Metroid Discussion Thread

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Offline Flame

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Reply #775 on: September 08, 2010, 07:27:22 AM
Huh... lookit that... it doesn't... I didnt mess around with it anyway, so I didnt know.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline STM

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Reply #776 on: September 08, 2010, 08:46:00 AM
For the record, I didn't tear up at Adam's death because I was too busy laughing at how [parasitic bomb] the dialog was in that scene.

He has to keep reminding her she's going to be at full power soon. I mean, cool, yeah, he blew up a whole sector of invincible metroids, but the set up was so cheesed and terrible.

But so's almost every plot instance with this game. I blame that simply on Japanese writing being god awful.



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Reply #777 on: September 08, 2010, 11:42:47 AM
Heartless, huh?

I would have been sad... IF ADAM HAD ANY PERSONALITY UP TO THAT POINT IN THE GAME ANYWAY. He acts like Gendo [tornado fang]ing Ikari, always silent and telling you what to do all the way, and then in one single cutscene, dude pulls a 180º and acts all heroic, his tone of choice changes and everything basically is different. Jesus Christ, it's a forced "BE SAAAAAAD" scene if I ever saw one.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #778 on: September 08, 2010, 11:51:23 AM
I was touched.  I liked the scene.

*shrugs*



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Reply #779 on: September 08, 2010, 11:53:11 AM
Nothing wrong with liking it. It's still a friggin' Hollywood cliché, though.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #780 on: September 08, 2010, 11:54:16 AM
A cliche yes, but it's pretty well done.



Offline Flame

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Reply #781 on: September 08, 2010, 12:57:36 PM
[spoiler]Its more just those final moments when he walks off into sector Zero while Samus tries to stop him, witht he door locking behind him, that are really good. Then the "No objections, right Lady?" and her teary thumbs down- that are touching.[/spoiler]

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #782 on: September 08, 2010, 01:00:52 PM
What is well done about it? The fact that we had no idea of Adam's true personality until then? The fact that that thing came out of nowhere? The fact that they basically gave us a ton of details about a fantastic level and fantastic enemies only to tell us we're not allowed to fight them or even see them? The fact that it was a cheap off-screen death, which means he can be brought back easily anytime? Everything in that scene was textbook Hollywood cornyness better suited to the 70's and 80's, stuff that wouldn't go near any recent sci-fi flick with a ten foot pole. It's pretty much wacky japanese stuff, that they think appeals to the western mentality, but ends up being EXTREMELY stereotypical. And the narrative itself is disjoined and doesn't favor the game in any way.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #783 on: September 08, 2010, 08:10:47 PM
lol 'wacky japanese stuff'

hearing that always makes me laugh.

Now i'm itching to watch "Taste of Tea" once again~ (a japanese film btw.)



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Reply #784 on: September 08, 2010, 09:15:01 PM
lol 'wacky japanese stuff'

hearing that always makes me laugh.

Now i'm itching to watch "Taste of Tea" once again~ (a japanese film btw.)
Japanese films with typical japanese culture are great, mind you. When japanese are japanese, they're awesome. It's why I love games like Yakuza/Ryu Ga Gotoku, because they look japanese, they don't like pretty bishonen with colorful hair.

Nobody Knows continues to be the one movie in the whole world which I have made a promise never to watch again, because if I did, my sadness and cries would probably cause me to commit suicide or something. Japanese storytelling manages to be AMAZINGLY good when it's adapted from their own culture, not when it tries to be a stupid copy of 80's hollywood.



Offline Flame

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Reply #785 on: September 09, 2010, 01:15:12 AM
What is well done about it? The fact that we had no idea of Adam's true personality until then? The fact that that thing came out of nowhere? The fact that they basically gave us a ton of details about a fantastic level and fantastic enemies only to tell us we're not allowed to fight them or even see them? The fact that it was a cheap off-screen death, which means he can be brought back easily anytime? Everything in that scene was textbook Hollywood cornyness better suited to the 70's and 80's, stuff that wouldn't go near any recent sci-fi flick with a ten foot pole. It's pretty much wacky japanese stuff, that they think appeals to the western mentality, but ends up being EXTREMELY stereotypical. And the narrative itself is disjoined and doesn't favor the game in any way.
that WAS his personality. all business, no play. in both Fusion, this, and the manga.

off screen death maybe, but he cannot be revived post Fusion since Fusion established that he was the computer on samus ship whom reminded her of dead Adam. and if hes revived after that, then this game has nothing to do with that, since he was already dead prior to this game. Also, I dont think cloning Humans works in the Metroid Universe- at least- its never been done.

I dont know. I thought it was a sad scene. or at least- a very cool send off for him.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


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Reply #786 on: September 09, 2010, 01:30:47 AM
that WAS his personality. all business, no play. in both Fusion, this, and the manga.

off screen death maybe, but he cannot be revived post Fusion since Fusion established that he was the computer on samus ship whom reminded her of dead Adam. and if hes revived after that, then this game has nothing to do with that, since he was already dead prior to this game. Also, I dont think cloning Humans works in the Metroid Universe- at least- its never been done.

