GENERAL COMIC BOOK THREAD (MANGA NOT ALLOWED)

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Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #550 on: September 10, 2010, 11:16:08 PM
..What does Quesada have against MJ?...I donĀ“t get it? Peter and MJ belong to eachother similiar to Lois and Clark...
Setting up all this to make them break up seems tad extreme...
He grew up reading comics where Peter was a bachelor. Now he's head of Marvel. Basically, he's butthurt because of nostalgia, hates MJ because he believes Peter should forever be a mindless irresponsible teenager, and wants to make everything the way he was when he was a kid. It's like going to Deviantart or Fanfiction.net and giving some kid the keys to his own favorite franchise. He's making the story he's always wanted to make, while the original creators and best authors of the franchise sigh and watch their creation be ripped to pieces because some douchey kid who believes more in his own happiness than on others' got ahold of it.


I will say one thing. Quesada took Marvel out of a financial crisis a few years back, and his economical decisions have been good, as well as alot of other stuff he's done. But he is a horrible, horrible man due to what he's done to this story.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #551 on: September 10, 2010, 11:57:36 PM
Looks like Civil War might be the cause of Peter making the deal with the devil. It's my assumption, since I noticed a trend how bad comic book plots have been getting these days (lolgrimdark).

Yes and no. Again, Spidey has been written like [parasitic bomb] for a good 5-6 years now or longer. Civil War was one of the main reasons, because he publicly unmasked himself, which is easily the stupidest decision in comic book history. But in the end it all boils down to [parasitic bomb] writing by Quesada. If he wanted to end their marriage, there were just so many many many other ways to do it.



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Reply #552 on: September 11, 2010, 12:01:47 AM
Yes and no. Again, Spidey has been written like [parasitic bomb] for a good 5-6 years now or longer. Civil War was one of the main reasons, because he publicly unmasked himself, which is easily the stupidest decision in comic book history. But in the end it all boils down to [parasitic bomb] writing by Quesada. If he wanted to end their marriage, there were just so many many many other ways to do it.

Like divorce, basically MJ being fed up with Parker's second life, instead of making a goddamn deal to the freaking devil. At least it would've made more sense, logical, and push foward Peter's character than taking five steps foward, and few steps back.

Workshop/DA/YT/Photobucket なにかんがえてるの!?
So its about ass now huh? EVEN THE ASS HAS 'EXCEEDED'!

One mention of LEGENDS and everyone goes batshit.  :\

Yep, every time when someone mentions that game people get energized for an apparent reason whatsoever. It's like this everywhere else, trust me.

It got really messy to find my sprite and comic topic, so it's in my sig.


Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #553 on: September 11, 2010, 12:23:38 AM
Unmasking COULD have been a good decision, if the Civil War status quo of perfect utopian Tony Stark world of every single hero in the US working for SHIELD remained for good. With a whole new status quo, we would have been able to have new and interesting stories. But we all knew it didn't. It was amazingly stupid.

Like divorce, basically MJ being fed up with Parker's second life, instead of making a goddamn deal to the freaking devil. At least it would've made more sense, logical, and push foward Peter's character than taking five steps foward, and few steps back.
That would AGE him. Quesada wants to make him into the forever teen.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #554 on: September 11, 2010, 12:32:16 AM
Unmasking COULD have been a good decision, if the Civil War status quo of perfect utopian Tony Stark world of every single hero in the US working for SHIELD remained for good. With a whole new status quo, we would have been able to have new and interesting stories. But we all knew it didn't. It was amazingly stupid.

The problem is that he didn't have to publicly unmask. You're right, if he had just unmasked for the govt. & SHIELD (still stupid but like you said could've produced some good stories) it could have worked. In fact, it was one of the main problems I had with Civil War in the first place. It was never going to work.

That would AGE him. Quesada wants to make him into the forever teen.

Yep. That's one of the things I meant when I say that Spider-Man himself is more important than the character Peter Parker.



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #555 on: September 11, 2010, 01:04:36 AM
Honestly? In my opinion, Peter Parker SUCKS. He is one of the most whiny, obnoxious and stupid self-dramatizing BRATS I have ever seen in any kind of storylines. While Spider-Man rules. Dude's always on the move, always with good humor... Heck, it's the reason I'm loving how Shattered Dimensions plays. No Peter Parker, only Spidey.

