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Messages - Hypershell

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3751
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 12, 2009, 07:34:20 PM »
Forgot X7's 7-hit, too. >_<  I guess the longer combos with Zero just aren't my favorite moves, or something.

Real name of the "7 hit combo" which the guide book describes as a 5 slash combo, followed by Ryuuenjin.
Which is incorrect, as I've gone through that attack frame-by-frame.  It's 6 hits + Ryuuenjin.  Two slashes (2nd combo and uppercut) are repeated so it could be taken as 4 unique moves + Ryuuenjin, but either way, 5 + Ryuuenjin doesn't work.

Given their lack of attention to detail, and the switcheroo with Model OX, I think the Messenko/Rekkoha issue can be safely attributed to an error on their part (similar to the X2 "Neo Sigma" mixup from our other discussion).

Either way, this is nice ammunition for the drones that continue to claim that the Zero-series disregards everything after X5.

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アースクラッシュ - Earth Crush - Zero's uncharged ground pounding move, the old X2 name instead of the later used "Earth Geyser"
Huh, I never knew there were official names for the attacks in X2.  Any others of note from back then, like his dashing attack?

Isn't that Split Heavens?
One of many names that has been applied.  That one is Z3 as I recall, but it was fire-based, as it is every time it appears in the Zero series (sans Omega).

The two neutral-element names for it known without having to translate japanese books (thanks, Marshmallow) are Rising (Xtremes) and Rising Fang (ZX Advent).  The earlier is confusing due to "Rising slash" being used to describe the standing attack in the Zero series.

3752
X / Re: Armors and Weapons
« on: July 12, 2009, 03:08:11 AM »
Unknown in the story.  X and Zero are listed in the X2 Power/Speed ratings as "????", before Zero was ever put in the player's hands.  X3 reiterates it, and also adds the Sigma Virus to the "unknown" pile.

I consider that a testament to their "impossible to analyze" nature as elaborated in X5 and X6.  Even Gate, as much progress as he made on Zero, admits that he could have spent more time on it.  Then a few centuries later we have Ciel's Copy X, which Zero recalls as being weaker than the real thing.

3753
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 12, 2009, 02:54:26 AM »
Plus Lifesavors sprite is triggered to dissapear only by the dialoge box closing and the battle starting, which may also affect it. he is meant to interact with the dialogue exchange on ly, therefore, in any other setting, he locks and stays there.
That was my thought.

3754
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 12, 2009, 02:52:26 AM »
Either one could be called the Rising slash, as the track record for both has been established in portable titles.  But yeah, I meant the standing one.  To avoid confusion I'd use "Rising Fang" as the jumping one.

3755
Better sound, too. 8)

3756
Red Gyarados footage

Riding a shadow in the water.  *sighs*  Oh well, maybe you can at least see your actual Pokemon jumping in and out.

Gyarados sprite looks IN-FREAKING-CREDIBLY kickass.  And what little of the music that can be heard was awesome, as well.  Consider this pre-ordered as soon as the U.S. release date is confirmed.

3757
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 11, 2009, 08:08:51 PM »
Would whether or not it dissipates be dictated by what frames it finds, though?  If it's finding the wrong frames for plasma ball and/or wall impact, shouldn't it disappear after a set number of frames have passed?  Or is the fact that Lifesaver doesn't animate locking it into place?

(I'm sure we're boring the hell out of other readers)

3758
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 11, 2009, 08:06:38 PM »
No, Omega does.  I meant it was never done before him.

3759
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 11, 2009, 06:54:46 PM »
Nice shot, Oakes.  I forgot about that one.

3760
X / Re: What did Lumine mean?
« on: July 11, 2009, 06:41:17 PM »
External Attack vs External occurrence. Attack as in purpose. Occurrence as in accident/etc.
For some reason I can't shake the image of Axl tripping and landing face-first on a cookie cutter.

