the saber. Though it shoots normal yellow buster shots... whereas when Milan uses it it works like every other resistance gun, like a machine gun. and you dont see the bullets. though that could be simply a gameplay thing so that you can see Zero's shots. and so they dont have to make any differences for it, it just uses the standard shot and when you get the saber, can charge up.
Not in the least unusual. They did the same thing for Grey in ZXA.
The other possibility is that Milan is carrying more than one gun. The "generic NPC" weapons are always two-handed, after all. Same applies to Grey and whichever of the two Hunters he robbed.
Quote from: Zan on June 29, 2009, 10:35:16 PM
What do Serges and X2 have to do with it? The bustershot comes about AFTER XCM. For the bustershot to exist, the Z-saber should first have Rock Buster Mk. 17 technology.
Inti Creatives states, that the Bustershot was always used by ZeroMKII (the one which Sagesse created and which was turned later into Omega by Dr. Weil).
Why should Omega uses a freaking Bustershot, when he has still arm cannons, considering that Sagesse( aka Wily under disguise) gave him those in the time of X2?
Inti Creatives has created in their lazyness a plothole, simple as that.
Or it was Artistic Laziness when the sprites were made. Easier to recolor the sprites instead to redo each with the Buster...
QuoteInti Creatives states, that the Bustershot was always used by ZeroMKII (the one which Sagesse created and which was turned later into Omega by Dr. Weil).
No they don't. Inticreates states the bustershot is from Milan.
In other words; quote or it did not happen.
QuoteOr it was Artistic Laziness when the sprites were made. Easier to recolor the sprites instead to redo each with the Buster...
There is no laziness in Omega's sprites, he deliberately fires the bustershot in a different fashion than Zero.
Quote from: Zan on June 30, 2009, 09:09:40 PM
No they don't. Inticreates states the bustershot is from Milan.
I know that ZeroMkIII got his bustershot from Milan, however the point is, why Omega uses a bustershot, when he has still two arm cannons. Until I don't get the absolute evidence from a new game or Inafune himself, that Zero (before his first seal) dismantled his arm cannons and got a bustershot (the one which Omega use) for a certain reason, I will consider it as a plothole.
Should it be the case, that Zero uses in the next X-Series games a Bustershot as memento to Axl (we know he is absent in the Zero Series and excluded in the Zero X6 Ending. It is spoken of one (X) and not two superior Irregular Hunters(X and Axl)) it would make enough sense for me to accept it with ease.
As a plothole, it should be treated as something unknown, that is, an unstated event during the X to ZERO interim. This is especially true with Zero's buster being deliberately missing in action. You don't suddenly go claiming Zero's been using handheld weapons since X2 just because there's no plot explanation as of yet. Such a weird 'artistic' approach violates everything presented in the games; it really doesn't work that way. Do realize that the bustershot specifically works with the Z-saber to allow for charging. The Z-saber can charge slash thanks to X-buster technology; the MMX-series Z-saber does not have the ability to charge up.
Quote from: Zan
The Z-saber can charge slash thanks to X-buster technology; the MMX-series Z-saber does not have the ability to charge up.
I remind you of Rockman X3. Although Zero isn't fully playable there, he can charge his Z-Buster to release two charged shots. Besides that, his Z-Buster in X1 is compatible with X. It even allows to charge up X's Weapons.
To make a normal story short, Zero's Z-Buster is by default superior to the X-Buster (aka RockbusterMkXVII).
Edit: Even Forte can charge his Buster.
The Z-saber still cannot charge on its own accord. Gameplay mechanics have the Z-saber accessible through charge levels of the buster, never on its own.
The Z-saber's ability to charge is factually based on Rock Buster mk. 17 tech, which it does not have during the X-series. With the bustershot's charge ability based on the Z-saber's insertion, both series are an exact inverse of each other.
QuoteZero's Z-Buster is by default superior to the X-Buster
Plot clearly establishes the X-buster as the superior weapon given X's limitless evolutionary potential. Further lampshaded by the gradual weakening of the Z-buster in comparison to the X-buster. But, even during Sigma's first rebellion, it is the X-buster that's consistently seen as a superior weapon; it's use against that berserk mechaniloid and VAVA's reaction to it exemplify this. What's stronger than the X-buster is not the Z-buster, but rather, X using the Z-buster. And even then, there's clearly something fishy going on between Zero's buster and the first armor's official buster upgrade.
QuoteEven Forte can charge his Buster.
And Forte is made in Rockman's image.
I just realized that I have misread Z-Saber as Z-Buster in my reply. Well [parasitic bomb] happens...
As for the Z-Saber, that it couldn't charge on its own, was in all matters correct.
I think Zero got rid of his busters before X7. I mean, Afterward, they disappear, and even Omega does not seem to have one, needing a buster gun. Though in X4, his busyter was also misisng, and then X5 gave us that crappy one. At leats X6 was decent.
There doesn't seem to be an explanation for it going up and down like it does.
No, there isn't. And it was also missing in both Xtremes, despite the first one taking place before X3.
Yet another anomaly with the Z-Buster is the fact that the design changes between X2 and X3. X5 uses the X2 design in sprites, but the X3 design in artwork. X6 uses the X3 model consistently (barring Nightmare Zero, being reused X5 sprites).
For the most part I think the developers just don't care, as lacking the Z-Buster seems to be their way of cementing Zero's difference from X. Which is a shame, because its absence is especially peculiar in Command Mission, when the gang comes under surprise attack at the beginning of the final chapter. X and Axl are seen returning fire, and Zero is just off-screen doing God knows what.
Zero DOES have 2 Z busters yknow... Its just a matter of the artwork favoring one, and the sprites another.
Source? To the best of my knowledge that's merely a popular assumption.
And the art/sprite favoring shpiel is only valid in X5 because, here's another one to chalk up to the list of Z-Buster oddities, it was artwork and NOT sprites that changed between X2 and X3. Despite Zero's body sprites being completely redone, the sprite of the buster itself in X3 is copy/pasted from X2. However the sprite doesn't really fit either model too well due to the SNES style's general lack of detail.
Incidentally, X5 also shows both the X2 and X3 Z-Buster models in the appropriate flashback images. So Sensei and co. were definitely aware of the difference. Whether or not the spriters were is another question.
QuoteSource? To the best of my knowledge that's merely a popular assumption.
Well, X5 is the source... trashing one in plot only to whip out another at the ending...
Quote from: Zan on July 02, 2009, 02:31:04 AM
Well, X5 is the source... trashing one in plot only to whip out another at the ending...
And you don´t think that Isoc (aka Dr.Wily), would have created a new Z-Buster to replace the one which was destroyed by Sigma´s explosion in the ending of X5?
I think Isoc just simply didnt rebuild the X5 one. He just left in the one he then uses in X6.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on July 02, 2009, 06:05:54 AM
And you don´t think that Isoc (aka Dr.Wily), would have created a new Z-Buster to replace the one which was destroyed by Sigma´s explosion in the ending of X5?
You seem to misunderstand what I'm referring to...
I'm talking about how in X5, Zero trashes his X2 style buster in the intro to the game. But, Zero uses his X3 style buster in the ending to defeat Sigma. If Zero had just one buster, Zero could not have defeated Sigma in the manner that he did.
S that would mean that X's intro stage is the one that actually occurs stoywise?
Quote from: Zan on July 02, 2009, 12:40:17 PM
I'm talking about how in X5, Zero trashes his X2 style buster in the intro to the game. But, Zero uses his X3 style buster in the ending to defeat Sigma. If Zero had just one buster, Zero could not have defeated Sigma in the manner that he did.
