Topic: Super Smash Bros. Bitchslap: What Do You Want To See In It?

[Acid]

if he shows up in a Mario game that's not a spin off, things will be forgiven. but as of now, Waluigi's only purpose is hand always has been to take up a character slot.

He'll be the recurring rival in Nintendo's upcoming game "Paper Luigi and the Legend of the Floating Castle".

[Jericho]

I'd buy it. I'd also buy a "Super Wario Brothers" as well. All the platforming of Mario with the sheer left field "WTF" of Wario Land & Warioware? Sold.

[Alice in Entropy]

I'd buy it. I'd also buy a "Super Wario Brothers" as well. All the platforming of Mario with the sheer left field "WTF" of Wario Land & Warioware? Sold.

DO WANT. =D

[HyperSonicEXE]

i wouldn't put in Rosalina or Midna. with potential new Mario and Zelda games coming out, their notability will be in the tank. come to think of it, i should tweak my Link moveset to eliminate the TP-specific stuff.

and Waluigi is a terrible idea for playable character. that's putting in a Mario character for the sake of. he's already an awesome Assist, anyway.

Their popularity is off the charts, and remember, SSB's favor the games of the previous generation.

N64 had Fox, Samus, Ness and Captain Falcon. Melee was just oozing with N64 references, with particular weight on LoZ. Brawl had a lot of Gamecube references, so far as throwing in Pikmin, SMS, and LM stages. Bitchslap would have Wii references, none the least of which would be Rosalina and Midna in some manner (Assist, Playable, Adventure, Stage Hazard, or otherwise).

As far as Waluigi, I like that character. They actually did a pretty good job of building him up. Wario didn't seem like a ripoff, since it's not too farfetched for Mario to have an evil relative. But when they announced Waluigi, okay, that's when things seemed a little silly. But after giving Waluigi the water element (see: Mario Power Tennis) and giving him a proper characterization that's a mix of being Luigi's rival and moreover Wario's Dick Dastardly-type comedic partner, I think he fits in pretty well. Playable? I...don't know. Wario has the WarioWare fame to sneak in, and that's about the only reason aside from the fact that LoZ has so many representatives.

[Satoryu]

Their popularity is off the charts, and remember, SSB's favor the games of the previous generation.

N64 had Fox, Samus, Ness and Captain Falcon. Melee was just oozing with N64 references, with particular weight on LoZ. Brawl had a lot of Gamecube references, so far as throwing in Pikmin, SMS, and LM stages. Bitchslap would have Wii references, none the least of which would be Rosalina and Midna in some manner (Assist, Playable, Adventure, Stage Hazard, or otherwise).

no. the Smash games just use the most recent appearance of game characters. and in the next game, they play catch up with the things that came out after the previous version of Smash.

using the N64 game as an example doesn't work. that game was just picking out Nintendo all stars. and need i remind you Fox and Falcon already had games on the N64 when Smash came out.

Melee was a launch title. it couldn't use anything from the Gamecube because they were in development the same time Smash was. so they had to rely on Mario 64 and OoT and Majora. if Melee had entered development later in the Gamecube's lifespan, it's a safe bet there would have been actual content from Luigi's Mansion and Pikmin in there.

which explains why they're in Brawl, as well as Sunshine. Melee missed them, and HAL played catch up. if Brawl is calling back to the Gamecube, how come there's more Twilight Princess than Wind Waker? because TP was the most recent game. why was Ike picked as the new Fire Emblem guy? cause Path of Radiance was the most recent game. why was Roy in Melee? to promote Sealed Sword. and you're going to have a hell of a time explaining Pit and ROB.

if Twilight Princess was to come out later than Brawl, there'd be more Wind Waker and N64 stuff. if Path of Radiance hadn't come out, Ike certainly wouldn't have been there. if Diamond and Pearl hadn't come out, there'd be more from Ruby and Sapphire, and Mewtwo might still have been in the game. also, notice how there's a lack of Star Fox Adventures stuff? that's cause Assault and Command came out.

i highly doubt no new Zeldas or Marios will come out prior to the Smash. sure Rosalina and Midna could show up as assists. but as playable characters, it wouldn't likely happen because they wouldn't be fresh enough. they wouldn't be relevant.