The body shares some distinctions with the X1 design overall, but are not congruent and have many minor differentiations, and some things seem more borrowed from other Sigma forms.
I notice the X3 arms and that is hard to ignore.  Nevertheless, the art style change with X8 makes nit-picking details of the body very, very shaky.  There is no image as to how previous Sigma bodies, X1's in particular, fit within that style.  There's also the question of why a conglamorate-body didn't draw further suspicion, what the hell is the DNA of Sigma's later bodies doing on file?  The body, in physical appearance at least, seems to lean more strongly toward X1 than any other.  Nevertheless, you do bring up a valid viewpoint.

One more question mark to throw onto the pile.

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Instead of being directly infected by the virus themselves and being changed in their own individual way by it, they are infected with Sigma's virus-ridden logic, thus they are affected the exact same way that Sigma was affected by the virus. Instead of having a virus that brings out their own evil, they are sharing Sigma's evil. Effected by the effects of the effected. The virus is responsible at the base of it all, but it is applied in a completely vicarious manner, so they're possibly getting more along with it than any other virus infected individual before. They are infected with Sigma, the underlying virus code is an integral part of Sigma, and now an integral part of them too...  It's hidden but never out of the equation. I think I'm talking in circles, but I'm at a loss to explain it any better.
Well, that is a hell of a better explanation for viral involvement than I've ever heard previously.  It's plausible, though I don't buy it as certainty.

One aspect of X8's presentation that continues to linger in my head is the early reveal of Sigma's copy body.  X specifically asks Alia about it, and she doesn't seem to consider it unusual, or threatening.  You'd think that the possibility of second-hand corruption such as that would have been taken into consideration there, what with how infamous the maverick virus is, and the fact that they have partial-hindsight in that something has obviously gone wrong with the allegedly infallible.  But that's an oddity, not an outright contradiction.

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Alia did do that analysis, but I don't really get whether the Sigma data she found when comparing Axl's copy chip and the irregulars' was a common feature in just the bad guys' copy chips, or in theirs and Axl's both. Lumine said that about prototypes not having the specs to do so, and presumably that is why Axl is not on the guest list for their new world party. If Axl is lacking the Sigma data that makes things easy. If he has it though, and for whatever reason just has yet to be effected, then more explanation is in serious order. Maybe he is somehow defective. Maybe his scars are a mark of his being a failed work.
The "defective" bit reminds me of ZXA.  But yeah, we could definitely stand more details there.  For as much a potential impact on the storyline as X8 has, explanation was definitely not its strong point.

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I think the only thing that explains Vile's presence in X8 is his popularity. Dynamo seems just as willing to be Sigma's [sonic slicer] and likes following orders a lot more, but he wasn't chosen. Vile appears inexplicably as form "V" and the show goes on. The choice to revive him seems fairly arbitrary. Maybe Sigma just missed the little dickens.
That would have pretty much been my mindset before MHX, but I think there is a reason they touched on that.  Vile was depicted as a loose cannon in X3, so his wailing on X1 mavs wasn't something I found all that unusual.  However explanations for his behavior, his motivations in particular (or even the fact that he has any), were never really explored before, so to me, that was of particular interest.

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But Inti and Sigma both seem to see a potential link, even if you do not.
However you could say the same thing about X, who has no direct connection.  Sigma's interested in X's potential to advance Reploids, and has taken stabs at working X and/or X's data in his favor a few times since (X3 and X7).  Inti, meanwhile, was ready to have the original X as the genocidal lunatic you had to kill in Z1.

Sigma sees in Zero power, and power is potential to evolve.  And Inti really gave a generic BS/no comment answer when asked.  In all honesty I don't think they follow detail that well.

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On the other hand, Sigma after being defeated was able to revive much more completely the next time, maybe defeating him in X6 did Sigma a huge favor.
Although speculation, I'd wager that Sigma could complete his revival in due time regardless.  Three weeks is a pretty short timeframe for Sigma to be back and kicking already.

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Isoc certainly gave Gate's new world order the old college try, so much that he put High Max's repairs ahead of capturing Zero.
He's played his lot with Gate in the interest of recovering Zero, and Gate had already noticed Isoc's obsession, so Isoc knows he has to be more cautious.  At that point he probably just had to play the role through, rather than risk severing connections with Gate too early.

