Topic: Writer question.

[Acid]

I nominate Zan for this year's RPM Awards.

Having the most, damn-long posts ever.

[Blackhook]

The whole Megaman story is told good enough for me to understand it....there are still minor things I don´t know....but still and Zan is stating the Obvious that was mentioned in the games, he can just put it in such a lovely way

[Gauntlet101010]

What you're having trouble with is reading too much into a vaguely worded non-canon piece of text that was never even shown within the same series!

I find it ironic that it's only "non-canon" when it suits your current point. I don't recall you having any qualms about using it as a proof when it came to X being the only Reploid to lack bias.  Which, by the way, is another thing not covered in the games.  It's badly written and confuses the story, (and if it's non canon then it absolutely has confused fans) so why the Hell shouldn't it count? We're talking about Capcom's poor writing here.

Everything up to X5 is pretty easy to understand, in terms of viruses.  After that tho, the virus situation becomes something of a mess.  There's too many.  And they mix up the terms.  A sign of poor writing and lack of foresight.

Frankly, their treatment of "viruses" is another sign of bad writing.  Oh, I understand it just fine.  But it's cumbersome and has the elegance of an elephant.  The "colony virus" is a great example of this.  Somehow, crashing a space colony spreads a virus about.  And the purpose of this new virus is to interact with a known virus and, somehow, merge to create a close approximation of Zero's original virus.  All this as opposed to, say, Wily just releasing the Zero virus.  In terms of the story, the colony virus never needed to exist in order to get the point across. 
Occam's razor: X5 would have been better understood if it didn't exist. 

The Sigma virus is the Maverick virus.  One of these terms doesn't need to exist.  Since Zero infected Sigma it's only logical that the term "Sigma virus" doen't need to exist. 

I actually tried explaining X5 and the Zero virus to my sister, who knows nothing about X, and she was thorough confused and didn't care for it.  Lord knows I've seen newbies come in various forums asking about the virus.  Even the Megaman Wiki can admit it's confusing.  It didn't start out that way, but it sure has become much more confusing that it had a right to be.  And that's mostly because of the amount of viruses within the series along with the unnecessary "suffering circuit" explanation.

Suffering Circuit = Worrying = The ability to think, feel and make your own decisions = free will.

No way that the Sigma Virus which creates irregulars relates to free will, that's just such a ludicrously overcomplicated concept!

Oh yeah, a virus that overrides free will relates directly to a concept introduced first in a source book  released only in Japan is soooooo accessible to fans.  Yeah, why did I ever think it wasn't accessible to people who play the games?  I mean, X1 is all about suffering circuits.  It's "suffering circuit" this and "suffering circuit" that.  Why, even Dr. Light's hologram talks about X's "suffering circuit".

Oh wait, he doesn't!  Maybe that's why it's poor writing!

You have very long posts, but while I have demonstrated several areas where the X series lacks (save for people with the utmost of faith in Capcom and full knowledge of sourcebooks as well as encyclopedic knowledge of all characters and concepts that come from said books and every game) you have yet to provide any examples of good writing to balance things out. 

So, where is it, Zan?  Where's the good writing in the X series?  It can't be with the Wily subplot; they switched gears on that after a long buildup with no payoff.  Is it with X's story?  Because the games focus mostly on Zero and his story.  So maybe it's that?  I'll admit that Zero's story is pretty good, despite the series being "Megaman X" and all.  So if the story isn't about the title character, then is that "good writing?"

Is the "good writing" the deep philosophical argument in what happens when you give robots free will?  Oh wait, the "Sigma / Maverick / Zero / Nightmare / Colony" virus doesn't make that too much of a choice!  Not much of a discussion. 

So where's the good writing?  Can it be found in X6?  Maybe I should ask "Zello?"  Is it X7 and 8, where they switch gears completely from the past 6 games to go off on a totally different storyline?  And where the title character isn't even accessible at first?  Is that "good writing"? 

Is it X1's intro; the explanation of who the main character is?  "X i the first robot able to think, feel and make decisions"?  That one line in the first game has caused countless debates / arguments and confusion for years!  Surely, you can't think that that's good writing! 

So, where is it?  The first three games of the series?  3 / 8, is that the score?  Because that's 38%.  A failure.  Is it in the sourcebooks?  Because I can't even read them and neither can you.  Is it in the information they convey?  Information related through books when the medium is a video game?  Do factoids that can't be read directly constitute "good writing?" 

And let's not continue to confuse "done purposefully" with "good".  You can do something on purpose and have it fail miserably.  It can be done "on purpose" and still be a mistake.  Being confusing and ambiguous for the sake of being confusing and ambiguous is not good writing.  In fact, it's poor writing trying to be mediocre writing.