He can also not be using the X2 style buster against X. But he does anyway.
So, yeah, that's a pretty weak source. It's highly suspect as falling under developer laziness. From a choreography standpoint, especially when videos are not in use, the Z-Buster is just easier to work with.
Quote from: Flame on July 02, 2009, 04:40:24 PM
S that would mean that X's intro stage is the one that actually occurs stoywise?
If anything it would be the other way around. Play as X, lose the Z-Buster; play as Zero, lose the 4th Armor. The Z-Buster appears in cutscenes. The 4th Armor does not.
Of course, take that with the grain of salt that that NONE of the X5 armors appear in cutscene. Not even the X4 version of the Ultimate Armor, which is specifically shown to remain intact after X collapses unconscious, yet is gone when they come to.
......you know, it just occurred to me. I just demonstrated, without trying to, that it's impossible to get any kind of consistency out of the X vs. Zero fight if you started the game as X. Either Zero has something he shouldn't, or X is lacking something he shouldn't.
QuoteHe can also not be using the X2 style buster against X. But he does anyway.
So, yeah, that's a pretty weak source. It's highly suspect as falling under developer laziness. From a choreography standpoint, especially when videos are not in use, the Z-Buster is just easier to work with.
But developer laziness applies to the battle moreso than anything else. With the introduction stage, they went to great lengths to justify a mere gameplay limitation in the plot, creating new sprites for both X and Zero. Subsequently in the ending they're using a buster even though they justified Zero not having one before...
And in this case, they for some reason went and made the X2 buster in sprites, even though they could just as easily have made the X3 buster... All in all, it would seem they were trying to tell us something, but screwed up by not respriting Zero's buster for the X and Zero battle.
Quote from: Zan on July 02, 2009, 10:44:21 PM
But developer laziness applies to the battle moreso than anything else. With the introduction stage, they went to great lengths to justify a mere gameplay limitation in the plot
But that's just it, if Zero does in fact hold two busters, their entire justification crumbles. There is no reason for gameplay to favor either model over the other. If Zero can access a buster for a last-second save, not to mention when he's missing half his body, he should be able to access it at any other time. The number of buster models is irrelevant.
Hence developer laziness comes into play moreso for their failure to acknowledge the loss of the Z-Buster in any manner but player arsenal after the intro stage. The easiest way to have someone finish a baddie in still shots is to shoot them; they were unwilling to draw an alternate scenario. Same applies for the boss fight against Zero, in which one of his two attacks (big effort there) utilizes the buster. If the artist depicts only one and the spriters depict only another one, that does not equal the story writers acknowledging the simultaneous existence of both.
Best fitting explanation I could come up with would be a healing effect of the Zero Virus restoring the Z-Buster, especially since the Virus is the full and sole justification to the change in Zero's attacks to begin with. But either explanation, or any other that we may come up with, is still fan-based assumption.
QuoteAnd in this case, they for some reason went and made the X2 buster in sprites, even though they could just as easily have made the X3 buster...
This isn't saying a lot considering that X3 didn't sprite the X3 buster.
The significance in effort to the opening applies every bit as equally to X losing his armor as to Zero losing his buster. But in X's case it's completely irrelevant to the story, as his armor never appears in any scene whatsoever, yet they did it anyway. Why do we need anymore reason for a 3-frame animation (which is exceedingly little effort given that Zero's breathing uses more frames than that) than to justify a gameplay mechanic that would have made no sense without it? The entire power-up system in X5 relies heavily on pick-and-choose elements, part of what makes it so aggravating. The intro stage is just one more piece on the pile.
I don't consider a spriting mishap to be adequate justification to Zero retaining multiple busters. By that logic X keeps two different chest plates (the back is different between art and sprite). The X2 buster ceased to exist in artwork after X2, by time of events, not time of drawing, as X5 itself establishes. That's a bizarre coincidence to be showing up in a game that is allegedly supposed to be the first to acknowledge the simultaneous possession of both models.
Quote from: Hypershell on July 02, 2009, 09:27:41 PM
Of course, take that with the grain of salt that that NONE of the X5 armors appear in cutscene. Not even the X4 version of the Ultimate Armor, which is specifically shown to remain intact after X collapses unconscious, yet is gone when they come to.
......you know, it just occurred to me. I just demonstrated, without trying to, that it's impossible to get any kind of consistency out of the X vs. Zero fight if you started the game as X. Either Zero has something he shouldn't, or X is lacking something he shouldn't.
X's armors NEVER show up in cutscenes. EVER. Its called not wanting to have to make separate images and cutscenes for each armor, or each combination thereof. Do you think the X8 developers are seriously going to make 4 different cutscenes for each of X's armors? (Neutral, Icarus, Hermes, Ultimate) and for each part combination? and then there's Zero and Axl's secret armors. Do you know how many variations of images and cutscenes they have to make?
similar goes for the other games since X4. they have to identify which parts you have equipped, which armor, etc... thats too much. its easier to draw him with no armor. To this extent they draw him teleporting without armor im sure.
also, Zero =lazyness. in the intro, he trashes his X2 buster, and cannot use it again. Unless we say that in that scenario, Fighting Ultimate armor X is the fight that actually happens, then its lazy spriting. they didnt want to make a new set of sprites just for that fight, even though they had already made sprites for his Awakened form's levitating, and for his Giant Saber swing, and it wouldnt have been that hard to make a new set of buster sprites, even if it was just the buster and not the pose that changed.
(http://www.sprites-inc.co.uk/files/X/Zello/X4-X5/zerox5sheet2.gif)
QuoteThis isn't saying a lot considering that X3 didn't sprite the X3 buster.
But, as you yourself admit, the X1~3 style is barely adequate in depicting what it is supposed to depict. X5 is a completely different story as X6 shows it is entirely possible.
Of course, X5 is one mucked up game anyway.... so many small weird things.
QuoteThe X2 buster ceased to exist in artwork after X2, by time of events, not time of drawing, as X5 itself establishes. That's a bizarre coincidence to be showing up in a game that is allegedly supposed to be the first to acknowledge the simultaneous possession of both models.
Maybe we should note it down for the next round of "ask Inafune-san".
Good idea.
One could just write the whole issue off as being the same as "What happens to X's armor?" Can we assume that Zero just gets so trashed in the last battle in every game that he has to rebuild his buster each time? Sometimes they build the same one, sometimes a different one, sometimes none at all. It's one way of looking at things anyway. Considering how frequently he dies or takes heavy damage, it seems like a safe assumption. Though I doubt Capcom is thinking much more beyond wanting to mix up gameplay on occasion.
My actually question to Inafune would look that way.
"Were both of Zero´s Z-Buster armcannons still to 100% funktional, when he later sealed himself for the first time? When they were funktional, why uses Omega a Bustershot instead of the two armcannons?"
Omega didn't use them cause they got too funky to be funktional XD
I am kidding.
Quote from: Fragman on July 03, 2009, 02:22:42 AM
One could just write the whole issue off as being the same as "What happens to X's armor?" Can we assume that Zero just gets so trashed in the last battle in every game that he has to rebuild his buster each time? Sometimes they build the same one, sometimes a different one, sometimes none at all. It's one way of looking at things anyway. Considering how frequently he dies or takes heavy damage, it seems like a safe assumption. Though I doubt Capcom is thinking much more beyond wanting to mix up gameplay on occasion.
X returns his armors to Light.
