Well said... Well said.

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Offline Ramzal

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Reply #50 on: May 09, 2009, 02:59:56 PM
Okay, you're being extreme on the type of cartoon that would be aired.  However, guess what?  There's a very, VERY simple philosophy to making sure your daughter doesn't watch that kind of show (and this will be repeated throughout the course of this post)  Simply don't SHOW it to her.  As the parent of your daughter, you are responsible for monitoring what they watch, as well as teaching them the difference between right and wrong.  Same as the parents of the kids who are dressed like 50 Cent.  Blaming cartoons, music, or other forms of media is just an excuse for bad parenting.

This would be well put if not for the fact that it's easier in theory than it is in execution. There is a correlation to what a child views to what kind of person they grow to be. The reason why so many kids get exposed to bad media is that parents can't always be around to -see- what their children are taking in. There's always at least a twenty minute window--altogether--when a parent is seperated from a child during the day. And we all know that because those were the times we used to turn to a show we weren't supposed to watch or go and do stupid things.

The reason why things are censored and made so sugary sweet is that if a parent has to leave the room with the child still watching tv, they can be assured that while they are gone, the child is still watching safe programming. People say that blaiming cartoons and music and media is an excuse for bad parenting, but with most cases it really isn't due to what the child can be exposed to outside of a period of parental supervision and an obvious causation when the child's additude begins to change for the worst. Although, I fully agree with you that the media is NOT a parental tool.

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My parents played New Jack Hustler, Baby Got Back and LOTS of songs with profanity in them.  My parents showed me R Rated movies when I was 5, with plenty of cursing, awesome deaths, and kick ass quotes.  I turned out just fine. 

And a lot who've watched what you did at the same age where effected by that in a negative way. The other side of the fence shouldn't be ignored here.

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PARENTS -need- to be around for children so they don't walk around yelling "Where'z mah bitches!" It's called teaching them right from wrong, and teaching them what's socially acceptable. 

That's the kicker and why censorship is in place. What a child initially views/hears, they see it as something that's right to say or do. If you put a kid in front of a tv and they see classic looney toons, they see it as--shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is funny. When the outcome is...well, only funny if Joe Quesada is on the business end of the shotgun. Censorship is there to help in deciding what is good or bad for your children to watch and what could be acceptable.

However, that is no excuse to leave them in front of the tele and let that decide for them, they do need parental interations.

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I mean, who cares if they do it when they're in their high school years.  I mean, you curse and joke around with your friends, but if you're actually stupid enough to do something jail worthy, a LOT of times it's the fault of parenting.  My friend is a child psychologist at a school in NYC that's the kids last stop before juvie/prison.  Guess what the MAIN problem in their life is?  It's certainly not uncensored media.  It's their lack of parents.

It's more of a mixture of the two. Namely if it's a city like NYC. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that most of those kids he see's are in the hispanic and african american majority. Those two races have a large problem with a lack of parental direction due to a lack of a father figure, losey moms, and music and movies they take too seriously in their heads. I've grown up in way too many ghettos to not see the obvious of music AND poor parenting go hand in hand as to when your kid is bleeding in the street because they wanted to be as tough as 50. (Which, he really is a pansy. >_>)

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And no they haven't loosened up Censorship.  G.I.Joe was an awful cartoon in the grand scheme of 80's cartoons.  However, they wanted Dungeons & Dragons banned from TV at one point because it was referred to as the most violent cartoon on at the time, and it was the best WRITTEN cartoon on.

In Avatar The Last Airbender there are debates--in the show weither it is right or wrong to kill the Fire Lord in the grand scheme of preserving peace. As in, they said the word "Kill" rather than "Destroy" and "Taking a life" rather than "Obliterate". They've loosened up quite some time since Dugeons & Dragon's, man. And Avatar is -aimed- towards kids to watch and I think that IS an exceptable level of censorship so kids are made aware of certain things in show rather than just being blinded and pampered.

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Again, poor cartoon choice.  The 90's Spider-Man cartoon was poorly animated, for the most part.  However, he did indeed hit people in the cartoons, web-swing then kicked them.  Also, it doesn't matter.  IT'S A CARTOON!  If your kid is going out and beating the life out of another kid just like your Friendly, Neighborhood Spider-Man, then you've done something wrong as a parent!  My friends and I watched ALL those shows, and we don't go out getting into fights.

That wasn't my point at all and you kind of blew my statement out of proportion. My point was that comparing the violent content, they have loosened up. Stan Lee almost got into a lawsuit situation over what goes on in the Spider-man 1990's cartoon as far as censorship goes and it's a shame he didn't get his way. Shoulda been like the comics.