You can explain how everything makes sense 'till you're blue in the face, but that doesn't mean it's actually written well.  I didn't say the series was "unexplainable". I said it was written (and implied it was concieved of) poorly.  So where is the good writing? 

[Jericho]

I nominate Zan for this year's RPM Awards.

Having the most, damn-long posts ever.

This and the fact that they're actually informative make him a shoe in for it.

[Zan]

I find it ironic that it's only "non-canon" when it suits your current point. I don't recall you having any qualms about using it as a proof when it came to X being the only Reploid to lack bias.  Which, by the way, is another thing not covered in the games. 

They said 'might.' Some is, some isn't, and it will change with time.

And really, I never used it as canon to explain anything, all matter the three keys point at are in the games or sourcebooks somewhere. Three keys is not to be taken as literal and out of context; it is to point you to the other sources to figure it out.

Worrying in that regard is adequately explained in X1 and IHX completely in line with three keys, therefore making the workings of worrying as explained in three keys a fact. In other words, there's nothing to contradict it, there's everything that backs it up. The way three keys works, you're supposed to interpret it without contradiction, or discard all elements that contradict.

Oh yeah, a virus that overrides free will relates directly to a concept introduced first in a source book

Manual. X1. Worrying is the new epoch in robotics that allows X the ability to think and feel and make his own decisions.

The "suffering circuit" is just a name for that specific piece of hardware that's responsible for worrying.

Both the name and the hardware itself are irrelevant. The effect is what's important, and the effect was always known. What difference does it make that you know it has a metal casing and has a name? It's a part of X's psyche, that's what is important.

The Sigma virus is the Maverick virus.  One of these terms doesn't need to exist.

An irregular virus was revealed to be Sigma, hence Sigma Virus.

Somehow, crashing a space colony spreads a virus about. 

Sigma himself said he turned Eurasia into a virus colony.

And the purpose of this new virus is to interact with a known virus and, somehow, merge to create a close approximation of Zero's original virus.  All this as opposed to, say, Wily just releasing the Zero virus.

As I already said, Sigma Virus turning into Zero Virus was important to convey the feeling that Zero was the origin of Sigma Virus. They showed how much of Zero exists in the Sigma Virus.

I actually tried explaining X5 and the Zero virus to my sister, who knows nothing about X, and she was thorough confused and didn't care for it.  Lord knows I've seen newbies come in various forums asking about the virus.  Even the Megaman Wiki can admit it's confusing.

Uber complicated, you need to have studied biology to understand it.

So, where is it, Zan?  Where's the good writing in the X series?  It can't be with the Wily subplot; they switched gears on that after a long buildup with no payoff.  Is it with X's story?  Because the games focus mostly on Zero and his story.  So maybe it's that?  I'll admit that Zero's story is pretty good, despite the series being "Megaman X" and all.  So if the story isn't about the title character, then is that "good writing?"

Each game on its own is well written. With special mention of certain games, such as IHX, X4, X6, XS. Which delivered their themes to near perfection.

When it comes to the game to game storyline, they had multiple plotlines running through the games, all of which amount to one climax; the battle between X and Zero.  From establishing X's unlimited potential in a war of progress, to the dark origins of Zero to the creation of Sigma Virus to their mutual fear of becoming irregulars. All of which leads to their climatic battle at the end of the world. The order of revelations leading to X5 is well written in my opinion, especially for such a limited format.

The X-series as intended by Inafune ends there leaving only the mystery that is Wily's current presence.

X6 is effectively a stand alone epilogue title that serves to give one final hint to that one lingering mystery.

XC and XS are stand alone titles that fill in certain things they couldn't focus on in the other games.

And until that story plays out its course, you're best off considering X7+ it's own seperate entity from X1~5+6.

Didn't I mention this already? The X-series IS NOT OVER. Just like DASH isn't over. Just like ZX isn't over. Just like classic wasn't over after 8+RnF. The only series to have ended officially are ZERO and EXE. X7 and X8 are written with X9 in mind.

"Zello?"

Perfectly fine writing. Crappy translation, but not at that point of the game.

Hypershell's magic fish will have a word with you, I quote:

WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALIZE SIGMA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SOUND OF MIND!

And where the title character isn't even accessible at first?  Is that "good writing"? 

Where is there a rule that the main character of the story has to be at the frontlines? There is a rule that the main character of a game has, but not in story. Honestly, X7 did a nice job focusing on X's pacifism in the aftermath of the world having ended, even if it underplayed it because of game format. But, that you desperately want your X playable and that some can't stand his whiny voice actor has nothing and absolutely nothing to do with the story.

[Gauntlet101010]

They said 'might.' Some is, some isn't, and it will change with time.