Wally West's Flash run is pretty much the very idea of Spider-Man done well. Alot of crap happens to his family, loved ones and pretty much everyone he takes care of, due to his public identity. But the whole tale is done in a very good way, even when the Spectre erases public knowledge of his identity (even to himself). He always saves the day, he always makes it right in the end, and he's brought both his wife and children back from the dead. Now that's hardcore.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #556 on: September 11, 2010, 01:50:33 AM
Honestly? In my opinion, Peter Parker SUCKS. He is one of the most whiny, obnoxious and stupid self-dramatizing BRATS I have ever seen in any kind of storylines. While Spider-Man rules. Dude's always on the move, always with good humor... Heck, it's the reason I'm loving how Shattered Dimensions plays. No Peter Parker, only Spidey.

Wally West's Flash run is pretty much the very idea of Spider-Man done well. Alot of crap happens to his family, loved ones and pretty much everyone he takes care of, due to his public identity. But the whole tale is done in a very good way, even when the Spectre erases public knowledge of his identity (even to himself). He always saves the day, he always makes it right in the end, and he's brought both his wife and children back from the dead. Now that's hardcore.

But Parker pushed through all the whining, the misery of the reality of his life, and kept going with being Spider-Man because he knew he had a responsibility. That's the beauty of the character. Life shat on him, both as Parker & Spider-Man, and he kept pushing through, as both Parker & Spider-Man because of the lessons he learned, and in the end he got the girl. He was rewarded with something good. Sure, his life was still all not that great, but he still had someone that loved him & visa versa. This destroyed all of that and brought him even further back to the whinyness than even the last 5-6 years of awful Spidey writing did.

Also, Wally West can really not be compared to Peter Parker. They are two completely different characters. Wally West started off as a hero at a young age, even younger that Parker. He had a mentor to fully teach him how to use his powers and to set an example. He had other teenage costumed heroes he hung out with and they grew into their own family. And after Barry's death, Wally properly assumed the mantle of the Flash and builds a life for himself. Yes, there are some story comparisons. Like Linkara pointed out, there was an event with Wally in which Neron does indeed steal Wally's love & marriage, and it's done so much better than OMD. Of course, as brilliantly written and reinforced by Geoff Johns, a writer who uses the past to reinforce his version, Wally's love for Linda is his lightning rod, his way home, so that whole thing has more importance than OMD. But Wally never suffered as much as Peter did. Ever. Especially early on in his crime-fighting career.

Now, do I think Wally West is a better character than Peter Parker? Yes, I do. But I think it stems more from the fact that he's been handled sooooooooooooooooo much better as a character than Peter Parker by the writers.  If anything, it's why The Spectacular Spider-Man is, IMO, the best version of Spider-Man I've ever seen, if you want to compare Peter Parker characters.



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #557 on: September 11, 2010, 01:56:57 AM
But Parker pushed through all the whining, the misery of the reality of his life, and kept going with being Spider-Man because he knew he had a responsibility. That's the beauty of the character. Life shat on him, both as Parker & Spider-Man, and he kept pushing through, as both Parker & Spider-Man because of the lessons he learned, and in the end he got the girl. He was rewarded with something good. Sure, his life was still all not that great, but he still had someone that loved him & visa versa. This destroyed all of that and brought him even further back to the whinyness than even the last 5-6 years of awful Spidey writing did.

Also, Wally West can really not be compared to Peter Parker. They are two completely different characters. Wally West started off as a hero at a young age, even younger that Parker. He had a mentor to fully teach him how to use his powers and to set an example. He had other teenage costumed heroes he hung out with and they grew into their own family. And after Barry's death, Wally properly assumed the mantle of the Flash and builds a life for himself. Yes, there are some story comparisons. Like Linkara pointed out, there was an event with Wally in which Neron does indeed steal Wally's love & marriage, and it's done so much better than OMD. Of course, as brilliantly written and reinforced by Geoff Johns, a writer who uses the past to reinforce his version, Wally's love for Linda is his lightning rod, his way home, so that whole thing has more importance than OMD. But Wally never suffered as much as Peter did. Ever. Especially early on in his crime-fighting career.