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Even if this class claims that TV has gotten more violent, which in terms of cartoons I absolutely disagree with, it doesn't excuse bad parenting.

Again, you're assuming that what I'm saying that "TV = bad." What I was saying was that media censorship has a part in what a child grows to be. Not a large part but still a part. WHATEVER your child is exposed to, that is what they are going to take in and use to form their personal tastes and personality.

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  Monitor your kids, spend time with them, teach them right from wrong, you know, PARENT them, and TV shouldn't be a problem.  And again, if it is, simply don't let them watch it!  And yes, Looney Tunes was VERY racist back in the day.  Disney wasn't exactly the poster-child for equality either?  I mean, have you EVER seen Song of the South?  LoL, guess what the Disney World ride Splash Mountain is based on!  Are you not going to take your daughter on that awesomely fun ride, due to it's CLEAR racial undertones from that movie?

Wow, nice move insulting my intelligence as well as ability to raise a child and underestimating what the job of parenting actually is. It's harder than what you read about and harder than what your parents tell you. It's not so SIMPLE as "Don't let them watch it!" It really isn't, because you can't ALWAYS be there to mantain what your child is exposed to. I reiterate: CENSORSHIP IS IN PLACE IN CARTOONS SO IT CAN BE EASIER FOR A PARENT TO CHOOSE WHAT THEIR KIDS WATCH! IT IS NOT A PARENTAL TOOL TO RAISE YOUR KID OFF OF!

Anytime a parent say they are worried about what their kid takes in, people blow it out of proportion to make them look like overly anal people who wouldn't let their kids use a butter knife. There's not relation to splash mountain the ride and the viewing level of it. Again, please do not insult my intelligence by making suck a poor example to get a chuckle.

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Maybe some people in here can't, but I can, because I'm older and have lived through the years.  Listen, the majority of the 80's cartoons were 30 minute toy commercials.  The few that weren't, like the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon I mentioned, were definitely deemed more violent back in the day.  Hell even some of the others weren't.

And I can as well. I remember the cartoons from the 1980's and the 90's clearly. They were more violent compared to what was ON tv back in those days. Times have changed and content has changed.

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What kids today are getting is either Dubbed Anime, or cheap Flash-made [parasitic bomb].  I have nothing against dubbed anime, since the US can't produce good cartoons anymore, but even so, they're being censored for parents like you who are afraid that because they're child sees a little violence from their cartoons, hear some nasty curse words, play some violent video games, or watch an R Rated movie, that it's somehow going to corrupt their child.

Wow. You just keep assuming and blowing statements out of proportion which is--odd for you. I never said that those things will be the bane of mankind or the thing that rots childrens minds. But rather something that needs to be controlled when it comes to CHILD PROGRAMMING. Personally, I intend to move my daughter up to more mature things as she ages or what I believe is acceptable. I won't be showing her Texas Chainsaw when she's five but I'd have little worry about that when she is 13 or 15.

As for language, hell her first word literally was "[tornado fang]!" because I dropped my P3-3X exhaust on my foot and yelled it. As for what games she'd play, it'd be the same as I got. You start with Mario 1 and work your way up. I am cool with the game violencing--hell, I intend to raise her as a fighter in kung-fu--as I am the degree of what she's playing. For example: I'd let her play street fighter or things like brawl if she were ten now, but Resident evil is off limits.

Not only because of the violent deaths, but things like that can lead to night paranoia in some people or temperary terrors. Age 15 or so, I would tell her go for it.

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Take Gundam Wing, for example.  In Episode 34 "And It's Name Is Epyon", in the Censored Toonami Version, when Heero talks to Treize, the line "I don't believe in God." is cut from the episode, but shown during the Midnight Run version.  Why was that censored?  There's nothing vulgar, profane, sexual, or anything like that in that phrase.  It's just Heero voicing his opinion about his beliefs.  Is it right to censor that just so kids can't hear that the "hero" of the cartoon doesn't believe in God?  Did they fear that parents were going to complain about something so meaningless, cause they think it would teach their child that They shouldn't believe in God?  Where do you draw the line between what they can censor from us and our children, and what they can't?

That's an over-drastic example and stupid editing on the us's end due to me not caring for religion. But again. You are taking my stance on censorship to another level that I never said. And I never understand why they would show certain animes towards kids in the us due to the overall opinion and contrast of what is kid acceptable in japan and what is in the us. And lemme be clear so this cannot be picked apart and blown out of proportion--I am NOT saying kids should not watch anime. I am saying that for a country that is so anal retentive about this stuff, bringing it over and butchering it doesn't seem like a logical choice.

