Most RPGs I know of are at there core are 'save the world' arcs where you have to get such and such Macguffin to defeat some evil overlord dude or some cosmic horror but there is also some like Xenogears, Xenosaga and Shin Tegami Tensei where the plot is so complex you need to play all three games to figure it out or you will get lost. While mosts JRPGs and WRPGs have a huge backstory in from of them, there are games like Earthbound and Paper Mario that show yoiu don't necessarly need a complex storyline to be a fun game. My question to the RPG fandom is, do RPGs really need complicated plots to be good games?
Depends on the game, I suppose. You could make it discrete plots with the same characters, or you could make it a really long one superimposed over a course of two or three games if the series proves to be a big hit.
You kinda would have to define "complex", seeings how even the supposed simple storylines tend to have a twist or two (and then you have games such as MegaMan which are simple unto themselves but get extremely complex when tying them all together; so in light of that how does one classify Command Mission?).
On the whole I'd say no, but it does help. It kinda depends on how the gameplay and combat system go. There's something to be said for a nice, epic story. But there are other ways of selling an RPG, certainly.
Generally I'd say... no.
The Mario RPGs prove this. They're extremely light on story but so much fun. High replay value too.
Complex storylines aren't a necessity. If anything, the complexity can take away from the game. If it gets too complicated, then it's likely to lose people's interest.
Quote from: Fox McCloud on May 06, 2010, 12:35:43 AM
Complex storylines aren't a necessity. If anything, the complexity can take away from the game. If it gets too complicated, then it's likely to lose people's interest.
^QFT
Quote from: Acid on May 06, 2010, 12:35:31 AM
Generally I'd say... no.
The Mario RPGs prove this. They're extremely light on story but so much fun. High replay value too.
Same with the linear monster breeding RPGs, while they have the simple plot to kick the evil organization's ass, but it doesn't have a huge complex plot that doesn't require 5+ games to play to understand.
Same with the SRPGs. They can be fun, and the characters are quite loveable (SRW proves this).
I think the main factor should be "Is this RPG's story enjoyable?" because it can be as complex as possible but if it's just boring then it means nothing. But since that's not the issue at hand:
Complexity in an RPG story is fine however it can't be pushed too far, like say into Death Note Xanatos Roulette style absurdity, then it just becomes dull and loses any tension it could possibly have had.
Generally though i play RPG's like Skies of Arcadia and the Mario RPG's so i don't really know too much on complex stories in RPG's.
Well it kinda depends on the series. A game with more serious story-telling like Xenogears/Xenosaga (even though I've never played any of the Xeno games before) would probably need a complex storyline that would continue onto a another game until it reaches its end, but then there are some games like Mario and Earthbound/Mother where the storyline should be more fun, even though Earthbound has some tragic elements. Like right now I'm playing Super Mario RPG on my Wii and I find myself enjoying the game itself more over the story.
[spoiler=Mother 3 Spoiler](i.e. the death of Lucas' mother)[/spoiler]
But if we're talking about a game's storyline expanding over two or more games, I've yet to played that many games that does that. Before Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World, the original Tales of Symphonia had kinda of a complex story (my memory of the game's story is fuzzy since I haven't played it in a long time) but it didn't go onto another game until the sequel was made. So really, to me, it all depends on the series itself.
I'd say no too, though I always appreciate games like Star Ocean series for the depth of dictionary entries. I could waste hours reading it.
Not at all, to be honest, complex plots turn me away from RPG's, thats why I've never played Final Fantasy of any sort. Because I'd rather play Chrono Trigger (Which despite its length is fun enough.) and the DS Geass game, not to forget the Mario RPG's.
Oddly enough, even though I know the story to the FF games I have played, I don't play them for that. I play them for the battle systems that invariably change from game to game.
Quote from: borockman on May 06, 2010, 03:43:17 AMI'd say no too, though I always appreciate games like Star Ocean series for the depth of dictionary entries. I could waste hours reading it.
oh my god are you me
136 hours on my file for SOTET because of the [tornado fang]ing dictionary entries. I really enjoy how they're written, too. It mocks everyone.
Well, the main reason I read it is to remove the green text really. :D
and I only skim read the techno babble entries, so I might not be as hardcore as you. XD
YES ALL RPGS NEED COMPLICATED PLOTS, SO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO PONDER WHILE YOU LEVEL UP.
Quote from: borockman on May 06, 2010, 05:39:33 AMWell, the main reason I read it is to remove the green text really. :D
and I only skim read the techno babble entries, so I might not be as hardcore as you. XD
oh my god he is me
So Nova is me, and Spectro is borock... wow.
RPM: Where Alternate Selves Meet
Spectro, are you by chance a type of person who hate to see "new" icon in any RPG's menu?
Quote from: borockman on May 06, 2010, 06:23:18 AMSpectro, are you by chance a type of person who hate to see "new" icon in any RPG's menu?
Yes.
This drove me up the wall and through the ceiling in KHII.
To think I found someone who shares my habit here. *high five*
But I'm sure we're not the only one, right!
....right?
It drives me up the wall anywhere... even here! :P
Incidentally, I keep clicking on the "MARK ALL MESSAGES AS READ" button because there is no option to ax out the new posts in each board.
Now that's a bit extreme, but I'll always try to remove the new symbol wherever I can.
Yes, even with the dreaded "click thread and then exit without seeing the content." method.
That's dreaded? :(
I think RPG's are fine without complex plots. I also think RPG's are fine
with complex plots, to an extent. There have been almost none that have made me wringe in incomprehensibility . I'm fine with saving the world, I've done it atleast a thousand times already, what's a thousand more? As long as the game presents itself in a entertaining and engaging manner, I think I would be fine with almost no plot. I bet most of you would agree with me if you're a fan of classic megaman, or if you can remember playing some of the third, second, heck even first generation of consoles.