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You mean, if it's a retcon? Then of course. Throw another contradiction into the pile. It well may be. I'm going to go on the good faith that it isn't, until proven that it is.
Well, perhaps.  I'm reluctant to use the word "retcon" as MegaMan fans tend to equate that to simply throwing away the past, which isn't what happened here (not like X5/X6's three years/three weeks).  Rather they are simply exploring a possibility that has not been previously addressed; previous sources were simply written in that context.  So that is one thing we could be looking at.  Another is the line between evil and Reploid superiority, as I mentioned later in that post, and how the virus may fit with one but not the other.  In that case we'd be looking at not a retcon but rather some necessary splitting hairs.

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Though as far as his first rebellion goes, the extent to which he actually put the virus to use in gathering supporters is little indicated and entirely unknown. How Sigma came about his virus-enabled death cheat is even less clear. Maybe Serges had something to do with explaining that, since he built Sigma's X2 body for him. But it seems you don't even have to have mysterious virus powers to be revived, it never kept ol' Vile down. So even that need is somewhat loose.
As usual, lack of detail is true.  However the lack of information on the virus is to be expected as its existence wasn't public knowledge back then.  Sigma, in the original X1, does deliver an end-of-game message that he will return.

Vile, however, hasn't been reviving on his own, or at least he didn't in X3.  X8 doesn't seem to find the notable handicap of his being dead to be worth mentioning.

A possible untold sidestory in the interim (before X7, due to Axl not knowing him) would be my best guess.  If we're to take "V" as being a roman numeral (Zan tells me some japanese source states so, but I myself am not sure), we're likely be missing two Vile forms somewhere along the line.

On the other hand, Vile self-revives/death-fakes his way through the final X8 encounter, so who knows what was going on there.

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But, why would he decide that? The greatest advancements in robotics up to that point were made by humans, like Light, Cain and Wily. And while unbeknown to him, over a century later, would still be with researchers like Weil and Ciel's lineage. Human ingenuity advances the state of the world just as much as reploid. Human reliance on reploids pretty much guarantees both the need to continue production and to improve upon it.  Sigma is revered even as a guardian of humanity. So trying to kill them off... seems not so much logical, as simply hate inspired. And if there's one thing that an evil virus should do, it's inspire hate.
As Zan said it's more a lack of feeling than hated.  Whatever value human ingenuity has over a Reploid's is something very intangible that Sigma may well not acknowledge.  There is, after all, such a thing as Reploid researchers (see Gate).  He may consider the greater influence of emotions among humans to be a hindrance as he at first believed with X.  They're certainly physically inferior, and if Reploids can be just as cunning and intelligent, what need is there for humans any longer?  Why must Reploids waste time, energy, and numbers protecting them?

Sigma is in essence exercising survival of the fittest.  Reploids came into existence thanks to humans, they were necessary to establish Reploids as a respectable power.  But once Reploids have grown to the point of being able to dispose of that crutch, why shouldn't they?

3761
X / Re: Armors and Weapons
« on: July 11, 2009, 05:49:33 PM »
Don't be a smartass. :P

X is unknown, as is Zero.

3762
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 11, 2009, 05:48:46 PM »
By "odd" I meant it seems oddly coherent for a bug.  To get Lifesaver's sprite instead of a bunch of garbage.  I know jack [parasitic bomb] about programming and even I'm curious is to how that happens.

3763
X / Re: Armors and Weapons
« on: July 11, 2009, 05:44:54 PM »
There's kinda truth to both points on that.  Note how much of a beating the various Sigma clones in X8's final stage can take.  By no means boss-level, but still pretty darn tough.

Of course, there was a previous Copy Sigma who WAS a boss, so that kinda throws a monkey wrench into the comparison.  Nevertheless, dialogue in X8 seems to show that the top of the older pack is still pretty respectable in present-day.

If you compare the Power/Speed ratings between X2 and X3 you can get a nice idea of progress and how Sigma compares as well.  Sigma's Power and Speed in X2 are each 18500rp.  No animaloid in X3 can touch that.  Doppler is close but not quite, Bit almost matches in Speed, Byte has a slight edge in Power.  Only Gokarmachine and Sigma's new bodies truly surpass that mark.