[RockmanHalo]

Characters I'd like to see:
-Bionic Commando (Make him jump. It's not that hard...)
-Megaman (Obviously)
-Hell, if we're venturing out of Reg ninty goodness, put The Chief in....

Things I'd like done:
-Make a level like Pictochat, but have it able to be altered real-time via a DS. That'd be sweet.
-Online actually usable
-More freedom for the music. Xbox and 360 can do this, why can't we at least do the same with an SD card?
-More Custom options.
-HP Brawl needs to have a point. I like it, it should be implemented a LITTLE more. (1P does not count...)

[Fxeni]

I'd love to see some playable Golden Sun characters, but unless a sequel is being made, I hardly doubt it's gonna happen.

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

No mention of Earthworm Jim makes Cosake sad.

[Hypershell]

Well, discussion of characters and moves will take more time than I have at the moment, so I will return for that.  For now, the following play mechanics.

-No more tripping.
-Board The Platforms!
-Voice while online with Friends, although I absolutely do want the customizable taunts to stay as well; they have their own charm to them.  In fact, stick an option in there somewhere for whether or not to use them offline.
-Smash Balls should be in Adventure mode, I don't care how badly it'll break it.  The other solo modes in general need more Final Smash and less Dragoon.
-Stage Builder needs to take a serious step up.  Ease up on the restrictions: size, parts, and ESPECIALLY the empty space for scenery.  We could use some destructible blocks in there, too.  And allow the use of custom levels in Friend matches.
-Enable Special Brawls online, especially Super Sudden Death.
-*NEED* Smash64 Metal Mario music.
-User-entered soundtracks.
-Option to organize Team matches without the necessity for color changes.
-Bring back Score mode.
-Stickers as power-ups suck; the attack types are too overly specific.  As cool as more collectibles are, the dev time would be better spent elsewhere.
-Please undo the Home Run Bat nerf.
-Never, ever, ever, EVER get rid of Blast Boxes.

And even though it's character, I can't go without saying it:
-I MISS MY MEWTWO!!!

You know that's not going to be possible.

*smacks Sakura with his magical talking fish*


DEBATE OVER

NO MORE [tornado fang]ing BOMBS IN SUDDEN DEATH.

Hell no.  You can never have too many Bob-ombs.

~No convoluted Adventure Mode. Have an overarching story, just don't make it a platformer.

Personal preference should not by any means mandate the removal of a game mode.  I loved SSE.  If you don't like it, you don't have to play it, there aren't even any rewards exclusive to that mode anyway.

By no means am I saying that Bitchslap's adventure needs to be as long as Brawl's.  Trim it down if it's deemed necessary, even Melee's 20-minute Adventure was fun.  Da Dood's suggestion of a 3 Hour quest may be right on the mark.  But it should absolutely not be given the axe altogether.

~Buff the Shield. Yes, it's helpful against Metaknight, but I've had enough of trying to shield against attacks, then they still work. Shield cancels all until it runs out (hence, why even bother having the shield breaking in the first place). This will also give Heavy characters who already have a large/better shield the edge they apparently still need.

If that happens then Yoshi needs to be able to jump out of his shield; his inability to do so and longer shield transition time is the tradeoff for his immunity to shield-poking.

~Free up the camera! Naughty shots are going to happen no matter how much you try to avoid it, and it's not going to change the game's rating!!!
~And make snapshots JPG's or something usable! Really, Nintendo, ****!

God bless the hackers.
(see attachment)

[Solar]

What I want for SSB4:
[spoiler=Looooooooong post]
Characters:
Mario Bros.
-Mario
-Luigi
-Peach
-Bowser
-Wario
-Yoshi (yes, I know he has his own universe)
-Bowser Jr.

I like Bowser Jr., I didn't know he was so hated until Brawl was announced >_> He would be pretty different from his father because of his brush, and with his FS he could transform into a stronger shadow version of his opponent. Also, give Peach a Rosalina alt. costume complete with lumas and I'll be a happy person.

