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Messages - Hypershell

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2051
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:47:25 AM »
But is still referenced partially within their character profiles...
Given the nature of conceptual information as I've outlined above, that proves nothing.  The ZC timeline is an exceedingly valuable source of insight, but I'm not willing to accept it as irrefutable without cross-reference.  The character profiles provide said cross-reference on their respective points, that is all.

Example: Zero's creation 1XX years ago.  We ALL had a field day with that one.

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Just X6...
Yes, I remember that debate vividly.  Still, it's a start.

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The original doesn't either; but it at least mentions its existence in Repliroids. Which is somehow related to the point of calling Zero an evil Repliroid within the same text.
That's speculation.  Reploids are derivative works from X whereas Zero is not.  It could just be bad spacing.

2052
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:36:10 AM »
I dunno, the original text about the virus turning Zero good seems to go against established fact, too. They both imply a canceling out of evil, I think. Then again, I could be (and probably am) wrong.
The Zero Collection timeline, which incidentally has since been pulled from the internet, states that the virus was created to curb Zero's aggressive tendencies.  Zero in his original state was so out-of-control violent that he would not respond to any orders, Wily's or otherwise.

The virus turning Zero good is a Three Keys point which I adamantly contested because it is seemingly contradictory to X5, undoing its own effects.  But if you look at the virus's effect on Zero as not a matter of good/evil but as a matter of dampening Zero's emotions, then it makes sense.  You have the out of control X4 flashback, the balanced Hunter we know and love, and the apathetic Awakened Zero.

because as a matter of fact, Udon's localizer also that messed up that text by trying to apply his own interpretation, born from the fan debates at that time.
To be fair, and give credit where it's due, Udon's localizers were the LEAST of the fan's concerns regarding Three Keys misconceptions.  Fans jumped to conclusions with early impressions of the Three Keys leading to the nonsense of "Light created the virus", which made its way into a few gaming websites (for that matter so did the notion of post-X5 games being non-canonical, which the Zero Collection timeline directly refutes).

If anything, Udon mentioning only X and not Reploids in general in a way makes the Keys less specific, not more.  They're basically not touching the issue of how well the "Suffering Circuit" was copied to other Reploids.  Other than that I don't see any issues with the segments you copied.

Posted on: July 20, 2010, 06:30:51 PM
Despite the disclaimer, a good 70% or so has been confirmed outside of Three Keys, though.

True as that may be, it does not excuse globalizing the validity of the facts contained within.  Aizu's own words directly state that Dark Elf's origins, more specifically the functions of her transformation to Dark Elf as stated in Three Keys, are invalid.  So the Three Keys contains both confirmed valid and confirmed invalid information.

Three Keys:
"Unfortunately, Mother Elf was overwhelmed by the effects of the Sigma Virus used to make her, which caused her to become Dark Elf and set the Elf Wars into motion."

Aizu:
"Originally, it was understood that Mother Elf was created using some properties of the Sigma Virus as a Cyber-elf with the ability to control Reploids, but some of the negative properties of the Sigma Virus were also transferred during the process, resulting in Dark Elf.  We ended up changing a couple of those details."

2053
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 21, 2010, 12:14:03 AM »
As Gonzo is unfamiliar with the Three Keys, Zan, you should probably point out that Three Keys carried the caution that it was concept info and may not be canonical (Udon allegedly chose a more definitive translation figuring that the disclaimer would be enough).  Zero-series concept includes such things as the original X being the villain, so while Three Keys offered some valuable developer insight, it was NEVER meant to be taken without a shaker of salt in either region.

The developer interviews further reiterate the Dark Elf backstory in particular, which is part of Three Keys, as having changed over the course of development (see Aizu's commentary on page 169).

2054
Gaming / Re: Metroid Discussion Thread
« on: July 20, 2010, 01:30:16 AM »
I certainly hope that was clear by my last post.  I wasn't referring to Ninja's suit as negligence, my complaints against that are simply a matter of preference.

2055
Gaming / Re: What PISSES YOU OFF mid-game?
« on: July 20, 2010, 01:28:25 AM »
online random Brawls
I have only one problem with online random Brawls:
THERE ARE OTHER STAGES BESIDES FINAL DESTINATION.

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Garchomp, Salamence
My Dragonite will destroy you.

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pretty much anytime I lose a match because Stone Edge missed.
This is why I hate tourneyfag communities in Pokemon: 80% accuracy is *NOT* the be-all end-all of physical sweeping.

Speaking of getting accuracy screwed: Fire Emblem.  When I miss on an 80-something and the enemy hits on a 60-something.  Twice.

