Topic: Official Nintendo 3DS Discussion Thread - Specs, Tech, Price? It's all here!

[Sky]

i want to really like this, but the fact that 3D cinema gives me a massive headache makes me a skeptic.

however, my brother wants this really bad. i get to keep his old fatty classic DS. B)

[Bueno Excelente]

i want to really like this, but the fact that 3D cinema gives me a massive headache makes me a skeptic.

however, my brother wants this really bad. i get to keep his old fatty classic DS. B)

I hate 3D cinema as well, and can never watch it right without my eyes starting to hurt, but aparently, this uses a much simpler effect. And don't forget that the 3D can be turned off at anytime. So I guess pretty much every game can be played without 3D.

And for everyone thinking the 3DS will be a powerhouse, I got kinda worried when I read this: http://kotaku.com/5568573/nintendo-3ds-vs-psp-vs-iphone

The Nintendo 3DS is a big step up power-wise from the Nintendo DS. The stickler is that, as HCW points out, the Nintendo 3DS apparently has to work harder than the Nintendo Wii!

The reason that the Nintendo 3DS has to work so hard is that it has to do two times the effort to reproduce the 3D effect in the machine's top screen. According to HCW, that could mean there won't be super detailed 3D graphics. (Perhaps below PSP or iPhone 3GS level.) The draw for the Nintendo 3DS is ultimately the 3D and what kind of experiences Nintendo can offer. And for current Nintendo DS owners, the graphics will look eye popping. Literally.

I'm a bit dissapointed, specially because these graphics seemed really damn good in the presentation.

[xnamkcor]

The graphics looked good to you, but now you are disapointed because someone said(implied) they weren't good? If you like the graphics, that seems enough. How can the graphics be below the PSP? Are they not, at all, considering the 3D being part of the graphics?
Imagine the PSP doing this. It would probably halve or reduce by a quarter the polycount and the resolution would be about 240x272. Even more sacrifice to the polycount if it was 960x272.

I'd like to see a company make a game that is meant to be played at 800x240 with no 3D, or maybe a game that uses a form of interlacing that would result in 800 wide 3D image instead of redundant columns that result in 400 wide.

PS: If it is backwards compatible with NDS games, why is the bottom screen 320x240 wheb the NDS screens were 256x192?

[Bueno Excelente]

The graphics looked good to you, but now you are disapointed because someone said(implied) they weren't good? If you like the graphics, that seems enough. How can the graphics be below the PSP? Are they not, at all, considering the 3D being part of the graphics?
Imagine the PSP doing this. It would probably halve or reduce by a quarter the polycount and the resolution would be about 240x272. Even more sacrifice to the polycount if it was 960x272.

I'd like to see a company make a game that is meant to be played at 800x240 with no 3D, or maybe a game that uses a form of interlacing that would result in 800 wide 3D image instead of redundant columns that result in 400 wide.

PS: If it is backwards compatible with NDS games, why is the bottom screen 320x240 wheb the NDS screens were 256x192?

I love it when people read what I say. Unfortunately, this isn't one of those times. Although the graphics looked really good in the small demo presentation the 3DS girls were showing around, they didn't move alot, and we just saw some small scenes being shown and 3D models turned around. I expected the games to actually go that far. The stuff we saw of Kid Icarus, while impressive, didn't go to Gamecube levels. This article is a look at the actual hardware, and it says that as the console will make a bigger effort to display the 3D, the graphics won't be as good in ACTUAL games. Nothing's certain as of now, and I wanna keep believing that I'm gonna be able to play Mario Sunshine on my 3DS, but for now, it does look good. It looks really good. What I'm dissapointed about, is the graphics shown in those latest videos Vixy linked us to, which are probably unrealistic compared to the actual things the console can do. Still, we can wait for results instead of wondering about it.

[xnamkcor]

I'm sorry you thought the ingame graphics were going to match a single character model spinning?

"graphics seemed really damn good in the presentation."

Next time specify you are refering to a single character model spinning and comnparing it to ingame. I was not aware the "presentation" you saw was such.

[Bueno Excelente]

I'm sorry you thought the ingame graphics were going to match a single character model spinning?

"graphics seemed really damn good in the presentation."

Next time specify you are refering to a single character model spinning and comnparing it to ingame. I was not aware the "presentation" you saw was such.