Legend of Zelda
-Link
-Zelda/Sheik
-Ganondorf
-Toon Link/Young Link
-Vaati

Vaati is the only recurring villain that's not Ganondorf that the series has had, he deserves to be in this. Buff Link, Zelda is fine as she is, declone Ganon and T./Y.Link even more. If T.Link is in then give him a moveset that has more to do with Windwaker, if it's Y. Link give him a moveset based on Majora's Mask, with Fierce Deity Link as an FS included.

Pokemon
-Pikachu
-Jigglypuff
-Pokemon Trainer
-Lucario
-Mewtwo

The Pokemon roster is fine as it is, just bring back a more powerful Mewtwo.

Star Fox
-Fox
-Falco
-Wolf
-Krystal

Krystal is there because the game needs more females, not to mention her staff could make for an interesting moveset. Also, declone more the space furries.

Metroid
-Samus/Zero Suit Samus
-Ridley

Yes I know what you'll say about Ridley, "he's too big," but guess what? IIRC Charizard is twice the size of PKMN Trainer, Kirby is tiny, Bowser's size changes A LOT, and Olimar is as big as a quarter, and yet they're kicking ass in Brawl.

Donkey Kong
-Donkey Kong
-Diddy Kong
-King K. Rool

I hope I don't need to explain this.

Kirby
-Kirby
-King Dedede
-Meta Knight

Nerf Meta Knight and everything's perfect.

Fire Emblem
-Marth
-Roy
-Ike
-Ephraim/any JP only lord with a lance as a main weapon that I don't know of.

Bring back Roy and declone. Give Ike's Aether a little more horizontal range, please? Also, add Ephraim; he has a lance, he wouldn't be just another sword user.

Mother/Earthbound
-Ninten
-Ness
-Lucas

I'm incredibly surprised at the lack of love for the original Mother game in Smash. Also, declone all of them.

F-Zero
-Captain Falcon
-Black Shadow

We need more villains and more F-Zero reps, Black Shadow fills perfectly.

Others
-Pit (Kid Icarus)
-Ice Climbers
-Pikmin and Olimar (Pikmin; why the hell did they get rid of the Pikmin part in the NA version?)
-ROB
-Isaac (Golden Sun)
-Little Mac (Punch Out!)
-Saki (Sin & Punishment)
-Captain Rainbow

I decided to group all of them together instead of naming them one by one. Everyone that was in Brawl stays. Captain Rainbow is there because he's awesome and there haven't been many new Nintendo IPs since Pikmin. Isaac, Little Mac, and Saki need to upgrade from AT to playable. Come on, you all know you want to play as Little Mac 

Third Parties
-Solid Snake (Konami, Metal Gear)
-Simon Belmont (Konami, Castlevania)
-Sonic (SEGA, Sonic the Hedgehog)
-Alex Kidd (Sega, Alex Kidd)
-(Original) Megaman (Capcom, Megaman)
-Captain Commando (Capcom, Captain Commando)

On Konami's side, Snake stays, and Simon Belmont (anyone's version is ok to me), being from another popular series of the company, enters to kick ass together with him. On Sega's side, Sonic stays, with Alex Kidd, his predecesor as Sega's mascot, joining him; I'd add Segata Sanshiro, but that'd me much more than the disc could handle. Obviously, Capcom needs to be added to this; Megaman joins the battle for obvious reasons, with CapCom joining to make it 2 characters for each company, and because he was Capcom's previous mascot; Ryu should be saved for a Nintendo VS Capcom.

Non character stuff
-Remove tripping
-Improve the adventure mode, and no matter what, it MUST stay without dialogue.
-Either improve the sticker system, or remove it.
-IS IT TOO MUCH TO ASK FOR A GOOD TROPHY SELECTION THIS TIME AROUND?!
-Better online.
-Voice chat with friends.
-RETURN BOARD THE PLATFORMS AND RUN TO THE FINISH!!!
[/spoiler]

Well, discussion of characters and moves will take more time than I have at the moment, so I will return for that.  For now, the following play mechanics.

