Topic: What did Lumine mean?

[Flame]

Actually, He wasnt deemed a Maverick for that. he was deemed a Maverick because he seemingly went with Sigma when he rebelled. MHX, and Iwamoto's manga's show that he didn't go with Sigma because he believed in Sigma's ideas, or because he had the virus, But because Sigma made the deal that if he helped him and went with him, he'd get to destroy X and fulfill that lust of his.

[Zechs]

Could have sworn that he would have been deemed a Maverick had he not been 'bailed' from jail... My mistake.

[Flame]

He was borderline Maverick. The hunters really didn't know what to do with him Because sure, he got the job done... rest assured, the enemy was in little pieces, but, so was everything within the vicinity. Be it building or civilian. Which is why he was always in trouble. he was just too destructive, and caused ruckuses. In MHX, he was put in a cell for what he did. He most likely caused a bid uproar again, and was doing his time for it. most likely gonna get sentenced later.

[Zan]

1.  You say that Sigma was sane in X8.  He was not.  Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier.  Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.

"It is not the case that Sigma was by any means insane."

2. You say the newgen reploids cannot go irregular.  The events of X8 disprove this; Lumine himself said that they can do so at will.

Lumine is completely oversimplifying the truth when he says that, he is deliberately talking to the hunters on their terms, using their dogma of irregularity. Before that point, everyone vehemently disagrees with that label. And being 'irregular' is just that, a label; that label is relative. The label has sometimes with pride been applied to themselves, but it has also with detest been applied to the current world order. These same themes re-appear throughout the entire Rockman series.

Quotes on the matter: 

LUMINE: We new generation Reploids enjoy complete and total immunity
to all viruses... So even copying something as dangerous as Sigma provides no
risk.

OPTIC SUNFLOWER: Berserk? I don't think so. We may not be the good guys, but
we're no monsters. No one has a right to put a stop to our plans!
OPTIC SUNFLOWER: No one can control us. You old models cannot even begin to
comprehend my master's - OUR - greatness!

DARK MANTIS: You've gotta be kidding me. We new generation Reploids can't go
Maverick.
DARK MANTIS: Hey there, X... Looks like you can't accept the fact that we're
not Mavericks.
DARK MANTIS: What exactly is controlling YOU, X? Hm? Your precious "justice"?
Is that it?

GRAVITY ANTONION: Maverick? Once again, you attach labels to me. What arrogance!
GRAVITY ANTONION: My master is not incorrect in his philosophy.
GRAVITY ANTONION: And the thought that it is this world that is evil has never
crossed your mind? Oh, forget it... If you get in my way, I'll destroy you!

GIGAVOLT MAN-O-WAR: I'm no Maverick. Who are you, anyway?
GIGAVOLT MAN-O-WAR: I'm no Maverick... I'm not doing anything wrong... I'm work-
ing hard to realize my master's dream of a new world.

ZERO: Hmpf. I could never understand the ideals of Maverick slime!
AVALANCHE YETI: You truly are an old model, aren't you? You can't change the
world with that thinking.

BURN ROOSTER: This is no ordinary riot. This is revenge! Revenge for all the
Reploids you labeled Mavericks and threw onto this scrap heap!
BURN ROOSTER: This is what you mean when you speak of justice? It's you who
should be scrapped! There's no place for Reploids like you in the new world we
will create!

BURN ROOSTER: Hmpf. All I'm doing is listening to the cries of pain... The
cries of all the Reploids you've sent here here because you decided they were
Mavericks.
ZERO: If you can hear all that, I guess that means you're a Maverick too, huh?
BURN ROOSTER: Ha! You'll soon realize who's wrong and who's right in this
struggle.

LUMINE: To put it in a way you'd understand, we of our own free will can become irregulars.

3. You say that they have Sigma of his own free will rebelled against humanity;  he only did so after being corrupted with the program that made Zero go nuts to begin with.  That's not free will;  that's being corrupted into madness.

Why are we disagreeing with factual statements?...

Lumine: It isn't the case that Sigma was by any means insane.
Lumine: Sigma, of his own free will, rebelled against your world.
Lumine: And us repliroids of the new generation, are able to become like Sigma at any time.
Lumine: The copy chip was made from the analysis of various former Repliroids, and among them, naturally, Sigma is there too.

The data of Sigma's original body gives the New Generation the ability to become like Sigma; they think like he does.