Now, do I think Wally West is a better character than Peter Parker? Yes, I do. But I think it stems more from the fact that he's been handled sooooooooooooooooo much better as a character than Peter Parker by the writers.  If anything, it's why The Spectacular Spider-Man is, IMO, the best version of Spider-Man I've ever seen, if you want to compare Peter Parker characters.
I was pretty much just comparing for the sake of similar situations. Wally had a dead mentor, had to control absolute CHAOS in his city, constant tragedy happened to him, and he handled alot of stuff by himself. Both his wife and children were taken from him multiple times, and they even made him forget about her in the middle of their own wedding! But he always went through in his own way, and always succeeded, never giving up, never going down even a little bit. That's what I like about him. Wally did what Peter could not. Because of the way he was written and the way he became. He gained maturity. A wife. Children. Respect by the people of the city and of the world. While Peter has a life of endless [parasitic bomb] to look forward to.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #558 on: September 11, 2010, 02:29:17 AM
I was pretty much just comparing for the sake of similar situations. Wally had a dead mentor, had to control absolute CHAOS in his city, constant tragedy happened to him, and he handled alot of stuff by himself. Both his wife and children were taken from him multiple times, and they even made him forget about her in the middle of their own wedding! But he always went through in his own way, and always succeeded, never giving up, never going down even a little bit. That's what I like about him. Wally did what Peter could not. Because of the way he was written and the way he became. He gained maturity. A wife. Children. Respect by the people of the city and of the world. While Peter has a life of endless [parasitic bomb] to look forward to.

But like you said, that has everything to do with the writing and handling of the character. Wally is allowed to gain maturity. Wally is allowed to have a wife. Wally is allowed to have children. And before Flash: Rebirth, Wally's kids were handled pretty terrible, and thanks to the Geoffenious, they were improved upon! What's truly sad is that Peter is NOT allowed to have these things anymore. I think him having a kid with MJ would be the best thing that could happen to the character of Peter Parker, as it would once again bring home the idea of Peter Parker's responsibility. I never read much of it, but from my understanding, everyone LOVED the character of May-Day Parker in the Spider-Girl comic series. Quesada goes out of his way to show that she'll never exist. Ever. Not as long as he's in charge.

Hell, all you're really stating is that the writers of The Flash are much better than the writers of Spider-Man, and I couldn't agree with you more.



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #559 on: September 11, 2010, 03:05:46 AM
But like you said, that has everything to do with the writing and handling of the character. Wally is allowed to gain maturity. Wally is allowed to have a wife. Wally is allowed to have children. And before Flash: Rebirth, Wally's kids were handled pretty terrible, and thanks to the Geoffenious, they were improved upon! What's truly sad is that Peter is NOT allowed to have these things anymore. I think him having a kid with MJ would be the best thing that could happen to the character of Peter Parker, as it would once again bring home the idea of Peter Parker's responsibility. I never read much of it, but from my understanding, everyone LOVED the character of May-Day Parker in the Spider-Girl comic series. Quesada goes out of his way to show that she'll never exist. Ever. Not as long as he's in charge.

Hell, all you're really stating is that the writers of The Flash are much better than the writers of Spider-Man, and I couldn't agree with you more.
Exactly. Talking about the natural evolution of a character, and how it's handled. In Marvel, few characters are being allowed an actual evolution (Steve Rogers looks like a 20-year old in his recent comics). In DC, pretty much everyone is maturing lately, and their personalities are changing. Batman's being given a whole new perspective in life, Superman's gained and lost his culture all over again, and he's reconnecting with the world, Hal Jordan's trying to find out what love means, Guy Gardner's no longer just an [dark hold], but he's a respectable commander of amazing forces, along with Kyle who finally lost all of his insecurities and is a veteran with a stable romance, Ollie is trying to find himself again, in his origins, Barry's back and trying to keep up with the world as best as he can, Diana's trying to undo stuff in her own origin, and taking on a new street-level style to do it... heck, even villains like Sinestro are evolving and redeeming themselves!

Meanwhile, it's back to Deadpool being violently funny in his hundreds of weekly titles, and Wolverine bubbing snikts and snikting bubs.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #560 on: September 11, 2010, 03:28:33 AM
Exactly. Talking about the natural evolution of a character, and how it's handled. In Marvel, few characters are being allowed an actual evolution (Steve Rogers looks like a 20-year old in his recent comics). In DC, pretty much everyone is maturing lately, and their personalities are changing. Batman's being given a whole new perspective in life, Superman's gained and lost his culture all over again, and he's reconnecting with the world, Hal Jordan's trying to find out what love means, Guy Gardner's no longer just an [dark hold], but he's a respectable commander of amazing forces, along with Kyle who finally lost all of his insecurities and is a veteran with a stable romance, Ollie is trying to find himself again, in his origins, Barry's back and trying to keep up with the world as best as he can, Diana's trying to undo stuff in her own origin, and taking on a new street-level style to do it... heck, even villains like Sinestro are evolving and redeeming themselves!

Meanwhile, it's back to Deadpool being violently funny in his hundreds of weekly titles, and Wolverine bubbing snikts and snikting bubs.