And this shouldn't be interpreted as "confusing" and "bad writing" ... why? 

Manual. X1. Worrying is the new epoch in robotics that allows X the ability to think and feel and make his own decisions.

The "suffering circuit" is just a name for that specific piece of hardware that's responsible for worrying.

Both the name and the hardware itself are irrelevant. The effect is what's important, and the effect was always known. What difference does it make that you know it has a metal casing and has a name? It's a part of X's psyche, that's what is important.

It's odd that you're saying "It's always been there" when most others say "it's a surprising new development."  I'll go with the majority of others who found it a surprising twist rather than "oh yeah, it's really more of the same."

An irregular virus was revealed to be Sigma, hence Sigma Virus.

I know that and you're missing the point...

Sigma himself said he turned Eurasia into a virus colony.

As I already said, Sigma Virus turning into Zero Virus was important to convey the feeling that Zero was the origin of Sigma Virus. They showed how much of Zero exists in the Sigma Virus.



Uber complicated, you need to have studied biology to understand it.

An unnecessary explanation is unnecessary.    Again, you're missing the point and are needlessly explaining the story.

Each game on its own is well written. With special mention of certain games, such as IHX, X4, X6, XS. Which delivered their themes to near perfection.

When it comes to the game to game storyline, they had multiple plotlines running through the games, all of which amount to one climax; the battle between X and Zero.  From establishing X's unlimited potential in a war of progress, to the dark origins of Zero to the creation of Sigma Virus to their mutual fear of becoming irregulars. All of which leads to their climatic battle at the end of the world. The order of revelations leading to X5 is well written in my opinion, especially for such a limited format.

Now we're somewhere.  So you're taking each game as it's own individual entity.  Fine.  However, I'm looking at them as a series.  And it's the finer points which trip the games up, IMHO.  It's like a decathlon runner tripping on a rock.  The series ran along just fine until they decided to throw a rock in it's path and trip it up.

The X-series as intended by Inafune ends there leaving only the mystery that is Wily's current presence.

And until that story plays out its course, you're best off considering X7+ it's own seperate entity from X1~5+6.

I could accept that (if not agree with it), however the series didn't end there.  Unfortunately Inafune doesn't own MM and doesn't have the final say on what happens.  X6 kinda ruins it further.  It's anticlimactic.  And, from a wider view, unfulfilling.  If X6-8 actually *were* stand along games and not part of the numerical sequence I'd agree with your logic.  However, they are not.  Inafune's intention < Capcom's execution.

As I said earlier, I won't allow for the possibility for the story to play out.  I am not arguing how the story "might" be, I'm arguing what the story is.  And if the story is poorly written, it is poorly written, even if it might one day, be written well. 

Didn't I mention this already? The X-series IS NOT OVER. Just like DASH isn't over. Just like ZX isn't over. Just like classic wasn't over after 8+RnF. The only series to have ended officially are ZERO and EXE. X7 and X8 are written with X9 in mind.

I'll eat my words when X9 comes out and resolves the Wily plotline.  Yes, it'd have to do both.

Perfectly fine writing. Crappy translation, but not at that point of the game.

Hypershell's magic fish will have a word with you, I quote:

WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALIZE SIGMA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SOUND OF MIND!

A badly written game is a badly written game.  I guess it's a bit of a cheap shot, but Capcom left themselves open for it when they wrote the game badly. 

Where is there a rule that the main character of the story has to be at the frontlines?

Yeah, I know it might be an odd thing to expect.

[Blackhook]

[spoiler][spoiler]Where is there a rule that the main character of the story has to be at the frontlines?[/spoiler]
Yeah, I know it might be an odd thing to expect.[/spoiler]
You haven´t watched Naruto?

[Gauntlet101010]

[spoiler][spoiler]Where is there a rule that the main character of the story has to be at the frontlines?[/spoiler]
Yeah, I know it might be an odd thing to expect.[/spoiler]
You haven´t watched Naruto?

Are you kidding?  I love Naruto!  But the X series doesn't have hundreds of episodes to tell it's story.  If it did, then devoting multiple episodes to a character or team is a great strategy.  But it only has a handful of games to work with and they aren't RPGs or anything.  There's a real lack of focus and that's lumped in with "bad writing."

[Align]

I can't really go either way.
If Zan is piecing things together right (certainly there are no contradictions), the background was well-made, but...
..The games themselves are very unclear about things at times, in no small part because of lack of space, relevance and skill in translating.
Ex maverick Zero being infected by a virus, and that virus transmitting to Sigma when he wins.