Sigma did not go nuts thanks to the Virus, that's a fan assumption. Being infected just made him a new existence as a malicious virus program. Sigma's way of thinking never changed, he simply acquired the means to act on his philosophy. Sigma's philosophy is a result of him being what who he is and learning of the world. As a man without worrying, compassion, hesistation, as a man of logic, that is the conclusion he came up with.

Sigma's philosophy was first formed by seeing X's justice, before he ever came into came into contact with Zero he already began to think about the imperfections of the world. That philosophy is what binds the new generation.

Sigma's pride and self confidence were tattered by Zero. Sigma subsequently desired more power, he desired to evolve. Combined with the imperfections of this world, he realized that humanity was holding back Repliroid progress.

Finally, hearing of X's ability to worry, Sigma learns of limitless evolutionary potential, the power to exceed all Repliroids. But in an ironic twist, it is Sigma that does not worry, he lacks compassion and therefore does not hesitate. All aspects that make him into an irregular from the very start are the same aspects that make limitless potential so far from his grasp.

And thus begins the war of progress, instigated by the Sigma Virus that can turn any Repliroid into an irregular.

4.  Disregarding the fact the IHX was a retcon,  VAVA wasn't completely sane either;  his only real goal was his obsession with X.  He rebelled of his own free will, yes, but he did so the same way Repliforce did.

VAVA and Repliforce are completely different. VAVA from the start is the anti-thesis to X, enjoying violence thanks to the defect on his brain whereas X is a paradoxical pacifist hero because of the circuitry in his brain overworking itself. VAVA never was part of society, VAVA never had any inhibitions, he is just trying to hold up the facade of regularity so that he can destroy Repliroids as an Irregular Hunter. It is his choice to discard this disguise and go irregular; it is for this reason that he go irregular of his own free will/of his own accord. Sigma and the New Generation are the same; they can decide to stay normal as long as they want, or they can accept their real selves and decide to become irregulars.

Repliforce on the other hand is an army for the human government that tried their best to please humans. However, thanks to their social situation; between their strong allegiance to the humans, their pride and Sigma's manipulation, the label of irregularity was forced upon them.


 

[CyberXIII]

It feels like we're running in circles here.  You're speaking in terms of X8, I'm looking at the whole series.

Lumine kept saying Sigma was sane.  In X8, granted, he was somewhat lucid (at least in the English version, but in the Japanese: HOROBE! HOROBE HOROBE HOROBE HOROBEEEE!), but in X6 he was downright psychotic (Zombie design not withstanding).  X4's Sigma wasn't all that sane either: his entire plan was to effectively blow up the world with Final Weapon.

Plus, let's look at his big plan in X8:  "Hey VAVA/Vile, let's kidnap the director of a project that's going to make a really big elevator to the moon!"  How exactly was that going to help the human race?  (The project, not Sigma's meddling.)

Saying the newgen reploids can think like him is like saying someone can think like Norman Osborn at any given moment.

Oh, and as for the mavericks-do you know how many clearly insane people deny their own craziness?  Plus, some of the greatest geniuses in the world are at least eccentric. 

This discussion also raises the question of how much Lumine knew about the previous rebellions....

[Zechs]

Lumine kept saying Sigma was sane.  In X8, granted, he was somewhat lucid (at least in the English version, but in the Japanese: HOROBE! HOROBE HOROBE HOROBE HOROBEEEE!), but in X6 he was downright psychotic (Zombie design not withstanding).  X4's Sigma wasn't all that sane either: his entire plan was to effectively blow up the world with Final Weapon.

X6 he was barely conscious. As he wasn't even fully 'REVIVED'. He was driven by instinct since his emotions weren't revived at that point. X4, the Final Weapon wouldn't have blown up the World. it would have destroyed most of the Human portion. Is Sigma was the Weapon, he could trigger anyone he seen fit which would have given him a nice piece of leverage to make people follow him...

Plus, let's look at his big plan in X8:  "Hey VAVA/Vile, let's kidnap the director of a project that's going to make a really big elevator to the moon!"  How exactly was that going to help the human race?

The Orbital Elevator would eventually have been able to move people to outer planets. It would have been more of a possibility. Taking over said project for personal gain halts this portion.

Saying the newgen reploids can think like him is like saying someone can think like Norman Osborn at any given moment.