Thankfully though, there are some games that provide us with a plot that is complicated, but is fun to speculate about with other people. It would be a bit ho-hum if there were a world of games with little or no plot, and it would also be a labyrinth-like world if all games needed a 10-page manual to tell the basic story, with 3+ games to figure out the whole story.
Quote from: Kallen on May 06, 2010, 04:24:08 AM
Not at all, to be honest, complex plots turn me away from RPG's, thats why I've never played Final Fantasy of any sort. Because I'd rather play Chrono Trigger (Which despite its length is fun enough.) and the DS Geass game, not to forget the Mario RPG's.
I think FF5 and Final Fantasy Mystic Quest would be enjoyable for you then. To be honest, there's not quite as much story in 5 as there is in 4 and 6. It's not really complicated.
Mystic Quest's overworld and battle system is different from the rest.
I think if you can understand Code Geass's story, you'd be fine with these two. Probably with FF3 too. 3's story isn't really complicated either, but it does have its frustrating moments, being that it's a Famicom-era game.
Whether or not an RPG needs a plot is dependent on what it is, in my opinion. To explain what I mean, if it's from a series like Mario, which, for the most part, isn't really big on plot but big on gameplay, then it doesn't. Wheras if it's a series with somewhat poor controls, the story may just be what keeps people playing.
Quote from: Spectro on May 06, 2010, 06:33:53 AM
Yes.
This drove me up the wall and through the ceiling in KHII.
...(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk122/good_mate_jones/fffuuuu.jpg)
I cannot stress just how much i share that sentiment. I
hated that about KHII, checking the menu every time something happens to get rid of that god damn "New!" icon so it didn't stack up and take ages to get rid of all of them.
Or you could do that at the very end of the game. ^^;
That has already been pointed out to me but seriously i don't like going through every single file at the end of the game XD It takes aaaaaaaaages to get through it all.
I drew the line at FFXII because it just throws EVERYTHING at you and to make matters worse all of the files are just flat out boring like the rest of the game.
Complex is not good, so no. Hidden depths, sure, like motivations for characters that go unmentioned outside of the in-game database of knowledge, whether this is an actual database or just rumors in a bar.
But complexity for complexity's sake just means you get ridiculous stuff like "oh X's just pretending to be a bad guy so you'll attack Y, but Y is counting on him to do that and reveals it to you, but only because C told him to since C thinks he's the puppet master, but in reality etc etc etc" that makes your head spin.
Quote from: Rayl on May 06, 2010, 01:28:55 PMI drew the line at FFXII because it just throws EVERYTHING at you and to make matters worse all of the files are just flat out boring like the rest of the game.
They tried too hard to make it National [tornado fang]ing Geographic for Dalmascans or something.
Monsters are actually the most interesting aspect from FFXII honestly.
Too bad it's too much a hassle to find rare monsters.
I like dem nice plots in mah rpgs.
Tough I do like, when plots are simple, but stil have some element of surprise.
Or at least are humorous, like the already mentioned Mario RPGs.
Yeah, it bugs me in KHII, them new icons. Meh...
The best Final Fantasy is still the first one.
- PUT TOGETHER BAND OF BROS
- HEAVY GRINDAN
- RAIN DOWN TERROR UPON THE LAND
- SAVE EVERYTHING
That's really all you need. Unless they're well-done, I'd say remove all sappy stupid clichéd stories from RPGs. Heck, the last RPGs I played with even remotely enjoyable stories were all from Bioware, and it's mostly because the story is part of the gameplay. But when it's just cutscene-fodder, I'd say it's just taking space.
I believe that you have to have some kind of complexity in an RPG to get people interested in it at the start, but not having too much to lose people in the middle or extremely pissed off at the end. Yes, there is the whole "It's the journey, not the destination" zen crap you can throw, but would you really accept that line if the ending turned out to make just about everything you did completely moot or raise more questions and answers nothing that was raised before or even retcon various things that were clearly established before? If a game is too complex in it's plot, you lose fans and players, but if it's too simple, you also have the potential to lose fans and players because the story isn't that engaging. True, simple stories can work out, such as the Mario and Luigi series, but RPGs isn't exactly Nintendo's forte now, is it? All they really have under their belts would be the M&L and Paper Mario games that have any kind of complexity (because you can't count Pokemon since there's basically no plot and you're only playing to see new 'mons to throw around in balls).
Not only that, but the twists and whatnot are what help define a series or game from the rest of the bunch. Imagine if that instead of a complex break-out (that I would say started sometime in the SNES era and took a huge leap into it in the PS1 era) that all RPGs were just 'random group saves the world without establishing just who they are and what they're fighting' ala Final Fantasy 1. FF1 is really just about four people who go around beating up villains because destiny said so. FF2 is also on the same boat, just on a different end since it's about three people who constantly get a four guy who go around beating up villains because the bad guys are dicks. FF3 is about four people who go around repeating FF1's plot just with different villains, and Dragon Warrior/Quest kinda took the same route as FF2. However, like it or not, in FF4 things started to change. The idea of having the good guy start out on the villain's side occurred and was played around with after that, Chrono Trigger had the idea of using time travel as a way to create complexity and one of the first multi-ender games created, Shin Megami and it's use of demons as allies and going up against God, and god knows what other SNES era RPGs I'm missing that did something different. Then we hit the PS1 era with FF7, 8, Legend of Dragoon, and various others, and then the PS2 with Disgaea, Kingdom Hearts, and a whole tidal wave full of other titles. They're all complex in their own way to tell a story, it's just whether or not it was good that is the question.