And why the [tornado fang] would I want to do that? I said the graphics looked good in "the presentation", without specifying any demos or trailers. I was pointing out my concern because this recent article pointed out that the hardware won't push the graphics as hard as I originally thought. No, I didn't think the graphics would match a 3D model spinning, but Nintendo isn't one to "bullshot" people. They're not Square-Enix. Once they release screenshots, a game usually looks like that and the system runs it as such. So, yes, I expected the games to look good. And if stuff like Kid Icarus wowed me, it still wasn't the "Gamecube-level graphics" everyone is hyping.
I was voicing a concern I had for the hardware. If you didn't understand what I was talking about, I don't know how the [tornado fang] it is any of my problem.

[Turian]

And why the [tornado fang] would I want to do that? I said the graphics looked good in "the presentation", without specifying any demos or trailers. I was pointing out my concern because this recent article pointed out that the hardware won't push the graphics as hard as I originally thought. No, I didn't think the graphics would match a 3D model spinning, but Nintendo isn't one to "bullshot" people. They're not Square-Enix. Once they release screenshots, a game usually looks like that and the system runs it as such. So, yes, I expected the games to look good. And if stuff like Kid Icarus wowed me, it still wasn't the "Gamecube-level graphics" everyone is hyping.
I was voicing a concern I had for the hardware. If you didn't understand what I was talking about, I don't know how the [tornado fang] it is any of my problem.

Hey Flash... 1up disagrees. Also the comments on Kotaku disagree with the article that you linked, so there may be hope yet!

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180008

[Bueno Excelente]

Hey Flash... 1up disagrees. Also the comments on Kotaku disagree with the article that you linked, so there may be hope yet!

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3180008

YES. Thank you. Providing material and contributing in a civilized way.

[xnamkcor]

I agree with Past Flash and think the graphics are good.
Present Flash is synical, but that will pass. These aren't even finished and even then, they are the release titles. Compare Dawn of Sorrow to Order of the Ecclair.

With enough time, we might see a sequel to Spirit Tracks that rivals or exceeds WW.

I want to see them pull off a stereovisual 2D game where a whole sets of sprites are made for each eye's POV.

PS: Future Flash is(will be) enjoying his copy of MMZX3. In which, Model Z is playable and the levels have multiple layers of 2D along the Z-Axis. Or is it the X-Axis in 3D Geometry?

[Bueno Excelente]

I agree with Past Flash and think the graphics are good.
Present Flash is synical, but that will pass. These aren't even finished and even then, they are the release titles. Compare Dawn of Sorrow to Order of the Ecclair.

With enough time, we might see a sequel to Spirit Tracks that rivals or exceeds WW.

I want to see them pull off a stereovisual 2D game where a whole sets of sprites are made for each eye's POV.

PS: Future Flash is(will be) enjoying his copy of MMZX3. In which, Model Z is playable and the levels have multiple layers of 2D along the Z-Axis. Or is it the X-Axis in 3D Geometry?

I also think the graphics are good. I just want to know what kind of graphics we'll have in the first place.

...and I would be enjoying it if I liked the games.

[xnamkcor]

Polygons: PSX-PS2
Textures: N64-GCN
Stereovision
Controller: SNES w/ a stick
Sound: PSX
Fun = Yes

I'm still mystified by the inclusion of the placeholder screen 2 on 3DS screenshots. I hope developers use that second screen.

[Turian]

I also think the graphics are good. I just want to know what kind of graphics we'll have in the first place.

...and I would be enjoying it if I liked the games.

Real quick, why don't you like ZX? Don't wanna get into to it too much, i'm just curious.

[Bueno Excelente]

Real quick, why don't you like ZX? Don't wanna get into to it too much, i'm just curious.

...mostly the gameplay. I guess it's pretty standard fare in Megaman games, but while the simplistic "can't duck or shoot up" gameplay was fun back in the old 8-bit titles and heck, even excuseable in the X titles, it made me just quit the game and sell it right away on this one. The Zero series seemed a bit more manageable for some reason, but I just played the first game and didn't even like it that much.

(I'm more of a fan of the old original series games, Maverick Hunter X, Powered Up and the first BN game. Other than that, can't say I liked the other Megaman games.)

