Mega Man X: Corrupted (flash fangame)

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Offline Night

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Reply #1225 on: April 28, 2011, 04:49:53 AM
I think to understand how hard it would be, we would need to know how JKB makes X change color when switching weapons. Does he have separate sprite bit-maps for each color?



Offline Turian

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Reply #1226 on: April 28, 2011, 05:17:20 AM
There is more to it than just one sprite set per color. The armor combinations alone are daunting.



Offline Align

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Reply #1227 on: April 28, 2011, 02:52:53 PM
Yeah. We're not talking a hundred sprite sets here, we're talking hundreds of thousands.
If you did it manually, I mean.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1228 on: April 28, 2011, 07:14:07 PM
Having a separate set of sprites for each color is n00btastic. I hope to hell that's not how he does it.

Though, the time it takes to recolor isn't much of an issue at that point, as basic (and free) art programs can do those kinds of recolors in a few minutes tops. When you're dealing with separate body parts and sheets for each, with each color, that is a LOT of ram to be using. It is a giant resource vortex, which no system can escape. Completely wasteful, not to mention severely amateurish.


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Offline Meritur

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Reply #1229 on: April 28, 2011, 07:15:56 PM
Well we will see if he replays.
But i dont thing that he have one separate spirit for every posible combination.
It would be more like in the originall games where the armore pice is loaded as a seperate spirit over X-body.
(Thats why the underarmor still switch colors at least in the original games)

@OBJECTION MAN
A first class objecttion, OBJECTION MAN!  owob
Altho if you think about it, OBJECTION MAN. If you change the colors in real time it will serverly slow down the gameplay.
SO OBJECTION MAN, i give an objection to you also!

(Sry i could not stop myself :P )



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1230 on: April 28, 2011, 07:32:04 PM
That depends on how you go about doing it. I'm not up on my Flash, since it's a really weak platform for a serious or complicated game development, but I would imagine there is some way to do it much less without tanking performance.

In DirectX, for example, there are many ways to go about it, some of which are fast as lightning.

It's all up to the skill of the programmer. It's all about problem solving.


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Offline JKB Games

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Reply #1231 on: April 28, 2011, 07:47:03 PM
In Flash it's not too easy to switch palettes, but there is a way to tint the whole image with a color.
So what I have is:
1 sprite for each armor part;
1 white/gray sprite for armor color;
1 white/gray sprite for under-armor color.

So I just change the hue on the white/gray sprite to the color I want. This wouldn't work on the armor parts because they already have colors and it would only be making it worse. So if I was to make each part change color we're looking at 8 times the amount of sprites X has, which is a lot now.



Offline Meritur

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Reply #1232 on: April 28, 2011, 08:51:05 PM
So in the end it comes down to eigther dont do it at all, recoloring or coming up with something else to sice that matter.
Well we will go down with  :cookie:  :cookie: :cookie: till JKB and his team have decided what to do.



Offline OBJECTION MAN

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Reply #1233 on: April 29, 2011, 12:09:50 AM
Aha, so that's the method you use, color modulation. Yes, that wouldn't help much at all for armors, and it severely limits your palette options for X himself.

There is no way to change the color, or replace the color, of a texture/bitmap/whatever flash calls it?


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Offline Meritur

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Reply #1234 on: April 29, 2011, 07:26:45 PM
I have no idea of programming but as far i get it: You have H and P armor with color that you cant change.
And you have X as white/grey guy how gets his colors by the weapon you select trough the color modulation, right?

SO then you could make another set of H and P armor spirits in white and grey.
And give them "the same" code as X normal armor have with special weapons.

If the standart Buster H and P armor have to much colors to fit into that "color modulation" on the Buster-Weapon; so that they wont look as nice anymore with this setting; Then how about combining the two methds?

You could make another spirit set of X default armor in blue (to get lesser issues with bugs) and make the program load the default armors on the busters-weapons and the white/grey versions of the Armors plus the color modulation on special weapons.

Another methode would be to seperate the Armor spirits for H and P into two sets and make two color modulation on X with them (+ the underarmor) instend of the one your running atm.

