Messages

1601

Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online

« on: November 27, 2010, 07:08:11 PM »

I agree that the plasma/solar distinction is a bit of splitting hairs (though I'm surprised to see Zan beat me to that in light of our other discussions on localization terms).  "Solar" is commonly associated with light energy, but it technically refers to the sun, which is a big ball of plasma in a constant state of nuclear fusion.  Consider if you will that X is equipped with a "Micro-fusion Fuel Tank", and I would not be willing to bet much on X or his buster being powered simply by daylight.

Localized terms in Korea have always been a bit of a mish-mash; as I recall both "MegaMan" and "Rockman" brands have made it over there.  So, that much is to be expected.  I would HOPE that their working with CoJ on this one would net them a bit more credibility, but since they are approaching this game as quite possibly Korean-exclusive that may or may not make it to Japan, RMO simply being its own AU is pretty likely.  It's the most clean-cut way of dealing with it, even more so from Capcom's standpoint than from ours.

The gameplay mold of MegaMan more or less mandates that any playable character have some equivalant of VWS.  To that end, Duo in Power Fighters is the hardest to excuse.  ProtoMan and Bass can be swept under the rug by association of their design with Rock's (Wily playing copy-cat).  Axl has the benefit of Hunter support, which works to the benefit of all RMO players.  It is a known fact that DNA data is feasible for use as general power-ups ever since Xtreme2, further reinforced by X5 and X7 (the latter clarifying that such data is transferable without much hassle, but the ability to utilize it is fairly specialized).  The "mysteriousness" of X's VWS most likely refers to his ability to utilize such data independently.  Axl, if put in that same boat, would theoretically be stuck with only his Copy Chip abilities (read: ZXA).

Could you elaborate what you mean here? I'm not sure I quite understand.

Zero "disappearing" in either X6 fork leads only to MMZ.  RMO requires Zero is "dead", not the same thing, therefore his "disappearance" in an X6 fork conceivably not leading to MMZ is unexplained.

The rest is the varying events which currently tie the entirety of MMX main series to MMZ.  Zero's X6 ending itself being a part of the "main" timeline, Snipe Anteater, Zero's dreams, and our loose connections to Axl.  I'm not willing to completely rewrite the background behind ALL of these things, based on what RMO "might" be doing.

I think it could well be either that:
1. Cause and effect A - Force Metal use for reploids is forbidden due to the dangerous nature proven in CM.
2. Cause and effect B - Force Metal has already been used up due to its finite nature of coming from but one singular asteroid.
3. Branching effect - The meteoroid fell but in their timeline nobody ever studied it because they were too busy having Elf Wars.
4. Complete break - Force Metal does not exist in their timeline at all.

#2 falls in line with Cinnamon, the "Force Metal Generator", being targeted by the Rebellion even within XCM; surely if any Force Metal research were to continue her role would be that much more important as time went on.

What was Zero's power source again?

Some unspecified derivative of Bassnium/Fortenium research.

But let's amuse the notion of "region" for a second; what if Capcom of Japan brings the title over?

You know, it occurs to me more and more lately that not every localized term is necessarily pulled out of its respective regional office's ass.  Recall, if you will, with Legends 3, that it was Capcom Japan which corrected jgonzo on Aero's name being Sephira outside of Japan.  Unless specifically told, we really have no way of knowing when and to what extent CoJ is involved with such things.

The X-series itself acknowledges it in a way; RockmanX6. It was what led to Gate's madness.

In all fairness, X6's virally contagious "piece of Zero" follows a known and massive viral assault on Zero in X5.  That doesn't necessarily point to Zero spreading the virus at all times.

1602

Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online

« on: November 27, 2010, 04:38:11 PM »

Roll was cloned too? Did I miss a news post or something here?

Roll was in the first anime trailer, distressed as she was separated from Rock in a crowd.  So, she is seemingly present in some capacity.  No further specifics are known.

What I meant is that X7 to XCM are on itself a single story arc disconnected from X6. X6's story arc is instead continued in Rockman Zero. Likewise, X7 to XCM have no alternate endings; X6 was the last title to have them. Ofcourse, outside of X5, none of the previous alternate endings ever lead to the next game not happening.