[Turian]

...mostly the gameplay. I guess it's pretty standard fare in Megaman games, but while the simplistic "can't duck or shoot up" gameplay was fun back in the old 8-bit titles and heck, even excuseable in the X titles, it made me just quit the game and sell it right away on this one. The Zero series seemed a bit more manageable for some reason, but I just played the first game and didn't even like it that much.

(I'm more of a fan of the old original series games, Maverick Hunter X, Powered Up and the first BN game. Other than that, can't say I liked the other Megaman games.)

That's too bad, I really enjoyed the games for the same reasons you dislike them. I DO agree that they could have done more to innovate. But then again, that could be said of the whole series.

[Bueno Excelente]

That's too bad, I really enjoyed the games for the same reasons you dislike them. I DO agree that they could have done more to innovate. But then again, that could be said of the whole series.

See, I NEVER understood the need for the "never shoot up or duck" mechanic. Then I played Megaman 2, and Megaman 9 (still the best, IMO). And I really understood that the gameplay mechanic was perfect for the games, perfect for the sprite size, and perfect for the level designs. It fit in really well.

...then it followed on into EVERYTHING and it got kinda tired. Dammit, I see Metal Slug-like graphics, I'm gonna need good, non-limiting gameplay to go with it.

[xnamkcor]

If you want to aim, Axl is your man(boy?).

If ZX3 has  Model A(xl) and ducking in an ability, would you get it?

[Hypershell]

This article is a look at the actual hardware, and it says that as the console will make a bigger effort to display the 3D, the graphics won't be as good in ACTUAL games.

I've seen plenty of PSP games that I consider a lot less eye-popping than the Kid Icarus reel, both MegaMan titles among them.  Then of course there is the Metal Gear Solid demo we saw; even if it wasn't gameplay, it was realtime.  And it looked freaking awesome.  I don't expect every dev will be encouraged to push the 3DS hardware to its fullest (just look at the Wii), but it seems capable enough to me.

I'd imagine the effort to display a 3D effect in a polygon game is probably comparable to doing 2-player split screen:  Programming-wise, if you're already working on a 3D plane, then it's just a matter of showing two different camera angles. 

"can't duck or shoot up" gameplay

Get equipped with: Model FX.

Yeah, ducking hasn't gotten much fanfare beyond X5/X6, but lots of MegaMan games including nearly all of Inticreates' have some means of multi-directional attack (all Rod weapons in the Zero-series, Model F/FX in ZX series, Bass in MM&B/MM10, and Axl in X8).

Megaman 9 (still the best, IMO)

The power of an 8-bit can of paint is truly amazing.  I for one do not believe 9 comes close to equaling the quality of actual NES games.  10 did better, though, if only there was some way to turn off that damn B trigger weapon switch.  You might want to consider a Classic controller for that.

[Bueno Excelente]

If you want to aim, Axl is your man(boy?).

If ZX3 has  Model A(xl) and ducking in an ability, would you get it?

If ZX3 has the gameplay of Metal Slug, Gunstar Heroes or Contra, I'll get it.

Litmus test: What kind of performance drop do you see when a GCN game is running in split-screen?  3D in a polygon game is a simple matter of displaying two different camera angles.

That said, I've seen plenty of PSP games that I consider a lot less eye-popping than the Kid Icarus reel, both MegaMan titles among them.  Then of course there is the Metal Gear Solid demo we saw; even if it wasn't gameplay, it was realtime.  And it looked freaking awesome.  I don't expect every dev will be encouraged to push the 3DS hardware to its fullest (just look at the Wii), but it seems capable enough to me. 
Get equipped with: Model FX.

As I've said, seeing as there are tons of different opinions and analyses, we'll just have to wait and see.

Yeah, ducking hasn't gotten much fanfare beyond X5/X6, but lots of MegaMan games including nearly all of Inticreates' have some means of multi-directional attack (all Rod weapons in the Zero-series, Model F/FX in ZX series, Bass in MM&B/MM10, and Axl in X8).

I don't want models or powerups that give me basic things. I want a game with an actual GAMEPLAY that lets me do crazy [parasitic bomb] and gives me more freedom. Megaman's a dude with a gun in his hand. He should be able to move better.

