Topic: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)

[The Great Gonzo]

MMOCW/MMXOCW may be primarilly art books, but there's still a *LOT* of behind-the-scenes info regarding developer intentions and design inspiration.  Also some character descriptions that clarify previously ambiguous/unclear points, including specifying that Iris had the hots for Zero during Erasure (previous translations stated that in the context of saving her life, thus implying their relationship as new to the Repliforce War; this is not actually the case).

I was talking about other info in books that haven't been completely translated yet. Yes, R20 has a lot, but I don't think it has everything.

We've established, when you previously granted genuine translation errors, that Xtreme2 does not take place in a bathroom, correct?  In what way is the Reploid Research Lavatory more difficult to reference than any legitimate setting?

Already ruled out "especially bad typo"?


As long as we're talking about/mentioning "bad" translations: Someone cited this translation of the RnF CD database in an almost-argument about Quint. Please note that it was posted on GameFAQs on Oct. 16, 2002, before the release of GBA MMnB:

CD #066

?????? Quint

A robot Dr. Wily made from the future. His weapon is the Sakugarne.

"Your life ends here!"

Good Point: Can predict and see the future
Bad Point: Extremely punctual and easily confused when falls of his time routine
Likes: Digging holes for traps
Dislikes: Time Paradox

[translated by Mega Boy]

Call me Ms. Cynical, but I think he made that up. >.>

In this fandom, fan translations are supposed to be the "definitive" version, right? I wouldn't really care about that example up there, but I think the translator was implying that this list is totally faithful to the original. Someone care to check? I can't verify it myself, being unable to read Japanese, but some of those other entries seem a bit dodgy.

[Gatuca]

can we PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAASE Go Back on Topic?

its kinda disrespectful that people does this much of Off topic specially when it goes on and on.......

[Flame]

this is the fate of ALL RPM topics.
spontaneous derailment.

ESPECIALLY when someone mentions the word canon/continuity.

Or Legends.

[Solar]

In RPM off-topic is on topic. Always. Anyone that's been here for a while should know that already.

[Turian]

According to MM network:

"Keiji Inafune has announced on his own blog that, unlike other Mega Man games of recent times, he is fully in charge of the concept and design of Mega Man Universe. He believes it is a Mega Man game that captures the taste of Mega Man nostalgia, and expects it to be enjoyed by Mega Man fans all over the world. He also considers it as “everyone’s Mega Man."

[Flame]

"everyone's megaman"
Wonder what that could mean.

[Zan]

Call me Ms. Cynical, but I think he made that up. >.>

Looks like he did, considering the actual Japanese text clearly reads "Rockman".

In this fandom, fan translations are supposed to be the "definitive" version, right?

No, "accurate" translations are what's definitive. Regardless of whether they're produced by fans or Capcom. Notice that nobody is complaining about the parts of the game script that are accurately translated. Case in point, there's preciously little complaining about the localization of ZERO and ZX, aside from voice acting.

the infamous Laguz Island bathroom of evil.

I'm also reminded of that strange story in Xtreme2's manual.

-Alia's last line in the Zeroless X6 ending was tweaked a bit to be more suggestive as to her having an attachment to X.

That and they dropped the mention of Isoc's force field actually protecting Zero.

[Flame]

Not to mention the mis-naming of Berkana, Garreth, and Iris as "Belkana", "Garres" and "Aillis" respectively.

Since I couldnt find the manual story online, I took the liberty of typing it out.
[spoiler]In a high security government research facility, a mysterious incident caught the attention of the world. All the computerized reploid researchers had suddenly stopped functioning!

When the reploids were examined, scientists discovered that all their programs had been deleted. Despite powerfull security programs, they had been wiped clean of all operating data. Even the security programs were gone.

This disaster was called "Erase" and created panic throughout the scientific research community. Scientists immediately started planning their countermeasures.

Within a few days, another massive "Erasure" incident occurred on an isolated research island. An investigation team was immediately sent to the island.. There they discovered a small army of "irregular" reploids, who had already been defeated in the past.

A new type of DNA chip was found on one of the irregular reploids. The chip contained DNA data duplicated from irregular reploids in the past. Investigators sspected that it was used to revive them.

Someone developed this new chip, which extracts DNA data from reploids and reproduces it. It also contains a program that produces a sigma virus and then erases itself. This dreadful chip is called "DNA Soul."

Now, Mega Man X and Zero receive an order to defeat the irregulars on the island and collect all the DNA Soul!

Who hacked into the mother computer?
What is this invisible enemy's goal?