I'd perfer to see what is there in the first place, but sometimes, what's said in the US verisons are better worded than the Japanese verisons and done with better emotion. Hell, even nintendo admits that the japanese have a harder time expressing emotions properly than americans do. I rememeber seeing that on an episode of G4's ICONS.

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And that's the issue with Censorship. It has nothing to do with older being better.  It has to do with scared parents telling the rest of us what we, and OTHER parents, can and cannot do/watch/play/etc, because they can't/don't think they can actually PARENT their child.

You know, the people who are literally like that are about 5% of the population of parents. There's a difference between concern and being scared. When you're concerned you do things like check what the rating for a show is before you let a five year old see it. When you're SCARED you start editing out the purple teletubby because you think he's gay.

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By the logic of your way of thinking, if the Mega Man series was deemed

Again, you're assuming.

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"too violent" for children to play by the censorship bureau, and we as parents would be arrested for buying it for them, THAT would be perfectly acceptable because "Well, it's okay since my child will be shielded from this violence and those parents shouldn't be buying it for their child anyway!"  THAT's the issue with censorship.  It tells EVERYONE what we CAN and CANNOT watch, play, do, etc and tells us what is too violent for our children to be watching.

Okay. That was random and I have no idea HOW you got that out of my post at all. But you're overreacting to my statements and putting words in my...uh...keyboard? Again, censorship is there to HELP choose what is acceptable for your child to be exposed to as far as video games go. While I think they are overprotentious douchebags, the ESRB is helpfull in the sense that parents who WOULD say some stupid [parasitic bomb] like that have no grounds to stand on due to the label being right THERE and letting them KNOW what they're buying. And if they buy GTA 3 for their kid and are surprised by the content (Something which a lady did for her kid when I was working at gamestop and she came back an hour later, yelling at me.) then they are stupid.

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Ramzal, obviously I am not your daughter's father, therefor I cannot tell her what she can and cannot watch, nor say what is too violent or vulgar for them to watch or listen too.  So what the [tornado fang] right do these people have to tell me or my future child what is too violent for them to watch or listen too or play?  Just like I'm not your daughter's parent, these people aren't my future child's parent. 

Again, you're seeing it as some group who is sitting in a dark mountain, plotting to controll kids and peoples minds. It's not that serious. Censorship is a tool. One that can either be used because it can be usefull or ignored because some cases are stupid. Again, it HELPS parents make decisions on what their kid should or should not watch or listen to. As in, it makes them -aware- of what they are viewing and watching. As far as new cartoons come out these days, I am not in favor of MOST of them because they are always yelling and are drawn poorly.

However, what I was saying that I am cool with them making shows that are the diet coke of viewing pleasure before moving kids onto red-bull. When it comes to letting your kids watch certain things, it's a matter of progressing them to less and less censored material gradually, not sheilding them and thinking that's okay. There is a grey shade---a middle ground to the subject of censorship. That is the stance I'm taking and until people stop BS'ing themselves and stop saying that "I love it, everything should be censored!" or "I hate it, everything should run ramped", we--as society in general are going to be a flock of morons arguing over who is right, when the truth is that the grey patch in the middle is what is best.

Also, as far as the people who try to say what your future kids should watch, just don't tune into their programming and don't listen to them. Jack Thompson would have been such an easier situation if gamers would have just ignored him. All we did was give him more fuel by coaxing him by making sites with his head exploding and proving his point in that sections eyes that we are overviolent cavemen. As you can see, people like that destroy -themselves- in the long run by taking what they stand for too far. The evidence of that is his disbarrment. Gamers did nothing in that situation outside of making it worse by giving him more ammo and attention. And that was something we played into his hands with.

Don't make the same mistake with people who take censorship too far.

As far as the music info goes, that was me referring to previous statements in the last page about anime music being removed and clearifying that subject due to knowing someone personally who deals with it on a daily level. You know. Clearing confusion and making some aware of how it works so they can be more accepting towards the outcome.

And personally, as a parent--I'll say again, I am fine with censorship. However, I am not ignorant to the point that I think I can protect or raise my kid on edited tv. That's what morons with little responcibility factor do. I'm fine with my kid violencing people when she'd have to. Hell, I already made her first quarter staff a few weeks ago and her first bokken has already been constructed when she was nine months old. She will learn how to kick the crap out of people and won't be hairpulling and scratching in fights. :P

My overall point--in as simple as I put it in an example of music/movies/and gaming is what I believe is acceptable for my kid by age and content.

Age 5:
Music: Light rock, jazz, classical and trance. NO RAP!
Movies: Disney movies, pixar, stupid plotted kid drama's
Games:  You EARN your way to a ps3 by conquering the NES first. Mario, LoZ, Ducktails, Metal gear.

