[News] No New Game for 25th Anniversary (Probably)

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Reply #25 on: September 16, 2012, 11:27:52 AM
So, if Mirby turns out to be wrong, then all we can expect for the 25th anniversary--a goddamned milestone celebration in any medium--is an overpriced soundtrack collection of music we already have for free, a shitacular-looking iPhone game that might not be a good crossover, and despair. Despair and lots of it.

I'm gonna quote what Magnet_Man of TMMN had to say on this, for he speaks the truth:

But Starforce 3 came out in 2008 after Advent. Unless they aren't counting that Timeline (No reason not to, honestly.) And if you really want to push it OSS was in 2009.



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Reply #26 on: September 16, 2012, 04:39:47 PM
Well, yeah, but OSS was Japan-only.

As for Star Force, eh, partial credit.  When Battle Network took off it was mainly because the whole card-collecting/trading thing, and didn't necessarily speak to the same audience as the "Jump N' Shoot Man!" fans.  The transition to Star Force severed what little aesthetic ties remained to bridge that gap.  Legends at least has the same basic principle as the classic games going for it, just on a different kind of playing field.

Capcom is proving that they have no damn clue how to make a "golden age" character relevant to modern gaming again.  They don't know how to do a New Super Mario Bros., a Kid Icarus, or even a Sonic 4 for that matter.  They can copy the past pixel-for-pixel (see MM9), but when stepping outside of that, they are entirely too eager to uproot the entire aesthetic of the franchise (X8, Powered Up, Universe, is it any wonder we got tired of the "visual reboots" after a while?).  Legends was EXACTLY what they needed: Fresh gameplay with a familiar face, not the other way around.  Unfortunately, the valid point can be made that the audience is far more open to such "experiments" when they're struggling to find early showcase titles for their shiny new system.  Missing the e-Shop launch was a terrible, terrible mistake, and as much as I want Legends 3 back, the longer it takes the more damage it's going to do to all parties concerned.

So far as the anniversary goes, I'm not at all surprised.  I knew that the timeframe for any whole-assed game was simply not there.  It was, in my mind, Legends 3 revival or bust.  Once you realize that, it's pretty obvious where we'll most likely end up.  Hopefully I can distract myself with the WiiU.  The magical 25th birthday is just going to leave us exactly where we were 14 months ago: Mega Man is alive and well, as a licensing tool.



Oh yes, and if I may bore you all long enough, I have a cross-post of my own to share.  It's basically my response to Capcom's continued requests that we "be patient", from one of the most recent Ask Capcom threads on the topic:

Quote
You know, the fans are anything but patient.  They are completely impatient.  More than that, they're obnoxious, petty, and never satisfied.  They don't appreciate anything they have, and you can't say a damn thing to please them.  And you know what?  Capcom, you brought it on yourselves.

My apologies to Sven; CoA has been the most sympathetic of Capcom's branches by far.  I know what a "taboo" topic Legends 3 is.  But all of the demands, all of the childish behavior, all of the complaining about Mega Man's absence from UMvC3, the backlash over Bad Box Art Mega Man in SFxT, and the constant whining that a cell phone game using a proven poor engine is IN NO WAY an appropriate celebration for a quarter-century franchise, we all know where it started.

Ever since the DS took off, Mega Man's been on a slow decline.  ZX, Star Force, Powered Up, Maverick Hunter X, all "good enough" for us, but not quite hitting it off with the gaming market as a whole.  They were "good" games, but the passion was lost.  Capcom got a spark back with Mega Man 9, but they failed to maintain it.  For as novel an idea as reverting back to the 1980's was, even fans of the golden age want a bit more than a new NES game.

And then we found it.  Inafune and co. had only to say, "it's a game you've all been waiting for", and nothing else, they already knew our answer.  Suddenly a dream from ages past was alive again, an unreal passion was ignited the likes of which the last hardware generation had never seen.  Capcom asked for our help in making it reality, and for nine months we offered all we could, with nothing but good faith in return.  We were told to be patient, even when the future was uncertain, with the promise that even if worst came to worst we would at least get a small glimpse of this dream before we had to lay it to rest once more.  Then suddenly it was all taken away.  Not just the game, but even the mere opportunity of the prologue, was ripped away from us with no word as to why.