If every game was that simple, Flash, then the RPG market would be flooded with clones of clones of clones of clones, and so on... The story and plot is what makes each RPG a unique experience, along with the music of course. The battle systems may differ, but they're all the same at the core. If you don't like plot, that's your deal. But don't claim that every RPG should be like that; it wouldn't be feasible from a business sense, nor would it be feasible from a player's sense either. If every RPG was exactly as you said, the genre would've died 20 years ago.
Quote from: Green on May 08, 2010, 09:41:29 PM
If every game was that simple, Flash, then the RPG market would be flooded with clones of clones of clones of clones, and so on... The story and plot is what makes each RPG a unique experience, along with the music of course. The battle systems may differ, but they're all the same at the core. If you don't like plot, that's your deal. But don't claim that every RPG should be like that; it wouldn't be feasible from a business sense, nor would it be feasible from a player's sense either. If every RPG was exactly as you said, the genre would've died 20 years ago.
I love plot. I just hate it when the plot is the same soap opera bullshit we've been going through for decades.
So yeah in a nutshell its not about plots being complex, its about plots being good. Complex plots can be good, just as much as they can be crap.
Also remember Sturgeon's Law.
the plots need to be complex cause that's what i've come to expect from them
Complex plots make my head hurt very very much (KH and some others being an exception).
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 08, 2010, 09:59:05 PM
I love plot. I just hate it when the plot is the same soap opera bullshit we've been going through for decades.
This, yes this.
It is all about the execution of ideas. The plot of RPGs doesn´t need to be complex to be sucessful as the Super Mario RPGs had shown us, that even simple stories can be entertaining.
Or do you want the Tropeless Tale (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheTropelessTale)?
If every single RPG had no plot other than DEFEAT THESE GUYS WHILE GRINDING then it wouldn't be good. That was what you said. RPGs today have more story than any other genre; they need it to help describe minute details of the world, to bring it to life. Sure, they don't need a massively complex plot, as the oft-mentioned Mario RPGs have shown us, but they still need some detail. Even the first Final Fantasy had some of that. We knew that Astos was enemy of the Elves, and he stole the crown so he could rule. We knew that Matoya couldn't see without her crystal. We knew that Garland wanted to rule the world for whatever reason, and through the time loop he did. Even then, we had these details. If none of these details existed, which were part of both plot and execution of ideas, it wouldn't really be a game. It would be a bland, interactive video. With repetitive battles for no apparent reason and massive enemies, also for no apparent reason. Yes, RPGs may not need overly complex plots, but saying they shouldn't have any is completely insane.
At that point, you are trying to make a Tropeless Tale, which, if you read the page, is completely impossible to do.
Quote from: Green on May 08, 2010, 11:02:08 PM
If every single RPG had no plot other than DEFEAT THESE GUYS WHILE GRINDING then it wouldn't be good. That was what you said. RPGs today have more story than any other genre; they need it to help describe minute details of the world, to bring it to life. Sure, they don't need a massively complex plot, as the oft-mentioned Mario RPGs have shown us, but they still need some detail. Even the first Final Fantasy had some of that. We knew that Astos was enemy of the Elves, and he stole the crown so he could rule. We knew that Matoya couldn't see without her crystal. We knew that Garland wanted to rule the world for whatever reason, and through the time loop he did. Even then, we had these details. If none of these details existed, which were part of both plot and execution of ideas, it wouldn't really be a game. It would be a bland, interactive video. With repetitive battles for no apparent reason and massive enemies, also for no apparent reason. Yes, RPGs may not need overly complex plots, but saying they shouldn't have any is completely insane.
At that point, you are trying to make a Tropeless Tale, which, if you read the page, is completely impossible to do.
I'm not saying every single RPG should have to. I'm just saying it wouldn't hurt to focus on fun gameplay and less story once in awhile. And sure, story details should be had in an RPG, otherwise there's no context. I had just finished saying I loved plot and hated samey retarded weeaboo tales. The story doesn't have to be complex. I mean, look at Kingdom Hearts. Back when the story wasn't complex, it was pretty good. When the story became complex, it degenerated into a multitude of annoying clichés and tropes that make anyone with a bit of sense to tell a good story from a bad one to roll their eyes endlessly at every single cutscene. Look at Paper Mario, Earthbound and Final Fantasy Tactics. GOOD way to make JRPGs. Look at the multitude of crap we have today. BAD way to make RPGs.
I'll list a single recent example. Nostalgia. Basically an ode to old-style RPGs. It starts with you saving a princess as an Indiana Jones-lookalike. Then going missing and suddenly we're our own son and we're all "ADVENTURE F*CK YEAH". It makes us happy, without having to insult us.
I'm sorry, now all I read in your posts is BAWWWWWWWW about various things. Companies have to make money somehow; they can't all cater to your wants. If it means making a [parasitic bomb] RPG in your eyes, so be it.
Quote from: Green on May 08, 2010, 11:22:47 PM
I'm sorry, now all I read in your posts is BAWWWWWWWW about various things. Companies have to make money somehow; they can't all cater to your wants. If it means making a [parasitic bomb] RPG in your eyes, so be it.
HAHAHAHAHA. I got a stalker now, is that it? A whiny little bitchy stalker who doesn't even keep to the topics, and has a little vendetta against the guy who's made him angry? Funny how every single one of your posts has gone from replying thoughtfully to my arguments, to complaining about me and me alone. So what if I complain about things? This is the INTERNET. Get off it if you can't stand the rage, kid.