You are not quite following. It is 'Maverick' as in a Label. They can freely choose to follow their orders or go against them. Since the NEW GENS are meant for the Orbital Elevator projects, they can choose to aid the humans in reaching new possible homes/creating new homes or to deny that chance and remain them bound to a planet already scared by attempted human genocide.

h, and as for the mavericks-do you know how many clearly insane people deny their own craziness?  Plus, some of the greatest geniuses in the world are at least eccentric.

A Crazy person doesn't know they are crazy. That is left to those spectating their decisions. Plus Genius/insane has a fine line of separation...

This discussion also raises the question of how much Lumine knew about the previous rebellions....

Having Sigma DNA, it wouldn't have been hard to look into Sigma's previous efforts. Anything that can be connected to him, since they agree with his philosophy essentially... Quite possible Limune knew quite a bit.

[Gotham Ranger]

Wasn't the original definition of a maverick a reploid with circuitry malfunctions in their brain or whatever? Doesn't that make Vile the poster boy for mavericks what with his [tornado fang]'d up brain?

[Zechs]

Basically, yes. Though it is more alike to Irregular. behaving erratically in methods that can harm humans, destroy property needlessly, and such. Vile would have been classified as a Maverick if he was present for his Hunter Trial. But following Sigma, he was deemed Maverick because he followed a Reploid who's actions harmed citizens/civilians and collateral damage.

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

Wasn't the original definition of a maverick a reploid with circuitry malfunctions in their brain or whatever?

It was like that until the Sigma Virus came along.

[Flame]

Lumine kept saying Sigma was sane.  In X8, granted, he was somewhat lucid (at least in the English version, but in the Japanese: HOROBE! HOROBE HOROBE HOROBE HOROBEEEE!), but in X6 he was downright psychotic (Zombie design not withstanding).  X4's Sigma wasn't all that sane either: his entire plan was to effectively blow up the world with Final Weapon.

You really need to pay more attention to posts.

You cannot compare X6's sigma, as he was barely alive. He was incomplete, and so was his consciousness. Or have you not noticed his zombie design in the game?

Zombie design notwithstanding, He was still just revived from the brink of his true death. And was not finished as Gate never got the chance to fully finish him up.
In X5 Sigma Died for real. He did not have enough Virus, and could not trigger his revival program. He for all intents and purposes, died for good. If it weren't for Gate, He probably would have stayed that way.

X: You dont seem to complete Sigma!

(Ill wait on Zan for the Japanese in game dialogue since the english one was no good...)

also, Horobe! Its called in fight dialogue. Just like X yelling STOP IT! when he fires his buster in X7. or Zeros comments in CM.

"You're finished..."

also, so in cases like Vile and New Gens, its basically similar to being in the closet?

[CyberXIII]

X6 he was barely conscious. As he wasn't even fully 'REVIVED'. He was driven by instinct since his emotions weren't revived at that point. X4, the Final Weapon wouldn't have blown up the World. it would have destroyed most of the Human portion. Is Sigma was the Weapon, he could trigger anyone he seen fit which would have given him a nice piece of leverage to make people follow him...

The Orbital Elevator would eventually have been able to move people to outer planets. It would have been more of a possibility. Taking over said project for personal gain halts this portion.

You are not quite following. It is 'Maverick' as in a Label. They can freely choose to follow their orders or go against them. Since the NEW GENS are meant for the Orbital Elevator projects, they can choose to aid the humans in reaching new possible homes/creating new homes or to deny that chance and remain them bound to a planet already scared by attempted human genocide.

A Crazy person doesn't know they are crazy. That is left to those spectating their decisions. Plus Genius/insane has a fine line of separation...

Having Sigma DNA, it wouldn't have been hard to look into Sigma's previous efforts. Anything that can be connected to him, since they agree with his philosophy essentially... Quite possible Limune knew quite a bit.

1.  Gate says outright that he "brought back the evil Sigma", and that he knew full well that as treacherous as Sigma was, he( Gate) might be destroyed.  That implies he had brought back the cunning, conniving Sigma from the previous 5 games.

2. Unless they turned the Elevator into a far more gigantic Teleporter, the interplanetary travel thing wouldn't pan out, what with orbit and distance involved.

3. Your description of the Maverick label sounds more like the Repliroid label in general.  Weren't they designed with the ability to have free will and choose to follow humanity willingly in the first place?

[Zechs]

1.  Gate says outright that he "brought back the evil Sigma", and that he knew full well that as treacherous as Sigma was, he( Gate) might be destroyed.  That implies he had brought back the cunning, conniving Sigma from the previous 5 games.

