Topic: Megaman vs Street Fighter Fangame

[Treleus]

BWAHAHAHAAAA. I absolutely love how you tell people to stop seeing red when Capcom is once again making the same stupid mistake as Legends 3, which you even acknowledge. Riddle me this; How do you judge the worth of a product when, from a business standpoint, it's worthless? This game is essentially a free t-shirt. It costs so little to make that they are shooting it out of a bazooka at you. Mind you, free t-shirts are awesome, just like this game looks (Again, way to go Sonic ZH). But to use this to judge the PAINFULLY [tornado fang]ing OBVIOUS FACT that MegaMan fans want more of MegaMan is [tornado fang]ing absurd. The fact they they continue to say out loud that they are monitoring how well the game does only continues to hurt their PR cred. The only difference between this stupidity and the stupidity of the Legends 3 prototype debacle is #1. they didn't charge for this one and #2. this doesn't force people to go out and buy a system just to prove the prototype's worth. Continuing this discussion with these next two questions...

There's a subtle distinction between the free t-shirt bazooka and this game, though: the former is a "push" while the latter is a "pull". Rather than Capcom pushing a product on us they think we'll buy or invest in, they're allowing us to pull a finished product they're sponsoring for free. This could be a particularly useful measurement, because there is virtually no barrier to this game penetrating the market of Mega Man players. Don't have a PC? Go borrow a laptop at the library and hammer away at it for a few hours--or borrow a family member's/friend's PC. If nothing else, a game like this is great for gauging the arguably un(der)tapped PC market, but moreover it's good for renewing reasonable expectations for how much Mega Man could (or should) sell. This is something that one or another side of Capcom doesn't seem confident about--either Japan or America. I'm thinking CoA is on our side when it comes to whether or not Mega Man is (or can be) profitable.

It's an interesting distinction when you consider that Legends 3 has more in common with the "push" example than the "pull", since there was nothing to pull from the Legends 3 project other than news and trailers. Legends 3 required investment, whereas downloading a free game (like SFxMM AND Xover) does not.

MegaMan 9 & 10 were cheap games as well that gave us new bosses and new soundtracks. For everything included in them, they were only $20 a pop, and Capcom hasn't even continued giving us that. As sad as it is to say this, Street Fighter vs. MegaMan represents why people are still pissed and continuing with their "cynicism and bile." What it represents is that Capcom is putting the most minimal effort into giving fans MegaMan. It's the exact same reason why people were insulted by XOver as well. Thankfully, at least an awesome fan made this game and not whomever made XOver. SF vs. MM shows actual effort put into it.

While I do think it's time Capcom got more ambitious with Mega Man, I wouldn't say they've only ever been putting in minimal effort. Did everyone forget Mega Man: Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X? They were just the not-8-bit stuff people were (and still are) asking for, and yet they didn't do well. Blame whatever you want on that--I blame the choice of PSP with the benefit of hindsight--but I think that's something important to remember when evaluating how much effort Capcom has been putting into Mega Man recently. More relevantly, the Mega Man Legends games were ambitious as [tornado fang], but they tanked with each sequel. Between that history and the failure of the handheld reboots to move enough paper, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be reluctant to greenlight Legends 3, as much as everyone involved wanted that game to happen. Keiji, his team, and us Legends fans could only push them so far, evidently. Even Mega Man 9 & 10, albeit the most successful titles in recent memory, weren't enough to offset the times and experiences they've had where Mega Man underperformed. They know Mega Man isn't working out, and they either have no idea what to do with him yet or are working on something big. Those are the only two reasons I can think of why they're being so coy these years. They want more time, but at the same time they don't want to ignore us, so here we are in this limbo of sky-high demand, depressed expectations, and disappointment to go around: cameos, merchandise, and low-cost experiments.

Capcom will NEVER be off the hook or stop being met with the most deep-seated cynicism and bile until they give fans something worthwhile that shows effort and care were put into making a quality product. It's what pretty much every consumer wants.

Then it would be in both the consumers' and the producers' best interests to exercise patience. When it comes right down to it, that's really all we can do. Capcom probably needs that time to deliver something great with Mega Man again. Great things take time, and Mega Man's not the only pony in their stable. In the meantime, while they might seem like irritating and unsatisfying gestures, I think it's better to take things like Xover and SFxMM as treats to tide us over. Better to enjoy them than to use grand, unmet expectations against them. We agree on that much, but that being said ...

I agree with the wait and see thing though. Dec 17th (while nowhere near as important as Dec 15th ) could prove fruitful for MM fans. Finally. However, if they want to avoid more flack then it better be something worthwhile. I, being me Protoman Blues, would be absolutely happy with another 8-bit MM11 announcement. But that's me and my love of 8-Bit Playable Blues. It cannot and should not be another game like that. It'll only compound the current situation.