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 08, 2010, 11:34:34 PMHAHAHAHAHA. I got a stalker now, is that it? A whiny little bitchy stalker who doesn't even keep to the topics, and has a little vendetta against the guy who's made him angry? Funny how every single one of your posts has gone from replying thoughtfully to my arguments, to complaining about me and me alone. So what if I complain about things? This is the INTERNET. Get off it if you can't stand the rage, kid.
What the
hell are you talking about?
Stalker? I would have liked to ignored this, but you're so full of yourself it makes me want stuff dirt into my eye sockets.
That was highly offensive. I know all about this stuff. Trust me, I've been online for the majority of my life. Stop treating me like I'm some whiny little [sonic slicer]. I've been through a whole lot of [parasitic bomb] in my life, some you couldn't begin to comprehend, and as of now I'm under a tremendous amount of stress. If I take it out on someone, oh well. Don't like it? Too bad. You aren't scaring me away from here. So shut the hell up.
>_>
Quote from: Spectro D. on May 08, 2010, 11:42:27 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Stalker? I would have liked to ignored this, but you're so full of yourself it makes me want stuff dirt into my eye sockets.
This guy's been replying to every single post I make, making constant references to every single other post and constantly saying I'm just raging over stuff. If he can't handle it, he should get off the net.
Quote from: Green on May 08, 2010, 11:42:58 PM
That was highly offensive. I know all about this stuff. Trust me, I've been online for the majority of my life. Stop treating me like I'm some whiny little [sonic slicer]. I've been through a whole lot of [parasitic bomb] in my life, some you couldn't begin to comprehend, and as of now I'm under a tremendous amount of stress. If I take it out on someone, oh well. Don't like it? Too bad. You aren't scaring me away from here. So shut the hell up.
>_>
Now we're up to the "my life is hard" things? Man, you couldn't be more of a cliché, could you?
Anyway, back on topic. I'm actually seeing a growing trend of JRPGs trying out new things. FFXIII tried out (mostly failed to reach the public) a new gameplay form, and The World Ends With You was wonderful in the new setting department. It used a common story in a completely different kind of background. It felt "right".
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 08, 2010, 11:46:00 PMThis guy's been replying to every single post I make, making constant references to every single other post and constantly saying I'm just raging over stuff. If he can't handle it, he should get off the net.
herpity duprity durr etc. It's a debate.
Quote from: Spectro D. on May 08, 2010, 11:46:45 PM
herpity duprity durr etc. It's a debate.
Every single post from OTHER TOPIC. He's making it personal instead of replying based on the topic.
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 08, 2010, 11:48:44 PMEvery single post from OTHER TOPIC. He's making it personal instead of replying based on the topic.
Which was after you called her something to the effect of a whiny little kid? wow that was really unprovoked jeez
It sounds like
you're taking it personally.
Quote from: Spectro D. on May 08, 2010, 11:50:44 PM
Which was after you called her something to the effect of a whiny little kid? wow that was really unprovoked jeez
It sounds like you're taking it personally.
I made a long reply, explaining exactly what was good and bad in JRPG stories. He just started going after me instead of replying maturely. Of course he's a whiny little kid.
Anyway, what do you think of how the Final Fantasy is progressing in terms of stories? I actually think they had something good in FFXII, but they kinda ruined it with Vaan and the second part. They should have kept it entirely adventurish and warfareish. FFXIII kinda destroyed all remnants of what a good story it might have had.
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 08, 2010, 11:57:05 PMAnyway, what do you think of how the Final Fantasy is progressing in terms of stories? I actually think they had something good in FFXII, but they kinda ruined it with Vaan and the second part.
I don't even know what FFXII was about. Everything was pseudo-politics with Vayne trying to get nethicite sandwiched in between.
Quote from: Spectro D. on May 09, 2010, 12:00:03 AM
I don't even know what FFXII was about. Everything was pseudo-politics with Vayne trying to get nethicite sandwiched in between.
I was drunk when playing through half of it so I can't be trusted with giving my opinion on the second half. But it seemed to progress really well. And I liked the Han/Chewie dynamic that Balthier/Fran had.
Last thing I'm saying. See the gender indicator by my post? See how it says Female? Yeah, stop calling me "he" and use the proper [tornado fang]ing pronouns. The way I am, being referred to by masculine pronouns is highly offensive, and bordering on flaming.
Quote from: Green on May 09, 2010, 12:15:28 AM
Last thing I'm saying. See the gender indicator by my post? See how it says Female? Yeah, stop calling me "he" and use the proper [tornado fang]ing pronouns. The way I am, being referred to by masculine pronouns is highly offensive, and bordering on flaming.
Didn't notice.
Obviously.
Quote from: Green on May 09, 2010, 12:25:02 AM
Obviously.
If you're done posting "this is my last post!"s one after another, stick to the damn topic for once.
Anyone here liked the Persona 3 story? I kinda thought the choices and relationships you made along the way made it cool. The way they incorporated the story into the game itself for stat-raising was nice.
Jesus Christ... what has this topic suddenly become?!
I'm sad.
Quote from: Pollux Rui Britannia on May 09, 2010, 09:28:00 AM
Jesus Christ... what has this topic suddenly become?!
I'm sad.
Trying to steer it in the right damn direction. Stop complainan, start contributan.
Okay then.
I must personally say, that my favorite plot from any RPG ever, is probably the one from Golden Sun.
I mean, sometimes the amount of dialogs might [acid burst] you off, but you have to admit that the plot was nice, and it was probably one of the leading factors, which made me play it.. and beat it.
I'm planning to beat the two games again sometimes soon... sometimes soon.
Quote from: Pollux Rui Britannia on May 09, 2010, 01:31:10 PM
Okay then.