This is why I was such a huge fan of the Ultimate universe, because at least if they were gonna go back to basics, they made a different universe for it. All three original Ultimate titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, and The Ultimates, were excellent series, in my opinion. Granted, Marvel eventually ruined a couple of them (despite my issues with Ultimate Spidey, I still thought it was good).

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said about DC and the characters. Hell you could've gone further. Luthor's evolving, secondary characters like Ganthet & Mera are even gaining new life, purpose, and character, and the new characters they've created like Larfleeze & Atrocitus all have their own unique character (Quickie told me that Larfleeze is getting his own X-mas special).

It's why I easily think that DC is better than Marvel at this point, and I'm not saying Marvel is all you. You and others have told me that Cosmic Marvel is [tornado fang]ing genius, and I personally think Ed Brubaker is a fantastic writer.



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #561 on: September 11, 2010, 03:48:40 AM
This is why I was such a huge fan of the Ultimate universe, because at least if they were gonna go back to basics, they made a different universe for it. All three original Ultimate titles, Ultimate Spider-Man, Ultimate X-Men, and The Ultimates, were excellent series, in my opinion. Granted, Marvel eventually ruined a couple of them (despite my issues with Ultimate Spidey, I still thought it was good).

Otherwise, I agree with everything you said about DC and the characters. Hell you could've gone further. Luthor's evolving, secondary characters like Ganthet & Mera are even gaining new life, purpose, and character, and the new characters they've created like Larfleeze & Atrocitus all have their own unique character (Quickie told me that Larfleeze is getting his own X-mas special).

It's why I easily think that DC is better than Marvel at this point, and I'm not saying Marvel is all you. You and others have told me that Cosmic Marvel is [tornado fang]ing genius, and I personally think Ed Brubaker is a fantastic writer.

DC IS better than Marvel. Leagues better.

But honestly? And this is HURTING ME LIKE ALL HELL to say. Seriously, it's causing me gigantic pain.

Cosmic Marvel, at least Annihilation, that one single event... is better than the usual, run-of-the-mill DC stuff. It's basically one of the best events I've ever seen, if not the best (along with stuff like Final Crisis and Sinestro Corps War) and it's absolutely AMAZING. Every single comic of the main event is a pure delight, and Nova is SUCH AN AWESOME CHARACTER when he goes solo with the Nova Force. From there, the characters evolve, and it pretty much is at DC standards, all of the events that go from there. But Annihilation is just... monstrous. Amazing. Incredible. Fantastic. It is epic in standards of epic which you have never, ever seen before.



Oh, and this is pretty excellent too. =P



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #562 on: September 11, 2010, 03:55:06 AM
DC IS better than Marvel. Leagues better.

But honestly? And this is HURTING ME LIKE ALL HELL to say. Seriously, it's causing me gigantic pain.

Cosmic Marvel, at least Annihilation, that one single event... is better than the usual, run-of-the-mill DC stuff. It's basically one of the best events I've ever seen, if not the best (along with stuff like Final Crisis and Sinestro Corps War) and it's absolutely AMAZING. Every single comic of the main event is a pure delight, and Nova is SUCH AN AWESOME CHARACTER when he goes solo with the Nova Force. From there, the characters evolve, and it pretty much is at DC standards, all of the events that go from there. But Annihilation is just... monstrous. Amazing. Incredible. Fantastic. It is epic in standards of epic which you have never, ever seen before.



Oh, and this is pretty excellent too. =P

Hey, it wouldn't hurt me to say that. A good comic is a good comic, no matter the company. Again, I consider The Ultimates 1 & 2 among the best comics I've ever read. Ever.

And yeah, that scene was priceless. Hell, even Carol's character is developing. XD



Offline Bueno Excelente

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Reply #563 on: September 11, 2010, 10:46:19 PM
Getting away from the Quesada crap, who here has any theories on how the next Batman & Robin will envelop? Seeing as there will be more Batman issues in October than there are weeks in the month, I'm really excited about it. The final conclusion to the amazing and awesome Morrison story that we have been reading since Batman & Son is almost here, and a whole new status quo will be born for the Bat. I really can't wait.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #564 on: September 11, 2010, 10:52:56 PM
It's going to be very interesting. I'm really curious what becomes of Tim & Damian and how they play out!



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Reply #565 on: September 11, 2010, 10:57:54 PM
Funnily enough, Tim and Damian seem to be turning into the main Batman and Robin of the DCU, getting roles in Detective Comics, Batman, Batman & Robin, Streets of Gotham and JLA. Bruce seems to be confined to Batman Inc and Batman: The Dark Knight for now. I guess he's truly going international. I wonder how long will the Batcave remain closed now...