Fair enough, I'm just saying that while X7 leads directly to X8, X8 does not directly lead to XCM.  X8 was released after XCM and leaves a lot of questions that still need to be answered before XCM can kick off.

I consider XCM about as much of the "Copy Chip" story arc as ZXA is: Yes there are recurring themes but they're pretty well distanced from each other.  The Copy Chip is mainly emphasized in XCM simply to justify Axl's presence; it's not the central focus that it was in X8.

It could be taken to mean that he would indeed seal himself away, regardless if you found him or not.

That's what I'm leaning towards.  In such a case, both roads end at MMZ, so we're looking at more of a much larger version of the X2/X3 alternate scenarios.  Different means, same end.  Although granted, one can't help but be curious as to how X handling the remainder of the wars on his own goes, particularly during X7.

While we can certainly see how X7-XCM are relevant to RMO, I'm just not seeing how the X6 split, in and of itself, is.  Zero's ending does not allow writing X7-XCM out of MMZ's continuity unless we write it, ZXA, and X7's premonitions off as "just one of those things" in the same category as the Guardians witnessing Ragnarok.  That's a bit too much for me to simply "excuse" under some newly written alternate explanations; it makes Inticreates' storytelling look a lot more organized by comparison.

Whatever timeline split is relevant to RMO, I expect to be wholly covered in RMO's backstory.  Trying to make X6 it may seem to make sense in light of the pulled ZC website, but reconciling that with the whole of the X-series gets convoluted real fast.

Alternatively, the Zero Nightmare is still on the loose, leading to a different future. With all that scene could imply, we really need more information about it...

Nightmare Zero may or may not have been toasted once the Nightmare Virus was destroyed, so that's pretty open (Capcom has always done a lousy job of explaining the defeat of viral enemies.).  Yeah, we could always use more info...

1603

Zero / Re: Megaman Zero: The Fandub Project

« on: November 27, 2010, 04:10:00 PM »

Yes.  In fact, I'm gonna quote OBJECTION MAN, just 'cuz it's true:

Lucas IS Zero

The end.

That said, a fandub is a fandub, we kinda expect that a no-name will take the role of Zero.  So, good luck.

Ever since that MMX4 fandub sprung up, that's now official evidence to the fans he can show up anywhere.

Well, he did ONE cutscene, plus your varying RPM quotes, for the fun of it.  The rest of X4 was just me screwing with X8/XCM rips.

There's a big difference between that and dedicating oneself to a full project.  If we could get him to do that, I'd still be pestering people about redubbing the rest of X4's videos.  *shrugs*

1604

Rockman Series / Re: The story of Rockman Online

« on: November 27, 2010, 04:02:37 PM »

No telling what a shiny light over half the planet means, but yeah, I'm wondering what impact Light and Wily are going to have on this myself.  They were shown, they're pretty heavily referenced, they seem to be a big deal in terms of the game's story.

...for that matter, this could go a ways as to explaining the Classic characters' exclusion from player selection.  IF there are some time travel shenanigans going on, then maybe Rock, ProtoMan, and Bass are not DNA clones at all.

We've got some tough questions to answer either way.  If they're not clones, then why are Rock and ProtoMan duking it out?  If they are, then what was the point of cloning Roll?

Well, this and XCM always having been a "gaiden", does lend credit to a split before XCM. But as is we can't really disconnect XCM from X7 and X8. But we can disconnect X7 and X8 from X6's Zero Ending.

XCM *IS* disconnected from X8, though.  While there is a thematic Copy Chip/Evolution of Reploids similarity, there is no direct connection between Red Alert/Lumine/Sigma and XCM.  Further, Axl's own statements says that our "big three" have been apart for some time (also the Hunter Class changes), and XCM doesn't account for the usual supporting cast, leaving that aspect of the story wide open as well.  There's also a considerable amount of setup time necessary for a meteor which was never identified prior to 2202 to crash, and for R&D after the point to make the progress that it had, Giga City's creation and such.  A great deal of XCM's backstory is contained within 22XX, not merely the game's own events, thus distancing it from the main series that much more.

In RO's premise, X and Zero are both dead. Without Neo Arcadia, we can't account for X's death either, yet it has happened. Certainly this relates to the way the Irregular Wars went differently. Likewise, we also inevitably have to drop Axl somewhere down the road.  So I wouldn't say Zero's sealing is much of a necessity here.