I dont know. I thought it was a sad scene. or at least- a very cool send off for him.
The AI could be based of his memory. They didn't just recover his body in space so they could dump the brain into a disk. Coulda just been a backup of his memory.



Offline Hypershell

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Reply #787 on: September 09, 2010, 02:17:36 AM
He's a general, his blood/brain being on file somewhere is no far stretch.  As Other M showed us you can barely sneeze in that outfit without somebody authorizing it.

"Samus: That perfect military mind... The wisdom of Adam Malkovich continued to serve even after death. Until today, I had no idea that the minds of leaders and scientists were frequently uploaded to computers. My incredible reunion with Adam may have saved the universe..."

So I was thinking of how Other M could be improved upon, short of just gutting the entire plot. I've got a few thoughts, so please feel free to set them ablaze.

[spoiler=Yeah, spoiler tags in case people still give a damn]

-Sector Zero as a playable area. They took a bit of time to build up the area to players and get them excited only to ultimately cockblock them. Samus should have been allowed to go into the area and encounter these so-called Invincible Metroids. Upon finding out that the computer MB that "Madeline" told her about was a hoax, Samus needs to escape the area or else she's caught in the explosion of the colony. At this point, the Invincible Metroids are swarming like mad, maybe throw in an Alpha or Beta stage version as a midboss at any time in this area before or during the escape.

-I'm not sure how Adam's death would occur, but it'd have to be in a way that keeps the GF clear, otherwise, Samus' involvement with them in Fusion would make less sense. Probably killed by "The Deleter" taking a bullet for Samus?

-Introduce the real Madeline Bergman earlier. It's clear with the whole explanation that she treated MB like a daughter that they wanted to build some emotional sympathy with the player. However, as it stands, this is a worthless thing to do three minutes before she's ultimately killed. There's no emotional attachment and it means absolutely nothing other than "that [sonic slicer] got [tornado fang]'d up." This would also work well if MB was actually fought, as now you have the added factor of Samus hesitating to finish her off (she already feels sympathetic to her after hearing Madeline's account.)


One other little thing I and probably others would have appreciated is missiles and super missiles in third person mode while keeping the side remote style. After examining the controller, I found missiles could have easily been set to B, which can be fired with the left middle finger. To use a super missile, you follow a mechanic similar to Metroid Prime where you charge up your beam. You tap B to fire a missile and, bam, super missile.
[/spoiler]
[spoiler=ZEE SPOILERZ!!]Adam's death I don't mind, but yeah, some encounter with an unfreezable Metroid would have been nice.  Drive home the point that MB was setting Samus up, and also make the fact that they are a setup for Adam's death less obvious.  Yeah, we know he has to buy it before Fusion, and they picked a good way for him to go, my full and sole gripe is being told why, rather than shown why.

Madeline, yeah.  As I said before, her being revealed after Queen Metroid makes it clear that they were just looking at the story and not at game pacing.  I don't expect to grow attached to Melissa, though.  Cheezy dialogue pretty much never comes unexpected to me, and besides, no matter what Madeline thinks of her, she's still based off of Mother Brain.  Samus may or may not believably hesitate to kill her, but trying to build player sympathy with her, I think, is a majorly uphill battle.[/spoiler]

Missiles I didn't mind in the least.  They're sniping weapons in this game, hence the lock-on.  Your added 3rd-person attack power role is filled by the close-range charge attacks.

Would I appreciate Missiles on the B button?  Absolutely not.  If 3rd person use were necessary, use Minus button (currently unoccupied) to switch attack modes.  The B button when held sideways is a last resort, poorly positioned and easily pressed by mistake when your attention is off of it (MM10 suffers SEVERELY for this).  It should never be used for anything potentially detrimental, and if it must be used, is best suited to "hold" mechanics so that accidental use can be instantly canceled (ie, Brawl's shields; in Other M you could potentially hold B to charge your Speed Booster, or possibly a 3rd-person Grapple Beam).  Using it for Missiles would risk wasting ammunition (granted less of a concern with concentration) and charge time, and regardless of that would feel extremely intrusive.

Also on DeviantArt, Rumble, DLive.tv, and the Fediverse (@freespeechextremist.com and @bae.st)


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Reply #788 on: September 09, 2010, 02:59:09 AM
He's a general, his blood/brain being on file somewhere is no far stretch.  As Other M showed us you can barely sneeze in that outfit without somebody authorizing it.

"Samus: That perfect military mind... The wisdom of Adam Malkovich continued to serve even after death. Until today, I had no idea that the minds of leaders and scientists were frequently uploaded to computers. My incredible reunion with Adam may have saved the universe..."
[spoiler=ZEE SPOILERZ!!]Adam's death I don't mind, but yeah, some encounter with an unfreezable Metroid would have been nice.  Drive home the point that MB was setting Samus up, and also make the fact that they are a setup for Adam's death less obvious.  Yeah, we know he has to buy it before Fusion, and they picked a good way for him to go, my full and sole gripe is being told why, rather than shown why.