... I think it's also time to move on from the 8-bit throwbacks. Maybe even the 16-bit/32-bit throwbacks as well. While I'd personally be thrilled to see a 16-bit X9, it's neither vital nor what I want to see most out of Mega Man.

[spoiler]Cross over the misty mountain's cold with me on December 15th[/spoiler]

[The Great Gonzo]

Between that history and the failure of the handheld reboots to move enough paper, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be reluctant to greenlight Legends 3, as much as everyone involved wanted that game to happen.

So it was okay to get everyone's hopes up for nothing and completely fail to take responsibility for it? Keep in mind, the Prototype, which was supposed to help gauge how well the final game might sell, got canned before release too.

Then it would be in both the consumers' and the producers' best interests to exercise patience.

I've heard "patience" thrown around so many times in past arguments that it's just about lost all meaning (in this context, at least). It's easy to TELL people to be patient, but it's another thing for them to DO that when Capcom has given us either total garbage or empty words.

And yes, I know that Street Fighter was once considered a "dead" series. From the sound of it, it took a freaking miracle to revive SF. I can't speak for you, but I absolutely do not want to take any chances.

I think it's better to take things like Xover and SFxMM as treats to tide us over. Better to enjoy them than to use grand, unmet expectations against them.

Actual care and effort (in Xover's case, NOT SFxMM's) is a "grand, unmet expectation?"


(...[parasitic bomb], so much for "no fights".)

[Protoman Blues]

There's a subtle distinction between the free t-shirt bazooka and this game, though: the former is a "push" while the latter is a "pull". Rather than Capcom pushing a product on us they think we'll buy or invest in, they're allowing us to pull a finished product they're sponsoring for free. This could be a particularly useful measurement, because there is virtually no barrier to this game penetrating the market of Mega Man players. Don't have a PC? Go borrow a laptop at the library and hammer away at it for a few hours--or borrow a family member's/friend's PC. If nothing else, a game like this is great for gauging the arguably un(der)tapped PC market, but moreover it's good for renewing reasonable expectations for how much Mega Man could (or should) sell. This is something that one or another side of Capcom doesn't seem confident about--either Japan or America. I'm thinking CoA is on our side when it comes to whether or not Mega Man is (or can be) profitable.

It's an interesting distinction when you consider that Legends 3 has more in common with the "push" example than the "pull", since there was nothing to pull from the Legends 3 project other than news and trailers. Legends 3 required investment, whereas downloading a free game (like SFxMM AND Xover) does not.

It's still an irrelevant measuring tool, because the main thing they want to know is "is MegaMan still profitable?" A free downloadable game does nothing to accomplish this for every reason you mentioned. You cannot measure a product's worth when it's not going to net a profit in any way, especially in this new age of "free internet downloadable swag" we live in. I have Angry Birds: Star Wars on my GalaxyMan. I got it for free. I got it because it was free. People will get this for free. Hell, if Capcom wasn't Captarded and actually put HurlOver on another platform besides iOS, I'd DL it to because it was free. This does nothing to show what the product it worth, no matter how many people download it. There is no way to know if those same amount of people who paid 0 for the game will pay $30-$60 for a new game. This is why it's a free t-shirt, regardless of push or pull. I'll go to Citi Field and try to catch a free Mets T-shirt in the 5th inning. I'd never buy one cause I'm a Yankees fan.

Also, the pull from the Legends 3 project came from the fan involvement. That's one of the reasons why when they pulled the game away from fans they were livid, and still are. I mean, let's take this game for example. Can you imagine how heartbreaking it would be if Capcom got involved with the SF vs. MM fan project, then not only pulled their funding but refused to let Sonic ZH make it at all? That's what Capcom did to their fans. They broke their hearts. And if you've ever been in love, heartbreak is not an easy thing to get over, especially when the person who broke your heart is a goddamn cocktease.

While I do think it's time Capcom got more ambitious with Mega Man, I wouldn't say they've only ever been putting in minimal effort. Did everyone forget Mega Man: Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X? They were just the not-8-bit stuff people were (and still are) asking for, and yet they didn't do well. Blame whatever you want on that--I blame the choice of PSP with the benefit of hindsight--but I think that's something important to remember when evaluating how much effort Capcom has been putting into Mega Man recently. More relevantly, the Mega Man Legends games were ambitious as [tornado fang], but they tanked with each sequel. Between that history and the failure of the handheld reboots to move enough paper, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be reluctant to greenlight Legends 3, as much as everyone involved wanted that game to happen. Keiji, his team, and us Legends fans could only push them so far, evidently. Even Mega Man 9 & 10, albeit the most successful titles in recent memory, weren't enough to offset the times and experiences they've had where Mega Man underperformed. They know Mega Man isn't working out, and they either have no idea what to do with him yet or are working on something big. Those are the only two reasons I can think of why they're being so coy these years. They want more time, but at the same time they don't want to ignore us, so here we are in this limbo of sky-high demand, depressed expectations, and disappointment to go around: cameos, merchandise, and low-cost experiments.

