Topic: The Kingdom Hearts Thread

[Blackhook]

...and everything that came after. Seriously Marluxia seemed more straight than him

[Bueno Excelente]

Okay, just asking. They did kinda gay him up in 2.

Not just him. Everything.

I mean, what did the organization did that was so evil? Ooooh, they want hearts of their own because they can't feel. SO EVIL. Ooooh, they're manipulating Sora into saving the worlds from heartless, something he'd most probably do anyway. SOOOO EVIL AND DIABOLICAL. Individual members were doing evil manipulative stuff, but it didn't make any sense why they did that.

The whole plot makes no sense. And people just come up to Sora and go "MEN IN BLACK COATS. EVIL. MUST DESTROY." Even Haloween Town's whole quest is simply based on Maleficent "trying to cause mischief once more". At least KH1 had a straight plan, an organization at the core that made sense, was Disney-based, and had actual perceptive goals. And it was a fun game that although a bit dark, it never stopped being an adventure with children going around and having fun through Disney worlds. Then in comes KH2 and starts being grimdark and retconning EVERYTHING.

[Mirby]

I think Square got the deal with Disney and made a Disney-like storyline. After that, they could keep the characters and go their own way. So they went the way they did; I don't like the story at all. In fact, I'll watch the story so I know what's going on, but generally I'll skip it if I can read what happened in the Journal or something. Part of my knowledge-seeking, I guess.

I mainly play it for the gameplay; it's pretty fun.

[Bueno Excelente]

I think Square got the deal with Disney and made a Disney-like storyline. After that, they could keep the characters and go their own way. So they went the way they did; I don't like the story at all. In fact, I'll watch the story so I know what's going on, but generally I'll skip it if I can read what happened in the Journal or something. Part of my knowledge-seeking, I guess.

I mainly play it for the gameplay; it's pretty fun.

The gameplay in the main titles and Birth By Sleep has always been fun. But I'm tired of the bullshit they're pulling with the story, which has it becoming Nomura's own personal fapfest. He's [speed burner]ing all over the characters, making them become more of his own personal stereotypes, and getting everything to be some kind of DBZ-hybrid where nobody dies, souls have like... 4 or 5 different ways to go, and it obeys every single anime cliché.

[Mirby]

Which is why more and more I'm ignoring the story.

Although Christopher Lee does do the voice of DiZ which is cool.

[Bueno Excelente]

Which is why more and more I'm ignoring the story.

Although Christopher Lee does do the voice of DiZ which is cool.

...and Leonard Nimoy does Master Xehanort's voice. Which is awesome.

[Mirby]

It is. Quite awesome, actually.

[Blackhook]

Oh yeah, Xehanort..apparently he´s the Villain in all games..altough he´s not

[Bueno Excelente]

Oh yeah, Xehanort..apparently he´s the Villain in all games..altough he´s not

I'm betting that in the end, he turns out to be good or some inunderstandable crap.

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

Retconning is good? Taking facts you put in your first games and making them completely different in the current ones is good?

And frankly, first game was about something COMPLETELY different from the second one... it's like they took a whole different story and just crammed it in there.

that's the thing.  i'm one of those fools that didn't find anything all too off in KH2 and I frankly enjoy the storyline and I don't see all that much 'complexity' to it, it's rather simple to follow and amusingly has some bit of depth, depending on the perspective of the audience.  That and I think rather differently from most people.  That's all i'm just saying.

[Bueno Excelente]

that's the thing.  i'm one of those fools that didn't find anything all too off in KH2 and I frankly enjoy the storyline and I don't see all that much 'complexity' to it, it's rather simple to follow and amusingly has some bit of depth, depending on the perspective of the audience.  That and I think rather differently from most people.  That's all i'm just saying.

I enjoyed the game too. I just don't realise WHY they changed the tone so much.

[Solar]

Not just him. Everything.

I mean, what did the organization did that was so evil? Ooooh, they want hearts of their own because they can't feel. SO EVIL. Ooooh, they're manipulating Sora into saving the worlds from heartless, something he'd most probably do anyway. SOOOO EVIL AND DIABOLICAL. Individual members were doing evil manipulative stuff, but it didn't make any sense why they did that.

The whole plot makes no sense. And people just come up to Sora and go "MEN IN BLACK COATS. EVIL. MUST DESTROY." Even Haloween Town's whole quest is simply based on Maleficent "trying to cause mischief once more". At least KH1 had a straight plan, an organization at the core that made sense, was Disney-based, and had actual perceptive goals. And it was a fun game that although a bit dark, it never stopped being an adventure with children going around and having fun through Disney worlds. Then in comes KH2 and starts being grimdark and retconning EVERYTHING.

