Topic: Why aren't copy reploids near unkillable?

[CyberXIII]

No, it is you who's refusing change! With your unwillingness to evolve, you are the true Mavericks!

Spoken like an Irregular. You threw away everthing until nothing was left and tried to change this forum.

Everyone else, what will you do?

[Hypershell]

That, my friends, is why I don't bother posting around this area anymore. Any answer I, or anyone else, gives is ignored until one of those three appear and say something, even if it happens to be right. Why bother if no one will bother listening, yes?

You just gotta keep on trying.  The fact that I was mentioned in this thread actually bolsters my ego a bit, usually Zan gets all the glory.

To answer the original question, hell if I know.  There are a million ways to speculate on how the Copy Chip works and what kind of stress, energy consumption, damage, etc. may carry over from one form to another.  It may be that sufficient damage "knocks them out" of their transformation and back to their true form (seen in X8, but not in XCM).  It may be that bodily damage is repaired but their reactor goes nuts after too many fixes.  It may be that as the Copy Chip is refined multiple explanations may apply.  Or it may be that the game developers just don't give a damn.

[Cpie]

Haha Zan Sidera is fed up with all of you!

[marshmallow man]

Any answer I, or anyone else, gives is ignored until one of those three appear and say something, even if it happens to be right. Why bother if no one will bother listening, yes?

I listen! I couldn't tell you how wrong you are if I didn't!

Just kidding. I do like reading the ideas of others, though. And arguing too. Gurus aren't infallible, we make mistakes and wrong assumptions too. If you're good, you can catch us in it. But if you want to hold your own, it's almost necessary to research your own points first. Seems like a lot of people can't or just won't do independent research, and so wind up just repeating what others say or defer questions to someone they think is more knowledgable.

Even if you can't browse sourcebooks or read japanese, you still have your imagination. There are so many gray area questions, like the one in this topic, that don't have official explanations, and require a creative flair with attention to detail to help answer. Even in places where an official explanation does exist, I've read fan ideas I've thought were better than Capcom's version. Imagination and originality is always valuable in its own right. Sometimes there are no wrong answers, but in the times when there are, the only penalty for it is getting walled in by text from some nerds on the internet. And then you learn, and then you know. Their power becomes yours. Nothing too severe.

[Zan]

To answer the original question, hell if I know.  There are a million ways to speculate on how the Copy Chip works and what kind of stress, energy consumption, damage, etc. may carry over from one form to another.  It may be that sufficient damage "knocks them out" of their transformation and back to their true form (seen in X8, but not in XCM).  It may be that bodily damage is repaired but their reactor goes nuts after too many fixes.  It may be that as the Copy Chip is refined multiple explanations may apply.  Or it may be that the game developers just don't give a damn.

Well, Redips is an interesting case study here. The battle with X, confrontation with Jango, hurting his arm saving Zero, sacrificing his life (faked, but in a facility only Incentas can freely teleport?..) And his miraculous recovery from damage by revealing his Spider form. He takes a lot of damage in his attempt to trick the Hunters. According to one of Capcom's concepts, he even copied wheel-chair bound Aile and ripped a card from his own body... (anybody still have the explanation for the multiple explanations revolving around Spider-Redips?)

But, I can't really conclude anything myself here, I've barely even fought the Cadres. >.>

Even if you can't browse sourcebooks or read japanese, you still have your imagination.

But you're the only one who can browse sourcebooks and read Japanese!

[Robert Oakes]

Well, Redips is an interesting case study here. The battle with X, confrontation with Jango, hurting his arm saving Zero, sacrificing his life (faked, but in a facility only Incentas can freely teleport?..) And his miraculous recovery from damage by revealing his Spider form. He takes a lot of damage in his attempt to trick the Hunters. According to one of Capcom's concepts, he even copied wheel-chair bound Aile and ripped a card from his own body... (anybody still have the explanation for the multiple explanations revolving around Spider-Redips?)

But, I can't really conclude anything myself here, I've barely even fought the Cadres. >.>

But you're the only one who can browse sourcebooks and read Japanese!

I'm inclined to believe the Aile we met was the real character. A Reploid soldier from New Hope mentions that Aile looked up to Chief R like a father after he was taken in, and Chief R is taken aback when X informs him of Aile's sacrifice.

There is also the fact that a New Generation Reploid reverts upon death, and yet the ID given to X continues to exist...