1: Gate does say he brought him back. But did he say how much of him? He was dead. DEAD... Gate resurrected him after study of Zero's DNA data. He didn't have time to fully REVIVE Sigma. Just simply Resurrect him in his basic operating settings. Hence his 'INSTINCT' to fight without a fully developed consciousness.

2. Unless they turned the Elevator into a far more gigantic Teleporter, the interplanetary travel thing wouldn't pan out, what with orbit and distance involved.

2: Doesn't matter. The Orbital Elevator is a method to breach the Atmosphere and from there designate trajectory. If the Tower itself was assumed in control, then the whole idea is naught...

3. Your description of the Maverick label sounds more like the Repliroid label in general.  Weren't they designed with the ability to have free will and choose to follow humanity willingly in the first place?

3: They have limited 'free will'. They certainly have the potential, with the Neg Gens proving this. But they also were not fully granted full free will. This would reflect upon them and would create devastating problems if they decided to act against humans. In other words, many more and different Sigma's. They do possess it as potential, but not fully granted such doe to the high risk they possess...

[Gotham Ranger]

also, so in cases like Vile and New Gens, its basically similar to being in the closet?

Lumine was pretty homo..

[Flame]

1.  Gate says outright that he "brought back the evil Sigma", and that he knew full well that as treacherous as Sigma was, he( Gate) might be destroyed.  That implies he had brought back the cunning, conniving Sigma from the previous 5 games.

think of it this way. You make a deal with the devil to "bring back" your lover. he says, I have brought back your beloved lover, and plls the curtains aside, revealing a decayed mindless Zombie that attacks you and eats you alive.
he still "brought" the person back, no? He most certainly did. But there was no specification of what state of being.

Gate revived Sigma, But Sigma was barely conscious. He was still regaining his bearings, so to speak. He was also incomplete. if you look at his sprite, He activated before his body's construction was finished. hell, his motor functions weren't fully finished either. and his mind was just ripped from the afterlife. He was the equivalent of a Zombie. and His defeat by X and Zero gave him the time to fully recover from X5. in X7, he is back to his usual self. And X7 takes place quite some time after X6. I would say a few years, even. It gave Sigma the proper R&R that he was not able to get before being activated by Gate.

also, Reploids cold all go maverick at will. But they have Morals and beliefs and the 3 laws that are all in the back of their mind, keeping them in check. Its the same way you would not suddenly go out into the street stark naked. You have morals and beliefs imposed by society. However, there are also people that are just inherently evil. They are just born that way. Mavericks like Vile and any reploid who would just become a maverick on a dime without any major problems, Such as Sigma, is like that. they are in the closet about their true nature, and abide by societies norms until they accept who and what they truly are, and go "Maverick."
Vile can be excused due to his Mental instability caused by a glitch. If it were not for that Glitch, you might never  have seen him in X1. the glitch was what alowed him to be so destructive, regardless of society. Sigma approached him and offered him the chance to defeat X and cause as much destruction as he wanted if he joined him. Vile, agreed.

Posted on: July 04, 2009, 01:53:15 AM

Lumine was pretty homo..

not like that. Im comparing. They are in the closet about their maverickness.

[Ramzal]

Okay...

1.  You say that Sigma was sane in X8.  He was not.  Every time Siggy transferred himself to a new body, he got crazier.  Compare X1's Original Sigma to X6's Reborn Sigma.  

I am only going to address this one due to the -popular- misconception of what the term "psychosis" refers to as well as X mislabeling Sigma an unimaginable amount of times, as well as fans of the series. (Psychosis = insanity)

Insanity does not by any means refer to the act of taking lives outside of the laws or standards of a certain living period. It means that an action is taken from a deep misunderstanding of what truly is and reacting off the misunderstanding/ignorance without your mind going into deeper detail of your actions/caring to the least.

In fact. Here's a copy and paste of the very definition of insanity.

1: a deranged state of the mind usually occurring as a specific disorder (as schizophrenia)

From what is shown in Maverick Hunter X, Sigma did not go through anything of the sort as schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, or show an actual signs of psychosis. Sigma plotted, planned, and when he got the chance, he took time to -listen- and understand from Dr. Cain's words about X. Needless to say, someone who's suffering from insanity would not bother to try and understand anything. They would simply react. From what is shown in X7 the virus doesn't exactly turn you into a raving lunatic as the Hyena showed, he was in extreme pain and was at a loss for logical actions. (I.E, thinking that killing Zero, X, Axl who showed up right when he started suffering would stop it.) And before anything is said, illogical decisions or actions are usually made/done when someone is under unimaginable pain.