It's a matter of closure.  It's one thing to take a successful Hunter from a previous series and drop him "somewhere", simply because we're in a different era.  It's quite another to take a Hunter who was already stated to have removed himself from the story, and to never answer why.

For that matter, disappearance and death are not the same thing.  Zero is very much alive in the alternate X6 ending, and the main difference between that and the main ending is that he has "something" to take care of that is pulling him away from his duties as a Hunter.  This might seem a valid MMZ lead-in if the main ending hadn't shown us Zero's seal.  RMO CANNOT continue off of that without some further explanation, because it would have to establish how the X6 split is relevant to its respective events as opposed to MMZ's.

1605

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 27, 2010, 03:30:58 PM »

Hoo boy, we lost you on the train somewhere, and my apologies for the misunderstanding.  There's no "speculation" as to whether or not Bass and ProtoMan are playable; it's stated that they currently are not, despite appearances in artwork and trailer.  In discussing that possibility we are discussing merely a hypothetical scenario, which only wishful thinking dictates *MIGHT* yet happen as the game is still in development and less than halfway finished.  In arguing against that, you are arguing against its validity, not its likelihoood (it is already understood by those following RMO news that the likelihood is pretty low.).

Pretty sure armor in THIS game will be provided by whatever faction/Hunter Base/Neo Arcrapia exists as opposed to Duo clones popping armor out of no where and X and Zero armies getting their armor from dead scientists.

As old as this is getting, I feel compelled to point out that X getting armor from someone other than Light is nothing new.  That's been going on since Xtreme2 at the earliest; X5 at the latest.  Command Mission features three armors for him and one for Zero, the origins of such are never explained (though it is strongly implied that X's default "New Armor" is current tech due to the dash upgrade discussion).

Not taking advantage of said variety is not a decision based on player character gameplay, but much more one based on a need to return characters to their original antagonistic and support roles; having Forte return as a boss, having Blues become the mysterious ally once again. Not entirely unlike Zero's case, their promotion to player character has removed an aspect of what originally made them who they are.

Thing is, from what we've seen in the trailers, it's possible Rock might be in this boat as well (gameplay scenes show closeups of him attacking while Zero is clearly the selected player, in addition to his aiding X, from the sidelines, against AirMan in the anime trailer).  Maybe ProtoMan could be the "mysterious guy that nobody knows who's side he's on" as he was in 3-5, whereas Rock may be the "good guy on the sidelines" that ProtoMan became in 6-9.

I'm just wondering if the entire current playable Classic cast being NPCs isn't overdoing it.  That Duo may well be the only player character from that era is a bit of a letdown, but I'm still interested in seeing what they do with it.

1606

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 27, 2010, 05:33:02 AM »

Oh well. I've said my part and I stand by it. Treble is still an attachment by the way. He ATTACHES himself to Bass. Then Bass can fly. Attachment.

I don't believe I ever denied that.  But you have yet to explain how an attachment somehow invalidates itself as an ability, much less when it has long been established as a recurring standard power-up for the character.

The glaring contradiction in your argument is that Treble being an "attachment" doesn't make the Treble Boost ability any less Bass's.  Treble is Bass's support and noone else's.  Axl's varying weapons, on the other hand, are not his own, but are either purchased or found.  His own weapon is the pistols, and that's it.  By the same logic you could invalidate his Copy Chip: In the absence of expansions, the Copy Chip is worthless except for viral defense.

And yet somehow, I see Busters as plasma oriented weapons, not sniper rifles (even though he had a range amplifying weapon in Command Missions), Gernade Rifles, Flame Throwers... you get my point?

Double-standard.
Those weapons are not Axl's own, but are acquired as a matter of game progression.  To pit them against X, you must therefore pit them against X's equivalent to such progress, the Variable Weapon System.  Incidentally that supplied him with a flamethrower in his very first appearance.

1607

Gaming / Re: VC / WiiWare / DSiWare / XBLA / PSN (Collection & Updates!)

« on: November 26, 2010, 04:45:14 PM »

Might want to save some of those points for MegaMan Universe.  Looks to be awesome so long as they nail down the "inching" issue (and even if they don't, it's less of an annoyance than the Wiimote's B-trigger on MM10).  Otherwise, I'm not really familiar with the XBLA library...