Mega Man: Overpowered Playable Blues and Maverick Hunter Spammable Storm Tornado were released 6 years ago. That's not recent in an industry that has such high, needy demand as video games do. Plus, those games are re-done games that once again play upon nostalgia. Yeah, they have effort put into them but they were nothing new really. And you just perfectly described everything Capcom did wrong and why people are still pissed. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Legends 3 was never going to net Capcom a huge profit. From the beginning I saw it as a "Thank You For Your Patience" game, something that all the fans could get involved with and have fun. To get people's hopes up and then dash them when it was obvious that it wouldn't be as big of a seller as a Devil May Cry or Street Fighter is just plain stupid. It destroyed their once heralded PR cred.

Then it would be in both the consumers' and the producers' best interests to exercise patience. When it comes right down to it, that's really all we can do. Capcom probably needs that time to deliver something great with Mega Man again. Great things take time, and Mega Man's not the only pony in their stable. In the meantime, while they might seem like irritating and unsatisfying gestures, I think it's better to take things like Xover and SFxMM as treats to tide us over. Better to enjoy them than to use grand, unmet expectations against them. We agree on that much, but that being said ...

... I think it's also time to move on from the 8-bit throwbacks. Maybe even the 16-bit/32-bit throwbacks as well. While I'd personally be thrilled to see a 16-bit X9, it's neither vital nor what I want to see most out of Mega Man.

[spoiler]Cross over the misty mountain's cold with me on December 15th[/spoiler]

It would be in everyone's best interests, yes. Here's the problem though; fans HAVE been patient. They were patient with Legends 3 for over a decade. As we've discussed in length, look how their patience was rewarded. People still want compensation and while Capcom doesn't owe their fans anything, they still need to give them something for vomiting all over their hopes or else this endless cynicism and bile will continue (IE: The Great Gonzo). Patience only goes so far before you realize that you are being suckered. As long as people continue to accept the "low-cost experiments" then that's all that we'll get. MM9 & 10 are fun for people like me, but it's not the future nor should it be. This is why SF vs. MM should absolutely not be used to judged fan interest in MegaMan's future. It's a good looking fan game for free.

That's my main problem with Capcom. It's not the games as much as the abject [tornado fang]ing stupidity when it comes to PR. It makes no sense from a business standpoint.

[Treleus]

So it was okay to get everyone's hopes up for nothing and completely fail to take responsibility for it? Keep in mind, the Prototype, which was supposed to help gauge how well the final game might sell, got canned before release too.

Nope! Don't believe I said that. The point wasn't that Capcom did or didn't [tornado fang] up (they did), it was why they did it. What precedent(s) they may have been looking to to inform their decision. The precedents of a big 3D spin off series and 2.5D handheld reboot games that both underperformed shouldn't be ignored. They made a mistake by letting Inafune have his way with Legends 3 while he still worked for the company (notwithstanding all the other business decisions Inafune spoke out against), and we had to find out at the worst time and place. Capcom failed us, but we still can't forget that it's Capcom's risk to take on these sort of projects. They're not a victim, but if a project doesn't pan out, they take the fall for it. Not us. Most of us just [sonic slicer] and moan about it, for better or worse.

I've heard "patience" thrown around so many times in past arguments that it's just about lost all meaning (in this context, at least). It's easy to TELL people to be patient, but it's another thing for them to DO that when Capcom has given us either total garbage or empty words.

And yes, I know that Street Fighter was once considered a "dead" series. From the sound of it, it took a freaking miracle to revive SF. I can't speak for you, but I absolutely do not want to take any chances.

Patience isn't easy. Especially when you don't know how long to wait.

Also, why are you acting like you have any commanding stake in Mega Man's future? It's not in your hands; you have no chances to take.

This is worth emphasizing in general: the only one who's in the position to take big chances here is Capcom. They're the ones we're asking to take big risks, promising that we'll love them for it with our money. Our promises aren't enough. The burden is on Capcom not only to cater to their legacy audience, but to draw in new ones and grow the brand in a way that will be successful. This could be done in any number of ways, even ones as cheap and unpopular as a game like Xover, because apparently that's doing pretty well despite everything going against it. Behold, the power of free/retro/casual/insert-buzz-word-here.

This is why something like SonicZH's game is so helpful right now. Capcom (of Japan) is not inclined to invest a lot of money in Mega Man right now, AFAWK, and online polls and forum posts don't speak as loudly as sales. So, what's the next best thing? Download traffic. It doesn't necessarily predict whether these people downloading the game would be willing to pay for it--fair point by Protoman Blues--but clearly it's the next best thing. Not to mention it's yet another good demonstration of corporate-consumer relations on Capcom's part that in the case of Mega Man, begins to repair the relation between the two.