2: such unsoundness of mind or lack of understanding as prevents one from having the mental capacity required by law to enter into a particular relationship, status, or transaction or as removes one from criminal or civil responsibility

Sigma understood every law, every nook and cranny, analyzed it and was not satisfied with the current state of the world or popular opinion. His constant debates with Cain are proof of this. He has the mental capacity to understand the law, he just doesn't see why he should be bound by the laws and not create his own utopia. Which, when you think back on modern history, seems to be the way that -every rebel faction in time felt.- Be they on ethical right or wrong.

3 a: extreme folly or unreasonableness b: something utterly foolish or unreasonable

Now, this is the one where proves Sigma is not insane. When you consider the positions Reploids are placed in, being servants for an obviously weaker species, forced to slaughter their own on a single command or order, to work endlessly with seeing so little as enough to keep themselves either functioning until their use is over, upgrading or maintaining weaponry, or just for the satisfaction of their human creators how can you not go: "Okay.. I see where they were going with this."

Be whatever title they were given, they were humanity's slaves in the X series more than companions. Humanity couldn't do half of the labor they put the reploids through, fight the wars they forced the reploids to fight or last as long as their creations could. Needless to say, it'd be completely unbelievable for there to not be rebellions under those conditions. Or even then, understanding why there are rebellions. They've created a race that is self-efficent, self reproducing by using the same machines to make themselves, and powerful that the question of why they're still scrubbing the back fat of Trucker-Joe comes to mind.

Which is where Sigma's rebellion comes in, and by all means, it's logical. Namely under the terms of "Survival of the fittest". And in a world where robots can do all the work? I can just guess humanity is just about 80% body fat at that point. While him leveling a city with missiles is unethical, it's something that is logical in the sense of "sacrifice for the greater good." It sends out a message to your enemies that you are not--and you will not play games with them. That you -will- wage war like they've never seen.

When you consider it, Lumine was very right to say that Sigma was perfectly sane, both logically and literally by means of definition of "insanity". What was the cause of it was the sub-consciously, there was his decision to rebel under those conditions. Which, if you took another race of people and have them bossed around by one race--well, we've all seen that outcome in history.

Insane does not fit the bill for a description, if anything Sigma woud earn the title of being void of all moral ethics. X6 being the only exception due to Gate not being done with repairs. While vague, he could have been unstable due to not being completed.

Edit: And for the sake of making it simple, here's differences in insanity and completely unethical in comics.

Carnage: INSANE. Killing random bystanders because--well, he was literally bored.
Punisher: Unethical. Killing people who are dangerous, and avoiding the very justice he stands by and chased by.

Scarecrow: INSANE. Killing because he gets a kick out of how people react to their deepest fears and nightmares, and jotting down the information for further use.
Joker: Extremely unethical. He is...literally too sane to the point where it effects him in negative ways. Joker causes carnage in an experiment to test humanity in it's darkest moments, revealing--to all--that while they may think they are not capable of something, doing one little action and taking one life will push them into madness. And for all their plans, one random act will shatter them all.

Every time the Joker did something, and people acted how he expected them to act, proved his lack of insanity--under the definition, that he understood the situation, reactions, and causes.

Needless to say, this actions weren't for his own benefit but mainly to test humanity of their claims.

Being a murderer or being a mass murderer does not make you insane.

[Flame]

*Claps*
that was amazing.
Topic over.

could have been though? That was the SOLE reason he was so far out there in X6.

[Zan]

How exactly was that going to help the human race?  (The project, not Sigma's meddling.)

The plan wasn't Sigma's, the plan was humanity's. What relevance does it hold in discussing Sigma's state of mind?

This is a dying world, the Orbital Elevator is the route to space, allowing transportation between Earth and the moon's surface. By using the Orbital Elevator, the biggest danger of breaking through the atmosphere is already avoided.

and as for the mavericks-do you know how many clearly insane people deny their own craziness?  Plus, some of the greatest geniuses in the world are at least eccentric.

3. Your description of the Maverick label sounds more like the Repliroid label in general.  Weren't they designed with the ability to have free will and choose to follow humanity willingly in the first place?