Maybe i am talking [parasitic bomb] atm but i dont know any better then that  '>.>
Just want to get some ideas if you say thats not usefull at all i wont be suprissed



Offline Genstov

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Reply #1235 on: May 01, 2011, 03:11:43 PM
@ Objection Man:
The parameters for color options on the weapons aren't as bad as you might think. It runs off a basic hue/saturation/brightness/color balance so if anything it prevents you from having really awful rainbow colors, and for what JKB has for weapon colors I think it does its job well.

And as for the armor parts, getting them colored for weapons involves an extra layer going over each and every armor piece individually (because you can mix parts), increasing the number or objects onscreen at any given time by 4, and increasing X's total sprites eightfold. This has been discussed, and it will not be done. Unless some method of palette swapping surfaces in flash, armors being colored for weapons unfortunately is not going to happen.

2H > 5P > c.S > 2D(JI) > 2S > 5K > sjc.K > j.S > j.P > j.K > jc.K > j.S > j.H


Offline Weissritter

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Reply #1236 on: May 03, 2011, 09:54:09 PM
Still need to make Neurospike charged version;

If you're still working on that:

While it might be approaching too much trouble to be worth, perhaps you could assume direct control of the enemy in question, with X remaining immobile for the duration, sort of like a cross between Soul Body and the DNA copy mechanic. And while it may also interfere with whatever level design decisions you're in the process of completing or have completed, maybe it could even be used to allow X to access areas he couldn't on his own. Say, an enemy's unique firing pattern or splash damage allows it to shoot out a wall X's own weaponry can't reach.

Another potential application could be a boss that utilizes minions that can be commandeered to hit a weak point or some such, reducing the boss' overall effectiveness and making the battle easier than fighting it outright.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1237 on: May 03, 2011, 10:41:00 PM
Yknow, that actually sounds fun.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline JKB Games

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Reply #1238 on: May 03, 2011, 11:41:03 PM
Too slow, not fast paced enough for MMX. That kinda of stuff is more suitable for a puzzle like platformer game.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1239 on: May 04, 2011, 01:20:57 AM
Awww. X4 did it! (Although X4's charged soul body lasts very little... which wouldnt really work for this. oh well.)

How about temporarily hacking all enemies in the area for a short period of time? basically, when X passes them, they wouldn't attack him, and would not cause collision damage. They'd just sit there, or idle. (mets would walk around but wouldnt do anything, flying enemies would either fly right by or with batton bats, either fly away or stay in their perched form.

Think something akin to stuff like time stopper and those other "stopper" weapons which affect the whole area as long as there is weapon energy.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline KoiDrake

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Reply #1240 on: May 04, 2011, 02:15:07 AM
The charged Soul Body was lame


Offline Flame

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Reply #1241 on: May 04, 2011, 03:55:32 AM
I thought it was cool. fairly useless, but, still cool.

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline Weissritter

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Reply #1242 on: May 04, 2011, 01:24:45 PM
Too slow, not fast paced enough for MMX. That kinda of stuff is more suitable for a puzzle like platformer game.

The same can be said of an experience and leveling system, but the point of that was to add a wrinkle to the gameplay and appeal to a certain kind of player, no?

Besides that, an element of Mega Man X has always been going out of your way to find and do everything the game has to offer, often adding a light puzzle element, though still an action-based one. No one will ever achieve maximum health and full powerups each title has to offer without stopping to think or experiment, and it's not always a fast-paced endeavor (indeed, even some of the stages in the series have been slow paced). Those that don't care and just want to make their way through aren't forced to do it, though, and the above was proposed with this in mind, as an optional feature that can reward the player if they bother to use it, or hell, can offer them a means to goof around if they feel so inclined. Maybe stepping outside of the envisioned model is worth if it the player has fun with the end result.

I thought it was cool. fairly useless, but, still cool.

It was a neat concept. I suppose the idea behind my suggestion was also to give it some weight, to make it feel less like a novelty and more like a gameplay element.