2056
X / Re: Maverick Boss Tournament
« on: July 20, 2010, 01:19:57 AM »
Hard to argue with Blizzard Buffalo.

2057
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 20, 2010, 01:13:49 AM »
MMOCW/MMXOCW may be primarilly art books, but there's still a *LOT* of behind-the-scenes info regarding developer intentions and design inspiration.  Also some character descriptions that clarify previously ambiguous/unclear points, including specifying that Iris had the hots for Zero during Erasure (previous translations stated that in the context of saving her life, thus implying their relationship as new to the Repliforce War; this is not actually the case).

Rock points the 'gun', regardless.
I really need to stick to X/Zero/ZX/Legends (or at the very least, post-MM8).  It's what I'm good at.

Even though, you know, Timeman and Oilman suddenly exist.
No offense, but nobody should *NEED* to tell you why that point is moot.  The same criticism applies to all regions, thus it does not excuse Gauntlet neglecting PU for the sake of the U.S.

Quality isn't the issue here. It's for ease of reference.

We've established, when you previously granted genuine translation errors, that Xtreme2 does not take place in a bathroom, correct?  In what way is the Reploid Research Lavatory more difficult to reference than any legitimate setting?

-Inconsistent names everywhere. They can't even stick to their own stuff.
-The existence of Monsteropolis; that multi faceted land of robot-like humanoids.
-Roll going completely unmentioned and unnamed until MM3/MM4, and even then there are those sources considering her either a new character, or not a robot at all.
-Exclusion of a LOT of facts that were originally written in the manuals.
-Plasma Cannon versus a Rock Buster with Solar Bullets, in fact, MM4 made it sound like the Mega Buster was introduced in 4; it was only upgraded in 4.
-Time Skimmer, Chronos Institute, 37 something years into the future.

-Altered the game instead of properly translating them (X2, X3, X5, MM7, PU, ZERO, Legends, EXE4+.). Resulting in Serges' character being butchered, Vile being killed years ago while it wasn't nearly that long and Vile haunting X in his dreams while he should actually be reviving again and again, Wily being a comrade of X's, Rock being more than a robot when he isn't, ProtoMan outright exclaiming Light is his father when he wants nothing to do with Light, Rock being called "Blue Bomber" instead of "Original" by his copy, everybody making too many puns in an already overly cutesy game. A hand held gun being the Z-buster; rectified in Z-collection. Confusing what a Decoy is by naming them Carbons and somehow introducing yet another name; Betas. Confusing the mankind playback plan with what Juno was doing. Changing the origin of Rock Voulnutt's name. "What a fine young man she is.", abbreviating terms like crazy and cutting out a lot of content.

-The Reploid War lasting centuries while we're still in the same century (21XX)
-Zero acting weird to an anti-virus while he only acts weird to the virus itself.
-Exclusion of X's in-depth schematics and Right's deeper warning about worrying.
-Nearly all dates in Cain's Journal being off, two journal dates being unified as one, and there being stuff about Zero in the Sigma rebellion date.

-Lab accident before the unveiling of the first six robots in which one robots goes array and sets the lab on fire. An enraged Wily accusing Light of jealousy and intentionally sabotaging the experiment; which leads to Wily stealing the plans of the industrial robots and disappearing for several months.
-Rock being a courageous male human wearing a robot shell so that Wily cannot reprogram MegaMan.
-Rush transformations having impossible specs. No way Rush Marine can move that fast!
-Zero being X's trusted robocanine that died in X1. Aaarf, he wants one!

And I probably forgot a LOT of things.
Well, by simply listing "inconsistent names everywhere", you rule out most of the easy stuff.  It might be worth noting that it's not even just character names.  Force Armor and Great Legacy come to mind.

Items from earlier in the discussion not in that list are the missing 5th Command Mission newbie and the infamous Laguz Island bathroom of evil.

-I know that Marshmallow Man has contested the notion of Zero's "awakening" being incomplete in X5.  This is presumably not in the original script.

-Alia's last line in the Zeroless X6 ending was tweaked a bit to be more suggestive as to her having an attachment to X.

-"Mega Man" starring in X-series games has been going on as recently as X8.

-Pretty much all mentions of Cain in the X4 manual.  His creating Double, and the Cain Labs directive about restructuring the 17th and 0th Hunter Units (another manual point which is contradictory to the game storyline, I might add).

Posted on: July 19, 2010, 07:10:52 PM
***MISSING RED LANTERN TURIAN QUOTE***

Too slow, Red.  But I'll clarify further.

He said that only of MMOCW/MMXOCW, not MMZOCW, which is both.  And really, all are both.  It's a matter of what the primary role is.  MMZOCW is the sole sourcebook of the Zero series.  MMOCW/MMXOCW add to existing Japanese books and thus primarily focus on art/development, but even so, there are a few nifty tidbits.  Ever wonder if Berkana ever had a legitimate occupation?  That's in there.