Actual care and effort (in Xover's case, NOT SFxMM's) is a "grand, unmet expectation?"

Relative to what it is (a cheap-as-free iPhone game) vs. what people want it to be (a real Mega Man game), yeah. I'd say that's about right.

But to be fair, if SEGA can put out a decent port of Sonic 4 Episode I by themselves (and not [tornado fang] up a great port of Sonic CD by a fan), I don't see why they couldn't have made a more respectable port of MMX to the iPhone, let's say. Or perhaps made Xover a true platformer with the same RPG elements and enemies it has now, but as it is, the bar's fairly low for successful iPhone games it seems. People seem to want to play them for the convenience and social aspect moreso than the traditional gameplay value. Also, perhaps Capcom thinks it's onto something with the whole retro-celebration of not just MMX, but every franchise (except Zero ... ?)

It's still an irrelevant measuring tool, because the main thing they want to know is "is MegaMan still profitable?" A free downloadable game does nothing to accomplish this for every reason you mentioned. You cannot measure a product's worth when it's not going to net a profit in any way, especially in this new age of "free internet downloadable swag" we live in. I have Angry Birds: Star Wars on my GalaxyMan. I got it for free. I got it because it was free. People will get this for free. Hell, if Capcom wasn't Captarded and actually put HurlOver on another platform besides iOS, I'd DL it to because it was free. This does nothing to show what the product it worth, no matter how many people download it. There is no way to know if those same amount of people who paid 0 for the game will pay $30-$60 for a new game. This is why it's a free t-shirt, regardless of push or pull. I'll go to Citi Field and try to catch a free Mets T-shirt in the 5th inning. I'd never buy one cause I'm a Yankees fan.

Fair point. Free =/= profit, but free can still sell stuff. SEGA sold the Genesis with a free copy of Sonic 1. Cave Story started out free and then became a huge re-released hit. So, free doesn't get you anything in the short-term, but it can have long-term benefits.

Also, the pull from the Legends 3 project came from the fan involvement. That's one of the reasons why when they pulled the game away from fans they were livid, and still are. I mean, let's take this game for example. Can you imagine how heartbreaking it would be if Capcom got involved with the SF vs. MM fan project, then not only pulled their funding but refused to let Sonic ZH make it at all? That's what Capcom did to their fans. They broke their hearts. And if you've ever been in love, heartbreak is not an easy thing to get over, especially when the person who broke your heart is a goddamn cocktease.

Preaching to the choir, brother. My point here was that it was even less reasonable for Capcom to expect a huge turnout for Legends 3 because of the level of commitment it's Devroom phase demanded from fans. Most people just hung out their for staff updates, voting, and otherwise eating [parasitic bomb], but the real action happened with the boss design contests. So, basically you could see the game as it was being made before it gets released. Maybe people weren't too keen about spoilers, but I'm not sure I buy that entirely. Maybe just not enough people were into Legends for it to seem profitable to Capcom. This is where I fault Capcom for not going into this knowing it was a risk and intending to stay for the long haul.

It would be in everyone's best interests, yes. Here's the problem though; fans HAVE been patient. They were patient with Legends 3 for over a decade. As we've discussed in length, look how their patience was rewarded. People still want compensation and while Capcom doesn't owe their fans anything, they still need to give them something for vomiting all over their hopes or else this endless cynicism and bile will continue (IE: The Great Gonzo). Patience only goes so far before you realize that you are being suckered. As long as people continue to accept the "low-cost experiments" then that's all that we'll get. MM9 & 10 are fun for people like me, but it's not the future nor should it be. This is why SF vs. MM should absolutely not be used to judged fan interest in MegaMan's future. It's a good looking fan game for free.

That's my main problem with Capcom. It's not the games as much as the abject [tornado fang]ing stupidity when it comes to PR. It makes no sense from a business standpoint.

Let's be honest. I don't many of us think Capcom has been great at business decisions for the past I-don't-know-how-long. Their recent successes with Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Lost Planet, and Resident Evil seem to have been more the result of passionately obstinate developers determined to getting their way than it was a result of good executive leadership and business acumen. This seems like a case endemic to Japanese corporations in general. However, I don't think it's all bad, and something like SF x MM is a shining example of what could be that traditionally never was, even if it's more CoA's doing than CoJ's. It's almost like Legends 3 Devroom, which is something I want to see return along with its game.

But let's get down to the heart of the matter: what's our role in this? Honestly, I don't think it's anything more than doing what we've always been doing, with occasional works like SF x MM or MMX:C coming out here and there. We could do with a little less overreacting.