I must personally say, that my favorite plot from any RPG ever, is probably the one from Golden Sun.
I mean, sometimes the amount of dialogs might [acid burst] you off, but you have to admit that the plot was nice, and it was probably one of the leading factors, which made me play it.. and beat it.
I'm planning to beat the two games again sometimes soon... sometimes soon.
I've never played Golden Sun 1 or 2 before. What's the plot like?
What do you mean "What's the plot like"?
If you want an overall summary, then here it is:
You control a bunch of teenagers with psychic powers and save the world.
The End.
Seriously tough, why don't you play them? *coughemulatorsandromscough*
Unless you abhore doing it this way.
Besides... I don't remember much from it, since I played them long ago. I just remember few details, and the fact that I was amazed at some of the plot twists. God, I really need to replay this. : /
Quote from: Pollux Rui Britannia on May 09, 2010, 03:10:11 PM
What do you mean "What's the plot like"?
If you want an overall summary, then here it is:
You control a bunch of teenagers with psychic powers and save the world.
The End.
Seriously tough, why don't you play them? *coughemulatorsandromscough*
Unless you abhore doing it this way.
Besides... I don't remember much from it, since I played them long ago. I just remember few details, and the fact that I was amazed at some of the plot twists. God, I really need to replay this. : /
I'd play it on an emulator, but I kinda find it annoying to do so. Don't get me wrong, I love piracy and all that it entails. I have gotten illegality pregnant many times and I am in an on-and-off relationship with the wrong side of the law. It's just that it's kind of annoying to play a GBA game on a big screen with a keyboard. Maybe I'll play it on a GBA emulator on the PSP.
Yeah, the Golden Sun games are quite awesome. And Golden Sun DS comes out later this year (hopefully more info will be revealed at E3), so check those out.
Quote from: Green on May 09, 2010, 08:32:43 PM
Yeah, the Golden Sun games are quite awesome. And Golden Sun DS comes out later this year (hopefully more info will be revealed at E3), so check those out.
I'm kinda worried we haven't heard anything else about the games so far, though. Hope everything's going alright with them.
Quote from: Green on May 09, 2010, 12:15:28 AM
The way I am, being referred to by masculine pronouns is highly offensive, and bordering on flaming.
hahaha flaming
what
Anyone who wants plot in their RPGs should just play PS:T. More plot than you'll know what to do with, damn.
(More words = more plot, right?)
Wow, way to go out of your way to bring up a topic that has been resolved.
PS:T? What's that again?
now who the hell gets into a discussion about rpgs and hasn't heard of planescape torment?
i mean really
I'm sorry, I didn't recognize the abbreviation. >_>
Not immediately thinking of Torment when trying to think of an RPG that starts with the letter P still means you lose massive amounts of street cred, sorry.
I wasn't trying to think of an RPG that started with the letter P though...
You saving your brain for something special or somethin'?
Planescape: Torment's so friggin' awesome.
My magnum Opus for RPG plot that I actually had enormous fun with (not in terms of complexity, but in terms of damn good plot, characters and interactions) has got to be KOTOR. That was one hell of a good time. I still play it about once a year.
KotOR sucks, you don't get to have sex with any aliens at all.
I'm glad Bioware realised what their games were missing by the time they made Mass Effect.
Quote from: Tickle Buffalo on May 09, 2010, 09:36:10 PM
KotOR sucks, you don't get to have sex with any aliens at all.
I'm glad Bioware realised what their games were missing by the time they made Mass Effect.
KOTOR is more moddable. I have sex with aliens in MY KOTOR. 8D
Quote from: Tickle Buffalo on May 09, 2010, 08:57:03 PM
now who the hell gets into a discussion about rpgs and hasn't heard of planescape torment?
Never even heard of it
Quote from: The Goshdarn Flash on May 09, 2010, 11:37:17 PM
KOTOR is more moddable. I have sex with aliens in MY KOTOR. 8D
It's a damn tragedy that Xbox players miss out on this [parasitic bomb], isn't it?
Quote from: Tickle Buffalo on May 10, 2010, 04:03:44 PM
It's a damn tragedy that Xbox players miss out on this [parasitic bomb], isn't it?
All console players miss out on the good mod stuff. Oblivion has awesome mods. Fallout 3 is fine without them, for example. I first played KOTOR on the XBox when it was released, but it's one of the biggest bugfests I could ever be arsed to finish, and still surprisingly my favorite RPG of all time. The PC version has less bugs, so it's better.
I'll have to look into this...