Once again, X readies for battle, repeatedly asking himself if fighting is the only way to preserve world peace ...[/spoiler]

personally, I lol at the very random reference to the mother computer just thrown in there.

[Bueno Excelente]

"everyone's megaman"
Wonder what that could mean.

Let's hope it means that it evolves along the necessary terms, while keeping to its roots. Meaning that any who are new to the franchise might start playing it without a problem.

[Zan]

Let's hope it means that it evolves along the necessary terms, while keeping to its roots.

Evolution requires sacrifice. *Presses button.*

[The Great Gonzo]

No, "accurate" translations are what's definitive. Regardless of whether they're produced by fans or Capcom. Notice that nobody is complaining about the parts of the game script that are accurately translated. Case in point, there's preciously little complaining about the localization of ZERO and ZX, aside from voice acting.

D'oh.

I do remember reading that back in the "old days", many fan translations weren't quite accurate, but were accepted as such anyway, leading to large amounts of fanon being mistaken for canon. That's one reason why the X series is (allegedly) such a nightmare to sort out.

[HokutoNoBen]

According to MM network:

"Keiji Inafune has announced on his own blog that, unlike other Mega Man games of recent times, he is fully in charge of the concept and design of Mega Man Universe. He believes it is a Mega Man game that captures the taste of Mega Man nostalgia, and expects it to be enjoyed by Mega Man fans all over the world. He also considers it as “everyone’s Mega Man."

Makes sense. This is very likely the title he teased about being "excited and very pleased to be working on" back at Captivate. It's not everyday that a guy in his position (Head of Capcom's R&D) gets to be so involved in any one project so in-depth. I presume this is also what he was referring to when he said he "wanted to do something new with Rockman" back last December too...

[Flame]

D'oh.

I do remember reading that back in the "old days", many fan translations weren't quite accurate, but were accepted as such anyway, leading to large amounts of fanon being mistaken for canon. That's one reason why the X series is (allegedly) such a nightmare to sort out.

well maybe back then. But with all the info available to us today, its really not that hard to sort out. whats hard, is
A. trying to fill the gaps in parts of the story than have not yet been explained, (sort of like what we did with the Virus in relation to Zero and the X4 flashback before Capcom actually stated the Virus as a subspecies of Roboenza, and made to control Zero)
and
B. trying to get fans to know the actual story, and discard their fanon ideas. (and crack through the skulls of hardheads like that one from a while back who claimed everything outside the games was fanservice and not canon)

[Gaia]

this is the fate of ALL RPM topics.
spontaneous derailment.

ESPECIALLY when someone mentions the word canon/continuity.

Or Legends.

When this happens, half of the fourm (three members total) go batshit insane~

[Blackhook]

My topics never got derailed...as far as I know

[Zan]

I do remember reading that back in the "old days", many fan translations weren't quite accurate, but were accepted as such anyway, leading to large amounts of fanon being mistaken for canon. That's one reason why the X series is (allegedly) such a nightmare to sort out.

I don't remember anything of the sort, fan translations never really 'added' to the confusion that is the X-series. That series is first and foremost hard to decipher because of the way Capcom of Japan made it, secondly because of the way Capcom of America localized it.

The only thing that remotely close to fan translations altering the perception of the X-series would be the matter of Three Keys from RZOCW. Which wasn't so much a matter of translation, as it was interpretation. The literal translation we have courtesy of MarshmallowMan is as is the best reference we have for that text, because as a matter of fact, Udon's localizer also that messed up that text by trying to apply his own interpretation, born from the fan debates at that time. It wouldn't be until years later, with fan translation of the ZERO-collection official site, that new information revealed to the fans the true intent behind some of what's written in Three Keys.

[The Great Gonzo]

I don't remember anything of the sort,

Eh, I had to take the article's word for it; I wasn't in the fandom back then.

fan translations never really 'added' to the confusion that is the X-series. That series is first and foremost hard to decipher because of the way Capcom of Japan made it, secondly because of the way Capcom of America localized it.

Surely, fanon helped to complicate the matter further, right?

It may just be my crappy memory, but I don't think I've heard anything about that "Three Keys" bit; what was the Udon translator's interpretation?

[Align]

Capcom actually stated the Virus as a subspecies of Roboenza

I don't remember that part...

[Zan]

I don't remember that part...

Get equipped with the Zero-collection official site timeline.

It may just be my crappy memory, but I don't think I've heard anything about that "Three Keys" bit; what was the Udon translator's interpretation?