Being built with free will does not at all implicate freedom, you are bound by the rules of reality, society and your own conscience.

The question is here, what is truly free? Following society, following the inhibition that is the conscience? Or is true freedom breaking away from society and throwing away the inhibition that is the conscience in favor of your true self?

Those like Sigma propose the strong question whether or not someone like X, who worries, has a heart, has compassion, as someone who denies change, is the true irregular. Likewise, those more like X consider the likes of Sigma who has no conscience, no compassion, wishes to change the world by destroying the current society, as the  true irregular.

Those 'evil' apply the label of irregular to those 'good', whereas those 'good' apply the label of irregular to those 'evil'. But who determines who is evil and who is good? In that same line of thought, who determines who is sane and who is insane? Who is irregular and who is regular?

--

"Maverick? You don't really think that's the case, do you? That's why
you can't finish me off, right? You don't have it in you..."

"Who are you to judge!? Only future generations will have the right to
say whether we are truly Maverick or not."

"Maverick? You seem more Maverick to me. With all your stubborn
nonsense about friendship and... and your unwillingness to evolve."

"Stay in our place, be friendly to all, decade after decade...
indefinitely... Is this all Reploids will ever be? Some day... you'll see...
We'll... Change the world."

"The destiny of destruction...  Still awaits...  So long as you have hearts, hate will lurk in the shadows.  You who possess the wellspring of emotion known as the heart...  You are the true Mavericks!"

"Hmph... By drowning in peace, by rejecting change, you made the choice for the destruction of the Earth. I am trying to create a new world. I want to bring new life into the world and protect its future."

[CyberXIII]

Okay, slightly off-topic: the Joker is most definitely not sane. He's been said to have been driven nuts His popularity notwithstanding, what was the defense that he's used to avoid the death penalty? 

As a matter of fact, most of the Batman villains are crazy (or psychotic, if you want the correct label); Two-face's obsession with duality (and in some versions, split-personality disorder), Poison Ivy's eco-terrorism reeks of hypocrisy and sociopathy, Harley Quinn was driven insane by the Joker, the Riddler's signature gimmick has been said to have been his compulsion to always speak the truth, and most of the others are either sociopathic or desparate ( DCAU's Mr. Freeze in particular).

On-topic-stop looking at Sigma's words and look at his actions.

X1- Here we have the cold, ruthless, somewhat psychotic tyrant.  His plan was sound and logical- get rid of the useless sacks of guts and water that keep bossing his species around.

X2- Sigma's plan here was to revive Zero and use him against X.  It was implied here that he found out about Zero's origins in between the games here, and figured Zero would join him.  Here's where we find out Sigma's become a virus.

X3- He's become far more manipulative here: Dr. Doppler was infected by the Sigma Virus and was used to created Neo² Sigma and Kaiser Sigma.  This implies rampant sociopathy: Sigma's starting to think of members of his own species as things.

X4- His big plan here was to pit Repliforce against the Hunters and take control of Final Weapon.  Sociopathy aside, Sigma split himself between 5 different heads during the last fight; that had to be taxing.

X5- Here he's almost become obsessed with purifying Zero and returning him to his vicious roots.  X only plays an incidental role in the plot; Sigma's goals revolve around recreating Maverick Zero and using him to destroy X.

X6- Gate was the main culprit here.  Despite that, his dialog suggests he was fully there; he recognized both X and Zero, and before the final battle he only sounded tired. (After X5, I would be too...)  It seemed to me the strain from body-hopping so soon caused that psychosis (JUZDIE! ZELLO! ZELLLLLLOOOOO!!) we all remember here.

X7- Sigma wanted to use Axl to gain the DNA data from X; he did to Red Alert what he did to Repliforce, except he infected several of the bosses (Flame Hyenard and Tornado Tonion were the obvious victims here).  Nothing new here. Note that Professor Sigma appeared to be a finished version of Reborn Sigma.

X8-I'm not gonna touch this one; we've discussed this to death.

He seems to suffer mainly from sociopathy, and is not above using anyone and everyone hecan to further his own goals.  It also seemed to me that he stopped caring about freeing Reploids from humanity's control and starting to obsess over his vendetta against X and Zero.  That's not exactly mentally healthy.

The words Insanity and Psychosis seem to be erroneously interchangeable in modern times.

[Flame]

Okay, slightly off-topic: the Joker is most definitely not sane. He's been said to have been driven nuts His popularity notwithstanding, what was the defense that he's used to avoid the death penalty?