Of course, it's your game, JKB, and it's certainly shaping up well without any of my input, but every fan has their own version of what the series means to them. Perhaps the same people who will appreciate the work that has gone into the weapons won't mind X putting on his thinking helmet when using them.

Regardless, I find the work that's been done so far to be very impressive. No matter what shape it takes, if the project finishes as strongly as it's progressed, you're on your way to offering the definitive... X-perience here. I can say with a relative surety that no one expects something like this when they see "flash fangame" attached to it, but this has thusfar been a professional effort by some talented people, moreso than the majority of the efforts put out by people who get paid to do this. And as a fan that feels the series didn't get its proper due, I feel there's no better credit that could be done to it.



Offline JKB Games

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Reply #1243 on: May 04, 2011, 07:27:05 PM
Calm down, don't need to get all defensive about it. lol
It was something i thought about a long time ago and you're not the first to suggest it either. I actually wanted to make it but inputs from testers and some others who watched the very first neurospike video changed my mind. That and coding it would be a pain and not useful for 99.99% of the game which would be "a waste of time".
As much as an idea can be cool and unique, if it's only going to be used by 1% of the players or just to get this 1 item on the whole game is not worth having.



Offline Weissritter

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Reply #1244 on: May 05, 2011, 05:20:27 AM
You know, not everyone who offers a differing opinion is looking for an argument, and I think I made that pretty clear by saying you've done a fine job without my input, and that it might be too much trouble to implement, among other things. I don't care one way or the other if you do it, but you said you were looking for ideas, so I gave one, followed by why I think it'd work, and that perhaps you're being a bit too particular about what works or doesn't. It didn't have to be more complicated than that, especially if you didn't agree. Ease off the trigger a little; egotism is a creator's worst foe.

With that said, I'll again commend you on how the game's progressing and hope the future's bright for the project no matter what shape you decide it takes.



Offline JKB Games

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Reply #1245 on: May 05, 2011, 10:46:56 AM
Already explained why it wouldn't work but thank you very much for your suggestion.
Please no more suggestions unless I ask for help on ideas but you're more than welcome to critique and comment on content I have shown.
The neurospike thing was so random I have no idea why you thought i wanted ideas for it.



Offline Weissritter

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Reply #1246 on: May 06, 2011, 04:14:26 AM
The neurospike thing was so random I have no idea why you thought i wanted ideas for it.

Seems I misinterpreted you based on the topic at the time; there was talk on suggestions for the wind weapon, and I supposed that anything else you mentioned as having not finished yet was also open for suggestion. Sorry about that; my intention wasn't to throw my weight around.



Offline Flame

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Reply #1247 on: May 06, 2011, 05:41:50 AM
Hey, that said JKB, DO you have anything in mind for Neuro Spike, or you will just get around to that at another time?

...When Larry the reploid accountant goes maverick of his own accord, he's certainly formidable during tax season, but he isn't going to provide X the challenge needed to make him grow as a warrior and reach his potential.


Offline JKB Games

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Reply #1248 on: May 06, 2011, 08:14:29 AM
Hey, that said JKB, DO you have anything in mind for Neuro Spike, or you will just get around to that at another time?

I do have a couple of ideas but I'm waiting on sprites.



Offline Meritur

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Reply #1249 on: May 08, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
And as for the armor parts, getting them colored for weapons involves an extra layer going over each and every armor piece individually (because you can mix parts), increasing the number or objects onscreen at any given time by 4, and increasing X's total sprites eightfold. This has been discussed, and it will not be done. Unless some method of palette swapping surfaces in flash, armors being colored for weapons unfortunately is not going to happen.

Fair enought;
as far i recall it X armors (expect the ultimate armor) never changed their colors. It would have been a nice gimmick but oh well. How would not choose smooth gameplay over an armor that change colors?

Neurospike is still under devolopment. New Levels are beeing made -actually the second most important part of that game.
And in near future we finally will get Bosses; well at least I hope in the near future...

If all goes well, we will be able to play the game in about one year  8)