-No more tripping.
-Board The Platforms!
-Voice while online with Friends, although I absolutely do want the customizable taunts to stay as well; they have their own charm to them.  In fact, stick an option in there somewhere for whether or not to use them offline.
-Smash Balls should be in Adventure mode, I don't care how badly it'll break it.  The other solo modes in general need more Final Smash and less Dragoon.
-Stage Builder needs to take a serious step up.  Ease up on the restrictions: size, parts, and ESPECIALLY the empty space for scenery.  We could use some destructible blocks in there, too.  And allow the use of custom levels in Friend matches.
-Enable Special Brawls online, especially Super Sudden Death.
-*NEED* Smash64 Metal Mario music.
-User-entered soundtracks.
-Option to organize Team matches without the necessity for color changes.
-Bring back Score mode.
-Stickers as power-ups suck; the attack types are too overly specific.  As cool as more collectibles are, the dev time would be better spent elsewhere.
-Please undo the Home Run Bat nerf.
-Never, ever, ever, EVER get rid of Blast Boxes.

And even though it's character, I can't go without saying it:
-I MISS MY MEWTWO!!!
*smacks Sakura with his magical talking fish*


DEBATE OVER
Hell no.  You can never have too many Bob-ombs.
Personal preference should not by any means mandate the removal of a game mode.  I loved SSE.  If you don't like it, you don't have to play it, there aren't even any rewards exclusive to that mode anyway.

By no means am I saying that Bitchslap's adventure needs to be as long as Brawl's.  Trim it down if it's deemed necessary, even Melee's 20-minute Adventure was fun.  Da Dood's suggestion of a 3 Hour quest may be right on the mark.  But it should absolutely not be given the axe altogether.
If that happens then Yoshi needs to be able to jump out of his shield; his inability to do so and longer shield transition time is the tradeoff for his immunity to shield-poking.
God bless the hackers.
(see attachment)

This man speaks truth.

[HyperSonicEXE]

SSE was too long, and the story was such a mish-mash that the story didn't really hold up.

And all the "O LOL THE BAD GUY'S GETTING AWAY" didn't help its case, either.

[Jericho]

Holy crap Hypershell & especially Taiyo, you both are thinking along the same terms that I am. I'm impressed.

Now then, I'm about to do the next set guys, but what I would like to know is whether or not I should stick to the series-by-series breakdowns or just post an all inclusive list with smaller "bullet point" reasoning?

[Satoryu]

do the whole damn thing.

[Jericho]

Will do Captain.

[Ninja Lou]

SSE was too long, and the story was such a mish-mash that the story didn't really hold up.

And all the "O LOL THE BAD GUY'S GETTING AWAY" didn't help its case, either.

Too long?? I didn't think it was long enough. Also you didn't even need to play it to unlock the characters. I think SSE should have been longer. What I would change is the Co-op. I think they could have done a better job with it.  Player 2 didn't really feel like a player to me, more like a bot. Just like Tails felt in Sonic 2/3 if someone were to plug in a controller and use him.

[Jericho]

If we're talking SSE, I only have three real gripes with it. First off is "Metaknight, Dedede, & Kirby in: The Subspace Emissary". There was waaaay too much emphasis on the Kirby side of the Nintendo spectrum for a game that was otherwise loaded with some of the greatest Nintendo fan service ever.

Secondly, there was a big lack of game themed environments and minor enemies in most of the story. No, a generic ruined castle does not represent or suit Altea's finest (Marth), nor does a would-be Angel Island in the sky suit anyone not named Sonic (Seriously, why were the ROBs in charge of that island when a Sonic connection was screaming to be used there?) The same arguement could also be made for series enemies (which could have added to the sense of nostalgia and fanservice) being replaced by generic beat-em-up cannon fodder.

The last thing, which is pretty minor and something that I understood not happening in Brawl, would be to make the co-op mode online only because it would have been a crazy experience. (Not like it wasn't on my end with my younger bro asking me every other second "What game is this music from?" )

[Solar]

Holy crap Hypershell & especially Taiyo, you both are thinking along the same terms that I am. I'm impressed.

Didn't we discover that during our JTV days?