That may be acceptable to employees of the gaming industry, who sacrafice their passion to the bitter realities in which they are immersed, in exchange for the roof over their heads.  But to the fans who were invited along for the ride, who had only their trust in Capcom to keep them going, that doesn't cut it.

So the question on my mind, the question on every fan's mind ever since that day 14 months ago, is what do you, Capcom, intend to do about it?  What do you intend to offer, what CAN you offer, that either of us can even hope will possibly compare to what was lost?  Games get cancelled all the time, yes, but this was not just any game.  Universe was cancelled, we got over it.  Is that what you're waiting for?  For us to "get over" Legends so that Mega Man can return to his usual mediocrity?  Because the thought has occurred to us, and I think that's what frightens and offends us more than anything else.  Legends 3 was an event over a decade in the making, it will not be forgotten so easily.

We're already been holding onto Legends with virtually no support for 12 years.  If you're waiting for us to let go, then you will be waiting a long, long time.

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Offline Treleus

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Reply #27 on: September 16, 2012, 06:47:39 PM
I thought this post of yours from the same thread was pretty informative. I'd rather it not go to waste:

Quote
On the whole "anniversary collection" thing, we already had that at #15.  X and Zero series collections followed later.  I don't consider its absence any big loss, unless of course we're talking about the Legends series or the Gameboy line (though the latter will likely continue to appear on 3DS's virtual console in due time).

Quote
I wouldn't say that people saying that MegaMan is 'dead' or that Capcom 'hates MegaMan' after only 1 game cancelled and 1 not greenlit as being 'patient'

You're misinformed, Deva.  The Prototype Version was approved as per the February 2011 greenlight meeting, it was the retail Legends 3 that was not yet given the ok (and by the way, on the whole "Devroom opening up game development to the fans" topic, why did it take four months before we were even TOLD that the game hadn't yet gotten approval?).  That is a solid two cancellations in addition to the failed greenlight.  Further, the "failed greenlight" was given behind closed doors as opposed to the aforementioned reported February 2011 meeting, during which time the fans had been told that the Prototype Version's reception would determine the retail game's greenlight status.  How is that read as anything but a stab in the back?

What's disturbing, though, isn't the quantity, but rather the fact that Capcom did such a thing without having any other projects in reserve.  I can't fault someone who finds that a cause for concern.  Now, is Mega Man dead?  Absolutely not.  Even if Capcom were to cease making games, they still license him out, and things have actually been going amazingly well on that front for the last couple of years.

But I can't blame people for being scared.  I can't fault them for thinking that the games, the core of Mega Man, are going the way of the dinosaur.  Capcom dealt them a critical blow, and has since done nothing to reassure them.  Capcom has kind words, and they ask for our patience, fine and dandy.  But they did the exact same thing when the Prototype Version was "delayed", and we all know how that ended.

Oh, and about Darkstalkers.  No, this isn't a competition between franchises, and I find such an idea to be a waste of time.  But I wanted to quickly say that I, for one, would kill for a Legends equivalent to this.

I wasn't aware of an actual approval meeting. That's just more evidence to show that Capcom forced the cancellation after an agreement was met.



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Reply #28 on: September 16, 2012, 07:21:47 PM
A chess set, a collection all Street Fighter games available for current consoles + goodies (anime, a statue, music, art book, etc), and worlwide tournaments with cash prizes of a $500,000 total + A [tornado fang]ing SPORTS CAR for a game that its own fandom hates for the most part.

Gee I wonder which franchise is Capcom's favorite.

And the fact that they pour ALL their effort to make add extra game modes to Street Fighter's current engine really shows it.. Not. It's fanbase still hates them because it's "not the same as Street Fighter II".

By this point I'm really just not looking for another Jump and Shoot Guy game, which what many fans seem to want which could be the reason WHY capcom decided to can both games and give us a shoddy game: They ran out of ideas what to do with Mega Man, and Legends 3 was the closest thing to a saving grace.