[The Great Gonzo]

Also, why are you acting like you have any commanding stake in Mega Man's future? It's not in your hands; you have no chances to take.

I meant that I didn't want to assume MM could get a revival just because SF did.

My point here was that it was even less reasonable for Capcom to expect a huge turnout for Legends 3 because of the level of commitment it's Devroom phase demanded from fans. Most people just hung out their for staff updates, voting, and otherwise eating [parasitic bomb], but the real action happened with the boss design contests.

Funny, I could've sworn that Capcom themselves said that it was okay to "sit back and watch".

[Protoman Blues]

This is worth emphasizing in general: the only one who's in the position to take big chances here is Capcom. They're the ones we're asking to take big risks, promising that we'll love them for it with our money. Our promises aren't enough. The burden is on Capcom not only to cater to their legacy audience, but to draw in new ones and grow the brand in a way that will be successful. This could be done in any number of ways, even ones as cheap and unpopular as a game like Xover, because apparently that's doing pretty well despite everything going against it. Behold, the power of free/retro/casual/insert-buzz-word-here.

This is why something like SonicZH's game is so helpful right now. Capcom (of Japan) is not inclined to invest a lot of money in Mega Man right now, AFAWK, and online polls and forum posts don't speak as loudly as sales. So, what's the next best thing? Download traffic. It doesn't necessarily predict whether these people downloading the game would be willing to pay for it--fair point by Protoman Blues--but clearly it's the next best thing. Not to mention it's yet another good demonstration of corporate-consumer relations on Capcom's part that in the case of Mega Man, begins to repair the relation between the two.

This is worth emphasizing in general as well; they're the ones talking out of their ass when it comes to the future of the franchise, thus far. They do need to attract a new audience and yet they're damn near going out of their way to not do that, as well as continuously pissing off their legacy fans with their stupidity. The last time they branched out with something to attract a new fanbase was with the EXE series. As for HurlOver, again it's a free game. It doesn't matter towards the future.

Fair point. Free =/= profit, but free can still sell stuff. SEGA sold the Genesis with a free copy of Sonic 1. Cave Story started out free and then became a huge re-released hit. So, free doesn't get you anything in the short-term, but it can have long-term benefits.

The Genesis example is irrelevant. With Cave Story, the difference is that Cave Story started off as free and then got popular enough to warrant people helping to support it. MegaMan has been around far, far longer. The SF vs. MM fangame is a very nice tribute, but not the future of the series. With XOver, if that's the future of the franchise, then I want no part of it.

Preaching to the choir, brother. My point here was that it was even less reasonable for Capcom to expect a huge turnout for Legends 3 because of the level of commitment it's Devroom phase demanded from fans. Most people just hung out their for staff updates, voting, and otherwise eating [parasitic bomb], but the real action happened with the boss design contests. So, basically you could see the game as it was being made before it gets released. Maybe people weren't too keen about spoilers, but I'm not sure I buy that entirely. Maybe just not enough people were into Legends for it to seem profitable to Capcom. This is where I fault Capcom for not going into this knowing it was a risk and intending to stay for the long haul.

No no no. The problem is that they're [tornado fang]ing idiots if they were gauging interest based on the Devroom, just like they're [tornado fang]ing idiots if they're gauging interest based on free games. As for the spoilers thing, yeah no. That wasn't the reason.

Let's be honest. I don't many of us think Capcom has been great at business decisions for the past I-don't-know-how-long. Their recent successes with Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Lost Planet, and Resident Evil seem to have been more the result of passionately obstinate developers determined to getting their way than it was a result of good executive leadership and business acumen. This seems like a case endemic to Japanese corporations in general. However, I don't think it's all bad, and something like SF x MM is a shining example of what could be that traditionally never was, even if it's more CoA's doing than CoJ's. It's almost like Legends 3 Devroom, which is something I want to see return along with its game.

Shining Example is a little too glowing. It's hopefully a small step in the right direction. But it's not the solution to the big problem.

But let's get down to the heart of the matter: what's our role in this? Honestly, I don't think it's anything more than doing what we've always been doing, with occasional works like SF x MM or MMX:C coming out here and there. We could do with a little less overreacting.

Our role in this is "customer." As a customer, we choose to buy and support a product & company that we like. When that company does well, it deserves money & praise. When that company does not do well, it deserves to know what it can do to improve. When that company royally fucks up and continues to do so, it definitely needs to know about it and that company should offer compensation for their [tornado fang] up. They don't have to, but it's really poor business strategy not to. What you might view as overreacting is some people letting a company they still like and want to support how upset they are at their lack of commitment towards their customers. Us. This is why Mirby's comment was downright laughable. They're still making the same mistakes as before.

[Mirby]

All I see in this thread now is RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (somewhat funny considering PB's current avatar).

Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic, maybe a bit naive. But here's the thing: at the end of the day this is a free video game. That distinction is important for two things:

1) Free. It doesn't cost us anything. Don't like it? You didn't spend money on it, that's okay.

2) Video game. It's just a bunch of code combined to create an adventure starring our favorite blue hero. You're getting mad over a piece of code.

Here's another thing: it was Capcom of Japan who cancelled those games, who made X1 iOS and XOver, not Capcom of America. They've always been on our side. Always been doing what they can for the fans. When making SF2 HD ReMix, they got OCR (a fan community) to do the soundtrack. When Legends 3 was cancelled, they kept our Devroom open while Japan closed theirs, because they knew the fans would want it.

It was Capcom USA who took what SonicZH here offered and made it something official.

If you want to get mad, get mad at Capcom Japan, because all your reasons for anger were caused by them. But don't get mad at CoA; they are, for all intents and purposes, just a branch office of corporate. They held no responsibility for any of those things, and were just as surprised as we were.

Also, they're promising more news. I understand some may think the actions of the past year may be unforgivable, but they're not saying that SFxMM is it. There's more. They've been celebrating SF's 25th all year, and from next Monday until December 17, 2013, they'll be celebrating Mega Man's 25th.

Oh, and one more thing. Isn't any game a gauge for continued interest in the series? Don't the units sold or downloaded (in the case of free games) of games factor into when a game is made in most instances? Yes, they said that this was to gauge interest, but that's no different from literally any other game out there. Yeah, it was the same thing as Legends 3, but I'm pretty sure that's even more indication of being blinded by Legends 3-related rage.

If the rest of the year goes well, I know my patience will have paid off in some form. But until then I won't be mad at Capcom; too much energy spent that can be better used elsewhere. I'll just be saddened, and waiting for them to find their way once again.

[The Great Gonzo]

1) Free. It doesn't cost us anything. Don't like it? You didn't spend money on it, that's okay.

Being free does not make something immune to criticism. Or in this case, immune to criticism over how it's being handled.

2) Video game. It's just a bunch of code combined to create an adventure starring our favorite blue hero. You're getting mad over a piece of code.

You're shaming people over the handling of a piece of code. It goes both ways, you know.

[Mirby]

I'm not tryin' to shame anyone. All I'm saying is that there's no need to be so hostile and furious over pretty much every single piece of news we get.

That'll be the last I say on this; otherwise we're gonna wind up going in circles.

[Protoman Blues]

All I see in this thread now is RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (somewhat funny considering PB's current avatar).

Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic, maybe a bit naive. But here's the thing: at the end of the day this is a free video game. That distinction is important for two things:

1) Free. It doesn't cost us anything. Don't like it? You didn't spend money on it, that's okay.

2) Video game. It's just a bunch of code combined to create an adventure starring our favorite blue hero. You're getting mad over a piece of code.

Here's another thing: it was Capcom of Japan who cancelled those games, who made X1 iOS and XOver, not Capcom of America. They've always been on our side. Always been doing what they can for the fans. When making SF2 HD ReMix, they got OCR (a fan community) to do the soundtrack. When Legends 3 was cancelled, they kept our Devroom open while Japan closed theirs, because they knew the fans would want it.

It was Capcom USA who took what SonicZH here offered and made it something official.

If you want to get mad, get mad at Capcom Japan, because all your reasons for anger were caused by them. But don't get mad at CoA; they are, for all intents and purposes, just a branch office of corporate. They held no responsibility for any of those things, and were just as surprised as we were.

Also, they're promising more news. I understand some may think the actions of the past year may be unforgivable, but they're not saying that SFxMM is it. There's more. They've been celebrating SF's 25th all year, and from next Monday until December 17, 2013, they'll be celebrating Mega Man's 25th.

Oh, and one more thing. Isn't any game a gauge for continued interest in the series? Don't the units sold or downloaded (in the case of free games) of games factor into when a game is made in most instances? Yes, they said that this was to gauge interest, but that's no different from literally any other game out there. Yeah, it was the same thing as Legends 3, but I'm pretty sure that's even more indication of being blinded by Legends 3-related rage.

If the rest of the year goes well, I know my patience will have paid off in some form. But until then I won't be mad at Capcom; too much energy spent that can be better used elsewhere. I'll just be saddened, and waiting for them to find their way once again.

How is a discussion rage? As for the two things:

1). Again, it shows Capcom's lack of effort.

2). A video game is still a product of a company that is making [acid burst] poor business decisions. Those decisions are what people are mad about, not so much the game.

Never said CoA was to blame. I've stated multiple times in the past that it's sad they're getting the majority of the flack. I had a nice "con" relationship with S-Kill. We had some nice conversations. My "[tornado fang]ing stupidity" comments are directed at CoJ, since they're really the only Capcom that matters.

Yes, I hope they make some awesome announcements on the 17th as well. They kinda have to.