If we're talking SSE, I only have three real gripes with it. First off is "Metaknight, Dedede, & Kirby in: The Subspace Emissary". There was waaaay too much emphasis on the Kirby side of the Nintendo spectrum for a game that was otherwise loaded with some of the greatest Nintendo fan service ever.

I think that was Sakurai's way of telling us "Oh, you think there's not enough Kirby in Smash? Well, have too much Kirby then!"

Secondly, there was a big lack of game themed environments and minor enemies in most of the story. No, a generic ruined castle does not represent or suit Altea's finest (Marth), nor does a would-be Angel Island in the sky suit anyone not named Sonic (Seriously, why were the ROBs in charge of that island when a Sonic connection was screaming to be used there?) The same arguement could also be made for series enemies (which could have added to the sense of nostalgia and fanservice) being replaced by generic beat-em-up cannon fodder.

Agreed, hell, they even showed the generic cannon fodder being able to completely mimic the fighters, couldn't they have done the same with the enemies?

[Protoman Blues]

Before I begin, I'd just love to point out that I think that Brawl is the perfect example of a game which shows that gamers are never, ever satisfied!   

Also, that I, Protoman Blues, own Copyright over the name & title of Super Smash Bros. Bitchslap!   

If and when Bitchslap comes around, I already know the first thing I want.  NO Smash Bros. Dojo.  That's right, you heard me.  I don't want another Daily Updated Smash Bros. Dojo.  After the last one, I don't think that #1. gamers deserve it & #2. the game should be incredibly hyped up as it was.  I mean, I was buying it day 1, as was pretty much the vast majority of Wii owners out there.  It was a very very nice gesture by Ninty, but I agree with what STM said a while ago, about how awesome it would've been if we didn't know Sonic was in the game and how sweet the surprise would've been in SSE.

With that out of the way, lets move on.  The first thing I would change with Bitchslap is the slipping.  It really serves no purpose.  It also makes NO sense to slip when THROWING AN ITEM, or attempting too and THEN slipping.  It needs to be removed like Cloud AIDS needs to be removed from Mario Kart Wii.  (Heh, the changes for Mario Kart MPH would be immense.) 

The next change I would make are to allow for Crosshair use over Analog.  Granted, it was great that they allowed for more controller options, but it would've been nice to use the Crosshairs over the Analog stick.  Simply switch the Taunts to the Analog, and I think we'd be sound as a pound.

I have no issue at all with SSE.  The only thing I'd suggest for that is Online Co-Op, with 2-4 players.  While we're at it, do that for all the Challenges and the reg. Smash Bros run through as well. 

Regarding online play, I think we can all agree that there needs to be a Bitchslap Channel just like there was a Mario Kart Channel.  Not just for Lag either, but for Updated Challenges and all that kinda stuff as well. 

I agree with Hypershell that Stage Builder needs to A. have a lot more diversity & B. be allowed for online play.  Nintendo doesn't have to worry about all the [ray splasher] shaped levels there will be.  That's the whole purpose of Friend Codes to begin with.  Also, you're Nintendo for fucks sake...  PUT IN SOME DAMN CLASSIC 8-BIT BACKGROUNDS and [parasitic bomb].  I mean, come on.  Making a level with a Super Mario Bros. 3 background would've been so damn sexy.  Make it happen, Bitchslap! 

In Bitchslap, reward those who broke every Glass Shelf without using any of the Golden Hammer.  Perhaps a Golden Mii Trophy or something.  LoL, I don't know!  We [tornado fang]ing deserve something for some of that [parasitic bomb]!   

Okay, I think that's it for Technical stuff.  Onto Characters in my next post.

[Da Dood]

If you ask me, it doesn't look like Nintendo will add many more third party characters. Snake and Sonic have that whole "extra" something to them, like they're honorable guests for this one party. But I hope I'm wrong.

Some of my ideas for a Smash roster:

Mario
- Mario
- Luigi
- Peach
- Bowser
- Rosalina

Rosalina was very well received by the public, she has a wand, Lumas could help with some of the fighting (Spin, Red Star, Prankster Comets, TRANSFOOOORMations...). But honestly, the main four are more than great representation.