1608

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 26, 2010, 04:28:11 PM »

Bass needs attachments to fly.

It's an attachment which he's had since the birth of the character.  How often do you see Bass without Treble?  That is every bit as valid as any non-standard weapon used by Axl.

Wasn't counting Zero into the mix, as this was mostly just a relevance between the shooting characters. Why?

Because of common sense. RPG common sense that is. Zero is the melee character obviously, Duo could be considered a tank/monk type. Cinnamon is the OBVIOUS healer.

I only compared Zero to Axl for the sake of noting that Axl has no exclusive rights to the use of varying weapons.

But if you must, forget Zero, because X did it in Command Mission.  Between the Gatling Buster and the X-Collider, the game showed a lot of potential for varying arm attachments to mix up his attacks.  And isn't it "RPG common sense" that all characters should have varying equipment in the first place?  You're attacking your own point with that.

You see what I'm getting at here? X takes up the obvious Megaman position. Having Bass or Protoman is POINTLESS because that spot is already taken. Axl however, has non-attachment based attributes and readily used factors that make it obvious that he could fit in a variety of other roles, unlike the lack of versatility that is the other two candidates. It really is an irrefutable point when you don't bring in unrelated material into the discussion.

Varying weapons is easily refutable to anyone familiar with Command Mission, and I said all I had to on the Copy Chip in my last post.  Whether or not it's viable as a gameplay addition really depends on what direction they're going with the current hunters' copy abilities.

I would also stand by Zan's previous post of a visual difference going a long way.  Seriously, in a multiplayer game is it really necessary that all our buster players HAVE to look like X?

Such as Zero's weapon use. That just goes under how Zero has multiple melee weapons... which a melee fighter would need. To do melee fighting.

Irrelevant.  Melee combat in and of itself by no means constitutes a more valid reason for alternate weapons than distance combat.

Axl however could use different kinds of guns, be more of a long range fighter strictly. Or who knows, like stated, something involving the Copy Chip, with the guns as an obvious main weapon. That is my point.

Barring the Copy Chip, which is questionable under the game's premise, I have to agree that there's nothing there that X couldn't do.  Not that I don't want to see Axl in there, I do.  But I do not see how "clone logic" can be used to favor him over Bass.  The fact is, in gameplay, Axl is the X-series Bass.  If you're going to argue "possibilities", then you need to offer that same leeway to all characters on the table.  To do otherwise is simply playing favorites.

1609

Original / Re: If you had to describe each classic Mega Man with one word or phrase...

« on: November 26, 2010, 04:51:58 AM »

1: Devilish fortress bosses.
2: Overappreciated.
3: Underappreciated.
4: What do you know, we DID see the name Rock.
5: Double fortress: Evil, but never sexier.
6: I'M NOT WILY!
7: Oh, you SUCK, Burst Man...
8: Last time we'll see the shadow of broken Rush Jet.
MM&B: We love Rush, but if he can do NOTHING but Search, we need to put him down.
PU: Big-headed folks can't jump.
9: There's nostalgic, and there's just giving 2 a blowjob.
10: Was nostalgic (...if only it wasn't for that damn B-trigger).

1610

Gaming / Re: VC / WiiWare / DSiWare / XBLA / PSN (Collection & Updates!)

« on: November 26, 2010, 04:19:37 AM »

Damn.  Wish I had that much money to spend on games.

That fixed shoulder button repair will last a month.... Thats how much mine did till they started being shitty again.

Oh I know, this is my second shoulder button repair.  But once the 3DS is out, I won't care anymore.

1611

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 26, 2010, 04:15:05 AM »

Axl flying is something that Bass has already done with Treble Boost.

Alternate weapons are far from exclusive to him; Zero's done the same in every title that he has.  X COULD do buster attachments as well ala Command Mission.  I will admit, though, I myself am quite fond of Axl's G-Launcher.  I'm just saying from an objective standpoint that I think Zan has a point.

Except for this:

...copy chip. The latter of which likely will not be balanced well because it quite overshadows other characters in versatility.