(except in x5 and 6)
in X5 he either returns Gaia and ditches Fourth, or loses both, and keeps Falcon. After all, 6 is only mere weeks after X5. [parasitic bomb] is still smokin hot. No time to return the armor, he still needed it.
and he returns his armors after X6, what are you talking about?
Not after. Before. And that's pretty handwavy of you, "He returns all the armors except the ones he doesn't".
It's not handwavy, Capcom actually proposed the idea. >.>
I though they get damaged beyond repair after the fights with Sigma
X5 was the only one in which they got THAT badly damaged. Remember X was actually pretty much killed by Sigma along with Zero. He was reduced to near scrap, a chest and a head. no arms not even his lower torso. It was Light that saved him.
...
With all that, its amazing that Alia was able to fix it at all. >.>;
'tis true.
Also, the 4th Armor in X5 is NOT the armor the Light gave X, it was a replica made by Alia. This is why it lacks a Giga Attack and the head part doesn't work as well as it used to (I still say that armor should have used the Stock charge and not Plasma, would have given Ultimate a more unique feel).
And yeah, X6 is three weeks after the whole planet was ravaged by the Sigma/Zero Viruses and the nearby Eurasia explosion. They may be over the hill, but they're not finished, so it makes sense that X isn't ready to turn in the armor just yet.
Quote from: Flame on July 03, 2009, 12:42:30 AM
X's armors NEVER show up in cutscenes. EVER. Its called not wanting to have to make separate images and cutscenes for each armor, or each combination thereof. Do you think the X8 developers are seriously going to make 4 different cutscenes for each of X's armors? (Neutral, Icarus, Hermes, Ultimate) and for each part combination?
In FMVs, of course not. But still shots such as X5 uses are a different story. Get Weapon screens of X1 and X2 responded to X's armor parts, as does his mugshot for X/Zero communications in X3, and his mugs in X4 and X6. X5 is the odd-ball in that no mugshot, nor still image, features X's armors.
Varying images is much, much easier than varying videos. Rather than redoing the entire image, it's a popular practice with X's armors to paste it over him as an extra layer.
However, there has been a growing amount of laziness with X's armors in recent games. X8's armored mugshot have only one position, the armor seemingly designed on purpose to hide X's face, therefore his expressions. MHX just ignores the armor outright, which looks really weird when at the end of the game you're seeing Vile's ride armor grab an unarmored X.
Quoteand then there's Zero and Axl's secret armors. Do you know how many variations of images and cutscenes they have to make?
Pallette swaps in 2D artwork are ludicrously simple.
QuoteTo this extent they draw him teleporting without armor im sure.
Half the beam-in frames are reused in special weapons, so they really only save about two frames per armor by doing this. That's more for effect than anything else, as the animation was designed in X4 when the traditional armor system was still in use.
Quotealso, Zero =lazyness. in the intro, he trashes his X2 buster, and cannot use it again. Unless we say that in that scenario, Fighting Ultimate armor X is the fight that actually happens, then its lazy spriting. they didnt want to make a new set of sprites just for that fight, even though they had already made sprites for his Awakened form's levitating, and for his Giant Saber swing, and it wouldnt have been that hard to make a new set of buster sprites, even if it was just the buster and not the pose that changed.
Speaking of laziness, on the vs. Ultimate Armor X battle, would have been so hard to have the armor dissolve as/after X collapses? Once again, a small effort would have gone a long way.
Quote from: Zan on July 03, 2009, 01:01:00 AM
But, as you yourself admit, the X1~3 style is barely adequate in depicting what it is supposed to depict. X5 is a completely different story as X6 shows it is entirely possible.
But as I have often said, the inadequacies of the SNES style are more negligence than they are system limitations. Even with those proportions some alterations could have been made. But it is pixel-for-pixel identical to X2's, showing that they didn't even try, despite creating an otherwise entirely new sprite sheet for Zero.
QuoteOf course, X5 is one mucked up game anyway.... so many small weird things.
Maybe we should note it down for the next round of "ask Inafune-san".
Agreed on both counts.
Quote from: Fragman on July 03, 2009, 02:22:42 AM
Considering how frequently he dies or takes heavy damage, it seems like a safe assumption.
It would be if not for the fact that he's unscathed in X6, which is when the final Z-Buster appearance is. X3 being the last I could have bought as either Mosquitus damage or an antivirus reaction.
Quote from: Zan on July 03, 2009, 05:52:45 PM
It's not handwavy, Capcom actually proposed the idea. >.>
God damn it not again.
??
I like to think that After X is granted the 'Armor' (from a theory that the armor is encrypted within X's systems), that after the conflict, and during the times of peace, no matter how abrupt, the armor's re-encrypt back into X's systems. This also suggests why he kept his Dash ability, why his Charge Shot changes between X1 -X3. Why each and every time his armor's vanish... And how the Ultimate Armor came into the picture. Plus is helps us understand what X is capable of with his limitless potential. And since X keeps the data, whether encrypted or decrypted by Light, Alia was able to analyze the 'Fourth' armor for the version seen in X5. And 'Falcon' version seen in X6. Plus Light's trust of Alia to make sure it is uploaded correctly...
X was built with the Emergency Acceleration System (EAS, Dash) by default. It wasn't a hidden ability, just that he didnt know how to use it. The boots were merely training wheels. also, the buster differences are well, X gets more powerful when he fights. His buster ups itself. Remember Zero's words in X1.
"If you use all the abilities you were designed with, you should become stronger..."
in X1, X want at 100% of his default power yet. That includes not knowing how to use his EAS, and his weak power. The first armor was like a set of training wheels that helped him reach his 100%. afterward, he knew how to use his EAS unaided, and his charge shot became more powerful.
although in game, comparing X1 2 and 3, Im sure the buster does the same amount of damage each time, so its probably just aesthetic.
Which doesn't conflict with my statement. I used that in the process of him acquiring his ability. Despite not knowing how to use his EAS, it was still unlocked by Light. And yet remained unlocked for X to use in basic future terms. His buster would be the same. Even if in game it does the same damage. And since X2 and X3 had quite different Buster upgrades, both, the buster could also be used as a 'hint' to what would be changing for the Buster.
Air dash becomes default, too.
by X7. And I still think they did it on a whim...
Quote from: Flame on July 04, 2009, 01:23:19 AM
X was built with the Emergency Acceleration System (EAS, Dash) by default. It wasn't a hidden ability, just that he didnt know how to use it. The boots were merely training wheels.
Not quite. It's not that he didn't know how, the first boots did grant him the ability, but said ability is an OPTIONAL component of his original specs. Hence why he kept it, it is something his unarmored form was designed to do. Just wasn't installed and/or completed.
Quotealthough in game, comparing X1 2 and 3, Im sure the buster does the same amount of damage each time, so its probably just aesthetic.
Pretty sure that's correct. A full charge shot does the equivalent of 4 uncharged shots against stage enemies in the SNES games. Checked that myself in X1, and I'm not aware of it changing between games.
All this is nice and all, but isn't this topic about Zero's buster?
Oh, and someone said that the buster was trashed in the intro; in that interval isn't it possible that simply he had it repaired?
wow the X Bustier thread still has more posts then the real thread XD
Quote from: CyberXIII on July 05, 2009, 10:08:19 PM
All this is nice and all, but isn't this topic about Zero's buster?
Oh, and someone said that the buster was trashed in the intro; in that interval isn't it possible that simply he had it repaired?
No. Since you still can't use it during the game.
Maybe it gets magicallytechnologically repaired by the Zero Virus.
You still can't use it In game >_>
Maverick Zero does, I think?