DK
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- King K. Rool

They need to pull the DK vibe back to the Country days. Rool is a good symbol of the DKC universe and he can throw his freakin' crown at people. And I'm sure we'd all go nuts with a Bramble Scramble level in Smash.

Zelda
- Link
- Zelda/Sheik
- Ganondorf
- Midna

I know Midna isn't exactly unanimous, but her hair just screams potential. I'd also give Ganondorf his own fighting style.

Metroid
- Samus
- Zero Suit Samus
- Dark Samus
- Ridley

They just have to work Ridley in there. Dark Samus would be very easy to implement.

Star Fox
- Fox
- Falco
- Wolf
- Andross

I have the craziest idea for Andross as a WTF character in Smash. Like Pokémon Trainer, he would stay at the background the way he does in the original game and 64, and we'd control all sorts of stylish debris like pixelated blocks, monkey cubes and Arwings. It's a very WTF idea and I'm obviously just throwing it out there, but my point is that it'd be interesting to counter the Fox clone flood with something absurd. Original Final Smashes, please!

Third Party
- Mega Man
- Dante
- Simon Belmont
- Pyramid Head

Oh man, goddamn Pyramid Head. Sweet Great Knife action.

Others
- Little Mac
- Tabuu

I would keep all "other" fighters from Brawl (Pit, R.O.B., Wario, Ice Climbers...). Little Mac is a no brainer. And hey, I like Tabuu.

[Ninja Lou]

Before I begin, I'd just love to point out that I think that Brawl is the perfect example of a game which shows that gamers are never, ever satisfied!   

No matter what comes out there is always room for improvement. There are plenty of game designers like us too. They are never satisfied and are always trying to improve upon what they have already created. I think it is a good quality as long as it doesn't turn into a whine fest.

[Jericho]

No matter what comes out there is always room for improvement. There are plenty of game designers like us too. They are never satisfied and are always trying to improve upon what they have already created. I think it is a good quality as long as it doesn't turn into a whine fest.

This is the mindset that i love the most. It's not so much a never pleased situation with me so much as endless possibilities and how they'd be amazing. Secondly PB, as much as I know I agree with you on having no Dojo, a part of me wants the new Smash just to relive the "Japan Time" antics. Yay, going for a English final without sleep 4 hours after after finding out Sonic was in!

The third parties, extra characters, and how to unlock them should stay totally secret though throughout the first year or so as a throwback to the days when gamers played and found things out by themselves.

[Solar]

No matter what comes out there is always room for improvement. There are plenty of game designers like us too. They are never satisfied and are always trying to improve upon what they have already created. I think it is a good quality as long as it doesn't turn into a whine fest.

Oh, that is quite true, but in this case it is the dark side of things that is shown. There is more complaining than "I want this to be improved."

Secondly PB, as much as I know I agree with you on having no Dojo, a part of me wants the new Smash just to relive the "Japan Time" antics. Yay, going for a English final without sleep 4 hours after after finding out Sonic was in!

Agreed

[Akamaru]

Before I begin, I'd just love to point out that I think that Brawl is the perfect example of a game which shows that gamers are never, ever satisfied!  

Hey, people tried fixing the game themselves with hacks and that got people nearly sued by Nintendo. All we can do is complain.

Speaking of hacks, these should be more options in regards to costumes. or at least let us choose the colors. Not the generic, black, red, green, blue, and yellow costumes. Something similar to Link's Dark Link costume or Wario's retro costume.

[Hypershell]

Yeah, I don't think I mentioned Adventure Mode being online, did I?  Bitchslap needs that like Peach needs her dancing taunt; sure the game will live without it, but the win is undeniable.

Just like Tails felt in Sonic 2/3 if someone were to plug in a controller and use him.

Ironically enough that's some of my favorite co-op.  You just have to be considerate if you're playing as Sonic.  Smash is actually a little better in that department, I think.  The second player is more involved, and more vulnerable, but still not prone to Contra-esque fall off the screen deaths.  The fact that the second player has to keep near the first player, and can warp to them at will, is probably the only reason my amateur gamer fiance agreed to play the game a second time with me.