That depends wholly on how it's adapted for gameplay.  As a matter of perception, ZXA throws us off due to copying other MegaMen.  If you were to take that setup, reduce it only to animaloids, and throw it into the same roster as X-series style X and Zero (VWS/Learning System included), then I'd imagine more than a few players would consider a traditional weapon system superior to a roster of forms that, while granting high versatility as a whole, come off as extremely limited individually.

It all depends on how it's played.  There's any number of ways to limit the Copy Chip without going to the extreme gimmick junk that X7/X8 do, rendering it near worthless.  But I'd imagine the greater issue at hand is the sheer redundancy of Copy Chip Hunters copying a Copy Chip Hunter.  There's no point to copying Axl except for Axl's core abilities, unless the current tech is somehow less flexible than his (granted that is very well conceivable if the current hunters are locked to a single copy for life, which might go a ways as to explaining copied Navigators).

Honestly, for them to have gone the whole "copying legendary heroes" route, while planning this game as an MMO originally, I was expecting more player types than 4-7.  I mean, considering the abundance we've already had in single-player games like ZXA and PU...

1612

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 24, 2010, 02:15:17 AM »

I doubt it, seeings how we're thus far lacking Treble Boost Zero.  But you never know.

1613

News and Announcements / Re: Rockman Online artwork and details.

« on: November 24, 2010, 01:29:00 AM »

So...if Cinnamon's a player (YES), does that mean we have a Cinnamon-armor to look forward to?

http://protodudesrockmancorner.blogspot.com/2010/11/evdn-more-rockman-online-tidbits.html

Sorry, Hypershell.

A shock, to say the least.  Though, if they're "thinking" of adding more, that could still change.

1614

Gaming / Re: I loved ya...but things just ain't working out anymore.

« on: November 21, 2010, 10:44:59 PM »

I never sell my games.  I'm not willing to trust that I won't EVER want to revisit them, even if it's rare.

It's true that with longer, more cinematic games, sometimes once the surprise is gone you just don't want to let them dominate your life for another few weeks (guess that's why we like MegaMan).  All the same, I've found a few exceptions.  Twilight Princess is one that I don't mind replaying, since I positively love Midna.  Same for the Radiance/Dawn Fire Emblem games, since there are a ton of characters in those that I got attached to.

But then there are games like Mario Galaxy or Metroid Prime, that while positively epic, are just too damn long for what really should be a pick-up-and-play experience.  Sure, you'll want to revisit your favorite moments, and God willing either the game will allow that or you were wise with the save file copies (I can't tell you how many times I kick myself for saving AFTER I defeated Meta Ridley in my 100% file), but the thought of actually starting over from scratch is just a curse (why oh why can MP Trilogy not read previous version saves?).

1615

News and Announcements / Re: MegaMan Legends 3 is REAL, AND IT'S SPECTACULAR...LY IN 3-D

« on: November 21, 2010, 09:45:46 PM »

Boy, it sure didn't take them long to break the 1000 mark once the kinks were worked out.  Now I don't feel so bad being in the 600's.

1616

Zero / Re: Why didn't X show himself to the Guardians?

« on: November 21, 2010, 04:20:50 AM »

I recall the MMZOCW interview mentioning some regret as to Levi turning out such a Fefnir-like hot head.

It's true that Harpuia was spouting the same propaganda as everyone else in Z1.  However, I don't think he so much got knocked down, seeings how he replaced Copy X.  And I think, more than the ass-kicking, that's what did it (recall, in Z2, Harpuia actually loses his sense of reason when battling Zero).  With Harpuia at the top, he has to bear the responsibility.  He can no longer dismiss a slaughter of Reploids under Caesar-can-do-no-wrong, because he himself is calling the shots.

1617

Gaming / Re: The "What are you currently playing?" Thread

« on: November 21, 2010, 04:09:05 AM »

Cleared Shantae: Risky's Revenge.  Evidently they pulled a Metroid with the ending image(s), yet there's no gallery option.

1618

Gaming / Re: ITS MAHVEL 3 BAYBEE (The MvC3 topic)

« on: November 21, 2010, 04:07:44 AM »

I wish I still had the voice/sfx-less version of Beamsabre Beat ZERO that Darkesword rendered for me a long time ago. Damn those hard drive crashes.