And as for any game a gauge for continued interest in the series, I've already stated why this one doesn't matter. Sold is different than it being downloaded for free. Sold makes money. Downloaded does not. Earning a profit is what matters the most. The fact that MegaMan games have not earned a profit is the problem. Free games are not the answer.

Finally, if you don't get mad at Capcom for their [tornado fang] ups, that's your prerogative. But telling other customers not to be angry at their [parasitic bomb] is pointless.

[Treleus]

Let's be clear on one thing: no one is saying that a game like SF x MM is the future of Mega Man. The only reason I'm saying it's special is because it is Capcom officially endorsing a fangame. That's fantastic, and it'd be great to see more of that. Xover's not the future either, because it's a free low-budget iPhone game. Nobody said free games were the answer. "Free" is a marketing tool, and in some cases, it's the difference between the success or failure of a venture, because it's attractive. It's only the beginning of the anniversary.

You might say that there's no need to get people's "foot into the door" with Mega Man, but look at it this way: it's an olive branch to Mega Man fans who've felt let down by Capcom, and an attractive offer to anyone who likes Mega Man and/or Street Fighter. Yes, it's not better than a quality game that Capcom themselves would've put some muscle behind, but that isn't to say this is all we're ever going to get. It's a momentary opportunity for Capcom, as well as a mutual benefit between them and SonicZH. This is what I meant by using unmet expectations against legitimately good news: SF x MM isn't the future, but it is a great opportunity and a nice first step. Should we expect better from Capcom on their part? Yes, but then we also shouldn't expect Capcom to officially endorse a fangame, and yet here we are.

[Protoman Blues]

Let's be clear on one thing: no one is saying that a game like SF x MM is the future of Mega Man. The only reason I'm saying it's special is because it is Capcom officially endorsing a fangame. That's fantastic, and it'd be great to see more of that. Xover's not the future either, because it's a free low-budget iPhone game. Nobody said free games were the answer. "Free" is a marketing tool, and in some cases, it's the difference between the success or failure of a venture, because it's attractive. It's only the beginning of the anniversary.

You might say that there's no need to get people's "foot into the door" with Mega Man, but look at it this way: it's an olive branch to Mega Man fans who've felt let down by Capcom, and an attractive offer to anyone who likes Mega Man and/or Street Fighter. Yes, it's not better than a quality game that Capcom themselves would've put some muscle behind, but that isn't to say this is all we're ever going to get. It's a momentary opportunity for Capcom, as well as a mutual benefit between them and SonicZH. This is what I meant by using unmet expectations against legitimately good news: SF x MM isn't the future, but it is a great opportunity and a nice first step. Should we expect better from Capcom on their part? Yes, but then we also shouldn't expect Capcom to officially endorse a fangame, and yet here we are.

Actually, that's not clear at all. Capcom is saying it's the future when it says stupid [parasitic bomb] like "We'll be using this as one of many means of gauging where we're going." That's the mistake. That's why Capcom are absolute morons. As I've stated before, this will not work towards marketing because marketing requires the promise of profit, whether buying or selling stuff. It works in some areas, like say handing out free samples of food at a Costco. I would have called this game a free sample of food instead of a free t-shirt, but the problem is that the sample has to taste the same if I want to purchase the product in the future. I'll eat anything for free and if it tastes really good then I'll go out and buy it. But it still has to taste the same. People will play/download these games for free because free is free. However, not enough fans would actually purchase these type of games for them to net a profit for Capcom. This is why free games like this and FallOver are worthless towards marketing. Cave Story is a much better example of a free sample of food. It tasted good and people went out to buy it. It still tasted the same though. Therefore, if SF vs. MM and XOver are being used to gauge fan interest (ie; free samples of food), it means that the future product that they actually plan on selling to us is going to taste the same, and it cannot nor should not!

This game is what it is; a free to play fangame that Capcom decided to fund. It's awesome to have a company do that. Is it an effort to reach out to the fanbase it pissed off? Perhaps it is. Although if what Mirby stated is correct, this is from CoA, not CoJ. CoA has always been good with the fans. They weren't the Capcom that let us down. So an olive branch from them doesn't mean much, as awesome as it is. My point throughout all of this is to try and explain why fans have a right to be pissed with Capcom, even over [parasitic bomb] like this. As I've stated, I do not think people are pissed that they've endorsed this fangame or at the game itself. The game looks like a ton o' fun and it's awesome that Capcom endorsed it. The issue is that Capcom continues to make incredibly stupid PR decisions even with something as simple as this fangame. This should be viewed simply as a friendly gesture by Capcom, and a pretty awesome one at that.

[Sakura Leic]

I would have had a long post with a whole bunch of numbers and statistics but it was way too long, I was digging myself a hole, and really it could be simplified with a few questions.  