3764
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 11, 2009, 05:34:34 PM »
I get that.  It's just that people read it, don't know where it came from, and get the message that it's "the same attack".  It isn't.  Obvious homage, but still.

Thus we get our grey areas such as Tenshouha vs. Rekkoha.  Which is Omega's healing move?  Truth be told is matches neither, Tenshouha is a single solid beam and neither should be rotating.  Likewise, Rekkoha comes from above, so OX's max charged criss-crossing ground punch doesn't match it either.  The only real logic to matching Tenshouha to Omega and Rekkoha to OX is comparable range (and really Omega has more width than Tenshouha does).

Zero and derivatives thereof (Omega, OX) have collectively seen 14 different ground-punching attacks, with 8 names thus far having been given for them.  The only names to ever be repeated were Earth Gaizer and Shin Messenko, and that is when the attacks were frame-for-frame identical.

No homing effect
Only applicable to the saber wave, as X5 has both homing and non-homing buster shots.

Of course, the move and its derivatives originate in X2, same for ground punching, so it's fitting enough.

Using a uppercut-slash to launch a saber wave was never done previously either.  Nice touch, I think.

3765
Rockman Series / Re: How has Rockman performed in Japan?
« on: July 11, 2009, 05:12:32 PM »
Besides the whole Japan-lacking-taste thing, why the hell is X5 the best-selling PS1 game?

I also don't see Z4 on the list.

3766
I'm sure Surf will show you riding SOMETHING, as it has since R/S, but the question is if you can discern it as the actual Pokemon you have.  Well, if they're making walking sprites for every 'man, here's hoping they've got swimming as well.  Hell, it could be the same sprites just half-submerged...

Speaking of which...does that mean swimming Pokemon are going to be hovering as in the console games if they follow you outside?

Lastly, I know some will be delighted at Mewtwo. 8D
F*@#! YEAH!

3767
Gaming / Re: Super Smash Bros. Thread
« on: July 11, 2009, 04:56:46 PM »
You guys (Taiyou and Jelly) must have been tired.  A lot of Super Dragon [twin slasher] was going on between 11:15 and 1 AM.  Lots of fun, though. 8)

It was nice to have a chance to use Peach again.  My Peach stands basically no chance against PB and Crimson, so I didn't get to see much of her dancing 'till last night.

3768
X / Re: Why aren't copy reploids near unkillable?
« on: July 10, 2009, 03:28:46 AM »
Even if you can't browse sourcebooks or read japanese, you still have your imagination.
This man speaks truth, 'cuz I can't read a damn word of Japanese (translating "crossfire" with a katakana table on the internet took me about ten minutes >_< ).  I just pay attention and archive whatever is of particular interest to me.

I was specifically referring to external damage. In the Redips-Spider revelation scene, is it not the case that Redips' is heavily sparking until he transforms into Spider and back?
Redips offers the SFM speech just after transforming back from Spider, and speaks to them as if they should have taken notice sooner, so one has to wonder if anything is supposed to be read into the context of that.  Was Redips in posession of some SFM fragment(s) beforehand, relevant in some way to him maintaining the Spider act?  Not sure on that one.

But really, in general, Command Mission is inconsistent with other games in its Copy Chip useage.  Not only with Axl but also with the Mavericks (the rematches are said to be Copy Chip 'roids, but they do not revert back at death).  Popularly assumed explanation with Axl is that he saw some upgrade in the interim between the rest of the series and XCM; the same may apply to Copy Chips in general.  Recall in X8's ending that production had resumed some time after the battle with Lumine, so it's very well possible that there were other revisions to the chips since then.

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I really wonder about that ability... I'm inclined to believe it's not a Copy Chip based ability, otherwise, that would spoil his cover, but why else would both Axl and Spider have the same ability? Maybe because of their similar stealth orientated origins?
It does seem to be a pretty odd giveaway.  But then every non-standard weapon in the game appears to be ignored for story purposes, so who can say?

