Topic: Nintendo Patent Reveals Potential Paradigm Shift in Design

[VixyNyan]

Two things, one Vixy, you've opened Pandora's [tornado fang]ing Box posting this one.

[Acid]

The biggest problem is:

How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?

[VixyNyan]

Capcom, Treasure, Konami, Bamco, Squenix? Or none of them. Your pick.

[Protoman Blues]

The biggest problem is:

How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?

I don't see that as a problem.  I mean, most of us would never use it, and for those games that don't have it, there's always the Internet. 

[Jericho]

But how is it going to be spoiling it?  You simply don't look. 

See, this is the important thing. "Hardcore" get their balls grabbed and thrown down stairs while "casuals" get to at least say they experienced the game. But you think teh internet liek casualz?

[Acid]

I can only see Kojima, self proclaimed storeyteller, making use of it. But he's also a graphics whore so he probably wouldn't develop for Wii.

[Solar]

I think I understand this now, but I need to see it in action first to really give my opinion =/

EDIT: Oh, Wii Sports wouldn't have "sold" as many as it did if it weren't bundled with the Wii console. Yeah, SMB was bundled with the NES at times, but that game actually would have been bought, whereas Wii Sports would be nowhere if it weren't bundled with the console. Remember this when Wii Sports Resort comes around and doesn't sell.

Tell that to Japan.

Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game.  An option.  It means you don't have to use it.  I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing.  Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.

Agreed, but how can us gamers keep our reputation if we don't complain about every single thing

[VixyNyan]

See, this is the important thing. "Hardcore" get their balls grabbed and thrown down stairs while "casuals" get to at least say they experienced the game. But you think teh internet liek casualz?

Look, this is a way for casualz to keep up with the talk of the hardcorez's or whatever you prefer to call them.
They won't feel stupid when they finally understand what a game is about. They don't want to feel left out.

[Acid]

a game is about.

A game is about playing it.

[Jericho]

The biggest problem is:

How many developers besides Nintendo will actually support this?

I think this is going to be a strict Nintendo thing for a while. Here's food for the thought though, if this is really going to be showing up sooner as opposed to later in games, what games in particular shall use them?

*Points to the patent diagrams using funny mock-ups of The Legend of Zelda. You know that's what is was, don't argue. *

Stealth Zelda Wii hint confirmed?

[Saber]

Again, this whole vid thing is simply an option to view during the game.  An option.  It means you don't have to use it.  I don't see how adding options is ever a bad thing.  Nor trying to expand on ideas and innovation.

The point is that they intend to virtually include a video walkthrough into the game. If you were to get stuck at some point, you could simply watch how it's done right. It is true that a lot of gamers, including myself, have relied on online gameplay videos, walkthroughs written by gamers or the company that produced the game in the past, but the difference here is that these assistances were EXTERNAL. You still had to look for them yourself. Fine, nowadays this is a matter of 10 seconds due to GameFAQs and stuff, but that NINTENDO wants to integrate such a system into their games is near blasphemy in my eyes. It takes the challenge out of these franchises, which have been around for 20 years and more and reduces them to a toy for infants. If you just rely on such assistances provided by the producing company, then there's no difficulty in the game anymore. It's like playing a a game with a GameShark and all available cheats enabled.

A game is about playing it.

A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.

[Solar]

*Points to the patent diagrams using funny mock-ups of The Legend of Zelda. You know that what is was, don't argue. *

Stealth Zelda Wii hint confirmed?

Aren't you late Jelly? Acid already bet his complete ass that this was for the newest Zelda.

[Jericho]

I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times.

Aren't you late Jelly? Acid already bet his complete ass that this was for the newest Zelda.

Yeah, I just looked back there and saw it. "You're too sloooow!".gif

[HyperSonicEXE]

Tell that to Japan.

Granted, and it was sold individually in some countries (and I guess it is sold Used here in the U.S.), but Wii Sports Resort doesn't have a collection of well-known sports; it's a collection of beach games.

If it does sell, it's due to the bundling with the Wii MotionPlus.

A game is about playing it.

A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.

It is, and this does hinder that a bit, but sometimes there are design flaws or extremely ambiguous details that this will help mask. It's a "solution" to a "problem".

Besides, there's still the matter of the story.

[Solar]

A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.

It only shows you how, big deal. You still have to do it, which in many cases it's easier said than done.

I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times.

I forbid you to leave this topic D:<

[VixyNyan]

I think I'm going to bail out of this topic for a while, mainly because my funny ribs and sarcasm might be hard to detect at times.

Casuals are human beings too.

[Solar]

To the hardcorez, they're aliens that are ruining the industry

[HyperSonicEXE]

It only shows you how, big deal. You still have to do it, which in many cases it's easier said than done.

Even if it showed me how to get Wario's top time on Wario's Gold Mine, I'd still have one heck of a time trying to match that time with powersliding; guarantee you I'd fall off the course more often than not.

Pilotwings 64 could have used this.

[VixyNyan]

Pilotwings 64 could have used this.