Age 10:

Music: Commerical rock (Linkin park level.), love songs, and all mentioned before. NO RAP!
Movies: Action movies, drama, kung-fu flicks from Bruce Lee, Samu Hung, to Tony Jaa and beyond.
Games: Rated T games.

Age 15: Anything but rap.
Movies: Have fun seeing Saw XIII
Games: You've made your way to survival horrors.

Age 18:
Nothing I can do here. Your choice.

Age 100: NO RAP!

I'm sorry. Rap just...sucks. XD

And while I have made several race aimed comments, I speak only because I've lived in city areas where that is highly the case. That and I'm black and mean no ill will to any race--just the people who prove stupid sterotypes right. YEAH! YOU HEARD ME, 50!

Edit: And I'll say this, just so we're clear. Violent cartoons do not make for violent people. But over exposer towards them as far as a child goes it not healthy for their minds. However, children need to know the truth of matters towards violence and death. And honestly, that's the parents responcibility to -talk- to them about it. Not the tv so they can see Major Hughs die. Censorship is something that should be used as a tool. NOT a crutch.



Offline Align

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Reply #51 on: May 09, 2009, 03:50:32 PM
things weren't better when you were a kid
you just didn't know what was good and what was bad, and/or forgot about all the shitty stuff

Always remember Sturgeons Law. It has always been true.



Offline TeaOfJay

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Reply #52 on: May 09, 2009, 07:33:25 PM
I'm just going to chime in with possibly useless triva.

I've been watching the Simpsons ever since I was five years old. As I was watching the Simpsons when I was younger, my parents would tell me something like "That's what you don't do."

I would think that I turned out alright. I haven't tried to pull off one of Homer's stunts or tried to re-enact what goes on in the Itchy and Scratchy shorts.

Not sure if this would work with everyone, but it's something that happened to me that I felt would fit in with the topic discussion.

So again, media blamers corrupt children.



Offline RockmanHalo

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Reply #53 on: May 09, 2009, 07:57:10 PM
Censorship in general is a laughable thing. Remember kiddies: "You can always turn the dial"

Also, songs don't always have to be profane or about sex, drugs, or violence. I love "Cheeseburger in Paradise", and it's a song about a cheeseburger. Then again, I hate a lot of this generations music with a passion, so I might be a bit bias.

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Offline Fxeni

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Reply #54 on: May 12, 2009, 12:24:10 AM
I personally think that censoring something that's already made is wrong, and shouldn't be done. Don't think that it's appropriate for a certain age group? Then put a damn rating on it. At least, it should be that simple, but some parents don't even bother looking at the rating, as stupid as that is.

In the end, it's mostly about the parenting. While it's true that parents can't be around all the time, that doesn't give the right to censor everything. The parents should explain what's right and wrong when it comes to what the child sees, instead of relying on the media to censor out all the questionable content. Start explaining things at an early age, and usually most bad influences can be avoided. Of course, you can't expect kids to be perfect, and you can't always blame the parents or the media for how the act. What's needed is a healthy rating system that doesn't butcher shows to pieces, and for the parents to actually follow said rating system. That's not easily achievable, unfortunately... especially the latter.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #55 on: May 12, 2009, 02:12:15 AM
This would be well put if not for the fact that it's easier in theory than it is in execution. There is a correlation to what a child views to what kind of person they grow to be. The reason why so many kids get exposed to bad media is that parents can't always be around to -see- what their children are taking in. There's always at least a twenty minute window--altogether--when a parent is seperated from a child during the day. And we all know that because those were the times we used to turn to a show we weren't supposed to watch or go and do stupid things.

The reason why things are censored and made so sugary sweet is that if a parent has to leave the room with the child still watching tv, they can be assured that while they are gone, the child is still watching safe programming. People say that blaiming cartoons and music and media is an excuse for bad parenting, but with most cases it really isn't due to what the child can be exposed to outside of a period of parental supervision and an obvious causation when the child's additude begins to change for the worst. Although, I fully agree with you that the media is NOT a parental tool.

You are correct that what a child views has to do with what type of person they grow up to be, but 97% of that is what they view in REAL LIFE, not in cartoons or "bad" media.  The majority of personalities that a child ends up with grows from the type of household they grow up in, the type of friends they have, and their own personal experiences in real life.  That "twenty minute" window of watching something "naughty" on TV during the day has little to nothing to do with anything.  And I will say it again, blaming cartoons and music and media IS an excuse for bad parenting, because if parented well, that "twenty minute" window of non-parental exposure won't corrupt them at all.  It's the same thing as teaching them how to look both ways before crossing the street, not to talk or ride with strangers, and many other various life lessons. 