What are Capcom's "expectations"?   Why do they feel they need to "gauge interest" with an old franchise instead of something new?  And as a third party company who are they trying to compete with because I get the feeling they're trying to compete with someone rather than concentrate on profits, but I could be dead wrong on this and if I am it's my bad.
 
I'm sorry if these questions have been answered before but I just want to understand this a bit better because, like PB, I don't think it really makes any business sense.

[Treleus]

With regard to paragraph #1, I see where you're going with the free sample analogy, but I don't agree that's how things will turn out. Capcom should know that by now after Mega Man 9 & 10, but maybe this will push them to do it one more time, like with Mega Man 11 or something. The future might prove me wrong, but I think the example that SF x MM sets is not just a good 8-bit Mega Man game, but at most a precedent for collaboration with fans, or at least making the most out of a rare opportunity. Capcom wasn't looking out for something like this. It just fell into their laps. I don't think it's bad that they want to use this as a gauge because I think they'll need whatever they can get to sell CoJ on more Mega Man. That seems to be what Sven was getting at, but maybe he should have just kept his mouth shut.

For paragraph #2, I don't think the grand majority of Mega Man fans distinguish between CoJ and CoA. The perception is probably "Capcom is Capcom", because most people keep referring to them not as Capcom of Japan, but just as Capcom. That's a pretty flagrant communication failure, but most people don't seem to realize it. So the olive branch would still work as if it were from CoJ, especially considering they OK'd it.

Don't get me wrong, they're still a horrible company. Capcom of Japan is not cool in my book for hiring terrible managers and crushing our dreams, and I have no reason not to believe that every bad thing Inafune said about them is true. However, there have been and still are great people making games for us there, like Ono, DLC and other business bullshit aside. CoA is not the only group on our side, so we should stick up for them too.

But yeah, we agree that CoJ is a pretty shitty company that needs to change, but they have their reasons for not plunging into Mega Man right now about: they've been doing it year-after-year for roughly 15 years, they're not making great ROIs, and they need to stop and regroup. In the meantime, I expect a mixture of bumbling business bullshit and thoughtful, albeit ill-timed gestures.

[Joseph Collins]

... can I get a recap, please?  I seriously don't wanna read two pages full of walls of text.  DX

[Yllisos Zanon]

I'm with Joseph Collins on this, I would rather talk about the actual game, then get an eye sore.  Not trying to be mean, but I do want to talk about the actual game. 

Who do you think will be as the final level bosses?  Any guessers, who the main villian might be?

[Joseph Collins]

Sig-u-maaaaaaaaaa!!!  *shakes fist*

Or M. Bison.  Or M. Bison then Gouki.  I dunno.  Anything's possible with fan games.  Literally, anything!

Edit: Wait.  Wait.  What's the name of that one Japanese guy?  The one that dresses in Ken's outfit for promotional purposes? (Like when he went after the Tekken head honcho in a series of silly, but totally awesome competitive games.)  I bet it's that guy.

[Mirby]

The final boss is actually...

...

Red Arremer.

[Mr. Haxwell]

I think the final boss will be, Seth.

[Treleus]

TL;DR:

But yeah, we agree that CoJ is a pretty shitty company that needs to change, but they have their reasons for not plunging into Mega Man right now about: they've been doing it year-after-year for roughly 15 years, they're not making great ROIs, and they need to stop and regroup. In the meantime, I expect a mixture of bumbling business bullshit and thoughtful, albeit ill-timed gestures.

Back to game

---

Yeah, I was thinking Seth would be the most appropriate boss. He's basically the same as Mega Man, so that could be a pretty awesome fight. Or pre-fight.

[Joseph Collins]

The final boss is actually...

...

Red Arremer.

Yes.  Very yes.  @_@  I don't care if it doesn't make sense.  That would be absolutely awesome!

[OBJECTION MAN]

I think the final boss will be, Seth.

With Sigma's eye paint?

[Mr. Haxwell]

With Sigma's eye paint?

Oh yeah, I'd love to see that happen.

[Yllisos Zanon]

I can see Zangief, as a fortress boss.  Plus, I agree with the Seth answer.  Makes perfect sense to me.

I was also thinking, this game could have a story mode and a Vs mode.  So players can actually fight each other. 

[HokutoNoBen]

Yes, I hope they make some awesome announcements on the 17th as well. They kinda have to.

Sup, Blues and RPM. Been a while, hasn't it?

Yeah, I agree they do. But I believe S-Kill and Sven already told us months ago to "keep our expectations" in check. So with that said, I would say the smarter tip is to not expect much at this particular event. Though I'd certainly love to actually be surprised...

But perhaps that we'll see dotted events through months ahead. Though if Capcom wants to have surprises unveiled at Japanese events like World Hobby Fair, you can only hope that these are already in motion.