The power of an 8-bit can of paint is truly amazing.  I for one do not believe 9 comes close to equaling the quality of actual NES games.  10 did better, though, if only there was some way to turn off that damn B trigger weapon switch.  You might want to consider a Classic controller for that.

I actually liked 9 ALOT, more than any of the NES titles, while 10 just seemed like it had much worse level design. 9 seemed... intuitive. Easier. Not frustrating. Things 8-bit Megaman games usually aren't.

[Mirby]

I think your quote tags are having an orgy, Flash.

[Bueno Excelente]

I think your quote tags are having an orgy, Flash.

Fixed.

[Hypershell]

"Intuitive" is the last word I would ever use to describe that helicopter claw bastard.  Same goes for the occasional blind spike, jump-snaking, and enemies who very nearly match your running speed.  MegaMan may not be very free with aiming but he's gone to immense lengths when it comes to maneuverability; and 9 felt very frequently to me like the level design was throwing the basic run-and-jump limitations in your face.  10, I felt, was better built for the type of basic movement that they were trying to return to.

[Bueno Excelente]

"Intuitive" is the last word I would ever use to describe that helicopter claw bastard.  Same goes for the occasional blind spike, jump-snaking, and enemies who very nearly match your running speed.  MegaMan may not be very free with aiming but he's gone to immense lengths when it comes to maneuverability; and 9 felt very frequently to me like the level design was throwing the basic run-and-jump limitations in your face.  10, I felt, was better built for the type of basic movement that they were trying to return to.

Awwww, I loved that helicopter claw dude! He actually never killed me once. But I think it was because of sheer dumb luck. The first one got me, and the second one missed me by an inch. I ended up being more careful through the whole stage. And I dunno, enemy positioning and platforming just seemed better in 9.

[Hypershell]

I ended up being more careful through the whole stage.

You like to aim, I like to not pussyfoot.  Different strokes.  If they didn't come from completely off-screen with no warning, maybe it'd be different.

I don't want models or powerups that give me basic things. I want a game with an actual GAMEPLAY that lets me do crazy [parasitic bomb] and gives me more freedom. Megaman's a dude with a gun in his hand. He should be able to move better.

Well, then the ZX formula is as likely to please you as Goldmember with a schmoke and a pancake.  The whole schtick of that game is that the different Models each provide their own unique spin on combat.

That still leaves Bass and Axl as probably being worth your time, though, since they're a matter of player choice and not of game progress.  In particular, in X8, all of Axl's weapons (default and special) are aim-able.

[Bueno Excelente]

You like to aim, I like to not pussyfoot.  Different strokes.  If they didn't come from completely off-screen with no warning, maybe it'd be different.
Well, then the ZX formula is as likely to please you as Goldmember with a schmoke and a pancake.  The whole schtick of that game is that the different Models each provide their own unique spin on combat.

That still leaves Bass and Axl as probably being worth your time, though, since they're a matter of player choice and not of game progress.  In particular, in X8, all of Axl's weapons (default and special) are aim-able.

You don't have to pussyfoot. You just have to stop once the helicopter thing comes through the top of the screen. Simple short reaction time is needed. As long as you know the general areas where it happens, there's no problem. And I'm not one for very careful aiming. I just like being able to hit enemies that logically I should be able to hit, having a damn cannon in my arm.

And last time I played any of the later X games, I wasn't impressed. =P Seriously, it's great to try to interest me in Megaman games, but I'm absolutely gonna stay away from them except for the very best titles that come out of the franchise. Worked out for me so far, and I loved it.

[Hypershell]

Simple short reaction time is needed. As long as you know the general areas where it happens...

That's my problem.  The obstacle is in no way difficult, but it absolutely requires prior knowledge, and is not the only obstacle in MM9 to do so.  To me that's bad level design.  The whole stunt comes off as blind-siding.  You'll never react in time if you don't already know to look for it.

Classic is known for throwing a few "stay sharp" scenarios at you but generally leaves you with far more realistic odds for reaction time than 9 did; ie: the first spike-drop you have to avoid in Splash Woman's stage is twice as wide as comparable traps in 2 and 3, which does not leave you enough time to evade it unless you already know it's there.  Further, they are the first spikes you see in the stage, appearing utterly without warning.  Such cheap tricks make the game feel less like MegaMan and more like I Wanna Be The Guy.