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And a lot who've watched what you did at the same age where effected by that in a negative way. The other side of the fence shouldn't be ignored here.

Really?  In what way were these people, "negatively effected?"  Did they go out and start shooting people like Arnold and Stallone?  Unless you are referring to the whole Gangsta, dressin up like 50 Cent thing, because again, that had to do with parenting and the type of life that they grew up with.  Unless I'm mistaken, the type of neighborhood you're referring to is the "ghetto", and to get into why a lot of those kids dress up like that and act that way is to get into a whole statistical and philosophical debate that can go on and on.
 
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That's the kicker and why censorship is in place. What a child initially views/hears, they see it as something that's right to say or do. If you put a kid in front of a tv and they see classic looney toons, they see it as--shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is funny. When the outcome is...well, only funny if Joe Quesada is on the business end of the shotgun. Censorship is there to help in deciding what is good or bad for your children to watch and what could be acceptable.

That's because in cartoons or movies, shooting someones in the face with a shotgun IS funny, because it's make believe.  That's where the parenting comes in, teaching your child the difference between fantasy and reality, between right and wrong.  It's teaching them that they will NOT float upward by holding a few balloons and jumping off the roof, or that shooting someone in the face with a shotgun is funny in a fantasy world, but tragic in reality.  If anything, that's a reason NOT to censor violence, because it shows the horror of it.  It's why, for the past 5-8 years, our media has not shown, nor been allowed to show the tragedy of the War we are in and tries to censor it from the people, because they are deciding what is good or bad for us to watch.

However, we don't really see anymore Looney Tunes type cartoons anymore, do we?  I'm actually asking, because I don't watch a lot of cartoons on TV anymore, but I haven't seen anything like that in a long time, due to censorship deciding what is good for me.

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However, that is no excuse to leave them in front of the tele and let that decide for them, they do need parental interations.

But THAT'S what they do and THAT'S where the blame comes in.  This is the point I'm trying to get across.  The majority of these people use the media & cartoons & music as an excuse because they DO just leave them in front of the Television because they've had a long day at work, or a long week, or whatever.  So they leave it up to the censorship bureau to do their parenting for them.

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It's more of a mixture of the two. Namely if it's a city like NYC. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and guess that most of those kids he see's are in the hispanic and african american majority. Those two races have a large problem with a lack of parental direction due to a lack of a father figure, losey moms,and music and movies they take too seriously in their heads. I've grown up in way too many ghettos to not see the obvious of music AND poor parenting go hand in hand as to when your kid is bleeding in the street because they wanted to be as tough as 50. (Which, he really is a pansy. >_>)

You are indeed correct about the majority of kids he sees, but you could've stopped right there at the part I bolded & underlined.  This, once again, is my point.  These people watch the same movies I do, listen to the same music I do, and play the same games that I do.  So logically, if the rest of us grew up fine watching and listening to all the same stuff, then obviously something else is the problem, namely the part I just bolded and underlined.  If the music did indeed influence that kid to "be as tough as 50", I blame the parenting, or lack there of, as well as the type of environment that kid grew up in for the kids situation. 

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In Avatar The Last Airbender there are debates--in the show weither it is right or wrong to kill the Fire Lord in the grand scheme of preserving peace. As in, they said the word "Kill" rather than "Destroy" and "Taking a life" rather than "Obliterate". They've loosened up quite some time since Dugeons & Dragon's, man. And Avatar is -aimed- towards kids to watch and I think that IS an exceptable level of censorship so kids are made aware of certain things in show rather than just being blinded and pampered.

That's great.  My niece loves that show.  Good to know she has good taste.  However, that's ONE cartoon, and I believe it's over now too.  The 80's & 90's had a lot of them.  And again, your original basis was G.I.Joe, a cartoon so horribly censored that it sucked.  From what it sounds like, we need more cartoons like Avatar, in my opinion.  However, I don't see any coming out.  If there are, then that's a good thing and I'd be very happy.

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That wasn't my point at all and you kind of blew my statement out of proportion. My point was that comparing the violent content, they have loosened up. Stan Lee almost got into a lawsuit situation over what goes on in the Spider-man 1990's cartoon as far as censorship goes and it's a shame he didn't get his way. Shoulda been like the comics.

Perhaps I did, and for that I'll apologize.  However, I still think the Spidey cartoon comparison is a poor one, due to the fact that the violence is in part due to the animation, not the storytelling. 

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Again, you're assuming that what I'm saying that "TV = bad." What I was saying was that media censorship has a part in what a child grows to be. Not a large part but still a part. WHATEVER your child is exposed to, that is what they are going to take in and use to form their personal tastes and personality.