Quote from: Flame on July 06, 2009, 02:36:20 AM
You still can't use it In game >_>
Yeah, but you can't use Denharei or any of the other versus-Zero moves either. Nor can you use X's X4 weapons, X4 Ultimate Armor colorings, X4 charge effects, fancy recolored wall-impact sprites, or that phantom Lifesaver that lives in his buster shot.
You people are honestly still trying to make sense of the X5 X versus Zero battle?
Yes. Because there must be a logical explanation behind it.[/Spock]
What's a Denharei?
Saber wave.
Courtesy of White Dragon Nall:
QuoteShin Messenkou, "True Destruction Flash"
The stronger version of Messenkou (the attack Zero learns from Shining Hotarunicus) used by normal, Kakusei, and Nightmare Zero. The one in which he punches the ground and makes those balls things rise.
Shingetsurin, "True Moon Ring"
Original buster attack by Kakusei Zero, in which he fires a ring of blue fire.
Denharei, "Electric Blade Zero"
Saber attack used by normal, Kakusei, and Nightmare Zero, in which the saber's blade is turned into a projectile.
Genmurei, "Illusion Zero"
Kakusei Zero's ultimate attack, in which he launches two extremely large beam saber blade things at you which kill instantly. When he uses this attack, he keeps on using it until you die.
Genmurei Kai, "Illusion Zero (Modified)"
The extremely weak version of Genmurei used by Nightmare Zero. Only one blade, may move slowly or quickly.
I never did get Awakened Zero to use Genmurei...
You have to stall for a LONG, LONG time to get that to happen. Easiest to do with Falcon Armor.
It's a shame UA X has no such super move. I've stalled against him and Nightmare Zero long enough to force the music to restart. Twice.
Isn't X's super move the weird the Lifesaver thingy? I've never actually seen that happen...
It *might* happen when you block his buster shots (I've had more success in doing it with specials), but I'm not really sure what kind of "attack" that falls under. Lifesaver doesn't move. Or dissipate, which kinda lends to speculation that it might be a glitch of some sort. He does cause damage, though.
Wait, what? Lifesaver comes in during the fight?
Posted on: July 08, 2009, 06:40:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi5Zhz9oEU
it is a bug. look at where he is standing. he is below he standing line. and he is in blue inverse.its probably a glitch with the buster thing. how much damage does it do? It might be the game is reading the plasma bubble or the charge buster itself for the damage.
Where did you find that stuff by WDN?
Quote from: Flame on July 09, 2009, 12:54:57 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi5Zhz9oEU
it is a bug. look at where he is standing. he is below he standing line. and he is in blue inverse.its probably a glitch with the buster thing. how much damage does it do? It might be the game is reading the plasma bubble or the charge buster itself for the damage.
I know that, I've done it myself several times. Seems like odd behavior for a bug, though, to produce a new "attack" like that.
On damage, the video shows you (multiply by two to compensate for Black Zero). But X5's life bars are solid lines that don't show individual HP well.
Quote from: Hypershell on July 10, 2009, 03:13:53 AM
I know that, I've done it myself several times. Seems like odd behavior for a bug, though, to produce a new "attack" like that.
thats why its a bug. its odd. Like I said, it probably reads the plasma bubble but mixes up the sprite, and uses Lifesaver instead.
By "odd" I meant it seems oddly coherent for a bug. To get Lifesaver's sprite instead of a bunch of garbage. I know jack [parasitic bomb] about programming and even I'm curious is to how that happens.
Well if it refers to each frame by an ID (which is sensible) it would just have to hiccup and change that number to get a completely different sprite. Or someone was playing around with pointers...
Would whether or not it dissipates be dictated by what frames it finds, though? If it's finding the wrong frames for plasma ball and/or wall impact, shouldn't it disappear after a set number of frames have passed? Or is the fact that Lifesaver doesn't animate locking it into place?
(I'm sure we're boring the hell out of other readers)
Just to note, it doesn't happen at all in the PC version.
It makes sense that they would fix bugs, so it might not mean anything.
Not dissipating could be that it's supposed to go frame 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-gone, and without frames 2-3 it never reaches gone. Odd way of doing it, but... possible.
Plus Lifesavors sprite is triggered to dissapear only by the dialoge box closing and the battle starting, which may also affect it. he is meant to interact with the dialogue exchange on ly, therefore, in any other setting, he locks and stays there.
Quote from: Flame on July 12, 2009, 12:19:17 AM
Plus Lifesavors sprite is triggered to dissapear only by the dialoge box closing and the battle starting, which may also affect it. he is meant to interact with the dialogue exchange on ly, therefore, in any other setting, he locks and stays there.
That was my thought.
Its the most Feasible explanation thus far anyway. :P
Back in regards to the Z-Buster thing this topic is all about; personally I find that maybe there doesn't need to be an "explanation" for his lack of buster usage in X4, X7-8, and both Xtreme games. He was meant to play differently from X from the get-go after MMX3, so it's not story logic but game design logic instead. Although the dual/fixed Z-Buster inconsistency in X5 was nothing short of laziness.
Nothing implies the Z-Buster(s) was removed, replaced, or otherwise. It's merely a game design choice in the matter that X is the ranged fighter, and Zero is the close-combat fighter. The way the Z-Buster operates in X5-6 is a good example of the focus on his saber rather than his buster.
And in the transition to the Zero series, if you really want to try and tie everything together bit for bit, maybe his "body change" (aka his 'new' thong body design) disposed of the buster(s). Maybe it was never factored in and it's just all artstyle. It's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already), and i'm just basing this off my own theories as well as certain others and what i've read over the years.
Maybe we really do need official Capcom word, if they're willing to even reveal anything. :\
QuoteIt's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already),
http://geocities.com/protozantetsu/RockResources/MMZOCW.txt
But, MMZOCW doesn't say anything about the design change. Still, it is a nice read.
QuoteMaybe it was never factored in and it's just all artstyle.
There has been a statement from Inafune that all Repliroids were redesigned to reflect the upgrading in technology. Furthermore, XCM character designers designed X's new armor with the idea that the timeframe is closer to the ZERO-series. Finally, when Phoenix Magnion from ZERO2 summons memories of four X-series characters, they appear unchanged in design.
But not just that, the bustershot can't be just artstyle, it has specific explanations for it being different and arm mounted busters have also appeared within the same games.
For the Lifesaver thing, it has to do with the dialogue before the fight. It has a set ID in X's sprite frames which is used for the conversaion, but a programming error calls it up when the player cancels out his attack. Little glitch they let by.
Quote from: Nexus on July 17, 2009, 11:10:00 AM
Nothing implies the Z-Buster(s) was removed
Command Mission and MMZ want a word with you.
Quotemaybe his "body change" (aka his 'new' thong body design) disposed of the buster(s).
The redesign is solely art style and not a canonical switch (see X6's Zero ending; that's the body that becomes Omega). The only body-change is to the copy body after Omega's creation. If that were any explanation then Omega would have an arm-mounted buster.
QuoteIt's hard for me to tell in this case since I don't have access to this "RMZOCW" thing (although if it's in moonspeak, you've lost me already)
Get equipped with it, they (eventually) printed it in english.
http://www.amazon.com/Megaman-Zero-Official-Complete-Works/dp/1897376014/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247846413&sr=8-1
QuoteMaybe we really do need official Capcom word, if they're willing to even reveal anything. :\
I'm quite confident they would have none, the same as Inti has no explanation whatsoever for the Guardian art in Physis.
Quote from: Zan on July 17, 2009, 01:51:01 PM
There has been a statement from Inafune that all Repliroids were redesigned to reflect the upgrading in technology.