Madeline, yeah.  As I said before, her being revealed after Queen Metroid makes it clear that they were just looking at the story and not at game pacing.  I don't expect to grow attached to Melissa, though.  Cheezy dialogue pretty much never comes unexpected to me, and besides, no matter what Madeline thinks of her, she's still based off of Mother Brain.  Samus may or may not believably hesitate to kill her, but trying to build player sympathy with her, I think, is a majorly uphill battle.[/spoiler]

Missiles I didn't mind in the least.  They're sniping weapons in this game, hence the lock-on.  Your added 3rd-person attack power role is filled by the close-range charge attacks.

Would I appreciate Missiles on the B button?  Absolutely not.  If 3rd person use were necessary, use Minus button (currently unoccupied) to switch attack modes.  The B button when held sideways is a last resort, poorly positioned and easily pressed by mistake when your attention is off of it (MM10 suffers SEVERELY for this).  It should never be used for anything potentially detrimental, and if it must be used, is best suited to "hold" mechanics so that accidental use can be instantly canceled (ie, Brawl's shields; in Other M you could potentially hold B to charge your Speed Booster, or possibly a 3rd-person Grapple Beam).  Using it for Missiles would risk wasting ammunition (granted less of a concern with concentration) and charge time, and regardless of that would feel extremely intrusive.
Yep, exactly. So Adam might still be alive somewhere. It's the general rule of off-screen deaths.

Also, Missiles would be good to have on third-person, but I actually thought that having to switch to first-person to use them was a cool move, and raised the challenge level a bit in a way that I didn't find that gimped the gameplay. Plus, if you had missiles in third person, 90% of the time you use the first person would be gone.



Offline Satoryu

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Reply #789 on: September 09, 2010, 06:37:04 AM


What happens in Vegas stays on Youtube. I also stream on Twitch from time to time.


Offline Fxeni

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Reply #790 on: September 09, 2010, 06:57:23 AM
Nice... always fascinated by stuff like this.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #791 on: September 09, 2010, 09:17:56 AM
@Flash/Bat: back from work, but in all seriousness, I can't really describe much, I like Adam and his 'death' scene touched me, and when I get that, it's good/well done to me.  Repeated viewings could change that, but so far, in the case of Adam anyways, not so much of a change.  That's all.

As for 'manga storytelling'.  The movie adaption of Old Boy sure as hell is one [tornado fang]ing awesome adaption, considering what medium it's based on.  Manga too is also awesome, oh, but I guess my opinion is invalid cuz it's wacky japanese comic [parasitic bomb]/sarcasm. :P

But whatever, to each his/her own no?



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Reply #792 on: September 09, 2010, 11:28:02 AM
@Flash/Bat: back from work, but in all seriousness, I can't really describe much, I like Adam and his 'death' scene touched me, and when I get that, it's good/well done to me.  Repeated viewings could change that, but so far, in the case of Adam anyways, not so much of a change.  That's all.

As for 'manga storytelling'.  The movie adaption of Old Boy sure as hell is one [tornado fang]ing awesome adaption, considering what medium it's based on.  Manga too is also awesome, oh, but I guess my opinion is invalid cuz it's wacky japanese comic [parasitic bomb]/sarcasm. :P

But whatever, to each his/her own no?
It's cool. I'm not questioning your taste or anything.

...Old Boy is VERY different from the manga, though. Heck, manga completely sucks compared to the movie.



Offline Kieran

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Reply #793 on: September 09, 2010, 04:18:08 PM
Hm @ video

So, you Infinite Speed into a secret world and bypass the portal before you ever meet Dark Samus.  Maybe I should try it later.

The Other Side
http://www.crowdedstreet.net
irc.esper.net #theotherside

Commander Shepard: *stares blankly at a video of scantily clad asari dancers* ...What kind of hotel is this?
Liara T'Soni: It is a luxury resort with an... exotic edge.  Azure is slang for a part of the asari body in some places on Illium.
Shepard: Where?
Liara: The lower reaches, near the bottom.
Shepard: I meant, "where on the asari body?"
Liara: So did I.


Offline Flame

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Reply #794 on: September 09, 2010, 06:20:32 PM
im guessing this doesnt work on trillogy

Posted on: September 09, 2010, 10:56:51 AM
hey... found these...



Is it possible an early version of prime also had a 3rd person perspective?

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #795 on: September 09, 2010, 06:44:55 PM
im guessing this doesnt work on trillogy

Posted on: September 09, 2010, 10:56:51 AM
hey... found these...



Is it possible an early version of prime also had a 3rd person perspective?
Um, yes. This is known. I think Miyamoto was who made them change the perspective.



Offline Flame

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Reply #796 on: September 09, 2010, 06:55:14 PM
I didnt know. -3-

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Align

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Reply #797 on: September 09, 2010, 07:18:11 PM
Um, yes. This is known. I think Miyamoto was who made them change the perspective.
Interesting. I thought the Japanese hated first person shooters.



Offline The Drunken Dishwasher

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Reply #798 on: September 09, 2010, 07:26:34 PM
Doesn't mean all 'japanese' hate FPSes.



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Reply #799 on: September 09, 2010, 07:28:24 PM
If he loved them, he would have told them to add a friggin' dual analog stick setup.