Topic: Alternate Routes for X series

[Hypershell]

why the [tornado fang] do you think we're using the word?

Now THAT is a good censor.  There's nothing like using special weapons as swear words. 

without Zero having killed Colonel, then there would be no mad with grief Iris

That's not actually true, it's just the easiest answer in the eyes of the fanbase.  Marshmallow Man and I have argued to hell and back over the finer details of what's going on in Iris's head, and there is really a huge lack of detail in that scenario.  While, yes, she is grief-stricken and not right in the head, there's any number of ways to spin that besides merely vengeance.  And I don't buy that being the only thing on her mind, if it was at all, given her dialogue at death.

Honestly I don't think Iris herself knew what she was trying to accomplish, besides holding onto whatever she had left of her brother.

that forces Zero to Kill her

Zero did NOT kill Iris, he merely failed to save her, or to foresee how far his actions would push her.  Iris died by her own hands; installing Colonel's chip which is too contradictory to her own traits for her to properly function (the entire reason the two of them exist as separate Reploids).  Her body is intact, her death was internal.

Take note that you DO NOT need to lay a finger on Iris to win the battle against her; she ejects the crystal on her own if Zero is in critical condition.  Saying that Zero attacked her is like saying he took a saber to Ciel's head during the Golem battle; it is dependent solely on the player.

[RMX]

They should've at least brought back 'watermelon' for filtering this word.

[Zan]

That's not actually true, it's just the easiest answer in the eyes of the fanbase.  Marshmallow Man and I have argued to hell and back over the finer details of what's going on in Iris's head, and there is really a huge lack of detail in that scenario.  While, yes, she is grief-stricken and not right in the head, there's any number of ways to spin that besides merely vengeance.  And I don't buy that being the only thing on her mind, if it was at all, given her dialogue at death.

I wouldn't say it's easiest answer, rather, it's the most dramatic. Iris would have witnessed X's internal struggle, whereas with Zero, she would have witnessed cold blood and warrior's pride. The manga takes some liberties with X4's story, but it definitely was epic to see Zero slice Colonel in two, followed by Iris, who was forced to watch, to be overcome by shock and transforming into the ultimate soldier.

All in all, I think it definitely works to mess with Zero's "I won't hesistate, if an enemy appears, I will destroy it" mentality. For the ideal of X's human - repliroid utopia, Colonel has to be eliminated without hesitation. In turn he is in conflict with the ideal of Iris' Repliroid-only world. Zero is torn between the two people he believes in and is unable to save the girl who couldn't fight on her own without destroying herself.

Of course, even if X was to kill Colonel, it is still the same ideal that results in Iris' inevitable death. "What am I fighting for?", X and Zero just focus on two aspects of this ideal; the kind-hearted side and the cold-blooded side. Dependant on who kills Colonel, Iris' emotions go from straightforward shock and revenge, to torn between the two people she loved to pondering about these ideals and dreams. The girl wants the Repliroid-only world, but the utopia in which humans and repliroids can live together is also beautiful. The people she loves are alike, warriors driven by pride and without hesitation. The man whose ideal is the strongest is like herself, full of hesitation but still forced to fight. The latter is a lot like the relationship between Zero - Ciel - X, but thankfully Ciel and X's ideals align, avoiding a repeat of the Iris tragedy.

For the purpose of all the aforementioned complicated emotions being kept in tact, I would think it'd be best to go with an XS' style scenario of X and Zero vs Colonel and then splitting up to face Double and Iris, as with Berkana and Gareth. This adds an additional layer of depth to the plot, as it was Iris herself that witnessed X and Zero's trust and teamwork firsthand.

The above scenario also mirrors the XS's situation for X and Zero. Berkana and Double were both cases in which X did not hesitate to fight. Whereas Zero was faced with Gareth, who is much more questionable and actually is a lot like Colonel.

However, an XS scenario for X4 really requires a lot of rewriting, the game's cut scenes are character exclusive, most notable being Zero still at Hunter Base after X took care of Sigma. Still, with the way later games refer to the Repliforce incident, it really seems to be most likely.

[Hypershell]

You know, I actually hadn't thought of what Iris's thoughts on X fighting against Colonel would be.  I just thought it'd be fun to F*@#! with the fan-based assumptions as to why she is confronting Zero, is all.  As I said earlier, I don't buy from Iris's death dialogue that she is fighting for vengeance, or at the very least there's more to it than that.  She still wants to be with Zero.  She absolutely refused to let go of her brother.  And, one would think, she would know that installing her brother's chip is not going to end well for her.  There's a lot to consider there.  I don't see anybody who's intent on avenging the death of a loved one asks the killer to live with them after they've failed.  But when I say it's the "easiest" answer, I mean easiest for the casual observer to accept, the same as Zero killing her is.  They brush over the finer details and go with their first instinct, regardless of what dialogue clashes with it or what background information there is to consider.  Half the fanbase doesn't even know that Iris had anything of Colonel's during that battle, and nearly all works of fanfiction that revisit the scenario ignore it completely.