There is a somewhat noticeable difference in that the Resistance wears clothing. Zero appears to be sticking with an armor design, although the fact that Ciel wears headgear and that X, Zero, and the Guardians have a vest shpiel going on does blur the line a little. But the fact that Reploids progress is only natural, especially considering Reploid kids have been around for a while.
QuoteFurthermore, XCM character designers designed X's new armor with the idea that the timeframe is closer to the ZERO-series.
X's design is stated to be a new armor within the storyline, however, Zero and Axl are unchanged in appearance.
QuoteFinally, when Phoenix Magnion from ZERO2 summons memories of four X-series characters, they appear unchanged in design.
Bear in mind that is a cameo appearance with no dialogue to introduce them. To redesign them would defeat the point of the cameo. There are already enough lunatics who don't recognize Agile when they see him.
QuoteThe redesign is solely art style and not a canonical switch (see X6's Zero ending; that's the body that becomes Omega).
Depends. Between X6 and Omega, we have both a bustershot and Z-saber to account for that are somewhat canonically different from how Zero was in X6.
Beside obvious image retcon, a post seal change should not be left out of the equation.
QuoteI'm quite confident they would have none, the same as Inti has no explanation whatsoever for the Guardian art in Physis.
I dunno, they seem quite willing to make "complicated explanations real fast."
Also, Vile's Incident isn't Physis.
Splitting hairs.QuoteX's design is stated to be a new armor within the storyline, however, Zero and Axl are unchanged in appearance.
But the fact remains that X's armor is designed the way it is, because the timeline is closer to the ZERO-series. That tells us there are somewhat canon changes between X and ZERO. Between X's armor and the ZERO-series, the biggest similarities lie with the style of legs.
Quote from: Zan on July 17, 2009, 07:13:35 PM
Depends. Between X6 and Omega, we have both a bustershot and Z-saber to account for that are somewhat canonically different from how Zero was in X6.
Beside obvious image retcon, a post seal change should not be left out of the equation.
Right. Because one cannot possibly study the Sigma Virus without updating the host's armor as fashion dictates. X6's ending was made with the full knowledge that MMZ was on the way, they could have cleared everything, or done a shadowy silhouette for Zero, either one would have settled the matter and at the same time made things clearer for the dingbats who don't understand the concept of a sneak peek (which I admit is easy to miss first-time, but viewing it now in retrospect a lot of folks still don't put it together). They didn't.
The Z-Buster is not seen in the X6 ending, so the Buster Shot point is irrelevant. It's never seen when Zero isn't using it, despite concept art showing that it should be stored on his back. Omega's Z-Saber does not function with alternate modes as Zero's does (and even if it did, there's X7's alternate weapons to consider), so the double-ended point is moot. That leaves only chargeability and blade color, neither of which need to result in a visible change in the hilt (otherwise Shadow Armor has some 'splainin to do).
I know leg holsters are a frequent point of contention, but the reality is that both X and Zero series designs are symmetrical in their Z-Saber holds. We just only ever saw one Z-Saber over the course of the X-series, but there's no difference between the left and right sides of Zero's "backpack".
If there was an armor redesign it is current only with Elf Wars and then left untouched the following century. The fact that Inti considered and rejected the old Zero design for Omega says something, as well. They had to make new sprites for him anyway, so there's no real reason not to.
So, both Capcom and Inti had the chance to establish a canon armor change, and neither did. X6's ending can't be dismissed as retconned out unless something exists to retcon it. At current, nothing does. And Inti had the chance to go there and refused.
QuoteAlso, Vile's Incident isn't Physis. Splitting hairs.
Splitting hairs indeed. It was included with Physis. If I ever refer to the "ZXA Tunes mouse pad", I don't think anyone would believe that a mouse pad was somehow stored on a CD.
QuoteBut the fact remains that X's armor is designed the way it is, because the timeline is closer to the ZERO-series. That tells us there are somewhat canon changes between X and ZERO. Between X's armor and the ZERO-series, the biggest similarities lie with the style of legs.
If by "closer" you mean some developer thought XCM actually was the Zero-series timeframe, from what you told me in AIM (feel free to get me an actual source/quote if you find it). Developer confusion =/= canon, otherwise the remaining three Guardians are still kicking. It could be the beginning, but such an instance needs further building in order to be validated, or else it means nothing.
Canon changes DID happen in arsenal. The Z-Saber was enhanced, the Buster Shot was picked up at some point. Body design is another matter.
Plus the saber X gave Zero was Zero's... there's nothing to say that Omega didn't have a saber, and Vile gave him a new one. If we go with the theory that Zero at some point had the Buster outright removed from himself, then the Omega Body would not have one, and therefore, Vile would need to give him something, and uses the same fashion of Handgun that Milan used and was passed on to Zero, maybe because of that model's compatibility with the Saber.
QuotePlus the saber X gave Zero was Zero's... there's nothing to say that Omega didn't have a saber, and Vile gave him a new one.
We don't know which Saber X gave Zero. Also, Zero sealed himself with the Z-saber on his back, and there clearly was information available on Zero's saber at the Forgotten Laboratory. How it all went down is anyone's guess.
QuoteVile would need to give him something, and uses the same fashion of Handgun that Milan used and was passed on to Zero, maybe because of that model's compatibility with the Saber.
How does Dr. Vile give Omega anything of the sort when the armor hasn't been removed for over a century? Conveniently place it on the floor of the Forgotten Lab? Seeing as how it's designed to work with the Z-saber. I'd sooner think that Zero and therefore Omega used the same type of handgun in the past.
Of course, the entire Forgotten Laboratory being in ZERO3 is nothing short of a plot hole, what with being destroyed in the Ganeshariff mission, and Zero having the Triple Rod and Shield Boomerang regardless of that fact.
Quote from: Zan on July 18, 2009, 01:33:49 PM
How does Dr. Vile give Omega anything of the sort when the armor hasn't been removed for over a century? Conveniently place it on the floor of the Forgotten Lab? Seeing as how it's designed to work with the Z-saber. I'd sooner think that Zero and therefore Omega used the same type of handgun in the past.
So the question is now, when did Zero decide to drop his armcannons in favor for a bustershot? Maybe the lack of Axl in the Zero Series is the key for this mystery. I could be that Axl was killed and Zero decided to use his guns as a memento on him.
Zero isn't the type for wishy washy feelings like that. Axl would be honored as felled in the line of duty, avenged, and that's it.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on July 18, 2009, 03:13:21 PM
So the question is now, when did Zero decide to drop his armcannons in favor for a bustershot? Maybe the lack of Axl in the Zero Series is the key for this mystery. I could be that Axl was killed and Zero decided to use his guns as a memento on him.
But there's no connection between the two weapons. Axl has two guns, if not more. Zero has one that can interact with his Z-saber.
The key question is:
WHAT HAPPENED TO AXL BETWEEN THE X AND ZERO SERIES? (Caps off)
Unless inti and Capcom gives a statement we won´t get an answer
Quote from: Blackhook on July 18, 2009, 06:42:49 PM
The key question is:
WHAT HAPPENED TO AXL BETWEEN THE X AND ZERO SERIES? (Caps off)
Unless inti and Capcom gives a statement we won´t get an answer
Not in this topic my friend, so why don´t go you ahead and open such a thread?