And I don't believe that Redips recovered any internal damage simply for using his copy ability. He seems able to move again, but if Axl doesn't recover damage using his own ability, why would Redips be any different? If we assume that Hyper Modes have any value in the storyline, we could theorize that Redips used Trickstar to escape Gimialla Mine (which works exactly like Axl's Stealth Mode, early hint?), but I'll admit I can't explain how Redips could repair his arm unsuspected.

[Zan]

I'm inclined to believe the Aile we met was the real character. A Reploid solder from New Hope mentions that Aile looked up to Chief R like a father after he was taken in, and Chief R is taken aback when X informs him of Aile's sacrifice.

Well, Aile most certainly existed. But his friendship with Spider was wholly fabricated by Redips. If that friendship never existed, what purpose does the ID have? It could therefore very well be the case that Redips had killed Aile and taken his form and recovered the ID card from his body.

And I don't believe that Redips recovered any internal damage simply for using his copy ability. He seems able to move again

I was specifically referring to external damage. In the Redips-Spider revelation scene, is it not the case that Redips' is heavily sparking until he transforms into Spider and back?

(which works exactly like Axl's Stealth Mode, early hint?)

I really wonder about that ability... I'm inclined to believe it's not a Copy Chip based ability, otherwise, that would spoil his cover, but why else would both Axl and Spider have the same ability? Maybe because of their similar stealth orientated origins?

[Robert Oakes]

Well, Aile most certainly existed. But his friendship with Spider was wholly fabricated by Redips. If that friendship never existed, what purpose does the ID have? It could therefore very well be the case that Redips had killed Aile and taken his form and recovered the ID card from his body.

It could also be that once Redips heard X talk about the value of this ID, he saw an opportunity to play along and gain X's trust. The ID was given to X in order to grant him access to the Governor's Precinct.

As it stands, I think there is more evidence of Aile being real than there is against it. If Redips really did impersonate Aile, it's a detail which wasn't even hinted at in the storyline.

I was specifically referring to external damage. In the Redips-Spider revelation scene, is it not the case that Redips' is heavily sparking until he transforms into Spider and back?

Internal or external, it's still damage. And while Redips does display some recovery after transforming, I still don't think this should be attributed to the copy ability since, as I said, we have Axl as a reference. Redips could have used a Sub Tank for all we know...

I really wonder about that ability... I'm inclined to believe it's not a Copy Chip based ability, otherwise, that would spoil his cover, but why else would both Axl and Spider have the same ability? Maybe because of their similar stealth orientated origins?

I suppose that's a possibility.

[Hypershell]

Even if you can't browse sourcebooks or read japanese, you still have your imagination.

This man speaks truth, 'cuz I can't read a damn word of Japanese (translating "crossfire" with a katakana table on the internet took me about ten minutes ).  I just pay attention and archive whatever is of particular interest to me.

I was specifically referring to external damage. In the Redips-Spider revelation scene, is it not the case that Redips' is heavily sparking until he transforms into Spider and back?

Redips offers the SFM speech just after transforming back from Spider, and speaks to them as if they should have taken notice sooner, so one has to wonder if anything is supposed to be read into the context of that.  Was Redips in posession of some SFM fragment(s) beforehand, relevant in some way to him maintaining the Spider act?  Not sure on that one.

But really, in general, Command Mission is inconsistent with other games in its Copy Chip useage.  Not only with Axl but also with the Mavericks (the rematches are said to be Copy Chip 'roids, but they do not revert back at death).  Popularly assumed explanation with Axl is that he saw some upgrade in the interim between the rest of the series and XCM; the same may apply to Copy Chips in general.  Recall in X8's ending that production had resumed some time after the battle with Lumine, so it's very well possible that there were other revisions to the chips since then.

I really wonder about that ability... I'm inclined to believe it's not a Copy Chip based ability, otherwise, that would spoil his cover, but why else would both Axl and Spider have the same ability? Maybe because of their similar stealth orientated origins?

It does seem to be a pretty odd giveaway.  But then every non-standard weapon in the game appears to be ignored for story purposes, so who can say?

[Gotham Ranger]

Nanomachines

[CyberXIII]

Nanomachines

The Metal Gear forum is 3 miles that --> way.

[Nekomata]

because metal gear invented nanaomachines, amirite?

[Zechs]

Nanomachines existed long before Metal Gear. Especially since there are 2 forms of them: Proteins and actual machines. And even the Machine portion have been used before, and even given alternative names. I.E. Nanites...

[Align]

...But just saying "Nanites" doesn't explain much.

[Zan]

...But just saying "Nanites" doesn't explain much.

42.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Sure!  42 nanites would do the trick!

[xemiroth]

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[xemiroth]

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[xemiroth]

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