3769
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 10, 2009, 03:13:53 AM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi5Zhz9oEU" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYi5Zhz9oEU</a>

it is a  bug. look at where he is standing. he is below he standing line. and he is in blue inverse.its probably a glitch with the buster thing. how much damage does it do? It might be the game is reading the plasma bubble or the charge  buster itself for the damage.
I know that, I've done it myself several times.  Seems like odd behavior for a bug, though, to produce a new "attack" like that.

On damage, the video shows you (multiply by two to compensate for Black Zero).  But X5's life bars are solid lines that don't show individual HP well.

3770
Zero / Re: About Omega
« on: July 10, 2009, 02:56:53 AM »
Many fans liken it to Akuma's
Shun Goku Satsu
.  Of course, none of the Street Fighter characters use a sword, and Shun Goku Satsu always blacks/whites out so you can't see what's going on, and delivers far more than seven hits.  They just see a similar theme of "go nuts and kill something", I guess.

(although Omega uses the X2 version.)
It doesn't directly match any version, as Omega is the first (not counting X) to have varying buster strength between the two shots.  But if you must draw a comparison X5 would probably be your closest, due to firing both shots out of a single buster.

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Tenshouha is an X8 move, Rakuhouha and Ryuuenjin are X4, and Ox uses Rekkouha from X6 instead of Tenshouha. those are all X series moves. thats the whole point of Omega Zero. he uses X series moves, to emphasize that its Zero's body from the X series.
The carry-over of X-series attack names for Omega (and likewise Model OX) is fan-based.  I'm unaware of any official source for the names of his moves (one more reason to curse the fact that Model O isn't in ZXA).  And Inti already has a track record of renaming the exact same attack, a rising fire move is after all in every game from Z2 to ZX.

3771
Gaming / Re: Super Smash Bros. Thread
« on: July 10, 2009, 02:39:33 AM »
Mrs. Shell has a show tomorrow that I'm supposed to attend, but she also works Saturday, so we shouldn't be out TOO late (can't imagine we'd be out much past 11).  When I'm home, I'll be there.

3772
If it is, it'll be all the more reason why SS outsells it horrendously.  Not as if enough people don't prefer Lugia to Ho-oh already.

Okay, I see a flaw in my logic.

But besides that little hiccup, my point still stands.
*smacks LazyMan with his magical talking fish*

Mew is 1st-gen.

Oh yeah...the gen. 4 legendaries ruined it...HO-oh was supposed to be the top pokémon....
Bull.  Mewtwo was, and STILL WOULD BE (as in Base Stat total higher than Arceus), had they not axed his Special Defense in G/S/C. 

3773
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 09, 2009, 12:17:46 AM »
It *might* happen when you block his buster shots (I've had more success in doing it with specials), but I'm not really sure what kind of "attack" that falls under.  Lifesaver doesn't move.  Or dissipate, which kinda lends to speculation that it might be a glitch of some sort.  He does cause damage, though.

3774
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 09, 2009, 12:04:52 AM »
You have to stall for a LONG, LONG time to get that to happen.  Easiest to do with Falcon Armor.

It's a shame UA X has no such super move.  I've stalled against him and Nightmare Zero long enough to force the music to restart.  Twice.

3775
X / Re: The Z Buster
« on: July 08, 2009, 11:57:10 PM »
Saber wave.

Courtesy of White Dragon Nall:
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Shin Messenkou, "True Destruction Flash"
The stronger version of Messenkou (the attack Zero learns from Shining Hotarunicus) used by normal, Kakusei, and Nightmare Zero. The one in which he punches the ground and makes those balls things rise.

Shingetsurin, "True Moon Ring"
Original buster attack by Kakusei Zero, in which he fires a ring of blue fire.
 
Denharei, "Electric Blade Zero"
Saber attack used by normal, Kakusei, and Nightmare Zero, in which the saber's blade is turned into a projectile.

Genmurei, "Illusion Zero"
Kakusei Zero's ultimate attack, in which he launches two extremely large beam saber blade things at you which kill instantly. When he uses this attack, he keeps on using it until you die.

Genmurei Kai, "Illusion Zero (Modified)"
The extremely weak version of Genmurei used by Nightmare Zero. Only one blade, may move slowly or quickly.

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