Topic: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (Wii, PS3, 360, iPhone)

[HokutoNoBen]

How great would it be if this entire game, right down to the name and the flaws, was carefully planned out by Sega in advance just to troll the fanbase?

After the masterful levels of trolling that were OBVIOUSLY in place for the likes of "Black Knight"? Should there really be any doubt?

Sonic really could benefit from a Sega AM2 style TLC and work ethic. A pity that's probably as far from the realm of possibility as could be expected.

I mean, SERIOUSLY though. How can the same company that provides sweet nectar like RGG/Yakuza, Valkyria Chronicles, Virtua Fighter and making deals with P* on one hand, be content to shovel out Sonic crap with the other? How can such a company be so lopsided...?  

[Jericho]

After the masterful levels of trolling that were OBVIOUSLY in place for the likes of "Black Knight"? Should there really be any doubt?

Sonic really could benefit from a Sega AM2 style TLC and work ethic. A pity that's probably as far from the realm of possibility as could be expected.

I mean, SERIOUSLY though. How can the same company that provides sweet nectar like RGG/Yakuza, Valkyria Chronicles, Virtua Fighter and making deals with P* on one hand, be content to shovel out Sonic crap with the other? How can such a company be so lopsided...?  

I saw the mismanagement writing on the wall with the death of Smilebit.

[Protoman Blues]

It's funny you should bring up 9.  Because, even though I like MM9, I do see a certain correlation between (some of) what I dislike about 9 and what direction STH4 is seemingly taking (unless Sega is saving a few bombshells for us, anyway).

Namely, that there is such a thing as going TOO basic in the attempt to "go back to roots".  9 disables the slide unless you're ProtoMan (double damage/knockback).  Not my favorite design choice.  Whereas the NES era encompasses 6 titles with a massive variety to them 9 and 10 are very clearly derived from the first two, and unlike games such as New Super Mario Bros., virtually discard the advancements that the sequels made.  Most of the "new age" stuff they tried to do for 9 didn't turn out so well (shop is horrid), besides the new game modes like Endless Attack.

Well, in regards to what you mentioned, to each their own, but the idea behind it, the nostalgia factor, was what I was getting at more than anything else.  

[Mirby]

I'm just saying that the name is a marketing ploy and the NSMB formula (2.5D, new stages, modern moves, classic gameplay) would be perfect. All it needs is a signpost at the end. If there's a frickin' goal ring, Imma gonna be pissed UNLESS it frickin' is floating in the air and leads to the special stage, and is near the signpost.

[Flame]

@Flame: Is it not possible this is a pre-release build? One that hasn't have everything tweaked to perfection? If it is, of course the jump is bad; they haven't perfected it yet!

Sega? Sonic? Perfection? DOES NOT COMPUTE.

that settled, Im complaining, but I WILL giv ethe game a chance, and despite it's flaws, will probably like it just like all the other "hated" sonic games out there. (Except Black Knight. that is a trollery on Sega's part. Hell, it makes Shadow's game look almost ideal in comparison.)

Thats just the thing though. Its a marketing ploy.
A bad Idea too, since for the sake of argument, considering they DO [tornado fang] this game up, will cause their Sonic fanbase to never trust them again. And it will seal the fate that we all see coming, of there NEVER being a Sonic game without fuckups.

Marketing ploy or not, it is a pretty ballsy move to name it Sonic 4, with all the expectations that come with that. Mainly, Playable Super Sonic, which fans have clamored for ever since the Adventure games.(and which Sega keeps failing to deliver on) And the fact that they are handing it to the folks who made the Advanced Games and Rush, the hope that this will be even remotely near what a Sonic 4 should be, dont get much better, since now, we know it will more likely just be another Advanced or Rush game.

Now, before you bite my head off for BAAAAWW, like I said above. I have mixed expectations for this game. However, I  am not condemning it already...

[Irgendein]

(Except Black Knight. that is a trollery on Sega's part. Hell, it makes Shadow's game look almost ideal in comparison.)

You know, sometime back I played a bit of Black Knight at a friends' place.

I didn't mind it.

Also, in regards to Sonic 4: I'd like to give it a try when it comes out

[Mirby]

Well, Flame, at least you'll try it.