If Wily had at some point said "You see, even if my new robot fails and someone defeats him, his programming will live on... in the very robot that bested him! And so, my legacy lives on forever, as the only undefeatable etc etc" it'd be adequately subtle while still obvious if you've got all the cards, rather than requiring several parts of the story at once - if you don't know that Sigma is infected by a virus, how would you ever understand why he went bad and Zero went good?

[Rodrigo Shin]

Perfectly fine writing. Crappy translation, but not at that point of the game.

Hypershell's magic fish will have a word with you, I quote:

WHEN WILL PEOPLE REALIZE SIGMA IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE SOUND OF MIND!

Maybe when they finally learn Sigma is mispelling [parasitic bomb] even in the Japanese version to the point of yelling "DAGS" and "BAGS" when he's trying to yell "X".

Here, kids. That wasn't so hard now was it?

[Gauntlet101010]

  I shouldn't have picked on X6.  That's like picking on the mentally disabled.  Next time I'll be more sensitive.

[Rodrigo Shin]

I shouldn't have picked on X6.  That's like picking on the mentally disabled.  Next time I'll be more sensitive.

Whoa! Now that's a fine piece of argument. This is as good as it gets in this thread, I'm sure.

And if you don't work for 1UP, you most definitely need a spot there. That was in the league of the same strawman statements thrown there left and forth.

Oh, and this was written before "FORGIVENESS PLZ" was added to the above post.

[Gauntlet101010]

Too much?

*yanks it out*

Itz goon.

[Zan]

And this shouldn't be interpreted as "confusing" and "bad writing" ... why? 

You're confusing what Three Keys is and what it intended to do. It's not part of the the X-series, it's the ZERO-series and applies solely to the ZERO-series, ZERO3 specifically. But, it's not part of the story as it is being told, is it simply the ideas they had during the development of ZERO3, some if which changed because of conflicts with established canon. It is just food for thought, to make us figure out the stories of Zero and Omega ourselves.

And really, I already mentioned that the principle flaw of ZERO3 is lack of a conclusive origin on Omega and Zero. That's about, I don't want them to spell it all out, but there's just several key lines that could have made it clearer.

An unnecessary explanation is unnecessary.    Again, you're missing the point and are needlessly explaining the story.

And you're missing the point that the concept is simple and explained adequately in the games...

Now we're somewhere.  So you're taking each game as it's own individual entity.  Fine.  However, I'm looking at them as a series.  And it's the finer points which trip the games up, IMHO.  It's like a decathlon runner tripping on a rock.  The series ran along just fine until they decided to throw a rock in it's path and trip it up.

As a series, I view it a multitude of arcs with the aforementioned themes and revelations running across the first 5 games leading into a climax and an open imaginative end. All if which were written fine and addressed at the right time. It's only poor writing of you're entirely hung up on Wily being exposed completely. I choose to accept it as a deliberate mystery that we are to figure out for ourselves. The error is the same as ZERO3's, lots of hints are thrown around, but the final conclusive hint is missing.

With X6, it's both an epilogue and a new beginning, it adds nicely to X5 and furthers the Wily plotline but also sets the stage for further titles such as the ZERO-series and X7+. The X7+ arc, which you might as well call "the AXL-series" is where things suddenly appear to deviate. Yes, it's odd for that to happen with mainstream numbered games, but that's a really odd matter of game development. Lord knows people would beg for X7 to this day if they named these as sidegames.

All in all, just ignore the numbering. The story effectively ends at X5. X7 starts a new story in the same setting, ZERO starts a new story in a new setting. X6 is the bridge game. It's not quite fair to judge all this as a grand whole when it's not intended to be.

And that only leaves good ole Wily as the oddball deliberate mystery of the universe.

It's odd that you're saying "It's always been there" when most others say "it's a surprising new development."  I'll go with the majority of others who found it a surprising twist rather than "oh yeah, it's really more of the same."

I quoted the X1 manuals did I not? It's only a new development because Capcom of America likes to make their own stuff in the manuals. It's not a matter of bad writing from the original source; it's a matter of rewriting. Much like the entire X-series is filled with crappy translation.

I'll eat my words when X9 comes out and resolves the Wily plotline.  Yes, it'd have to do both.

Wait for X12.

A badly written game is a badly written game.  I guess it's a bit of a cheap shot, but Capcom left themselves open for it when they wrote the game badly.

X6 is not badly written, it is badly translated. Sigma however, is not the case in point. X6 made Sigma out of his mind as a result of an inadequate revival, this is shown very nicely in every sentence he speaks. Therefore it's a mark of good writing; they made the guy they intended as having lost his marbles sound like he really did.

For the rest of the game, X6 has amazingly well covered themes. X and Zero's personal growth. Gate and Alia's tragic past. Isoc's mysterious appearance. All of it adds up to a game filled with intrigue and mystery and a lot of depth. When it comes down to it, it's THE best written story in the series.