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I mean, yes, they do do a lot of shielding for the kids. But as a parent myself, I rather not have a cartoon for my daughter to watch--with say, Spounge Bob with his dick hanging out or him being a pimp. It's about making sure kids don't turn into vulgar little jack-asses. Need further proof of that? Drive into any area like in NYC where there are black people with kids, and their kids are dressed like 50 cent, and headbobbing to their father's iPod of Candyshop.

What I bolded & underlined lead to that "TV = Bad" assumption, because the extremity of this statement warrants the immediate thought, for me at least, that you think that's what is going to happen, if censorship isn't there to protect us. 

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Wow, nice move insulting my intelligence as well as ability to raise a child and underestimating what the job of parenting actually is. It's harder than what you read about and harder than what your parents tell you. It's not so SIMPLE as "Don't let them watch it!" It really isn't, because you can't ALWAYS be there to mantain what your child is exposed to. I reiterate: CENSORSHIP IS IN PLACE IN CARTOONS SO IT CAN BE EASIER FOR A PARENT TO CHOOSE WHAT THEIR KIDS WATCH! IT IS NOT A PARENTAL TOOL TO RAISE YOUR KID OFF OF!

Anytime a parent say they are worried about what their kid takes in, people blow it out of proportion to make them look like overly anal people who wouldn't let their kids use a butter knife. There's not relation to splash mountain the ride and the viewing level of it. Again, please do not insult my intelligence by making suck a poor example to get a chuckle.

LoL, my parents never said it was easy.  Obviously, raising a child is not an easy task.  There are people in this world who should NOT be parents, like the majority of ghetto families which we have discussed already.  Never did I say you shouldn't be one.  From what it sounds like, you're a great father.  The POINT I was getting across was that if you properly parent your child, CARTOONS DON'T MATTER. NOR DO MOVIES & MUSIC.  YES, you cannot always be there to monitor what your child is exposed to in life. obviously.  You can't censor the world from them.  This is my point.  The level of violence in these cartoon don't matter, because it's a cartoon.  They should be able to watch whatever they want, and not be influenced by it.   Honestly, if this is just true with me, and my friends and family, then I must live in some truly sheltered world.

And I'm sorry, but you DO sound like a over-concerned parent, just because of what you think Rap music can do to a child, due to your own personal experiences and hatred of Rap.  Again though, I'm not one to judge.  We all live our lives & raise our children based on our own personal experiences in life.  From what it seems, the ghetto & rap music have influenced you in a negative way, compounding in a hatred of the Rap genre of music, and not wanting to expose your daughter to it. 

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Wow. You just keep assuming and blowing statements out of proportion which is--odd for you. I never said that those things will be the bane of mankind or the thing that rots childrens minds. But rather something that needs to be controlled when it comes to CHILD PROGRAMMING. Personally, I intend to move my daughter up to more mature things as she ages or what I believe is acceptable. I won't be showing her Texas Chainsaw when she's five but I'd have little worry about that when she is 13 or 15.

Again, assumption comes from the above quote from your first statement. 

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As for language, hell her first word literally was "[tornado fang]!" because I dropped my P3-3X exhaust on my foot and yelled it. As for what games she'd play, it'd be the same as I got. You start with Mario 1 and work your way up. I am cool with the game violencing--hell, I intend to raise her as a fighter in kung-fu--as I am the degree of what she's playing. For example: I'd let her play street fighter or things like brawl if she were ten now, but Resident evil is off limits.

Not only because of the violent deaths, but things like that can lead to night paranoia in some people or temperary terrors. Age 15 or so, I would tell her go for it.

And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.  I honestly hope that turns out well.  My point, and anger, stem from the fact that there are a whole whole bunch of "concerned parents" out there who would deem that to be unacceptable.  Like the thing Quickie mentioned about them banning or trying to ban Tag because it's too violent. 

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That's an over-drastic example and stupid editing on the us's end due to me not caring for religion. But again. You are taking my stance on censorship to another level that I never said. And I never understand why they would show certain animes towards kids in the us due to the overall opinion and contrast of what is kid acceptable in japan and what is in the us. And lemme be clear so this cannot be picked apart and blown out of proportion--I am NOT saying kids should not watch anime. I am saying that for a country that is so anal retentive about this stuff, bringing it over and butchering it doesn't seem like a logical choice.

Over-Drastic?  How?  It wasn't stupid editing. It's not as if they removed it entirely.  That would be editing. It was censored for children.  Why?  They already cut "God of Death" into "Great Destroyer".  So why censor this?  You say below about how I think these people sit in a dark cave and are plotting to control our minds.  This example of censorship, as well as what the media shows us, tells me that they do.  Otherwise, something like this would never be censored out.  The phrase is completely non-vulgar, yet it was cut out of the true version, along with the vulgarity.  You and I might not care about religion, but clearly the people in charge do.