[Protoman Blues]

I'm just saying that the name is a marketing ploy

...that's the point that myself, Shell, and Ben were trying to get across.  It's not so much the game itself that's the problem......yet.  It's more so the marketing ploy itself.  Like Shell said, they are clearly marketing this game to be a direct sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles, and IF, the key word here, IF it does not deliver, people are going to be pissed.  You just have to look at the iPad debacle as a perfect example of how pissed people can get when a company does not deliver on their marketing promises.  

Also, for the record, I actually had fun with Black Knight. 

[Flame]

Well, Flame, at least you'll try it.

You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun. Sonic 06 is very flawed, but that does not mean it isnt fun. I love it. and I aknowledge that it had issues.

X7. It WAS fun, and I like that, but I admit also, that it was way too linear, and could have been FAR better.

However, I see folks who go, RAAAAAAGGGEEE!- SONIC 06 IS TEH WURST SONIC GAME EVVAAAAARRRR! ITS PUTRID I VOMIT AT IT!

Similar for ShTHH, Unleashed, X6,etc.

[Mirby]

Then I respect you even more. Maybe it's your willingness to try something that may suck, or maybe it's that pic you drew for me once. I'm not sure...

[Protoman Blues]

You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun. Sonic 06 is very flawed, but that does not mean it isnt fun. I love it. and I aknowledge that it had issues.

It depends on the flaws.  Many movies have flaws, but it can still wind up being a fun movie.  However, the flaws can be SO bad that it ruins the whole experience, like Indy 4.

[Flame]

It depends on the flaws.  Many movies have flaws, but it can still wind up being a fun movie.  However, the flaws can be SO bad that it ruins the whole experience, like Indy 4.

I guess in that case it depends on the person, and how that flaw feels to them, Mr. I-refuse-to-play-X7-because-of-Unlockable-X.

[Irgendein]

the flaws can be SO bad that it ruins the whole experience, like Indy 4.

I liked Indy 4

[Protoman Blues]

I guess in that case it depends on the person, and how that flaw feels to them, Mr. I-refuse-to-play-X7-because-of-Unlockable-X.

Exactly.  So your whole concept of a flawed game being fun depends entirely on the person playing it, not the flawed game itself.

I liked Indy 4

The only movie I hated more than Indy 4 that year was Repo: The Genetic Opera.  However, it tied with Hancock for worst "mainstream" movie of the year for me.

[Flame]

Exactly.  So your whole concept of a flawed game being fun depends entirely on the person playing it, not the flawed game itself.

Yes, however, my point is that too many people are quick to dismiss a flawed game without trying to find it's redeeming points. A flawed game can also be fun.

In fact, many bashers then create the opinion that people who might have never played that particular game take on. Ill admit, Since everyone was bashing 06 back in the day, I kind of started too. After reading up on its mess ups. But, given the chance at a 360, (and seeing some gameplay footage) I DID want to try it despite what I thought of it.

I quickly changed my tune and I like the game now.

[Alice in Entropy]

Hancock

I liked Hancock! D=

[Protoman Blues]

Yes, however, my point is that too many people are quick to dismiss a flawed game without trying to find it's redeeming points. A flawed game can also be fun.

In fact, many bashers then create the opinion that people who might have never played that particular game take on. Ill admit, Since everyone was bashing 06 back in the day, I kind of started too. After reading up on its mess ups. But, given the chance at a 360, (and seeing some gameplay footage) I DID want to try it despite what I thought of it.

I quickly changed my tune and I like the game now.

Your entire point is invalid because a game flaws can be viewed differently by different individuals.  

Take Phantom Hourglass, for example.  Some people, like myself, loved the controls, whereas others absolutely hated it.  Same with Sonic '06.  Some people liked the controls whereas others hated it.  It's entirely based upon the individual playing it. 

I liked Hancock! D=

To each their own.

[Mirby]

Your entire point is invalid because a game flaws can be viewed differently by different individuals. 

Take Phantom Hourglass, for example.  Some people, like myself, loved the controls, whereas others absolutely hated it.  Same with Sonic '06.  Some people liked the controls whereas others hated it.  It's entirely based upon the individual playing it. 
...
To each their own.

^ This.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and they all stink.

[Bag of Magic Food]

To each their own.

No, stop giving each their own!  I don't want my own!