And your only complaint would be good ole Wily which we'll take into the grave.

Yeah, I know it might be an odd thing to expect.

The gameplay rules of an action series dictate it. Storywise, he's a pacifism and can choose not to fight. There's no written rule that a character can not be focused upon away from the frontlines.

[Gauntlet101010]

You're confusing what Three Keys is and what it intended to do. It's not part of the the X-series, it's the ZERO-series and applies solely to the ZERO-series

The Zero series is a continuiation of the X series.  Capcom is very much able to ruin the X series after the fact.  And it is not just me who is confusing things.  It's the multitudes who write what the suffering circit is and how it relates to the series.  It is more than just me. 

It's very much like how people say Classic series robots can't "think, feel, or make their own decisions" because of the X1 intro.  And don't claim that that hasn't caused a lot of needless confusion.

SO.  Either everyone is an idiot or Capcom messed things up.

And you're missing the point that the concept is simple and explained adequately in the games...

The Maverick Virus.  The Sigma Virus.  The Zero Virus.  The Colony Virus.  Count' em. 



One, two, three, four!  Four viruses!   Hah hah hah. 

You only need two for the story to work - the Maverick virus and the Zero virus.  X5 has 50% more viruses than it needs for the story to work.  Needlessly complicated.  Your explaining how simple it all is doesn't make it have less than four terms when it actually only needs two.  Nor does it eleminate all the other viruses introduced afterwards.

Forget what they actually are and focus on the terms you're meant to understand.  There's four of them.  Half of them don't need to exist.

All in all, just ignore the numbering.

I'll agree with you that this is the best way to understand the series.  Unfortunately, this is not how Capcom has presented the series.  You can say "ignore the numbers" all you like, Capcom still numbered them to begin with.  You're not the one calling the shots.

I quoted the X1 manuals did I not?

And yet that quote does not include the key term "suffering circit" ... so I'm left wondering why you quoted it at all ...

X6 is not badly written, it is badly translated.

  Really!?  So Rockman X6 has a plot revolving around X and deals decicively with the Wily subplot before X7 goes in an entirely new direction!?  Then I must take it back.  X6 fits in well with the themes established in X5 and puts the focus squarely back onto X, where it belongs.  How could I have known Capcom took that game and reworked it into an irrelevant travesty!?

The gameplay rules of an action series dictate it. Storywise, he's a pacifism and can choose not to fight. There's no written rule that a character can not be focused upon away from the frontlines.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Megaman X7.  Obviously you're talking about the game Axl and Zero.  Yeah, you're right, I guess.  With the game being called "Axl and Zero" it only makes sence that the former headliner be put to the sidelines.  It's perfectly in keeping with his character to want to be in the sidelines and not the main action, and it's totally not expected that Megaman X be initially playable in a game called "Axl and Zero".  We should just be grateful that they tossed us a bone and put him in there at all. 

I mean it's not like it's a "Megaman X" game.  I mean, technically it is.  But it's not like his name's in the title or anything stupid like that.  I mean, the game's story has nothing to do with X, so it's only natural that they named it after the real stars.  Naming it after a side character would be as stupid as making a live action Dragonball movie.  totally pointless and doomed to failure.

[Fxeni]

Oi, this can go on for a while. Look, the whole thing with Wily is acceptable (to me at least) considering it's blatantly obvious what they were aiming at (keeping it a secret from the main characters but obvious to the players). That, however, doesn't stop X5 from sucking balls, especially in the story department. The only part of X5 I actually liked and thought was well executed was when Zero remembered his mission... too bad that got shoved aside for the other crappy storyline fork.

As for the viruses... well, the fact that the viruses even exist is bad writing in my opinion, if you ask me. They should have kept up with what they started in X1, that the repliroids were rebelling of their own free will; would have made for a far more interesting story. Be that as it may, though, they obviously didn't go that way. Fact is, the whole virus aspect was at least tolerable until they hit X5. Here, it went into ridiculous territory; the very first scene involving Sigma spreading the virus over the entire planet by dying is absolutely ridiculous from a writing standpoint. I'm not even gonna touch the rest it bugs me so much.

My point is, everything that's needed to understand the story is right there, but it doesn't stop it from being bad. The only time any confusion truly arose was when the sourcebook was badly misinterpreted and bullshit was spread all over the internet because of it.

[Gauntlet101010]

Yeah, they lost a real winning theme when they introduced viruses into the X series.  There's still Mavericks that choose to be Mavericks, but it was really overshadowed by viruses.

[Zan]

It's very much like how people say Classic series robots can't "think, feel, or make their own decisions" because of the X1 intro.  And don't claim that that hasn't caused a lot of needless confusion.