As for X and Double, I wouldn't say that he didn't hesitate.  X was attacked and thus defended himself (this is not the first time an ally-turned-Maverick came at him, so he knows from experience not to screw around, to say nothing of the Dragoon-assisted massacre being fresh in his memory).  He really had no clue what was going on, and only after the fight was over did he realize to what extent his trust had been betrayed.

However, an XS scenario for X4 really requires a lot of rewriting, the game's cut scenes are character exclusive, most notable being Zero still at Hunter Base after X took care of Sigma. Still, with the way later games refer to the Repliforce incident, it really seems to be most likely.

There's also the question of how the confrontation with Colonel at the Memorial Hall went.  I view that as a bit of a turning point in Zero's attitude towards the fight against Repliforce.  After Iris interferes with that fight, Zero is less cold to her than he was previously.  He applies a sense of reason, both to her and to Colonel, rather than it solely being a matter of duty as it was beforehand.  But Iris doesn't show up when it's X against Colonel.  And Colonel is the one who is supposed to be responding to her, but realistically, he'd be royally screwed if both X and Zero were at Memorial Hall.

[Mega Greasy Houdini Tek 54321]

There's also the question of how the confrontation with Colonel at the Memorial Hall went.  I view that as a bit of a turning point in Zero's attitude towards the fight against Repliforce.  After Iris interferes with that fight, Zero is less cold to her than he was previously.  He applies a sense of reason, both to her and to Colonel, rather than it solely being a matter of duty as it was beforehand.  But Iris doesn't show up when it's X against Colonel.  And Colonel is the one who is supposed to be responding to her, but realistically, he'd be royally screwed if both X and Zero were at Memorial Hall.

Perhaps X only fought Colonel once and Zero fought him multiple times. In X's ending I noticed they were outside fighting and the fight with Zero took place in Memorial Hall, so perhaps at some point they actually did have an encounter with Colonel. When X encountered Colonel, I wouldn't put past him that he hesitated to kill Colonel, or maybe just wanted to disable him and not kill him. As for Zero, he charged at Colonel in Memorial Hall. I say Zero encounter Colonel twice, once at the Hall and again at the Space Port as it was personal. Also there was no cutscene for Space Port, so I'm willing to bet Zero fought Colonel there. And I say both X and Zero boarded the Final weapon and went their separate paths. Zero saw Iris aboard the Final Weapon as she holds what's left of her brother and stops her (hence some of the battle scratches), however her color coating was pale which shows that she is dying internally (There weren't any fatal wounds so it had to be obviously internal). I'm gonna say that Zero fought both Colonel and Iris for it builds up a tramatic effect on Zero since he was friends with Colonel and had a thing for Iris. X on the other hand took on Double and possibly Sigma since Zero probably couldn't take on Sigma after what happend.

[Zan]

You know, on Zero facing Sigma, I'm thinking it really works a lot nicer to have Sigma's reveal occur before his battle with Iris. He shrugs off Sigma's words, but is then put face to face with the evil that is own existence. Zero questioning his very reason for fighting retreats to Hunter Base and trusts X to defeat the General and Sigma. When X contacts him, the message hits him all the harder, because he has the exact same doubts about himself.

And then X5 happens with its two way accusations of going irregular.

You know, I actually hadn't thought of what Iris's thoughts on X fighting against Colonel would be.

How disappointing, start thinking about Iris now! No, not in that way.

Either way, I'm wondering how much Iris herself actually knows about the Ultimate Soldier project, or other people for that matter. There's some serious potential for additional mind screwing by Sigma.

[Protoman Blues]

I'm sure this has been asked or answered before, but does the X4 separate X & ZERO stories happen at the same time, or are they alternate universes or something?

[Zan]

I'm sure this has been asked or answered before, but does the X4 separate X & ZERO stories happen at the same time, or are they alternate universes or something?

They're parallel stories with some overlap. X can't face Colonel, General, Sigma, if Zero already did it and vice versa. Just like Zero can't be at Hunter Base for his own ending and the Iris - Colonel Memorial hall event can't happen if X faces Colonel. But other scenes happen in both stories, even if they're only shown in one. General - Sigma meeting, Zero's dream, General's announcement and Double's betrayal are examples of those.

In context of sequels however, one story has to be favored over the other, but we're not given real hint which happened. Unlike say, X5 to X6, where only Zero's ending works. And X6 to X7 where the X's ending without Zero obviously didn't happen. So, we have to go with some odd combination of both stories.

Very similar to ZX>ZXA, but those remain entire exclusive, because even though the secondary character exists, that one never becomes a Rockman and is not shown at the same time as the other primary character. If you choice Aile, Vent stays back home and is never shown, vice versa too. Grey and Ashe continue from Aile and Vent's story respectively, if you choose Grey he becomes a Rockman, Ashe completes her intro but never becomes a Rockman and vice versa. Sometimes, we have to deal with backstory that applies to both stories yet is only shown in one. Other times you just have scenes that just can't happen in one story but can happen in the other.