I agree on this one~ x3

[Acid]

Besides, there's still the matter of the story.

Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.

Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:

I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.

[Jericho]

Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.

Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:

I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.

10000x this.

Also Metroid. ;____________;

EDIT - You know something else that came to mind? Nintendo has a metric shitton of patented ideas good, bad and in between that have never hit the public. I will ROFL so hard if this all turns out to be Shiggy [tornado fang]ing with us all.

[Saber]

Metroid's been dead since Nintendo decided to move it into 3D and drop 2D althogether.

Where's my [tornado fang]ing Metroid Fusion sequel??!

[Solar]

Granted, and it was sold individually in some countries (and I guess it is sold Used here in the U.S.), but Wii Sports Resort doesn't have a collection of well-known sports; it's a collection of beach games.

If it does sell, it's due to the bundling with the Wii MotionPlus.

Isn't Wii Sports Resort whole purpose for existing to be a demo for Motion+ anyways?

Anyway. I'm already tired of debating this. So I will just say one more thing:

I am happy that the 'video mode' is not mandatory, because there's no way I will ever use that for a game I'm interested in.

I think this is something that we can all agree.

Metroid's been dead since Nintendo decided to move it into 3D and drop 2D althogether.

Where's my [tornado fang]ing Metroid Fusion sequel??!

Did you even play the Prime games? However, I agree about the Fusion sequel.

[Protoman Blues]

there's going to be a system of worldwide replays for a certain game spoiling how something might be tackled.

This is my point.  It's the same thing when the ConcreteMan & PlugMan stage run throughts were shown for MM9.  I simply didn't look at them.  I listened to the music, but I never watched the vids of the level design.  Even if this replay data is shown on the net before the game comes out, it's a simple matter of not viewing it.  So, the game is only spoiled if YOU look at it, not if someone posts it.

The point is that they intend to virtually include a video walkthrough into the game. If you were to get stuck at some point, you could simply watch how it's done right. It is true that a lot of gamers, including myself, have relied on online gameplay videos, walkthroughs written by gamers or the company that produced the game in the past, but the difference here is that these assistances were EXTERNAL. You still had to look for them yourself. Fine, nowadays this is a matter of 10 seconds due to GameFAQs and stuff, but that NINTENDO wants to integrate such a system into their games is near blasphemy in my eyes. It takes the challenge out of these franchises, which have been around for 20 years and more and reduces them to a toy for infants. If you just rely on such assistances provided by the producing company, then there's no difficulty in the game anymore. It's like playing a a game with a GameShark and all available cheats enabled.

Game -- Play through the game normally. Hint system is available but not forced. So hardcore gamers could just play the game regularly and enjoy the challenge while more casual gamers can get hints if they get really stuck


So wait...You HAVE used Online Gameplay vids to get through games, and your gripe with Nintendo is that they are giving you the OPTION to view it?  That's hypocritical.  What you're saying is that regular gamers can offer helpful vids, but the companies that make the game can't?

A game is about playing it.

A game is about playing and overcoming the trials and obstacles it throws at you. It the company intends to show you how to beat the game in the first place, then there's no need to make the game at all.

Sorry, but I respectfully disagree.  A game is about one thing and one thing ONLY.  Having FUN.  It's Entertainment.  It's Leisure Time activity.  It brings NOTHING to the table in the grand scheme of life.  It's SOLE purpose is entertainment.  After all your power ups, all your ranks, all your speedruns, all your levels, all your points, star power, weapon gets, EVERYTHING, at the end of the game the question you have to ask yourself is "Did I Have Fun Playing It?"   That's all that matters, more than game reviews or ranks, more than anything the game itself offers.  All this Hardcore and Casual bullshit means absolutely NOTHING.  It's all about having fun. 

[HyperSonicEXE]

Nintendo's best selling, story-heaviest franchises are Metroid and Zelda. Metroid is pretty much dead (unless they revive it for this, LOL keep dreaming). And even Zelda is not so deep.

Yeah, I'm starting to wonder how long Metroid can last. Ridley's been biologically revived, then re-killed.
Samus has lost her original suit TWICE, then gained it back in different ways.
We've had any number of Samus clones.
Supposedly, the last Metroid in the universe is dead (certainly after Fusion, that seems to be the case, although it's really easy to retcon this).
It just seems like anything they do would feel cheap, at best.

And no, LoZ isn't deep. Mario isn't deep. It's not the depth, here, it's the characters and evolution of the series and watching the events and twists unfold that's fun.

Isn't Wii Sports Resort whole purpose for existing to be a demo for Motion+ anyways?

I think this is something that we can all agree.

Did you even play the Prime games? However, I agree about the Fusion sequel.

Yeah, basically. Nintendo admitting, "...WHOOPS, eh heh, we should have done 1:1 in the first place, so here, buy our expensive bundle."

I agree with it. The "hardcore" won't, though.

Prime was fun, albeit a little aggravating. Where's the button that makes Samus "HOLY ****, WHAT'S BEHIND ME, I'D BETTER TURN 180 AROUND"? Or look at the enemy that last shot you.