2058
Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:57:14 PM »
I assumed that was an exaggerated criticism of the game's drifting mechanics (from what I understand they're a lot more rigid than PS3's).  But yeah, clarification would be nice.

2059
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:52:01 PM »
I'd say that Cinnamon's appearance makes her the more likely, but Chameleon Chips being what they are, you can never be too sure.

Either way, Axl's set up to be traumatized.  He thinks that Marino is checking him out, and Cinnamon's the only girl his own age.

2060
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:45:57 PM »
XCM's box reads "5 new playable characters, including a mysterious female Reploid."

That accounts for Massimo, Spider, and one of the girls.  Meaning one of the other girls is a man and that there is another invisible party member who does absolutely nothing.

2061
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:40:52 PM »
Manuals vs. in-game text, as I established *AGES* ago, is perfectly observable in U.S. localizations.

Manuals gave us the Force Armor, multiple centuries of war within 21XX, desk jobs constituting a "mysterious disappearance", and the notion that one of the newbies in XCM is a female impersonator, while another is two people (two PLAYABLE people; Redips doesn't count).

I was making a joke as to people saying Zero looks like a girl, and making him such in quite a bit of fanart.
Hell, the official manga makes Zero look like a girl.  Iwamoto's obsession with removing Zero's helmet doesn't help any.

Zero being female would certainly make the whole Zero/Iris thing more interesting.
A couple of fancomics have already tackled that one.  Reploid Hunter Iris comes to mind as at least Iris thinking that.

2062
Gaming / Re: Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:29:14 PM »
it's the way we say we love each other. =3
I'm touched, but truth be told, I just get bored sometimes.

2063
Gaming / Re: Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:26:46 PM »
...it makes sense in the MEGAMAN 8-BIT GAMES.
You didn't specify.

Metal Blade objects to that statement.

2064
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 10:20:32 PM »
Inconsistencies by their very nature damage continuity, but they can easily, and have already in MegaMan/Rockman games, occur for reasons completely irrelevant to localization.  So I'm not really sure where you're going with that.  The ability to note inconsistencies is necessary to either viewpoint.

2065
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:57:35 PM »
If they cannot be reconciled with each other, much less the storyline as it continues, they do not constitute a single continuity.  They constitute, at best, their own individual continuities which have since been abandoned (at worst, some marketing guy pulling stuff completely out of his ass).  Thus we arrive at several "U.S. continuities", and you must specify which source to which you are referring.  Such is the case when discussing the storyline of the Ruby Spears cartoon, for example.

"Canon" or "continuity" can truthfully refer to any interpretation one chooses.  It may not even refer to the game storylines at all but to entirely separate merchandise that re-interprets the story (see: "manga is not canon"; the shorthand way of saying manga is its own canon, and is not game canon).  When written with no descriptor, it is assumed the most authoritative one; in this case, the original from which all others are derived.  Using the word "interpretation" simply specifies that the continuity at hand is a derivitave.

 For "continuity", or the "continuous or connected whole", to exist, the changes must be continuous and connected, functioning as one.  Rock appearing on MM1 box art as a 40 year old guy with gold highlights and a pistol does not form continuity with any other MegaMan information.  It is not continuous, not connected, not acknowledged, by any other source in the game story, except as an inside joke.  To refer to its continuity is literally to refer to a world with no other source whatsoever besides that one image.

2066
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:48:41 PM »
You know, if someone were to take the time and thought that Hyper, Zan's and whoever has the urge to debate Megaman timelines in an off topic conversation like serious business and convert that into a an operation that's constructive, we could have cured cancer three times over by now.
Maybe in other corners of the world.  Here in the U.S., the Ferrengi run the FDA.

Well, nothing in the US continuity has affected the JP continuity, which is the "authoritative" one, so there's no harm in continuing to refer to it as "the US continuity". >.>
Again, I'm not objecting to that.  My issue is not using the term, "U.S. continuity", but rather how you define it.  Or, your page of factoids stating every localization kwirk as its own continuity.  The "U.S. continuity", as I see it, consists of proper noun changes, and Roll Caskett being able to speak and choosing her favorite video game character prior to age 1.  That's pretty much it.

An example from the page you linked earlier: "Arm Cannon".  How the hell is that continuity?  It's a self-explanatory informal label, frequently used to this day by fans to differentiate traditional Busters from "Buster Shot" type weapons.  It's not in any way story-relevant.

As you yourself stated, Japan's continuity is the "authorative" one.  U.S. continuity will never affect it.  Continuity within the U.S. localizations can only exist where such changes are consistent (change of terms, and side effects thereof; no other alteration is currently pursued by CoA).  Any other alteration, to be forgotten by future translations, is a creative liberty of no story relevance.  The story is written in Japan, and merely translated elsewhere.