What I am looking for is the fans to let go of the "don't fix what ain't broke" notion, as that notion itself is a double-edged sword.

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.


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Reply #29 on: September 16, 2012, 10:49:26 PM
Well, there is definitely some truth to that.  But sometimes it takes a keen eye to tell what is and isn't broke.

I wasn't aware of an actual approval meeting. That's just more evidence to show that Capcom forced the cancellation after an agreement was met.
Oh, it's damn well FACT that they did that.

It's sad how much ignorance and disinformation was spread among people who didn't follow the Devroom blog religiously.  Well, the short and sweet of it: February 2011 was the original series of meetings to determine Legends 3's greenlight status (the Devroom had been in full swing for four months at this point).  The end result of the meeting was an extension of the game's trial period.

The Prototype itself was the direct result of that meeting, as was announced some time later by Director Eguchi.  The idea was, since the general public had been for quite some time asked to contribute to a game they knew nothing about, to give them the chance to see the progress thus far for themselves (previously this was attempted at a Japanese event scheduled for March 29, but it was cancelled in light of the earthquake).  The "marketed" Prototype was based off of the greenlight meeting build, and the reaction to it would be used to determine the retail game's greenlight status.

Coverage of the meeting spanned five of Kinako's reports in addition shout-outs from Eguchi and Kitabayashi.  Even though getting screenshots or any "real" information about the game back then was like pulling teeth, the folks at Capcom at the very least understood that this was a big deal to the Devroomers and deserved a large amount of attention (though it was unfortunate that at no point prior to these entries was the fact that the game was not yet greenlit ever disclosed, so at the time there was a bit of confusion over what exactly that meant).  Naturally, dropping the axe out of the blue after all of this came off as a large offense to the fanbase.
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/15/a_declaration_of_resolve
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/15/kinakos_daily_report_47
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/16/kinakos_daily_report_48
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/17/kinakos_daily_report_49
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/18/kinakos_daily_report_50
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/22/kinakos_daily_report_51
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/02/24/our_greenlight_meeting_results

And then, the big one (emphasis added):
http://www.capcom-unity.com/devroom/blog/2011/04/21/big_announcement
Quote
We took this prototype game, full of potential, and showed it off at the greenlight meeting. As hoped, Barrett’s reception was top-notch. What a response! And yet. . . it’s really difficult to determine just how well-received a sequel to a 10-year-old series will be.

This is where the Mega Man Legends Developer Room comes in. Planned as a place where users could get in on the development process, we knew there was some way we could utilize this to help our project succeed. We ended up reaching an unprecedented agreement. As it happens, it was decided that the prototype version of the game we had submitted within the company would be sold as a downloadable—“Mega Man Legends 3 Prototype Version”. Furthermore, the heat and excitement surrounding this downloadable title would determine whether or not the full game could be greenlit. If hype is strong, the full title will be a go. If not, it’s a no-go. I don’t even want to think about that outcome!

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Offline Gaia

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Reply #30 on: September 16, 2012, 11:06:50 PM
What I don't get is where the current standards sit between not broken and need to be fixed, thus like you said making it hard to pinpoint to tell what needs to be fixed as we look back to the games that were made 25 years ago, I can go on.

 

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.


Offline Treleus

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Reply #31 on: September 17, 2012, 01:01:41 AM
Nothing's really broken about the formula, it's just worn. Needs a break. ZX varied it by going fully non-linear and giving you a selection of forms instead of weapons, but it also overlaid an unnecessary mission layer over everything and still retained the 8-stages 8-bosses paradigm. The whole thing was a bit clunky. Mega Man needs a solid new experience.

Super Megamantroid please. :)



Offline Acid

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Reply #32 on: September 17, 2012, 01:28:53 AM
Personally, I wouldn't mind another RPG attempt. One that doesn't keep the 8-bosses then the final stages concept.



Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #33 on: September 17, 2012, 01:47:31 AM
If we had to keep the 8 bosses format, why not add an intermediate area where paths to certain RMs required specific weapons to clear? Not like MMnB's stage select screen, but an actual area that Megaman can walk around in (be it similar to the boss transporters or not).