Marshmallowman's translation:
Sigma Virus
The dreadful Sigma Virus that transforms Repliroid to Irregular.
The true form of which, was a suffering circuit Right inserted into X during the time of his creation.
A Repliroid which possesses a suffering circuit,
in regards to a society where humans and Repliroids coexist,
so as to be biased towards neither side,
it is fated always to worry continuously as to which side it should stand upon.
Zero was the first Repliroid to be infected with the Sigma Virus but
Zero which was developed by Wily to be a completely evil Repliroid,
despite being infected by Sigma Virus isn't transformed into an Irregular, [instead]
was reborn as a good Repliroid.
But,
as Zero bustled about for the sake of fulfilling his missions as an Irregular Hunter
the Sigma virus lying dormant within his own body was scattered throughout the world
inviting an ironic result.
And so Zero, having become carrier of the Sigma Virus, was admitted to the research facility.

***

Udon's localization:
Sigma Virus
The terrifying virus that causes a Reploid to go Maverick.  The virus actually originated from one of the circuits that Dr. Light installed in X's brain.  The circuits function was to keep X neutral and unbiased in matters concerning humans and Reploids.  Tragically, the very same circuit condemned X to a life plagued by the philosophical question that weighed the value of humans against that of Reploids - a question to which there was no answer.  Zero was the first Reploid to be infected by the virus, but as an android created solely for evil, destructive purposes by Dr. Wily, the virus affected him uniquely.  Instead of going Maverick, the virus turned Zero into a warrior driven by goodness, not evil.  Unfortunately, by tirelessly fulfilling his destiny as a Maverick Hunter, Zero inadvertently spread the virus throughout the world.  Eventually, as the host of the virus, Zero was taken to a research facility for study.

***

Key differences exist in the beginning; Udon's localizer added details to the circuit - virus relationship that's not at all explained within the original text. After which, explaining the regular function of said circuit in Reploids, Udon removes the mention of Reploids in general, replacing it with just X.

Udon's interpretation of the circuit - virus relationship was eventually proven wrong by the ZERO-collection official site. The latter half, concerning Zero becoming good by the virus, was proven by that same site, but prior to that was not as unambiguous as Udon makes it out to be; without the additional explanations given, it seemingly went against all established fact.

[Hypershell]

As Gonzo is unfamiliar with the Three Keys, Zan, you should probably point out that Three Keys carried the caution that it was concept info and may not be canonical (Udon allegedly chose a more definitive translation figuring that the disclaimer would be enough).  Zero-series concept includes such things as the original X being the villain, so while Three Keys offered some valuable developer insight, it was NEVER meant to be taken without a shaker of salt in either region.

The developer interviews further reiterate the Dark Elf backstory in particular, which is part of Three Keys, as having changed over the course of development (see Aizu's commentary on page 169).

[The Great Gonzo]

I dunno, the original text about the virus turning Zero good seems to go against established fact, too. They both imply a canceling out of evil, I think. Then again, I could be (and probably am) wrong.

As Gonzo is unfamiliar with the Three Keys, Zan, you should probably point out that Three Keys carried the caution that it was concept info and may not be canonical (Udon allegedly chose a more definitive translation figuring that the disclaimer would be enough).  Zero-series concept includes such things as the original X being the villain, so while Three Keys offered some valuable developer insight, it was NEVER meant to be taken without a shaker of salt in either region.

Ah, good to know.

[Zan]

As Gonzo is unfamiliar with the Three Keys, Zan, you should probably point out that Three Keys carried the caution that it was concept info and may not be canonical (Udon allegedly chose a more definitive translation figuring that the disclaimer would be enough).  Zero-series concept includes such things as the original X being the villain, so while Three Keys offered some valuable developer insight, it was NEVER meant to be taken without a shaker of salt in either region.

Despite the disclaimer, a good 70% or so has been confirmed outside of Three Keys, though.

I dunno, the original text about the virus turning Zero good seems to go against established fact, too. They both imply a canceling out of evil, I think. Then again, I could be (and probably am) wrong.

Before 2010, this would be the case. Then we got this info:


    At least 200 years ago
    The birth of X
    When an incident occurred where an unknown computer virus came from space and causes robots to become violent and riotous, Dr. Light completed the battle robot “X” worrying about the future of Earth. Hypothesizing X could battle robots infected by viruses, he gave X the perfect virus counter-measure. Meanwhile Dr. Light developed a great number of armors, but this presented the possibility of X becoming a threat to mankind. To confirm the safety of X’s cognition program, Dr. Light sealed away X in an analysis capsule.