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I'd perfer to see what is there in the first place, but sometimes, what's said in the US verisons are better worded than the Japanese verisons and done with better emotion. Hell, even nintendo admits that the japanese have a harder time expressing emotions properly than americans do. I rememeber seeing that on an episode of G4's ICONS.

The creator of Cowboy Bebop even said that the Dub version is superior to the JP Version. 

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You know, the people who are literally like that are about 5% of the population of parents. There's a difference between concern and being scared. When you're concerned you do things like check what the rating for a show is before you let a five year old see it. When you're SCARED you start editing out the purple teletubby because you think he's gay.

Or removing the phrase "I don't believe in God." from a cartoon.  Also, I disagree.  Concerned parents try to make sure their kids are doing well in school, and make sure that they stay on the right path.  Scared Parents are those who think that Rated R movies are going to influence their child more than the life lessons taught to them.  That's merely my opinion though.

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Again, you're assuming.

Okay. That was random and I have no idea HOW you got that out of my post at all. But you're overreacting to my statements and putting words in my...uh...keyboard? Again, censorship is there to HELP choose what is acceptable for your child to be exposed to as far as video games go. While I think they are overprotentious douchebags, the ESRB is helpfull in the sense that parents who WOULD say some stupid [parasitic bomb] like that have no grounds to stand on due to the label being right THERE and letting them KNOW what they're buying. And if they buy GTA 3 for their kid and are surprised by the content (Something which a lady did for her kid when I was working at gamestop and she came back an hour later, yelling at me.) then they are stupid.

Again, quoted post above.  Also, I had the same experience working at a GameStop. 

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Again, you're seeing it as some group who is sitting in a dark mountain, plotting to controll kids and peoples minds. It's not that serious. Censorship is a tool. One that can either be used because it can be usefull or ignored because some cases are stupid. Again, it HELPS parents make decisions on what their kid should or should not watch or listen to. As in, it makes them -aware- of what they are viewing and watching. As far as new cartoons come out these days, I am not in favor of MOST of them because they are always yelling and are drawn poorly.

I once again go back to my Gundam Wing example, as well as my current media during wartime example.  Also, what you're are describing is a Rating System, not censorship.

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However, what I was saying that I am cool with them making shows that are the diet coke of viewing pleasure before moving kids onto red-bull. When it comes to letting your kids watch certain things, it's a matter of progressing them to less and less censored material gradually, not sheilding them and thinking that's okay. There is a grey shade---a middle ground to the subject of censorship. That is the stance I'm taking and until people stop BS'ing themselves and stop saying that "I love it, everything should be censored!" or "I hate it, everything should run ramped", we--as society in general are going to be a flock of morons arguing over who is right, when the truth is that the grey patch in the middle is what is best.

That's not how it came across to me.  However, if I misread, I apologize.  Also, we already are a flock of morons arguing over who is right.  We always have been.  The grey shade will not change that.  Ever.

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Also, as far as the people who try to say what your future kids should watch, just don't tune into their programming and don't listen to them.

This bolded & underlined statement was my point.  Except, the people who try to say what my future kids should watch are the censorship bureau.  They are the ones who dictate what is too violent for my future children to watch on TV by censoring the hell out of it.

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Edit: And I'll say this, just so we're clear. Violent cartoons do not make for violent people. But over exposer towards them as far as a child goes it not healthy for their minds.  However, children need to know the truth of matters towards violence and death. And honestly, that's the parents responcibility to -talk- to them about it. Not the tv so they can see Major Hughs die. Censorship is something that should be used as a tool. NOT a crutch.

Just so we're clear, I still disagree.  Over-exposure to violent cartoons should not affect their minds if properly parented.  Like you just said...
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However, children need to know the truth of matters towards violence and death. And honestly, that's the parents responcibility to -talk- to them about it. Not the tv so they can see Major Hughs die.

If the parents do indeed heed their responsibility and talk to them about it, and not leave them sitting in front of the TV, even that "twenty minute" window of time that they are not there will not matter.  My proof is my child-psychologist friend I discussed before, whom has told me that violent cartoons/music/movies have nothing to do with the situation a lot of his students are in.  My proof is my family and friends.  My proof is myself.