Eh, the Org. XIII does have a goal, or at least Xemnas does, world domination and that stuff. That part is not that complicated.


Also, Re:Coded seems to have a different battle system than Coded, it's supposed to be using something similar to BbS.

[Bueno Excelente]

Eh, the Org. XIII does have a goal, or at least Xemnas does, world domination and that stuff. That part is not that complicated.


Also, Re:Coded seems to have a different battle system than Coded, it's supposed to be using something similar to BbS.

I don't even remember him stating that. World domination? There are so many damn worlds. What's he gonna do? Turn everyone into heartless? No, he loathes Heartless. Turn everyone into Nobodies? No, he doesn't like being a Nobody. Then WHAT. Is there a point to world domination, anything except "pure villanic requirement because nobody else gives a damn about motivation"?

[Mirby]

I think he's Chaotic Stupid.

[Bueno Excelente]

I think he's Chaotic Stupid.

Chaotic Animu Clichéd, more like it. Like Sephiroth before him. Stupid motivation that appeared thanks to stupid logic. Nomura likes to pull off evil emo bishonen who are bimbos, it seems.

[The Drunken Dishwasher]

IF it only was a cliche only in Anime.

But whatever,to each their own.

[Bueno Excelente]

IF it only was a cliche only in Anime.

But whatever,to each their own.

Where else is it a cliché? I mean, here you got a simplistic story that doesn't make you think in the least, and instead spoon-feeds you every single twist while pulling more and more supernatural [parasitic bomb] off its own ass about the heart and soul and fighting. And a villain who's a bishonen with white long hair says cryptic things that aren't supposed to mean anything, just make him look cool.

...sounds like anime there, bro.

[VixyNyan]

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

[Bueno Excelente]

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

Exactly! Look at how EEEEEVIL that sounds! That's totally the rant of a world-destroying maniac. =P

[Dantonumanoa Ongdolota Amycronicon]

Xemnas: "We nobodies want to feel... the same emotions and feelings as you humans do. We need hearts to complete us. We want to feel... whatever it is that you humans are able to express with your emotions and feelings, and without hearts, we feel empty and clueless."

Apparently this has already been stated by Flash numerous times, but this doesn't sound unreasonable in the least, and I always wondered why it was that Sora had to stop him.

[Rin]

Chain of Memories was good. It made it so Axel was a sneaky dude, adhering to his plan every single step of the way so he'd win, no matter what.

...then KH2 turned him into a pansy looking for his love.

Oh God, did I rage at that.
I loved him in CoM, he was my favorite character there.
Then Kingdom Hearts 2 came... and I no longer liked him so much.

[Bueno Excelente]

Apparently this has already been stated by Flash numerous times, but this doesn't sound unreasonable in the least, and I always wondered why it was that Sora had to stop him.

The ultimate reason might be because they don't want him to open Kingdom Hearts. But then... what the hell even is Kingdom Hearts? It's the essence of all hearts, right? Sora predicted it was "LIIIIIGHT" because all humans are "GOOOOD". And then suddenly it was darkness again for some reason. And then... Mickey was inside for some other reason... and...

I DUNNO! The guy keeps pulling more and more stuff out of his ass! The appearance of Mickey and Riku at the last minute make sense in a sacrificial ending kind of way, for a surprise, but they don't make sense when you try to explain the whole thing and make "opening Kingdom Hearts to obtain new hearts for those who have none" an evil thing. Because it's not. KH had Ansem (or Xehanort, whatever) wanting to open up Kingdom Hearts because he wanted the darkness within to conquer all worlds and turn everything into pure darkness. It's kinda stupid, but with the reports and everything, it kinda made sense, in a simplistic sort of way. Until the following games screwed everything up.

Oh God, did I rage at that.
I loved him in CoM, he was my favorite character there.
Then Kingdom Hearts 2 came... and I no longer liked him so much.

Retcons! They can turn Yagami Light into Shinji Ikari!

[Blackhook]

Well, maybe it was bad to open Kingdom Hearts? The XIII tried to open it so that makes them evil?

[Bueno Excelente]

Well, maybe it was bad to open Kingdom Hearts? The XIII tried to open it so that makes them evil?

But... WHY is it bad? It's the essence of all hearts, why not explore it? Why not use it to obtain a heart yourself instead of existing as a being who can't feel? What should Nobodies do? Just... go on without feeling? Or try to be alive again? They're trying to regain their humanity. And Sora just walks in and slaughters them.

[Blackhook]

You see Xemnas is trying to use KH for his generic villain motives, but the other nobodies believe they are doing to get their hearts back....
Also it is not as if they were all friendly. Without hearts and stuff they kinda became evil...
Seriously the concept of Heartless, Nobodies and What´s-their-name-in-BBS confuses me