[Protoman Blues]

They're parallel stories with some overlap. X can't face Colonel, General, Sigma, if Zero already did it and vice versa. Just like Zero can't be at Hunter Base for his own ending and the Iris - Colonel Memorial hall event can't happen if X faces Colonel.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, technically if X faces Colonel, then Zero might not have ever had to kill Iris?

[Zan]

Zero never kills Iris to begin with. He fails to save her from killing herself, there's a difference.

Either way, Iris always gets herself killed, no matter who does what in X4, hence the ending of X5 and the battle with Pegacion. The Double and Iris scenes both happen, even though they're at the same place at the same time in the game. All the same, X is said to have killed General and Zero is said to have fought Colonel at some point. That's what I mean with there being a combination story according to the sequels.

[Protoman Blues]

Zero never kills Iris to begin with. He fails to save her from killing herself, there's a difference.

Either way, Iris always gets herself killed, no matter who does what in X4, hence the ending of X5 and the battle with Pegacion. The Double and Iris scenes both happen, even though they're at the same place at the same time in the game. All the same, X is said to have killed General and Zero is said to have fought Colonel at some point. That's what I mean with there being a combination story according to the sequels.

Ahhhhhhh, okay.

You know, a MHX4 would be an interesting thing to see! 

[Bag of Magic Food]

Zero never kills Iris to begin with. He fails to save her from killing herself, there's a difference.

No, you're wrong, Zero mercilessly slaughters Iris, it says so in this video description


That's a lotta door

[Satoryu]

No, you're wrong, Zero mercilessly slaughters Iris, it says so in this video description

self promotion for the win.

[Zan]

No, you're wrong, Zero mercilessly slaughters Iris, it says so in this video description


That's a lotta door

Iris != a crystal

[Mega Greasy Houdini Tek 54321]

Ahhhhhhh, okay.

You know, a MHX4 would be an interesting thing to see! 

That would be nice! Along with an animated movie like the first. It'd also be nice if they have an art gallery to view and other incentives, but alas, it is not to be...

[Bag of Magic Food]

Iris != a crystal

Well that's your opinion.

[Hypershell]

No, it's fact, if you had called an attack then you would have won.

Uh, I mean, the crystal hovers above Iris before she transforms.  It's not her.  All signs point to the crystal being Colonel's memory chip.

When X encountered Colonel, I wouldn't put past him that he hesitated to kill Colonel, or maybe just wanted to disable him and not kill him. As for Zero, he charged at Colonel in Memorial Hall.

It's extremely hard to disable someone when they are intent on fighting to the bitter end.  When they're threatening you're life, sometimes you don't have the luxury of avoiding the same in retaliation.  You think either X or Zero wouldn't have spared Dragoon for further questioning if they could have?

Zero lunging at Colonel was before the bulk of Iris's pleas.  As I mentioned in my last post, he grows a lot more hesitant as the game goes on.  Memorial Hall, to me, reflects Zero's X1-3 attitude of shooting/slashing first and asking questions later.  Since then, however, he tends to instead let enemies ramble before taking them down.

I'm gonna say that Zero fought both Colonel and Iris for it builds up a tramatic effect on Zero since he was friends with Colonel and had a thing for Iris.

Well, Zero DID fight Colonel at some point, that's established in X5.  But that could be either Memorial Hall or Spaceport, which one is not specified, and Skiver's dialogue works either way (better, I think, with Memorial Hall).

But as for traumatic effect, Colonel was neither the first nor the last friend/ally that Zero had to cut down in the line of duty.  Mac, Blast Hornet, Web Spider, Spider/Redips, and Elpizo all come to mind.  The impact on Iris is what Zero's concern was, which he outright states before the Spaceport battle.  Likewise, Iris is the source of Zero's remorse in X5.  He can shrug off discussion of Colonel easily enough.

No, not in that way.

Aw, that's no fun!

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, technically if X faces Colonel, then Zero might not have ever had to kill Iris?

Iris likely would have faced Zero anyway because she wants him to stop fighting against Repliforce, both for the sake of her Reploid-only fantasy and so that Zero doesn't get killed in the process.  The problem is that she "goes out of control" upon installing Colonel's chip.

[Zan]

But as for traumatic effect, Colonel was neither the first nor the last friend/ally that Zero had to cut down in the line of duty.

I don't think Zero can be traumatized by anyone but Iris, and even then. Colonel's death would only affect Iris.

In that regard, the most traumatic would be to have Zero do it, even if Zero's best friend comes close.
Which reminds me, you know how I mentioned X4's manga being epic?

See for yourself:
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/9522/x4manga1.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/442/x4manga2.jpg

That's Iris watching the battle in the first page's top left panel. The next page has a huge Ride Armor looming over Zero as a result

[Gotham Ranger]

Jesus Christ, and here I thought playing the game was enough to understand

[Flame]

Zan, would you happen to have full scans of this manga?
also Hypershell, dont forget Shadow.

[xemiroth]

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[xemiroth]

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[xemiroth]

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