Only because the western world didn't have access to the proper X1 manual. The introduction of worrying adequately explains the subtle difference between the two types of robots.

The Maverick Virus.  The Sigma Virus.  The Zero Virus.  The Colony Virus.  Count' em. 

All the above are descriptive terms, you can understand wholly from the words what they are. It's neither random, nor in another language. The introduction of a descriptive term is better writing than leaving it unnamed or incomprehensibly named.

Furthermore, all four terms are entirely necessary within the flow from 1 to 5 that exist within the series.

The Irregular Virus term is general, it refers to all that fall within the same category; a viral pathogen that causes irregularity. This term needed to exist before the grand revelation of X3 gave a specific identity to this pathogen.

Because they would also coin the Zero Virus term in the future, the non-specific descriptor really doesn't work within the story anymore. As such, the introduction of the the former nicely leads into the latter to avoid confusion.

Therefore THREE need to exist with one never even used within X5.

The Colony Virus term was coined because another virus was needed to change the Sigma Virus into the Zero Virus.   If it wasn't another virus, it would have been any other plot device. They simply opted for a virus to implicate biological virus merger into a new and stronger form. A valid concept that has basis in the real world. Because they used that, the fourth term was naturally coined.

But I have to ask you when did CONCEPT become equal to WRITING? The WRITING of X1~X5 perfectly elaborates on their CONCEPT even if the concept is convoluted to you. Writing is the means by which the concept is communicated to you, but it does not define the concept itself.

Either you're talking of the concept being wrong, or you're talking about the writing being wrong. Do you feel the concept is confusing or that the game brought it in a confusing matter? Since you acknowledged you understand it, the writing did a good job in communicating it to you. Therefore, only the concept is bad, not the writing.

And yet that quote does not include the key term "suffering circit" ... so I'm left wondering why you quoted it at all ...

Are you just deliberately playing dumb, or what? The "suffering circuit" is the piece of hardware responsible worrying.  THAT is what's new in RZOCW. When it comes to the relation with the virus, that relation is never once explained in RZOCW, just alluded to. X1 itself explains worrying as the most important new feature of true free will and all subsequent games explain the virus in relation to that free will. The explanation is in the games, not in RZOCW.

So, the only new thing between RZOCW and the X-series is the new amazing grand epic revelation development that X who is a robot has named circuitry responsible for that feature! Wow, never would have thought a robot had circuitry.   And that circuit even has a NAME?!

Beyond that, the text that speaks of the suffering circuit says everything that should already be known. Reading it as  anything else is just taking it completely out of its context. Your confusion like everyone else's lies with mistranslation and misinterpretation.

omg Really!?  So Rockman X6 has a plot revolving around X and deals decicively with the Wily subplot before X7 goes in an entirely new direction!?  Then I must take it back.  X6 fits in well with the themes established in X5 and puts the focus squarely back onto X, where it belongs.  How could I have known Capcom took that game and reworked it into an irrelevant travesty!?

Again, when did concept and writing become each other's equals?

RockmanX6's story has certain themes that it explored in depth. If you can't pick out these themes and how these relate to the series as a whole you obviously do not understand X6's story. Even the mistranslated game makes all of them clear enough. X6's themes further the setting, focus on both X and Zero,explore the side characters of Gate and Alia. Even good ole Wily is accounted for.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Megaman X7.  Obviously you're talking about the game Axl and Zero.  Yeah, you're right, I guess.  With the game being called "Axl and Zero" it only makes sence that the former headliner be put to the sidelines.  It's perfectly in keeping with his character to want to be in the sidelines and not the main action, and it's totally not expected that Megaman X be initially playable in a game called "Axl and Zero".  We should just be grateful that they tossed us a bone and put him in there at all.

I'm not talking about a 'game' to begin with. I'm talking about a story. The demand to have Rockman X playable is a gameplay one. Storywise, there isn't even a PLAYABLE to begin with. Stories are read, not played. Storywise there's just a setting and characters and interaction between those. What you're demanding is imposing gameplay aspects onto the story.

If you say X7's flaw is not having its story adhere to gameplay, then you're admitting that the principle issue with writing in Rockman is format; they simply can't break the story away from the limitations of the game format, and if they do it is an outrage. You always need thematic minor characters in thematic minor areas to get their asses kicked by the main characters. You always have the matter of slow yearly releases and fickle fans negating any value to a long term plan.

I mean it's not like it's a "Megaman X" game.  I mean, technically it is.  But it's not like his name's in the title or anything stupid like that.

So, is the name based on the story or is the story based on the name? Based on that order, one is wrong and the other isn't. I feel that if you interpret the title as being about the character X, the the title is wrong, not the story. I don't consider it a real flaw that X is not the most focused on. That's not to say that I wouldn't like seeing X as having more focus.