???? (http://audiobookkeeper.ru/book/8799)485.6 (http://cottagenet.ru/plan/571)nsin (http://eyesvision.ru/physics/13)Repr (http://eyesvisions.com/bates-medical-articles-myopic-refraction-relieved)???? (http://factoringfee.ru/t/961499)???? (http://filmzones.ru/t/420332)???? (http://gadwall.ru/t/572668)Jeff (http://gaffertape.ru/t/832361)???? (http://gageboard.ru/t/847361)Jewe (http://gagrule.ru/t/632215)???? (http://gallduct.ru/t/847747)Good (http://galvanometric.ru/t/448326)???? (http://gangforeman.ru/t/422485)???? (http://gangwayplatform.ru/t/851841)With (http://garbagechute.ru/t/1090312)???? (http://gardeningleave.ru/t/298717)???? (http://gascautery.ru/t/941849)Zyli (http://gashbucket.ru/t/448516)Salo (http://gasreturn.ru/t/882291)Rond (http://gatedsweep.ru/t/559929)???? (http://gaugemodel.ru/t/1159973)Vint (http://gaussianfilter.ru/t/972506)???? (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru/t/760221)
2CS2 (http://geartreating.ru/t/741213)25-0 (http://generalizedanalysis.ru/t/641889)???? (http://generalprovisions.ru/t/559693)Atla (http://geophysicalprobe.ru/t/565663)Nive (http://geriatricnurse.ru/t/143141)???? (http://getintoaflap.ru/t/358126)Dent (http://getthebounce.ru/t/144053)???? (http://habeascorpus.ru/t/760371)???? (http://habituate.ru/t/832868)Aquo (http://hackedbolt.ru/t/396420)???? (http://hackworker.ru/t/817334)???? (http://hadronicannihilation.ru/t/761603)XVII (http://haemagglutinin.ru/t/808468)Atri (http://hailsquall.ru/t/314608)MATI (http://hairysphere.ru/t/560646)Gree (http://halforderfringe.ru/t/561813)Nive (http://halfsiblings.ru/t/562860)???? (http://hallofresidence.ru/t/563156)Repo (http://haltstate.ru/t/560555)???? (http://handcoding.ru/t/806105)Davi (http://handportedhead.ru/t/918491)Pant (http://handradar.ru/t/562409)Roma (http://handsfreetelephone.ru/t/295062)
Eric (http://hangonpart.ru/t/656599)Fran (http://haphazardwinding.ru/t/557627)???? (http://hardalloyteeth.ru/t/557088)Amar (http://hardasiron.ru/t/566555)???? (http://hardenedconcrete.ru/t/567103)Engl (http://harmonicinteraction.ru/t/567731)Wind (http://hartlaubgoose.ru/t/165175)Eleg (http://hatchholddown.ru/t/601910)???? (http://haveafinetime.ru/t/750356)1877 (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru/t/299886)Dela (http://headregulator.ru/t/663734)???? (http://heartofgold.ru/t/836782)???? (http://heatageingresistance.ru/t/469592)???? (http://heatinggas.ru/t/906506)???? (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru/t/795278)Sela (http://jacketedwall.ru/t/603080)???? (http://japanesecedar.ru/t/602110)Pete (http://jibtypecrane.ru/t/607704)Fade (http://jobabandonment.ru/t/603826)Circ (http://jobstress.ru/t/603833)acti (http://jogformation.ru/t/609959)???? (http://jointcapsule.ru/t/680189)Karl (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru/t/924758)
Wind (http://journallubricator.ru/t/615450)John (http://juicecatcher.ru/t/753570)XIII (http://junctionofchannels.ru/t/768537)Barb (http://justiciablehomicide.ru/t/771346)???? (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru/t/679184)Bria (http://kaposidisease.ru/t/770714)Read (http://keepagoodoffing.ru/t/740439)Zone (http://keepsmthinhand.ru/t/610551)???? (http://kentishglory.ru/t/783322)Eliz (http://kerbweight.ru/t/781454)Rusi (http://kerrrotation.ru/t/606635)Zone (http://keymanassurance.ru/t/609089)Mars (http://keyserum.ru/t/786830)???? (http://kickplate.ru/t/194988)Robe (http://killthefattedcalf.ru/t/662435)57-3 (http://kilowattsecond.ru/t/606613)Zone (http://kingweakfish.ru/t/609709)???? (http://kinozones.ru/film/2683)???? (http://kleinbottle.ru/t/611282)Zone (http://kneejoint.ru/t/605489)???? (http://knifesethouse.ru/t/838907)Zone (http://knockonatom.ru/t/607926)Zone (http://knowledgestate.ru/t/605307)
Elis (http://kondoferromagnet.ru/t/671396)Jewe (http://labeledgraph.ru/t/1135954)XVII (http://laborracket.ru/t/495725)???? (http://labourearnings.ru/t/839024)???? (http://labourleasing.ru/t/834223)???? (http://laburnumtree.ru/t/878193)???? (http://lacingcourse.ru/t/862325)???? (http://lacrimalpoint.ru/t/875429)???? (http://lactogenicfactor.ru/t/871800)XVII (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru/t/786506)Mart (http://ladletreatediron.ru/t/473180)Barb (http://laggingload.ru/t/771378)???? (http://laissezaller.ru/t/813073)Sidn (http://lambdatransition.ru/t/744932)Dani (http://laminatedmaterial.ru/t/673919)Fyod (http://lammasshoot.ru/t/762550)???? (http://lamphouse.ru/t/817194)???? (http://lancecorporal.ru/t/761127)Lawr (http://lancingdie.ru/t/663179)???? (http://landingdoor.ru/t/676069)???? (http://landmarksensor.ru/t/836615)???? (http://landreform.ru/t/835022)???? (http://landuseratio.ru/t/795957)