Secondly, there was a big lack of game themed environments and minor enemies in most of the story. No, a generic ruined castle does not represent or suit Altea's finest (Marth), nor does a would-be Angel Island in the sky suit anyone not named Sonic (Seriously, why were the ROBs in charge of that island when a Sonic connection was screaming to be used there?) The same arguement could also be made for series enemies (which could have added to the sense of nostalgia and fanservice) being replaced by generic beat-em-up cannon fodder.

While I agree with this, I would want to caution against taking it to too far an extreme, that is giving each character their own segregated world.  We have the games they came from for that, and the mish-mash is all part of the fun in Smash.  SSE extended that into a fantastic presentation.  I just can't tell you how great it felt, watching Yoshi meet up with Link (that sleep-deprived face when Yoshi looks at the screen on character select cracks me up every time), or seeing Pikachu shock Ridley.

If and when Bitchslap comes around, I already know the first thing I want.  NO Smash Bros. Dojo.  That's right, you heard me.  I don't want another Daily Updated Smash Bros. Dojo.  After the last one, I don't think that #1. gamers deserve it & #2. the game should be incredibly hyped up as it was.  I mean, I was buying it day 1, as was pretty much the vast majority of Wii owners out there.  It was a very very nice gesture by Ninty, but I agree with what STM said a while ago, about how awesome it would've been if we didn't know Sonic was in the game and how sweet the surprise would've been in SSE.

It's not like I don't see your logic, much of the Dojo was junk anyway.  Periodic show/news updates through conventional means works just fine.

But regarding Sonic, we *ALL* know there is no way anyone would keep a lid on his presence.  It's too much marketing fuel, even if day one is the only time it makes a difference.  Guest character owners would probably insist on some mentioning on the package, as well.  MAYBE they could revise the packaging after launch if they really wanted to be sneaky, but that's unlikely.  A bombshell like that would never survive the internet, anyway.  Even though, yes, I can imagine the fanboyish orgasm at seeing Sonic's SSE appearance with no clue he'd be featured, his announcement video was equally awesome (God bless whoever chose Live And Learn for that BGM; *PERFECT* choice).

[Jericho]

So here begins round 3 of this wild speculation game. Here are my thoughts:

 Characters
- Donkey Kong
- Diddy Kong
- Dixie Kong
- King K. Rool

No long history lessons this time folks. That's good for me since I don't have to come up with something as elaborate as the last two groups.

Now then, the reasoning for these guys is pretty straightforward. The Donkey Kong series has gone without full representation for quite some time now. It wasn't until Brawl that the notion of a playable Diddy Kong came to fruition for crying out loud! This series has one of the most profound influences on gaming in general (beginnings in Donkey Kong arcade, Donkey Kong Country's huge splash, Donkey Kong Country 2 for nostalgic gaming's sake and awesome music ). There's also the idea that it's Nintendo’s 4th highest selling franchise behind Mario, Pokemon, & Legend of Zelda. So then, why is this series so highly under represented in Smash? You tell me.

Talking about the characters that need to be added though is pretty easy this time as well. Dixie Kong who pretty much came on the scene in one of the more memorable DKC games (Donkey Kong Country 2) and came into her own in the lesser but solid Donkey Kong Country 3 just sounds like a perfect fit. Her interesting character design would also lend way into a very interesting and unique fighting style. (Because seriously, using your hair to whip opponents just sounds hilarious and awesome after thinking about how well done Diddy was in Brawl.)

Then there's King K. Rool, the quirky but pivotal antagonist force for the Kongs. Leader of the Kremlings and seemingly always out to cause the Kongs trouble, you would think that he'd be the best fit for the mold of “series bad guy” that most franchises represented in Smash have gotten as of Brawl. He's certainly not going to be taken to the extreme of Bowser or Ganondorf in terms of badassery, but he's not going to be overly quirky like Wario or Dedede either, he'd be best suited settling in that middle ground with a moveset that reflects this nature.

Now the last thing that needs to be mentioned is whether or not you all think the DK series is big enough to warrant 4 reps and if not, who gets the 3rd spot? Discuss.