    1XX years ago
    The birth of Zero
    Zero was produced by Dr. Wily, who schemed at taking over the world. But he contained a flaw in his cognitive program that made him violent and unwilling to obey instructions, so Dr. Wily himself sealed Zero in a capsule.

    1XX years ago
    The Sigma Virus outbreak
    A subspecies of the terrible computer virus from long ago is generated, and begins driving robots mad locally. The human leadership acknowledges these infected robots as Mavericks, and orders them to be disposed of. The source was found to be an unknown computer virus that had prevailed over 100 years ago emerging from the capsule Zero slumbered in. Later, this virus was named the Sigma Virus, after the Reploid “Sigma” who led a revolt against the human leadership.

    1XX years ago
    Zero awakens
    Receiving information of Zero awakening from his capsule and causing violence, the Maverick Hunter Sigma finds and intercepts him. during this incident, Sigma is infected by the unknown computer virus leaking out from Zero’s capsule, but at the same time Zero, having his armor damaged in the battle with Sigma, also becomes infected with the virus. Due to this, Zero’s personality completely changed, and he would turn to working as a Maverick Hunter.

[The Great Gonzo]

but at the same time Zero, having his armor damaged in the battle with Sigma, also becomes infected with the virus.

That makes it sound like the best way to combat the virus is to never put on or touch another piece of armour ever. Not that it would help Sigma.

[Hypershell]

I dunno, the original text about the virus turning Zero good seems to go against established fact, too. They both imply a canceling out of evil, I think. Then again, I could be (and probably am) wrong.

The Zero Collection timeline, which incidentally has since been pulled from the internet, states that the virus was created to curb Zero's aggressive tendencies.  Zero in his original state was so out-of-control violent that he would not respond to any orders, Wily's or otherwise.

The virus turning Zero good is a Three Keys point which I adamantly contested because it is seemingly contradictory to X5, undoing its own effects.  But if you look at the virus's effect on Zero as not a matter of good/evil but as a matter of dampening Zero's emotions, then it makes sense.  You have the out of control X4 flashback, the balanced Hunter we know and love, and the apathetic Awakened Zero.

because as a matter of fact, Udon's localizer also that messed up that text by trying to apply his own interpretation, born from the fan debates at that time.

To be fair, and give credit where it's due, Udon's localizers were the LEAST of the fan's concerns regarding Three Keys misconceptions.  Fans jumped to conclusions with early impressions of the Three Keys leading to the nonsense of "Light created the virus", which made its way into a few gaming websites (for that matter so did the notion of post-X5 games being non-canonical, which the Zero Collection timeline directly refutes).

If anything, Udon mentioning only X and not Reploids in general in a way makes the Keys less specific, not more.  They're basically not touching the issue of how well the "Suffering Circuit" was copied to other Reploids.  Other than that I don't see any issues with the segments you copied.

Posted on: July 20, 2010, 06:30:51 PM

Despite the disclaimer, a good 70% or so has been confirmed outside of Three Keys, though.

True as that may be, it does not excuse globalizing the validity of the facts contained within.  Aizu's own words directly state that Dark Elf's origins, more specifically the functions of her transformation to Dark Elf as stated in Three Keys, are invalid.  So the Three Keys contains both confirmed valid and confirmed invalid information.

Three Keys:
"Unfortunately, Mother Elf was overwhelmed by the effects of the Sigma Virus used to make her, which caused her to become Dark Elf and set the Elf Wars into motion."

Aizu:
"Originally, it was understood that Mother Elf was created using some properties of the Sigma Virus as a Cyber-elf with the ability to control Reploids, but some of the negative properties of the Sigma Virus were also transferred during the process, resulting in Dark Elf.  We ended up changing a couple of those details."

[Zan]

which incidentally CoJ has since pulled from the internet

But is still referenced partially within their character profiles...

By the way, ever notice Capcom of America made their own version of that site?
http://megaman.capcom.com/mmzc/

I get the impression they either directly swiped Marshmallow's RTRZ translations for their big four profiles, or went to MegaMan Network.

Fans jumped to conclusions with early impressions of the Three Keys leading to the nonsense of "Light created the virus"

Udon didn't quite help to let that nonsense conclusion die in a fire.

which made its way into a few gaming websites (for that matter so did the notion of post-X5 games being non-canonical, which the Zero Collection timeline directly refutes).

Just X6... And you know how gaming sites are. Or even gaming magazines for that matter. Aarf!

They're basically not touching the issue of how well the "Suffering Circuit" was copied to other Reploids.

The original doesn't either; but it at least mentions its existence in Repliroids. Which is somehow related to the point of calling Zero an evil Repliroid within the same text.