Might be too similar to ZERO or ZX, but I don't think it's been done in Classic yet.



Offline Acid

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Reply #34 on: September 17, 2012, 02:22:36 AM
If we had to keep the 8 bosses format, why not add an intermediate area where paths to certain RMs required specific weapons to clear? Not like MMnB's stage select screen, but an actual area that Megaman can walk around in (be it similar to the boss transporters or not).

Isn't this, essentially, the concept of Metroid/Metroidvanias?



Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #35 on: September 17, 2012, 02:53:32 AM
Isn't this, essentially, the concept of Metroid/Metroidvanias?

I guess; I was thinking of a much smaller scale.



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Reply #36 on: September 17, 2012, 03:36:28 AM
That's sounds like a small aesthetic change then, Megaman needs something bigger in order to survive... or revive to be more precise.

There are many things that could be done with the Megaman series, the problem is that Capcom isn't willing to take any risk on the series, so until that happens this is going to be a dead franchise.


Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #37 on: September 17, 2012, 03:54:07 AM
Ah. :/

What would it take for Capcom to try something new? Running out of franchises to make sequels/upgrades out of?



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Reply #38 on: September 17, 2012, 04:15:37 AM
CAPCOM
Disappointing fans since the fall of Inafune.

Yeah lets blame the plane that crashes not the pilot that left



Offline Treleus

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Reply #39 on: September 17, 2012, 04:24:23 AM
What makes you think he's flying that airship?



Offline The Great Gonzo

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Reply #40 on: September 17, 2012, 04:41:08 AM
Yeah lets blame the plane that crashes not the pilot that left

If by "pilot" you mean Inafune...if he remained on that plane, he'd most likely be suffering from the emotional exhaustion of having to deal with that obnoxious crew 24/7.



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Reply #41 on: September 17, 2012, 06:23:15 AM
before he pushed 5 out the door and it sold like hotcakes

uh-huh



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Reply #42 on: September 18, 2012, 02:29:11 AM
If by "pilot" you mean Inafune...if he remained on that plane, he'd most likely be suffering from the emotional exhaustion of having to deal with that obnoxious crew 24/7.
I'm sure that if Inafune thought he was doing his best work in Capcom, he wouldn't have left.

But I dunno.  I think that on the particular plane we call "X-series", he's got a point.  Inafune never seemed to give a damn about that one after X4.

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Offline Treleus

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Reply #43 on: September 18, 2012, 03:57:12 AM
It's like that scene from The Last Crusade where Indy and his dad escape from the zeppelin on the fighter plane. The blimp is the X series and the fighter plane is the Zero series.

Or the blimp is Capcom, Indy and his dad are Keiji Inafune and Shinji Mikami, and the fighter plane is just for schits and giggles. Although I like to think of Inafune being the one manning the guns, given that he left Capcom after giving them and the Japanese game industry a verbal wringing.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #44 on: September 18, 2012, 06:05:56 AM
And Rockman Xover is Kingdom of the Crystal Skull



Offline Joseph Collins

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Reply #45 on: September 18, 2012, 06:15:01 AM
Zing.

I dunno.  Maybe we'll get lucky and Capcom will come out of nowhere with some extravagant celebratory thing that blows everyone away.  Like... they release Mega Man Universe, Legends 3, and take the reigns on Rockman Online for release.

...  I just jinxed it.  :(



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Reply #46 on: September 18, 2012, 06:21:54 AM
Anything's possible. However, I doubt it!



Offline Mirby

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Reply #47 on: September 18, 2012, 06:52:06 AM
no new game

instead it's x zone getting localized.

it's not a new game it's one we knew about :P

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Offline Solar

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Reply #48 on: September 18, 2012, 06:56:12 AM
no new game

instead it's x zone getting localized.

it's not a new game it's one we knew about :P

If that'd happen then it'd just keep showing how everyone can handle the MM franchise better than Capcom itself.


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Reply #49 on: September 18, 2012, 07:16:15 AM
If that'd happen then it'd just keep showing how everyone can handle the MM franchise better than Capcom itself.
which would be hilarious :P

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