2067
Gaming / Re: Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:32:44 PM »
Not shooting up makes sense in the 8-bit games
Samus objects to that statement.

2068
Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread
« on: July 18, 2010, 09:10:59 PM »
I'll take that as a "bad" for PSP Modnation...



Well, scoped out Nintendo's website, and I must say, this level looks especially awesome:

High jumps in a classic pipe/block setting?  Yes, please!

2069
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 07:51:18 PM »
But that's completely off-topic tho...
Oh, Vixy, aren't we past that? 8D

(in all fairness, there really is nothing MMU-relevant to discuss besides the fact that it exists, which has been well covered, otherwise I'd at least make an effort to maintain that simultaneously with the continuity schtik)

2070
Gaming / Re: Sonic Colors (Wii, DS)
« on: July 18, 2010, 07:48:29 PM »
I believe he's been told that, Kieran.
*raises hand*

And agreed.  It's a play style.  Realism is not always paramount.  If it was, no character without thruster-equipped suits would be able to alter their momentum in mid-air.

2071
Gaming / Re: Metroid Discussion Thread
« on: July 18, 2010, 07:46:07 PM »
And what you call negligence, I call artistic freedom.
You call it artistic freedom to change designs mid-game based on camera angle?

2072
Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread
« on: July 18, 2010, 07:44:34 PM »
Gotta love dat Mario Kart 64/Super Circuit remix!
Sweeeeeeet!

Damn, I want this game.

2073
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 07:34:30 PM »
2.) No matter what you do, you can't change the fact that alterations were made. Dismissing them as "liberties" doesn't make them go away.
Yet you cannot deny that the game creators deem them irrelevant for the purpose of continuing the story.  If the localization team does the same, then the "continuity" we arrive at is no longer even CoA-approved, and exists solely to the players who take it upon themselves to do so.  Dangerously close to fanon, I'd say.

He's absolutely nothing like Neko.
Neko is female and therefore, whether she will admit it or not, unable to resist your sexiness.  A major factor which does not affect the rest of us mere mortals not created in the image of Blues.

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Haha, from what I've seen of most Japanese writing at times, they don't care much about continuity.
Capcom isn't Inticreates.  Even so, Inti does this as a means to an end, not as a routine practice with every title.

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Or X can not see MegaMan as a Maverick.
Pointing a gun at an unarmed human begging forgiveness is exceedingly difficult to excuse.  X hesitates to pull the trigger on characters even when their resolve is unshaken.  Even if X manages to come to that conclusion, it would only be through great deliberation, which would not exist in the original game.

By that logic, no one would be allowed to talk about Sonia Belmont just because IGA struck her from the timeline.
First of all, nobody is talking about what can and cannot be talked about.

Second, an existing character later stricken from the timeline may be discussed as a valid "what if" scenario.  By taking such an extremes you rule out the validity of discussing Awakened Zero.

2074
Zero / Re: The Blonde CO's Identity
« on: July 18, 2010, 04:10:18 PM »
Well, besides Isos and Pasos I have a pretty good track record with the male/female thing (Foxtar I maintain is meant to be a female "illusion" in humanoid form, fox demon lore and all; it's hard to excuse high heels on a male).  Zero was a simple matter of personal pronouns, and despite Harpuia's voice/inspiration, he doesn't act or look particularly effeminate.  MAYBE the fact that his colored leg armor ends above his knees giving a "stocking" look, but this is shared by Phantom.  Not to mention this is the game that put Zero in a thong, so bizarre armor choices are already established as normal.  And his voice sounds more androgynous than female, IMHO.  Not unlike Copy X.

Then again, when I was a kid and I played X1 on the SNES, I thought Zero was a girl but that was due to the fact that at that age, I couldn't read English and even the German manual turned Zero into a female.
Information that would be useful to us elsewhere, thank you.

2075
News and Announcements / Re: MEGAMAN UNIVERSE!!!!!! (PS3/360)
« on: July 18, 2010, 04:02:40 PM »
I just think of him as Necko's replacement.

.....so then why can't their be two continuities?
I never said there aren't.  I said that the difference between them is naming and the unavoidable side effects thereof.  The page of factoids that Gonzo linked is creative liberties, not continuity.  There's a difference.  Continuity is to be respected by future projects.

Actually, stuff like that can be fixed with a simple re-write or retcon.
In other words, disregarded.  Why?  Because Japanese continuity demands it so.  My point.



BTW, Saber provides us with a bit of German continuity:
Then again, when I was a kid and I played X1 on the SNES, I thought Zero was a girl but that was due to the fact that at that age, I couldn't read English and even the German manual turned Zero into a female.

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