(183 (http://languagelaboratory.ru/t/855939)???? (http://largeheart.ru)???? (http://lasercalibration.ru)???? (http://laserlens.ru/lase_zakaz/1295)DAXX (http://laserpulse.ru)???? (http://laterevent.ru/shop/1031225)Waln (http://latrinesergeant.ru/shop/451808)Stop (http://layabout.ru)Sylv (http://leadcoating.ru)Craz (http://leadingfirm.ru)Whit (http://learningcurve.ru)SQui (http://leaveword.ru)Char (http://machinesensible.ru)Fies (http://magneticequator.ru)ESSG (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)Best (http://mailinghouse.ru)???? (http://majorconcern.ru)Hyun (http://mammasdarling.ru)Gare (http://managerialstaff.ru)Mata (http://manipulatinghand.ru)???? (http://manualchoke.ru)???? (http://medinfobooks.ru/book/2139)FLAC (http://mp3lists.ru/item/1891)
Vali (http://nameresolution.ru)???? (http://naphtheneseries.ru)Worl (http://narrowmouthed.ru)???? (http://nationalcensus.ru)???? (http://naturalfunctor.ru)???? (http://navelseed.ru)???? (http://neatplaster.ru)Iris (http://necroticcaries.ru)Marc (http://negativefibration.ru)Mole (http://neighbouringrights.ru)???? (http://objectmodule.ru)Moul (http://observationballoon.ru/shop/10190)???? (http://obstructivepatent.ru)???? (http://oceanmining.ru/shop/457683)Choi (http://octupolephonon.ru)???? (http://offlinesystem.ru)Macr (http://offsetholder.ru)???? (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)???? (http://onesticket.ru)???? (http://packedspheres.ru)Zieh (http://pagingterminal.ru)???? (http://palatinebones.ru)???? (http://palmberry.ru)
???? (http://papercoating.ru)???? (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)XVII (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)Davi (http://parkingbrake.ru)XVII (http://partfamily.ru)Kare (http://partialmajorant.ru)???? (http://quadrupleworm.ru)Henr (http://qualitybooster.ru)???? (http://quasimoney.ru)Wedn (http://quenchedspark.ru)Anne (http://quodrecuperet.ru)Pres (http://rabbetledge.ru)???? (http://radialchaser.ru)(??? (http://radiationestimator.ru)Brow (http://railwaybridge.ru)XVII (http://randomcoloration.ru)Dior (http://rapidgrowth.ru)???? (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)Semi (http://reachthroughregion.ru)Mich (http://readingmagnifier.ru)???? (http://rearchain.ru)???? (http://recessioncone.ru)wwwb (http://recordedassignment.ru)
???? (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)Davi (http://redemptionvalue.ru)???? (http://reducingflange.ru)???? (http://referenceantigen.ru)???? (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)OZON (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)???? (http://safedrilling.ru)Char (http://sagprofile.ru)???? (http://salestypelease.ru)???? (http://samplinginterval.ru)???? (http://satellitehydrology.ru)???? (http://scarcecommodity.ru)???? (http://scrapermat.ru)Robe (http://screwingunit.ru)???? (http://seawaterpump.ru)Poli (http://secondaryblock.ru)???? (http://secularclergy.ru)???? (http://seismicefficiency.ru)???? (http://selectivediffuser.ru)???? (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)Sund (http://semifinishmachining.ru)???? (http://spicetrade.ru/spice_zakaz/1295)???? (http://spysale.ru/spy_zakaz/1295)
???? (http://stungun.ru/stun_zakaz/1295)???? (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)???? (http://tailstockcenter.ru)Erin (http://tamecurve.ru)snea (http://tapecorrection.ru)???? (http://tappingchuck.ru)???? (http://taskreasoning.ru)???? (http://technicalgrade.ru)???? (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)???? (http://telescopicdamper.ru)???? (http://temperateclimate.ru)???? (http://temperedmeasure.ru)MPEG (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)Adob (http://ultramaficrock.ru)???? (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)
???? (http://audiobookkeeper.ru)???? (http://cottagenet.ru)???? (http://eyesvision.ru)???? (http://eyesvisions.com)???? (http://factoringfee.ru)???? (http://filmzones.ru)???? (http://gadwall.ru)???? (http://gaffertape.ru)???? (http://gageboard.ru)???? (http://gagrule.ru)???? (http://gallduct.ru)???? (http://galvanometric.ru)???? (http://gangforeman.ru)???? (http://gangwayplatform.ru)???? (http://garbagechute.ru)???? (http://gardeningleave.ru)???? (http://gascautery.ru)???? (http://gashbucket.ru)???? (http://gasreturn.ru)???? (http://gatedsweep.ru)???? (http://gaugemodel.ru)???? (http://gaussianfilter.ru)???? (http://gearpitchdiameter.ru)
???? (http://geartreating.ru)???? (http://generalizedanalysis.ru)???? (http://generalprovisions.ru)???? (http://geophysicalprobe.ru)???? (http://geriatricnurse.ru)???? (http://getintoaflap.ru)???? (http://getthebounce.ru)???? (http://habeascorpus.ru)???? (http://habituate.ru)???? (http://hackedbolt.ru)???? (http://hackworker.ru)???? (http://hadronicannihilation.ru)???? (http://haemagglutinin.ru)???? (http://hailsquall.ru)???? (http://hairysphere.ru)???? (http://halforderfringe.ru)???? (http://halfsiblings.ru)???? (http://hallofresidence.ru)???? (http://haltstate.ru)???? (http://handcoding.ru)???? (http://handportedhead.ru)???? (http://handradar.ru)???? (http://handsfreetelephone.ru)