Offline Flame

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Reply #56 on: May 12, 2009, 02:23:23 AM
ignoring all previous posts, i will say this. how is it no one understands what i mean when I refer to music? i DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT mean things like opening and endings, if its in another language, im perfectly alright with them changing it, its understandable. however, what i refer to is in show soundtracks. little ditty tunes made specifically for the show. things like... lets say, using
5D's as an example, since thats all that comes to mind, the eyecatch. that has no japanese lyrics. no singing at all. what I mean is the non vocal soundtrack for music that plays during the show.
though I suppose it still falls under expensive. even so, You's thin they could be a  bit more inventive and at least make different music as to not have the same exact soundtrack in almost every show they license... at least put effort into your job.

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night paranoia in some people or temperary terrors.
haha... Lemme tell you bout the time I saw a bit of Nightmare on elm street at a haloween party. It was the 5'th grade, I was 10-ish. I had one of those drawing mannequins, and could not keep it in my room for a good month. I was scared shitless of the night time for a while too, but I got over it. builds character. i was 10. thats around the age kids are all tough guys cuz their seniors in elementary school, and start seeing horror movies. I didnt do so well, so i made sure to AVOID horror as best I could. I decided to avoid the genre when I was 10.

So, not just the parent, but the kids themselves have to have a certain level of responsibility, and common sense. which however, also depends on ones parenting. whenever I change to channel my 9 on a weekend and see something that resembles a horror movie, 9which they love to show...) I flip the channel. always have.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #57 on: May 12, 2009, 05:34:21 AM
ignoring all previous posts, i will say this. how is it no one understands what i mean when I refer to music? i DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT mean things like opening and endings, if its in another language, im perfectly alright with them changing it, its understandable. however, what i refer to is in show soundtracks. little ditty tunes made specifically for the show. things like... lets say, using
5D's as an example, since thats all that comes to mind, the eyecatch. that has no japanese lyrics. no singing at all. what I mean is the non vocal soundtrack for music that plays during the show.
though I suppose it still falls under expensive. even so, You's thin they could be a  bit more inventive and at least make different music as to not have the same exact soundtrack in almost every show they license... at least put effort into your job.

IIRC, Ramzal addressed that issue.  It's a business & monetary standpoint.



Offline Flame

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Reply #58 on: May 12, 2009, 05:45:50 AM
yeah. its a pity though. Side comment: besides, doesnt funimation do it? and from what I hear, theyre not exactly rich.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #59 on: May 12, 2009, 05:51:14 AM
Also, so you know the traditional soundtrack terminology, a Soundtrack's composition is also referred to as a Score (I.E. - Danny Elfman composed the score of Spider-Man 1) while the musical songs provided by other artists are called Soundtracks.



Offline TeaOfJay

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Reply #60 on: May 12, 2009, 07:21:14 AM
Funimation is just awesome, Flame. They're already subbing FMA:Brotherhood for FREE.

Plus they're also buying up anime from dead dubbing companies and re-releasing them to the public.

Besides, it's 4KIDS. They're fail on an epic scale.



Offline Flame

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Reply #61 on: May 12, 2009, 07:23:00 AM
Funimation is just awesome, Flame. They're already subbing FMA:Brotherhood for FREE.

Plus they're also buying up anime from dead dubbing companies and re-releasing them to the public.

Besides, it's 4KIDS. They're fail on an epic scale.
all my questions have been sated by this post. Good day sir.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Nekomata

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Reply #62 on: May 12, 2009, 04:41:12 PM
FunFact: the reason Macross 7 will never be licensed in america is because no localization company can afford the rights to both the series and the soundtrack.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #63 on: May 12, 2009, 05:42:17 PM
FunFact: the reason Macross 7 will never be licensed in america is because no localization company can afford the rights to both the series and the soundtrack.

Didn't it also have to do with these two companies constantly fighting over legal issues, which shows no signs of EVER being resolved?   8D



Offline Nekomata

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Reply #64 on: May 12, 2009, 06:08:11 PM
Didn't it also have to do with these two companies constantly fighting over legal issues, which shows no signs of EVER being resolved?   8D
that goes under rights to the series :P



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #65 on: May 12, 2009, 06:30:21 PM
that goes under rights to the series :P

RIGHT!  XD



Offline Flame

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Reply #66 on: May 13, 2009, 05:54:24 AM
that actually reminds me of the current situation with Tatsunoko vs Capcom, with like a gazillion companies that have to give consent here. >__>;

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #67 on: May 13, 2009, 06:00:31 AM
that actually reminds me of the current situation with Tatsunoko vs Capcom, with like a gazillion companies that have to give consent here. >__>;

It's mostly about money.

Take MTV's Daria, for example.  It's a brilliant show.  It's quite possible that we will NEVER see that show on DVD, due to having to pay royalties to all the different musicians they used songs from in pretty much every single episode.