Well, Axl not being in the Zero series is kind of to be expected, since Z1 predates X7. But I'm surprised there was no cameo appearance in an Elf Wars flashback or anything. Maybe that all has to do with Inti not wanting to touch the art style change. *shrugs*
Quote from: Zan on July 18, 2009, 01:33:49 PM
We don't know which Saber X gave Zero. Also, Zero sealed himself with the Z-saber on his back, and there clearly was information available on Zero's saber at the Forgotten Laboratory. How it all went down is anyone's guess.
In X6. Retroactively that no longer applies to Z1's awakening, due to Telos, Elf Wars, and all that jazz.
Axl has a cameo as Model A.
We were talking about Zero, not ZX.
Quote from: Acid on July 18, 2009, 07:53:21 PM
Axl has a cameo as Model A.
But as you know it is named after his creator, Albert. We need more evidence, or at least the word of god Inafune.
Quote from: Hypershell on July 18, 2009, 08:07:20 PM
We were talking about Zero, not ZX.
My bad.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on July 18, 2009, 08:08:11 PM
But as you know it is named after his creator, Albert. We need more evidence, or at least the word of god Inafune.
Yeah but only a blindfolded idiotic monkey would not see that Model A is based on Axl. Design wise.
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on July 18, 2009, 07:48:21 PM
Not in this topic my friend, so why don´t go you ahead and open such a thread?
I couldn´t care less about Axl :P
Quote from: Thanatos-Zero on July 18, 2009, 08:08:11 PM
But as you know it is named after his creator, Albert.
Topic officially derailed.
The name "Model Albert" comes from Albert's backup plan, that is the data within the ciphers, not the Biometal's identity or combat abilities. Model A cannot contain Albert's consciousness if Albert's consciousness is still in his own body. Model A bears no resemblance to Albert in either personality or abilities, with the sole exception of A-Trans (Homing Shot doesn't count; Albert only uses it in his final form, when he has abilities from all 6 of Ciel's Biometals). Albert, probably due to lacking his own combat abilities, relies on either Model A or Model W to supply him with data for A-Trans. Model A can acquire and copy data on its own.
There is every reason to believe that Albert considers the Biometal's consciousness to be irrelevant. Look at what happened to the Small Four. All have red-eyes, all override the wills of their respective Biometals with their own, as Model X mentions. Grey, when awakening, briefly showed red eyes before they went green, and Pandora explains that Grey's mind control was incomplete. Notice also there are four broken capsules in the room where Grey awakens.
For many obvious reasons, Model A is clearly designed after Axl. Dual pistols, screen-wide rapid fire Giga Attack, copy ability, child-like personality, somewhat selfish/cowardice at first but becomes brave and a little trigger-happy when given an appropriate role-model to follow, obvious likeness to Axl's helmet in the Biometal fragment, less obvious but equally valid likeness in the armor. Any of those may be dismissed if they were alone, but all together?
A's design very vaguely resembles God Albert's armor.
also, ZX is for all intents and purposes Zero 5. >_>
Quote from: Flame on July 19, 2009, 07:10:44 AM
A's design very vaguely resembles God Albert's armor.
Hahaha no.
Not at all. Seriously people, am I the only one who can see Axl in Model A? Both, Biometal AND megamerge?
Model A only does not represents Axl in certain oddities shared by every single transformation... That is, taking aspects of the host as parts of its design. Grey's design elements are heavily reused. Just like the others for some magical reason have the same chest armor as a random Giro Express uniform.
Actually, it's MOSTLY Grey re-using Model A, rather than the other way around. Chest and shoes are the same. The only thing Model A takes from Grey is the red cords in the back.
As for how "ultimate" Albert compares to Model A, there's virtually no resemblance outside of the fact that they have striped leg/waist joints. Meanwhile, the limbs of DAN-000 that do show (I'm mainly referring to the legs here) match up exactly with Albert's Ultimate MegaMan getup, merely palette-swapped.
Quote from: Zan on July 19, 2009, 01:51:31 PM
Just like the others for some magical reason have the same chest armor as a random Giro Express uniform.
I'm seriously wondering if Giro didn't have some connection with Ciel, for that reason. While the uniform matches, ZXA shows us that it's "not quite" a direct carry-over. The vest stays in place and color-changes rather than being dissolved and re-made as Grey's chest/feet are. But it also loses that new emblem that Vent/Aile added to their ZXA outfits.
Although, and I just noticed this, a similar shpiel goes on with Grey's feet. They're not quite the same either. Grey has bolts at the top of the toe end, Model A doesn't.
I have to say, out of all of the long-shot calls being right I have ever made, I think the whole thing with Model A was probably the biggest. I remember saying that maybe Model A won't be Axl, it could be something else, or something to that effect, and placed little faith in it being true. I'll be damned if everything but the name doesn't come from Axl, yet they called it ALBERT instead. Reminds me of a show where someone was trying to not shoot a bird by turning the gun 45 degrees away from it, and yet still hit it dead on.
Anyway, about the Z buster.
What happens when Black Zero uses it? Does the buster get stronger as well? <.<
Quote from: Acid on July 19, 2009, 12:24:00 PM
am I the only one who can see Axl in Model A? Both, Biometal AND megamerge?
Model A is Axl. Axl is Model A
[spoiler]
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1093/g325215tgcopy.png)
It fits. That's all I need to believe.
Stop agonizing & accept it. Unless you prefer to believe that Craft IS Axl. LOL
[/spoiler]
Okay going back on topic...
Z Buster is pathetic. If you want to use a buster just play as X.
Then beat Spilt Mushroom with buster only (No Charge)! :W
Quote from: Hypershell on July 20, 2009, 12:41:53 AM
Actually, it's MOSTLY Grey re-using Model A, rather than the other way around. Chest and shoes are the same. The only thing Model A takes from Grey is the red cords in the back
the whole chest armor is Grey's
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/I_am_X2007/Stolen%20bleep%20images/mmzxa_cutscene12.png)
Yet Ashe has it too.
(http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa215/I_am_X2007/Stolen%20bleep%20images/mmzxa_cutscene4.png)
Posted on: July 20, 2009, 08:20:10 AM
Quote from: Galappan on July 20, 2009, 11:58:39 AM
Model A is Axl. Axl is Model A
[spoiler]
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1093/g325215tgcopy.png)
[/spoiler]
D: Cant un see...
seriously that looks slightly disturbing.
Quotethe whole chest armor is Grey's
-Albert made Model A, Albert made Grey to use Model A.
-The chest is not exact, several details have changed and the vest underneath is added.
-Grey's chest armor dissolves only to be replaced with Model A's.
QuoteFor many obvious reasons, Model A is clearly designed after Axl.
There's also the fact that both Grey and Ashe have personalities and themes going that relate to Axl.
QuoteI'm seriously wondering if Giro didn't have some connection with Ciel, for that reason.
I do wonder if these vests somehow double as armor. (Even when they're open?) In Hu/Re form they are prone to taking damage, Ashe especially. They take damage comparable to what a fully armored Rockman would. Of course, that could just be the machine body doing its thing.
Quote from: Pringer X on July 20, 2009, 08:34:48 AM
What happens when Black Zero uses it? Does the buster get stronger as well? <.<
No, however, the Z-Buster may be enhanced with the Buster Plus power-up part, the same as the X-Buster can.
Quote from: Flame on July 20, 2009, 02:21:16 PM
Yet Ashe has it too.
Hence Grey re-using Model A's design. If it was the other way around, Ashe wouldn't share the chest, as she doesn't share the red cords.
Zan has a sharper eye than I do on the chest details, although it is in line with Grey semi-reusing the feet. Clearly based on but not identical.
Quote from: Galappan on July 20, 2009, 11:58:39 AM
Z Buster is pathetic.