???? (http://hangonpart.ru)???? (http://haphazardwinding.ru)???? (http://hardalloyteeth.ru)???? (http://hardasiron.ru)???? (http://hardenedconcrete.ru)???? (http://harmonicinteraction.ru)???? (http://hartlaubgoose.ru)???? (http://hatchholddown.ru)???? (http://haveafinetime.ru)???? (http://hazardousatmosphere.ru)???? (http://headregulator.ru)???? (http://heartofgold.ru)???? (http://heatageingresistance.ru)???? (http://heatinggas.ru)???? (http://heavydutymetalcutting.ru)???? (http://jacketedwall.ru)???? (http://japanesecedar.ru)???? (http://jibtypecrane.ru)???? (http://jobabandonment.ru)???? (http://jobstress.ru)???? (http://jogformation.ru)???? (http://jointcapsule.ru)???? (http://jointsealingmaterial.ru)
???? (http://journallubricator.ru)???? (http://juicecatcher.ru)???? (http://junctionofchannels.ru)???? (http://justiciablehomicide.ru)???? (http://juxtapositiontwin.ru)???? (http://kaposidisease.ru)???? (http://keepagoodoffing.ru)???? (http://keepsmthinhand.ru)???? (http://kentishglory.ru)???? (http://kerbweight.ru)???? (http://kerrrotation.ru)???? (http://keymanassurance.ru)???? (http://keyserum.ru)???? (http://kickplate.ru)???? (http://killthefattedcalf.ru)???? (http://kilowattsecond.ru)???? (http://kingweakfish.ru)???? (http://kinozones.ru)???? (http://kleinbottle.ru)???? (http://kneejoint.ru)???? (http://knifesethouse.ru)???? (http://knockonatom.ru)???? (http://knowledgestate.ru)
???? (http://kondoferromagnet.ru)???? (http://labeledgraph.ru)???? (http://laborracket.ru)???? (http://labourearnings.ru)???? (http://labourleasing.ru)???? (http://laburnumtree.ru)???? (http://lacingcourse.ru)???? (http://lacrimalpoint.ru)???? (http://lactogenicfactor.ru)???? (http://lacunarycoefficient.ru)???? (http://ladletreatediron.ru)???? (http://laggingload.ru)???? (http://laissezaller.ru)???? (http://lambdatransition.ru)???? (http://laminatedmaterial.ru)???? (http://lammasshoot.ru)???? (http://lamphouse.ru)???? (http://lancecorporal.ru)???? (http://lancingdie.ru)???? (http://landingdoor.ru)???? (http://landmarksensor.ru)???? (http://landreform.ru)???? (http://landuseratio.ru)
???? (http://languagelaboratory.ru)???? (http://largeheart.ru)???? (http://lasercalibration.ru)???? (http://laserlens.ru)???? (http://laserpulse.ru)???? (http://laterevent.ru)???? (http://latrinesergeant.ru)???? (http://layabout.ru)???? (http://leadcoating.ru)???? (http://leadingfirm.ru)???? (http://learningcurve.ru)???? (http://leaveword.ru)???? (http://machinesensible.ru)???? (http://magneticequator.ru)???? (http://magnetotelluricfield.ru)???? (http://mailinghouse.ru)???? (http://majorconcern.ru)???? (http://mammasdarling.ru)???? (http://managerialstaff.ru)???? (http://manipulatinghand.ru)???? (http://manualchoke.ru)???? (http://medinfobooks.ru)???? (http://mp3lists.ru)
???? (http://nameresolution.ru)???? (http://naphtheneseries.ru)???? (http://narrowmouthed.ru)???? (http://nationalcensus.ru)???? (http://naturalfunctor.ru)???? (http://navelseed.ru)???? (http://neatplaster.ru)???? (http://necroticcaries.ru)???? (http://negativefibration.ru)???? (http://neighbouringrights.ru)???? (http://objectmodule.ru)???? (http://observationballoon.ru)???? (http://obstructivepatent.ru)???? (http://oceanmining.ru)???? (http://octupolephonon.ru)???? (http://offlinesystem.ru)???? (http://offsetholder.ru)???? (http://olibanumresinoid.ru)???? (http://onesticket.ru)???? (http://packedspheres.ru)???? (http://pagingterminal.ru)???? (http://palatinebones.ru)???? (http://palmberry.ru)
???? (http://papercoating.ru)???? (http://paraconvexgroup.ru)???? (http://parasolmonoplane.ru)???? (http://parkingbrake.ru)???? (http://partfamily.ru)???? (http://partialmajorant.ru)???? (http://quadrupleworm.ru)???? (http://qualitybooster.ru)???? (http://quasimoney.ru)???? (http://quenchedspark.ru)???? (http://quodrecuperet.ru)???? (http://rabbetledge.ru)???? (http://radialchaser.ru)???? (http://radiationestimator.ru)???? (http://railwaybridge.ru)???? (http://randomcoloration.ru)???? (http://rapidgrowth.ru)???? (http://rattlesnakemaster.ru)???? (http://reachthroughregion.ru)???? (http://readingmagnifier.ru)???? (http://rearchain.ru)???? (http://recessioncone.ru)???? (http://recordedassignment.ru)
???? (http://rectifiersubstation.ru)???? (http://redemptionvalue.ru)???? (http://reducingflange.ru)???? (http://referenceantigen.ru)???? (http://regeneratedprotein.ru)???? (http://reinvestmentplan.ru)???? (http://safedrilling.ru)???? (http://sagprofile.ru)???? (http://salestypelease.ru)???? (http://samplinginterval.ru)???? (http://satellitehydrology.ru)???? (http://scarcecommodity.ru)???? (http://scrapermat.ru)???? (http://screwingunit.ru)???? (http://seawaterpump.ru)???? (http://secondaryblock.ru)???? (http://secularclergy.ru)???? (http://seismicefficiency.ru)???? (http://selectivediffuser.ru)???? (http://semiasphalticflux.ru)???? (http://semifinishmachining.ru)???? (http://spicetrade.ru)???? (http://spysale.ru)
???? (http://stungun.ru)???? (http://tacticaldiameter.ru)???? (http://tailstockcenter.ru)???? (http://tamecurve.ru)???? (http://tapecorrection.ru)???? (http://tappingchuck.ru)???? (http://taskreasoning.ru)???? (http://technicalgrade.ru)???? (http://telangiectaticlipoma.ru)???? (http://telescopicdamper.ru)???? (http://temperateclimate.ru)???? (http://temperedmeasure.ru)???? (http://tenementbuilding.ru)tuchkas (http://tuchkas.ru/)???? (http://ultramaficrock.ru)???? (http://ultraviolettesting.ru)