He has also been hypothesized to possibly have a form of super sanity, which varies from day to day to accommodate to society around him. A harmless clown one day, a psychotic serial killer the next. But the joker is irrelevant to this. I cannot see how he relates to this discussion at all.

X2- Sigma's plan here was to revive Zero and use him against X.  It was implied here that he found out about Zero's origins in between the games here, and figured Zero would join him.  Here's where we find out Sigma's become a virus.

False. We did not find out he was a virus in X2. What we saw, was a holographic wireframe head of Sigma. Just like there was the sword miniboss earlier during the actual Magna Centipede stage.

X3- He's become far more manipulative here: Dr. Doppler was infected by the Sigma Virus and was used to created Neo² Sigma and Kaiser Sigma.  This implies rampant sociopathy: Sigma's starting to think of members of his own species as things.

what is "Neo[sup2[/sup]"? I do not recall Sigma's first body having a name. Also, Sigma was manipulating Doppler. Doppler would not otherwise assist him. he infected Doppler and Doppler made him his body. It does not indicate Sociopathy. Sigma used similar methods as far as X1. Storm Eagle is an example. He resisted Sigma, and was beaten down and subordinated in return. Sigma infected many Maverick Hunters and defected them to his cause. It is the same exact thing as in X3. also, THIS is where we discover that he is a Virus. Doppler once defeated, regains his senses, and reveals it to X.

X4- His big plan here was to pit Repliforce against the Hunters and take control of Final Weapon.  Sociopathy aside, Sigma split himself between 5 different heads during the last fight; that had to be taxing.

The Idea to take over Final weapon was only once they actually built it. Obviously by integrating himself with the very weapon itself. Also, Final Weapon can not obliterate the whole Earth. It can cause widespread damage enough to kill a VERY large amount of Humans, which is his goal. Also, Pitting the Hunters against the Repliforce does not show any form of mental illness. In fact, It shows that he is clever. The idea is for them to both destroy each other so that thee is no one left to stop HIM. He figured that The Hunters would label Repliforce Maverick for Sky lagoon, because he had close proximity to General I assume he was aware of Colonel's personality, and abused His stubborn pride. He figured that They would both wipe the majority of each other out. Thats not something a sociopath would do.

X5- Here he's almost become obsessed with purifying Zero and returning him to his vicious roots.  X only plays an incidental role in the plot; Sigma's goals revolve around recreating Maverick Zero and using him to destroy X.

Sigma has been intruiged by his partners obsession over Zero. Plus, He wants to destroy them both, X and Zero. and what better way than a betrayal? a sad and dramatic end. Zero would serve his purpose and kill X, and then be on his side. plus, the idea of using Eurasia also presents massive collateral damage, which could destroy almost all of humanity. The alternate scenario, while not the one that happened, shows that if Eurasia successfully collides with the Earth, the human race just nearly avoids extinction. Kill 3 birds with one stone. Kill X, Kill the Humans, and have a evil Zero on his side, with his "Partner"s assistance.

X6- Gate was the main culprit here.  Despite that, his dialog suggests he was fully there; he recognized both X and Zero, and before the final battle he only sounded tired. (After X5, I would be too...)  It seemed to me the strain from body-hopping so soon caused that psychosis (JUZDIE! ZELLO! ZELLLLLLOOOOO!!) we all remember here.

It was the only reason. and Not because he was "tired" or "worn out" But because he was barely even alive. He was just brought back from the eve of his true death, which had completely obliterated him, and was awakened in an incomplete body, and barely even conscious. All he could even remember was revene against those that had hurt him. He was running on rage and instinct.

X7- Sigma wanted to use Axl to gain the DNA data from X; he did to Red Alert what he did to Repliforce, except he infected several of the bosses (Flame Hyenard and Tornado Tonion were the obvious victims here).  Nothing new here. Note that Professor Sigma appeared to be a finished version of Reborn Sigma.

X and Zero. Not just X. and he infected ALL of red alert. not just a few. When Red Realized his organization was just used by Sigma, and demanded he leave them alone, he presented the Sigma Virus brainwashed members of Red alert.
"Lets do this Democratically..."
"If you dont do as I say, they'll never return to normal..."

X8-I'm not gonna touch this one; we've discussed this to death.

No, we will discuss it.