In X5, this is true. Although it is a safe-if-slow way of handling giant enemies (mutant taxi cabs in particular). And it's fun to kick the crap out of Ultimate Armor X using only a laggy pea-shooter.
In X6, the Z-Buster rocks, for reasons I've already discussed. Much faster, massive point-blank range damage on stage enemies, massive damage at any range on bosses. The default Z-Buster handles Sigma's first form as quickly and easily as X's Overdrive, that's saying something.
Quote from: Zan on July 20, 2009, 02:54:35 PM
Of course, that could just be the machine body doing its thing.
A valid explanation considering that Ashe sky-dives, it cutscene, without a parachute.
*gives Nekomata ZE UPPERCUUT!!!*
Do you even know what I was talking about?
X6 sigma is pathetic regardless of whatever the hell you're using.
Quote from: Nekomata on July 21, 2009, 03:04:22 AM
X6 sigma is pathetic regardless of whatever the hell you're using.
Sorry Hyper but she's right. If I can kill the second form in one standard jump slash as Zero, something is horribly wrong. XD
Quote from: Jericho on July 21, 2009, 03:15:21 AM
Sorry Hyper but she's right. If I can kill the second form in one standard jump slash as Zero, something is horribly wrong. XD
Guard shell ftw.
Quote from: Flame on July 20, 2009, 02:21:16 PM
D: Cant un see...
seriously that looks slightly disturbing.
Floating Heads are creepy indeed.
On topic. Wily did his best in creating Zero yet he fails in the buster part. XD
Though...Zero himself is a weapon of destruction...God Of Destruction to be exact.
Quote from: Nekomata on July 21, 2009, 03:04:22 AM
X6 sigma is pathetic regardless of whatever the hell you're using.
He didn't say about making it easier, he said about making it FASTER.
Quote from: Jericho on July 21, 2009, 03:15:21 AM
Sorry Hyper but she's right. If I can kill the second form in one standard jump slash as Zero, something is horribly wrong. XD
I wasn't talking about the second form, I was talking about the first. And by "easily" I mean never having to move. Ever.
Blizzard Wolfang's pretty much the same, too.
I think you do have to move, every other shot or so knocks him down, and then he spits out 2394829384 energy balls which you have to jump over. Although it's enough to jump straight up.
You're using Ground Dash on him, aren't you? Attacking Sigma with something else doesn't knock him down nearly so often. With the Z-Buster, or X's Overdrive, he's dead in seconds, and any damage you take is minimal. I've done both a zillion times on Xtreme mode.
because standing still and mashing special weapon is fun, amirite.
It's a demonstration of power, the point of the discussion (you were contesting my against Galappan's statement that the Z-Buster is pathetic, remember?). The Z-Buster does as much damage to any other boss as it does Sigma, it's just that, with the slight exception of Wolfang, the others don't just stand in your line of fire for you.
Besides, who doesn't want Sigma's first form over as quickly as possible? It reuses the stage BGM, for crying out loud. Second form, no matter how easy, is far more awesome to toy with.
Saber spam works for me.
Quote from: Hypershell on July 23, 2009, 12:49:39 AM
You're using Ground Dash on him, aren't you? Attacking Sigma with something else doesn't knock him down nearly so often. With the Z-Buster, or X's Overdrive, he's dead in seconds, and any damage you take is minimal. I've done both a zillion times on Xtreme mode.
Been too long since I played to say for sure.
Saber+dash+turbo button works for Siggy. Works for any boss (short of Nightmare Mother and Gate) actually.
Get equipped with actual attacks instead of physics exploits.
Its an attack in my book.
Really, killing the second form in two saber slashes might also be seen as an exploit as attacks normally don't ignore the damage shield like it wasn't there.
*shrug* :\
probably
Indeed. It's just taking advantage of the fact that the X-series generally doesn't apply selective damage barriers the way that Inti does in Z2 onwards, and using dash to reset your combo.
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rectifiersubstation.ru (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)redemptionvalue.ru (http://redemptionvalue.ru)reducingflange.ru (http://reducingflange.ru)referenceantigen.ru (http://referenceantigen.ru)regeneratedprotein.ru (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)reinvestmentplan.ru (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)safedrilling.ru (http://safedrilling.ru)sagprofile.ru (http://sagprofile.ru)salestypelease.ru (http://salestypelease.ru)samplinginterval.ru (http://samplinginterval.ru)satellitehydrology.ru (http://satellitehydrology.ru)scarcecommodity.ru (http://scarcecommodity.ru)scrapermat.ru (http://scrapermat.ru)screwingunit.ru (http://screwingunit.ru)seawaterpump.ru (http://seawaterpump.ru)secondaryblock.ru (http://secondaryblock.ru)secularclergy.ru (http://secularclergy.ru)seismicefficiency.ru (http://seismicefficiency.ru)selectivediffuser.ru (http://selectivediffuser.ru)semiasphalticflux.ru (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)semifinishmachining.ru (http://semifinishmachining.ru)spicetrade.ru (http://spicetrade.ru)spysale.ru (http://spysale.ru)
stungun.ru (http://stungun.ru)tacticaldiameter.ru (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)tailstockcenter.ru (http://tailstockcenter.ru)tamecurve.ru (http://tamecurve.ru)tapecorrection.ru (http://tapecorrection.ru)tappingchuck.ru (http://tappingchuck.ru)taskreasoning.ru (http://taskreasoning.ru)technicalgrade.ru (http://technicalgrade.ru)telangiectaticlipoma.ru (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)telescopicdamper.ru (http://telescopicdamper.ru)temperateclimate.ru (http://temperateclimate.ru)temperedmeasure.ru (http://temperedmeasure.ru)tenementbuilding.ru (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)ultramaficrock.ru (http://ultramaficrock.ru)ultraviolettesting.ru (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
swee (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/8126)197.2 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/854)???? (http://eyesvision.ru/lectures/28)CHAP (http://eyesvisions.com)Kobo (http://factoringfee.ru/t/294864)Ossi (http://filmzones.ru/t/129560)???? (http://gadwall.ru/t/129843)Marg (http://gaffertape.ru/t/326914)Fran (http://gageboard.ru/t/295165)Micr (http://gagrule.ru/t/58053)???? (http://gallduct.ru/t/168271)???? (http://galvanometric.ru/t/158644)???? (http://gangforeman.ru/t/109676)Atla (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/140146)Buca (http://garbagechute.ru/t/667973)???? (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/136145)scre (http://gascautery.ru/t/181241)Rond (http://gashbucket.ru/t/96335)???? (http://gasreturn.ru/t/247530)XVII (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/284891)???? (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/661176)Kons (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/659238)Tefa (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/396038)
Niko (http://geartreating.ru/t/565593)???? (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/293177)Herd (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/449296)Anka (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/558317)???? (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/137628)???? (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/138244)Kiri (http://getthebounce.ru/t/137298)???? (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/296636)???? (http://habituate.ru/t/478631)Bene (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/70019)Tech (http://hackworker.ru/t/470400)Chie (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/554164)???? (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/477680)Taft (http://hailsquall.ru/t/109543)Brau (http://hairysphere.ru/t/97376)???? (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/301218)Clea (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/561279)???? (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/293714)XVII (http://haltstate.ru/t/297607)???? (http://handcoding.ru/t/295907)Pete (http://handportedhead.ru/t/541793)???? (http://handradar.ru/t/300169)Dent (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/136902)