Instead of seeing the title MegaManX as implicating the focus on the character of the same name, I see the title emphasizing the setting in which the story occurs; the setting is the one that came about as a result of the creation of the character with the same name. The name MegaManX also carries a lot of other meanings that are carried in the themes throughout the series, none of those themes however requires X to have the most focus.

[Gaia]

Woo, look at that rant. Zan definately has free time, then.. can you imply Sol Titantion's story other than being what once was a part of a duo?

[Gauntlet101010]

Only because the western world didn't have access to the proper X1 manual. The introduction of worrying adequately explains the subtle difference between the two types of robots.

So, basically, the X1 intro is "badly written" and "confusing."  "Incomprehensible" if you don't have the manual.  All of which might be resolved if they had actually included "worrying" (or, perhapse mroe accurately, "worrying without bias") to X1's intro.  But they didn't.  And we're not arguing what they might have done here.

You say "worrying", but that's also confusing when you consider that characters, other than X, also worry.  "Worrying" is not synonimous with "thinking."  And, even then, other characters still think.

Furthermore, all four terms are entirely necessary within the flow from 1 to 5 that exist within the series.

Not really.  We're going in circles now, but I think you're in the minority when you say there isn't too many viruses in the X series and that it isn't confusing.

Writing is the means by which the concept is communicated to you, but it does not define the concept itself.

"Writing" includes all elements pertaining to the story including concept as well as the actual words as you read them.  

The "suffering circuit" is the piece of hardware responsible worrying.  THAT is what's new in RZOCW.

Well, not quite.  I have trouble understanding why you can't see a new element in there when everybody else seems to.  It was pretty big news back in the day.

Your confusion like everyone else's lies with mistranslation and misinterpretation.

Well, now ... whose fault would that be?  Ours for misinterpreting the facts or Capcom's for failing to convey them well?  Because right now I'm looking at Capcom.  Either they failed to properly label the material in the source or they failed to translate it here ... I mean, either way it's their fault for not feeding us the peices of the puzzle we need to understand the story.

Again, when did concept and writing become each other's equals?

RockmanX6's story has certain themes that it explored in depth. If you can't pick out these themes and how these relate to the series as a whole you obviously do not understand X6's story. Even the mistranslated game makes all of them clear enough. X6's themes further the setting, focus on both X and Zero,explore the side characters of Gate and Alia. Even good ole Wily is accounted for.

Yeah, an anticlimactic ending to Wily's story sure is an example of awesome writing ....

Poor concept factors in a major way into poor writing.  Sorry, but if you only have [parasitic bomb] to work with the finished product will probably turn out like [parasitic bomb].  I'm attacking every facet of "writing" here; not just Capcom's poor communication skills.  "Writing" includes things like plot, characterization, themes, and (yes) concept.  Some of this is affected by game mechanics and editorial decisions.  But that doesn't matter.  Whether it's the writer or the editor or the game designer, the decisions made ultimately affect the plot and are subject to judgment.

I'm so sorry that I can't take the marvelous writing that I'm sure is in the Rockman game into account.  I'm certain it's both captivating and full of nuance.  Maybe the Japanese players / people who can read Japanese were moved to tears when they play the game.  I can only shake my head at what we're missing.  But, and you'll forgive me, I think I'll go by capcom's official translations (which I can actually read for myself).  They are all approved by CoJ and are 100% official.  Since Capcom is soooooo good at everything, you don't suppose the story will be too mangled by their translation staff do you?

Instead of seeing the title MegaManX as implicating the focus on the character of the same name, I see the title emphasizing the setting in which the story occurs; the setting is the one that came about as a result of the creation of the character with the same name. The name MegaManX also carries a lot of other meanings that are carried in the themes throughout the series, none of those themes however requires X to have the most focus.

Unless the setting of the story is in a city called "Megaman X" I just can't agree with you.  Unfortunately, they didn't use the name "Megaman X" in a sort of brand capacity (like "Megaman Zero" or "Megaman Legends") ... the game isn't "Megaman Axl" or "Megaman X: Axle's quest" ... the title is "Megaman X7".  And in "Megaman X7" "Megaman X" is a side character.  Moreover, as you admit, it's best to think of it as an entirely separate story ... which it isn't presented as.  Capcom fails.

Sorry to say this, but poor translations can factor into "poor writing", if only for the English side.  

[Zan]

So, basically, the X1 intro is "badly written" and "confusing."  "Incomprehensible" if you don't have the manual.  All of which might be resolved if they had actually included "worrying" (or, perhapse mroe accurately, "worrying without bias") to X1's intro.  But they didn't.  And we're not arguing what they might have done here.