He seems to suffer mainly from sociopathy, and is not above using anyone and everyone hecan to further his own goals.  It also seemed to me that he stopped caring about freeing Reploids from humanity's control and starting to obsess over his vendetta against X and Zero.  That's not exactly mentally healthy.

Sociopathy? How can you figure? also, he never saw himself as some savior. He only cares about reploid evolution. Anyone who opposes it or does not follow him, is part of the problem, and he has no qualms with eliminating or using them.

[Zan]

CyberXIII, you seem to be confusing the terms 'unethical' and 'insanity'.

Sigma's philosophy is one achieved for a large portion by logical thinking, he is very much correct in the conclusions he made; they were made with a sane mind. It's just that his conclusion requires a clear lack of ethics to accept; Sigma's philosophy is that humanity is holding back Repliroid evolution and therefore should be eradicated. Even someone like X can accept Sigma's philosophy as logical, he just vehemently detests it for its unethical aspect. As a result, X considers Sigma's unethical actions as being 'insane.'

So, it boils down to what I proposed before.. Is being ethical sanity? Is being unethical insanity? Or vice versa? Strong emotions of care surely cloud the rational mind, so how is that sane? A complete lack of care has no inhibitions, so how is that sane? Good, evil, sane, insane, regular, irregular.

'The issue isn't so black and white.'

However, you still seem to be blaming the Virus for Sigma's state of mind... don't... X8 clearly proves that using the DNA of the original Sigma induces the same state of mind as the current Sigma; it allows people to see his philosophy as correct by viewing it with his lack of compassion. The Virus isn't affecting the New Generation at all and they have the DNA of his original body; so how could it be that the Virus is responsible for Sigma's change of heart?

[Thanatos-Zero]

'The issue isn't so black and white.'

Indeed, however since Sigma cannot feel or understand what compassion and worrying is, he can´t truly understand the world or the world him.
It was not the world which was imperfect, it was Sigma himself. That is the whole irony of it.

[Flame]

The Irony, actually, Is that it is X's compassion, Worrying, All those things that make X X, Which give him the ability to evolve and grow as he fights. Those are all things which Sigma lacks, ad therefore, his dream of evolution will never be within his grasp.

[CyberXIII]

As to Flame's question, Neo² Sigma was the official name of X3 Sigma's first form.  

Sociopath-Antisocial Personality Disorder is also known as psychopathy or
sociopathy. Individuals with this disorder have little regard for the
feeling and welfare of others. As a clinical diagnosis it is usually
limited to those over age 18. It can be diagnosed in younger people
if the they commit isolated antisocial acts and do not show signs of
another mental disorder.

Antisocial Personality Disorder is chronic, beginning in adolescence
and continuing throughout adulthood. There are ten general
symptoms:

not learning from experience
no sense of responsibility
inability to form meaningful relationships
inability to control impulses
lack of moral sense
chronically antisocial behavior
no change in behavior after punishment
emotional immaturity
lack of guilt
self-centeredness

Most of these definitely seem to fit Sigma, especially the lack of guilt one.  Not learning from experience fits too: 8 mavericks everytime.

EDIT:People with this disorder may exhibit criminal behavior. They may
not work. If they do work, they are frequently absent or may quit
suddenly. They do not consider other people's wishes, welfare or
rights. They can be manipulative and may lie to gain personal
pleasure or profit. They may default on loans, fail to provide child
support, or fail to care for their dependents adequately. High risk
sexual behavior and substance abuse are common. Impulsiveness,
failure to plan ahead, aggressiveness, irritability, irresponsibility,
and a reckless disregard for their own safety and the safety of
others are traits of the antisocial personality.

[Zan]

Neo2 Sigma was the official name of X3 Sigma's first form.

"Neo Sigma" is a name used for X2's final Sigma. X3's Sigma is just referred to as "Sigma" and "Kaiser Sigma" for his final form.

Not learning from experience fits too: 8 mavericks everytime.

Yeah, an arbitrary gameplay limitation is a sign of Sigma not learning? Just because the game only focuses on eight bosses doesn't mean there are more. Besides, not all of the eight have the same allegiance in a few of the games.

Really, no matter what number of forces he has, X and Zero will always defeat them.

Most of these definitely seem to fit Sigma

Really, they don't. Sigma is a charismatic leader. That alone negates the good majority of symptoms.

[VixyNyan]

Zan is right~

X2: (Neo Sigma)

X3: (Sigma)