Scha (http://hangonpart.ru/t/16737)Road (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/167902)Panz (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/162702)Vulp (http://hardasiron.ru/t/111018)Erne (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/278778)XVII (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/265931)Copp (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/139996)???? (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/156674)???? (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/155445)Valk (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/110107)???? (http://headregulator.ru/t/155301)SeaW (http://heartofgold.ru/t/156365)Benn (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/128810)Cath (http://heatinggas.ru/t/262059)???? (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/297535)Jose (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/253556)???? (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/297158)???? (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/300601)(192 (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/297358)???? (http://jobstress.ru/t/299101)???? (http://jogformation.ru/t/368268)Edit (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/546028)Amig (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/538854)
Jewe (http://journallubricator.ru/t/140530)???? (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/140578)Szep (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/277266)Arth (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/231172)???? (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/293656)Leos (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/253868)Stob (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/265358)Susa (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/257415)This (http://kentishglory.ru/t/265088)Ospr (http://kerbweight.ru/t/180436)Daph (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/294229)Icon (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/163557)FIFA (http://keyserum.ru/t/164010)???? (http://kickplate.ru/t/156454)???? (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/568538)Spoi (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/252878)Emil (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/291963)???? (http://kinozones.ru/film/8126)Arts (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/601709)???? (http://kneejoint.ru/t/284554)???? (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/284059)Soni (http://knockonatom.ru/t/164414)???? (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/505323)
???? (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/156704)???? (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/487839)???? (http://laborracket.ru/t/156743)Zone (http://labourearnings.ru/t/157586)diam (http://labourleasing.ru/t/173547)Kath (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/326497)Defo (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/292131)???? (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/298609)Loui (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/292085)Etga (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/81196)???? (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/68932)???? (http://laggingload.ru/t/80415)MAGI (http://laissezaller.ru/t/77775)GooN (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/67053)Expe (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/55523)???? (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/178988)Ruth (http://lamphouse.ru/t/197465)???? (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/79653)Norm (http://lancingdie.ru/t/67396)Symp (http://landingdoor.ru/t/132626)Evil (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/167886)???? (http://landreform.ru/t/248728)Gard (http://landuseratio.ru/t/166421)
???? (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/191889)???? (http://largeheart.ru/shop/1782571)???? (http://lasercalibration.ru/shop/1708581)TRAS (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1679)Nord (http://laserpulse.ru/shop/1030373)???? (http://laterevent.ru)???? (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/452110)???? (http://layabout.ru/shop/600970)Book (http://leadcoating.ru/shop/1327169)Wind (http://leadingfirm.ru/shop/464644)Book (http://learningcurve.ru/shop/794512)C305 (http://leaveword.ru/shop/1026658)Geer (http://machinesensible.ru/shop/447011)???? (http://magneticequator.ru/shop/861975)???? (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru/shop/789627)PETE (http://mailinghouse.ru/shop/557952)???? (http://majorconcern.ru/shop/788910)Case (http://mammasdarling.ru/shop/1142826)TOYO (http://managerialstaff.ru/shop/613807)When (http://manipulatinghand.ru/shop/1175797)???? (http://manualchoke.ru/shop/1179348)???? (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/1410)Retr (http://mp3lists.ru/item/8126)
???? (http://nameresolution.ru/shop/1486113)???? (http://naphtheneseries.ru/shop/1033935)???? (http://narrowmouthed.ru/shop/462939)Jack (http://nationalcensus.ru/shop/1206818)???? (http://naturalfunctor.ru/shop/861900)???? (http://navelseed.ru/shop/454073)???? (http://neatplaster.ru/shop/460293)Sale (http://necroticcaries.ru/shop/186218)???? (http://negativefibration.ru/shop/652140)mail (http://neighbouringrights.ru/shop/653197)Winx (http://objectmodule.ru/shop/471850)Oreg (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/97434)???? (http://obstructivepatent.ru/shop/1032600)???? (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/560678)???? (http://octupolephonon.ru/shop/143288)Pail (http://offlinesystem.ru/shop/150920)???? (http://offsetholder.ru/shop/1254199)???? (http://olibanumresinoid.ru/shop/288240)Lafa (http://onesticket.ru/shop/583978)???? (http://packedspheres.ru/shop/585257)???? (http://pagingterminal.ru/shop/689474)???? (http://palatinebones.ru/shop/690382)???? (http://palmberry.ru/shop/956320)
???? (http://papercoating.ru/shop/682259)???? (http://paraconvexgroup.ru/shop/1055199)???? (http://parasolmonoplane.ru/shop/1696157)???? (http://parkingbrake.ru/shop/1176913)???? (http://partfamily.ru/shop/1379315)???? (http://partialmajorant.ru/shop/1489974)Vict (http://quadrupleworm.ru/shop/1545332)???? (http://qualitybooster.ru/shop/1630772)Want (http://quasimoney.ru/shop/642719)Bole (http://quenchedspark.ru/shop/913494)???? (http://quodrecuperet.ru/shop/1175204)???? (http://rabbetledge.ru/shop/1421520)???? (http://radialchaser.ru/shop/1458806)Happ (http://radiationestimator.ru/shop/517485)???? (http://railwaybridge.ru/shop/872688)(195 (http://randomcoloration.ru/shop/930783)FORE (http://rapidgrowth.ru/shop/1078623)???? (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru/shop/1401353)???? (http://reachthroughregion.ru/shop/1503828)Medi (http://readingmagnifier.ru/shop/521352)Loth (http://rearchain.ru/shop/879681)Erik (http://recessioncone.ru/shop/913285)???? (http://recordedassignment.ru/shop/1654809)
???? (http://rectifiersubstation.ru/shop/1660016)???? (http://redemptionvalue.ru/shop/1667933)???? (http://reducingflange.ru/shop/1689779)???? (http://referenceantigen.ru/shop/1714157)???? (http://regeneratedprotein.ru/shop/1773599)???? (http://reinvestmentplan.ru/shop/1777021)Herb (http://safedrilling.ru/shop/1822740)???? (http://sagprofile.ru/shop/1828735)???? (http://salestypelease.ru/shop/1856074)???? (http://samplinginterval.ru/shop/1881724)Lady (http://satellitehydrology.ru/shop/1918506)???? (http://scarcecommodity.ru/shop/1931001)???? (http://scrapermat.ru/shop/1950260)???? (http://screwingunit.ru/shop/1963871)???? (http://seawaterpump.ru/shop/1973425)???? (http://secondaryblock.ru/shop/1462607)???? (http://secularclergy.ru/shop/1497696)???? (http://seismicefficiency.ru/shop/1560656)???? (http://selectivediffuser.ru/shop/1647539)Phil (http://semiasphalticflux.ru/shop/1679659)Lucy (http://semifinishmachining.ru/shop/1695301)TRAS (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1679)TRAS (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1679)
TRAS (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1679)XVII (http://tacticaldiameter.ru/shop/487787)???? (http://tailstockcenter.ru/shop/1762164)VIII (http://tamecurve.ru/shop/1773051)Rach (http://tapecorrection.ru/shop/1776256)Kath (http://tappingchuck.ru/shop/491732)???? (http://taskreasoning.ru/shop/504879)???? (http://technicalgrade.ru/shop/1855515)???? (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru/shop/1901793)Pali (http://telescopicdamper.ru/shop/1958265)???? (http://temperateclimate.ru/shop/874943)???? (http://temperedmeasure.ru/shop/922865)???? (http://tenementbuilding.ru/shop/985965)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Paul (http://ultramaficrock.ru/shop/986501)???? (http://ultraviolettesting.ru/shop/488223)