Well, there's always V1.  Was still on his site last I checked (and if it isn't, I have it).  But yeah, the loss of effect-less V2 is unfortunate.

1619

Zero / Re: Why didn't X show himself to the Guardians?

« on: November 21, 2010, 04:02:01 AM »

They respect him after Copy X MKII has shown that he is willing to attack a human residential area, and after that dies as an obvious pawn of Weil.  There is no conflict of interest by that point as there would have been if X had appeared to them earlier.

1620

Zero / Re: Why didn't X show himself to the Guardians?

« on: November 21, 2010, 03:40:50 AM »

They were.  According to the Zero Collection timeline, X's soul kinda "shattered" when he sealed the Mother Elf, and a piece of which wound up in every Guardian...somehow...  I'm not really sure how that works.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet that X, while respectful of the Guardians, did not believe that they would turn on his copy.  Them being unfamiliar with the original makes this a bit more plausible; if one X tells them to kill another X, why listen to the ghost over the in-the-flesh guy?

There's also the fact that, based on the Z1 encounter, we can safely assume that Copy X outclasses them power-wise.

Zero was X's best hope.  Not only is he the only one reliably strong enough to get the job done, but he also follows his beliefs without hesitation even when it means getting his hands dirty.

Same applies to Neo Arcadian policy after Copy X was destroyed, however on that note, Harpuia showed some promise in trying to keep the peace.  The damage had already been done, policy discriminating against Reploids already in place, and the Resistance branded Mavericks, before Harpuia took command.  Despite that, he was extremely nonaggressive in dealing with the Resistance, his only offensive against them being retaliation for Elpizo's Righteous Strike.  He knew the Resistance's location throughout Z2 yet did nothing.  Hell, he did worse than nothing, he returned Zero to them.  He also left the Resistance go during Z3's intro.  Harpuia did not wish to destroy any more Reploids, but his allegiance was still to humanity.  Thus it is only when Weil and Copy X turn on humanity that Harpuia's faith in Neo Arcadia is shaken.

1621

Gaming / Re: The "What are you currently playing?" Thread

« on: November 20, 2010, 04:25:16 PM »

100% cleared Misadventures, raising all of my Servbots to maximum Brains (working on their Attack/Speed still) thus actually created a better clear file than the one I saved.  Man, I completely forgot how powerful the little guys are with 4 Bazookas and 2 Rapids.  That Colossus never had a chance. 

Next up is Legends 1 (stalling a bit for Shantae, though, now that my DSi is back).

1622

Gaming / Re: ITS MAHVEL 3 BAYBEE (The MvC3 topic)

« on: November 20, 2010, 04:19:56 PM »

...The more i listen the more it grows on me >_>;;; Damn you Capcom!

It does, doesn't it?  Kinda like the Sonic4 soundtrack.

Swap the instruments and I think we've got Zero's intro stage theme for Xtreme3.

1623

News and Announcements / Re: MegaMan Legends 3 is REAL, AND IT'S SPECTACULAR...LY IN 3-D

« on: November 20, 2010, 04:08:51 PM »

Dunno.  I reported in and so did 667.  It's possible that they skipped 666.  That, or whoever it is didn't want the attention of ending the world.  *shrugs*

1624

Gaming / Re: ITS MAHVEL 3 BAYBEE (The MvC3 topic)

« on: November 20, 2010, 05:51:55 AM »

Why has this not been ripped yet?
http://www.capcom.co.jp/mvsc3/ch_zero.html

And anyways, overall aside from the 1st 20 seconds or so it sucks. It's not as god tier as the actual SNES version that had the sense of ROCK in it.

Well, it's no

Beamsabre Beat

, but it could have been worse.  At least unlike MHX's Zero theme, the MvC3 theme does eventually loop back to the SNES-inspired greatness.

Also, all the MvC3 rips you need, right here.  Thank God for Google.

Except that's X's X4 theme. >.>

Who in the HELL confuses X's and Zero's themes in X4?

1625

Off The Wall / Re: Birthday Thread~

« on: November 20, 2010, 05:41:40 AM »

A belated Happy Birthday to Vix!  Sorry for lateness, but yesterday was busy.

And many thanks, PB, for remembering the "other" person celebrating.