[AquaTeamV3]

Honestly, I'm not a hard guy to please, but I agree that naming it "Sonic 4" kind of has me paranoid of it not living up to it's prequels.  I haven't really played any Sonic games that were downright horrible; Shadow the Hedgehog and Heroes were the most recent (console) Sonic games I've played, and the only real gripe I have with the games are the somewhat unforgiving level designs.  Heck, given the fact that I have a Wii now, I have half a mind to go pick up Sonic and the Black Knight; from what some of you guys are saying, it actually sounds pretty good!

You see, something that Ive seen many fans of anything, (sonic or Megaman, and not all of them, mind you- some-) cant seem to grasp, is the concept of a flawed game being fun.
...
X6,etc.

This.  I don't own X7, but from what I've played it didn't seem that bad.  Aside from the whole "unlock X" nonsense, the game's perfectly playable, flaws aside.  The reploid rescue thing was pretty messed up, though.

Also, I really don't see why people insist on giving X6 such harsh treatment.  People go into it expecting it to play like it's past incarnations, and in doing so set themselves up to be shot down.  A lot of gamers (Sonic fans especially)are simply closed-minded when they buy sequels, and it tends to shoot them in the foot.

[Flame]

My only gripe with Black knight is the ridiculous premise. (since ShTHH did swords too...)

[Hypershell]

It's pretty obvious that flawed games can be fun when you think about it:  Every game is flawed.  Somehow, someway, there's always SOMETHING that could have been done better.  It may be completely and totally insignificant, but it's always there.

And yeah, I've found even the likes of X7 fun.  I also find Shadow The Hedgehog a lot more fun than the average gamer.  And even Heroes, screwed up as it may be, has its moments.  And as Vix is well aware, I am the most dedicated/insane Godzilla Unleashed fan on this corner of the internet, in spite of obvious text/audio bugs and the occasional beam fight camera glitch.

I'll certainly follow STH4.  I'm not buying this "preview" mind you, because yes how well anything works is up to the individual player.  And who knows, if hell freezes over and they actually do a proper Tails and/or Super Sonic, I'll be on board.  But the fact is I'm cheaper with my Wii blocks than I am with my cash, and I still have BK and Unleashed to backtrack to (and even Advance 2, if I felt that ambitious).  So if STH4 is "just another" new Sonic, then there are other new Sonics for me to go to instead.

[Gotham Ranger]

...that's the point that myself, Shell, and Ben were trying to get across.  It's not so much the game itself that's the problem......yet.  It's more so the marketing ploy itself.   

See, I am actually terrified of the levels of rage that will froth from the mouths of the Sonic fandom when they realise Sega didn't name it Sonic 4 for them and to make a true sequel to S3&K, but because the name is so powerful that it brings Sega the one thing it wants most: Publicity. And there is no such thing as bad publicity.

The only movie I hated more than Indy 4 that year was Repo: The Genetic Opera.

Really? I'm actually genuinely curious as to what soured it for you.

[Police Girl]

Of course, it seems that decent Sonic games are getting slandered by Critics anyway, I mean, I found Shadow to be quite fun. Sure at times it felt incomplete (Being good does jack [parasitic bomb] to stop GUN from shooting you up. Same with being evil and Eggman's Robots/The Blackarm Aliens.) but it was still fun, it ended up getting really shitty reviews from places like Game Informer (4 being the main, 2 being the "Second Opinion".)

Then you look at Sonic Rush, the GI review was like an 8 or something, when Rush Adventure came out they complained that it was a sequel and gave it a 7. Now when they see Sonic 4, the little Sonic Fanboy inside them is going to pop out and start bitching. "Oh the graphics are too new but also bland", "I don't like the sound effects", "Why did they call this sonic 4 it should've been called sonics shitty adventure through dull-land", "This animation is annoying". Of course, these aren't my opinions. Mainly just a mean jab at Sonic "Fans" who [sonic slicer] at incessant little things.

I'm still avidly awaiting this game, I'm going to buy it regardless if reviews say its [parasitic bomb]. (Even though Secret Rings was a little better recieved, that one didn't brush me so well. Black Knight was a lot more fun and a little easier in my opinion. I enjoyed the small bit I played.)

[Flame]

ShTHH also had the 4kids voices, the premise of emo shadow with guns, aaaand aliens. I think it was mostly though, the 4kids VAs and the idea of weapons that soured it.

But then again, a better example is reviewers who gave the 360/PS3 Unleashed a low score, and then went and gave the Wii/PS2 version a higher score.