But you SHOULD have the manual. It's part of the package you bought.

Don't blame the writers for crappy localizers.

Well, not quite.  I have trouble understanding why you can't see a new element in there when everybody else seems to.  It was pretty big news back in the day.

It was big news because people believed a connection between the Virus and X amounts to: OMG DR. LIGHT MADE THE VIRUS. Which isn't true no matter how you see it. If anything, that part's big revelation is that Zero has a 'suffering circuit'. Which by account of what that circuit and Zero actually are, was hinted at in the games already.

Well, now ... whose fault would that be?  Ours for misinterpreting the facts or Capcom's for failing to convey them well?  Because right now I'm looking at Capcom.  Either they failed to properly label the material in the source or they failed to translate it here ... I mean, either way it's their fault for not feeding us the peices of the puzzle we need to understand the story.

It's the fault of two things. Capcom of America's butchering of the series and the fans inability to read a basic disclaimer on canon.

Yeah, an anticlimactic ending to Wily's story sure is an example of awesome writing ....

That's the problem, you're blaming X6 for something it has nothing to do with. X6 was never intended to be an ending, rather it's a new beginning after the end. It's all the later games which fail at addressing Wily and should be blamed for it.

I'm so sorry that I can't take the marvelous writing that I'm sure is in the Rockman game into account.  I'm certain it's both captivating and full of nuance.

Except this is about X6 specifically, not about the series as a whole. X6 as a stand alone is amongst the best written titles in the series. It's just that nobody seems to take it seriously because of the super poor translation.

They are all approved by CoJ and are 100% official.

CoJ does not aprove of the type of blatant fabrications Capcom's been throwing our way since X1. Nor do they approve of their games being presented with extremely bad grammar.

"This is impossible! The prophecy must be fulfilled!" is so obviously the same thing as  "Being defeated by the robotic memento of Right.. such regret..."

Lots of similar changed lines throughout the whole of the X-series, not to mention entire manuals being rewritten.
Rewriting. That's the word. This isn't translation, it's rewriting.

[Bag of Magic Food]

Well, there are good rewrites and bad rewrites.

[Gauntlet101010]

But you SHOULD have the manual. It's part of the package you bought.

Don't blame the writers for crappy localizers.

It wasn't in the Megaman X manual.  And, that still means the game itself is badly written.  Excusing the game's shoddy dialogue because the manual conveys the real idea is a pretty poor defense.  Especially if the game doesn't even give a full idea of who it is they're introducing.  Considering how much c onfusion resulted / still occasionally results from that one line, I just can't let a manual I can't even read cover it's ass.

It was big news because people believed a connection between the Virus and X amounts to: OMG DR. LIGHT MADE THE VIRUS. Which isn't true no matter how you see it.

Your overstatement of fact doesn't mean Light's suffering circuit had nothing to do with it.  Moreover, the misunderstanding could have a lot to do with Capcom intentionally making it difficult to understand.  Which also falls into the classification of "bad writing".

It's the fault of two things. Capcom of America's butchering of the series and the fans inability to read a basic disclaimer on canon.

Well, Capcom's Capcom.  Do I blame Capcom USA for bad writing in the X series?  Absolutely.  As for the fans, you'd have to ask the guy who translated that whether he's an idiot or not.  However, it's inclusion is pretty bad considering it messed up understanding of the series.

That's the problem, you're blaming X6 for something it has nothing to do with. X6 was never intended to be an ending, rather it's a new beginning after the end. It's all the later games which fail at addressing Wily and should be blamed for it.

X6 was intended to be the sequel to X5.  That's why it has the "6" after the "X".  As such I can totally call shenanigans if it's not a good sequel.

It's just that nobody seems to take it seriously because of the super poor translation.

That and it's place as a non sequiter after X5.  

CoJ does not aprove of the type of blatant fabrications Capcom's been throwing our way since X1. Nor do they approve of their games being presented with extremely bad grammar.

Maybe someone should tell CoJ that...  

Lots of similar changed lines throughout the whole of the X-series, not to mention entire manuals being rewritten.

Yes, and rewritten BADLY at times, right?

[Zan]

X6 was intended to be the sequel to X5.  That's why it has the "6" after the "X".  As such I can totally call shenanigans if it's not a good sequel.

That and it's place as a non sequiter after X5. 

But X6 is also a good sequel to X5 in every way, it's X7 that isn't a good sequel to X6 and X5.

Yes, and rewritten BADLY at times, right?

"Used to be a comrade of yours." Need I say more?

[Gauntlet101010]

But X6 is also a good sequel to X5 in all respects, it's X7 that isn't a good sequel to X6 and X5.

Perhaps by your estimation.  Maybe my standards are too high.