One thing I AM looking forward to, is the Selina issue of The Return. Since it's about important characters coming to terms with Bruce coming back, I find it important that her and Bruce measure their relationship, and find out where it's going. I know it's extremely unlikely, but I'd really like Bruce to settle down and be happy sometime. He could continue doing his Batman schtick, but having an actual family to take care of would be important for him.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #566 on: September 11, 2010, 11:00:52 PM
But if they've made the Batman Beyond future canon, then it's definitely unlikely that Bruce will ever settle down.



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Reply #567 on: September 11, 2010, 11:03:12 PM
But if they've made the Batman Beyond future canon, then it's definitely unlikely that Bruce will ever settle down.
Not exactly. Three things:

- The current "canon" Batman Beyond future has Damian training Terry, and not Bruce. (confirmed in the latest Superman/Batman Annual)
- The "canonization" of Beyond was made in the #700 issue, which had a completely unconnected story which was more of a tribute to Batman's entire story than exactly something CANON to begin with.
- The old Beyond DCAU universe is currently taking shape in a comic that is canon in its own universe rather than on DC's main Earth.



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #568 on: September 11, 2010, 11:12:24 PM
They sure make him look like Bruce! XD

Posted on: September 11, 2010, 04:09:27 PM
- The current "canon" Batman Beyond future has Damian training Terry, and not Bruce. (confirmed in the latest Superman/Batman Annual)

Ummm...

DC says different.



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Reply #569 on: September 11, 2010, 11:16:03 PM
I liked Batman Beyond. Coming from the fact that I REALLY like Bruce Timm's style.



Offline Blackhook

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Reply #570 on: September 11, 2010, 11:17:38 PM
Yeah it was good.


Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #571 on: September 11, 2010, 11:18:02 PM
I liked Batman Beyond. Coming from the fact that I REALLY like Bruce Timm's style.

I'm such a huge fan of all the DCAU shows. Especially Batman Beyond. I agree though with the liking of Bruce Timm's style.



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Reply #572 on: September 11, 2010, 11:23:04 PM
They sure make him look like Bruce! XD

Posted on: September 11, 2010, 04:09:27 PM
Ummm...

DC says different.
...not the annual, man! That's DCAU canon, and continues from the DCAU episodes!

The RECENT title. Superman/Batman #75.

http://dccomics.com/dcu/comics/?cm=15358

Here, I'll scan both pages of the short story for you.




Bruce and Supes are dead, and Terry's trained by Damian. Follows with the #700 canon, which honestly hasn't yet been proven FULLY canon by any of the comics. It is Morrison-canon, so...



Offline Protoman Blues

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Reply #573 on: September 11, 2010, 11:32:13 PM
...not the annual, man! That's DCAU canon, and continues from the DCAU episodes!

The RECENT title. Superman/Batman #75.

Hey don't blame me. You said "confirmed in the latest Superman/Batman Annual" not I! XD

Quote
Here, I'll scan both pages of the short story for you.




Bruce and Supes are dead, and Terry's trained by Damian. Follows with the #700 canon, which honestly hasn't yet been proven FULLY canon by any of the comics. It is Morrison-canon, so...

LoL, Morrison-canon is always a mystery! 

I will say though that ever since that Batman issue, I've always liked Damian's outfit.



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Reply #574 on: September 11, 2010, 11:43:37 PM
Hey don't blame me. You said "confirmed in the latest Superman/Batman Annual" not I! XD

LoL, Morrison-canon is always a mystery! 

I will say though that ever since that Batman issue, I've always liked Damian's outfit.
FFFFFFF MY DAMN MIND

I remember I was mentally going "MENTION THE SUPERMAN/BATMAN, NOT THE SUPERMAN/BATMAN ANNUAL, THAT WILL BE THE OPPOSITE"

My bad, dawg. And yeah, Batman #666 was pretty cool. But see, I'm not very fond of people showing us the future of the characters we're following. It's like automatically reading the ending to a story. And we know it's gonna be retconned soon. Heck, the Legion keeps being retconned, Beyond can't happen as intended because of MOAR ROBINS, and we know that this "close future Batman" with Damian will eventually be retconned as well. Heck, in a future where Bruce and pretty much all other inheritors of the Batman legacy seem to be dead except Damian, there's really not alot of chances for a happy ending for any of our favorite characters. I just hope that this goes to an alternate universe instead of limbo. Morrison already ties pretty much all of his works, like JLA One Million having All-Star Superman as a sort of prequel. So his canon is already pretty damn screwed in the first place.