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Messages - Hypershell

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1376
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 19, 2011, 04:11:11 AM »
Indeed, HOWEVER, the actual ability of the one using them against you is of bigger importance. THAT was my point. Simply saying that a character is or isn't broken because you don't have trouble with it is about as valid as saying "because I say so", it needs more backing up than that. Who are the people using him and how good are they? What exactly are his flaws? That kind of stuff.
You're one to talk about "backing up", that entire post was based on one gigantic assumption.  You're under the presupposition that I am referring to one or two people who like myself happen to not mesh with a god-tier character as a matter of personal preference.  I'm not.

I'm referring to three years of cumulative online experience, friend and random, free-for-all and team, the whole works.  I, as well as most any other seasoned Brawl player, am well aware that Meta Knight has dominated the Brawl tier list pretty much since it's conception.  That's not news, not to me, not to anyone else who gives a damn and knows how to work Google.  You, and you alone, are insisting that Meta Knight's "god tier" tournament status of a single metagame applies proportionately to all possible metagames which Brawl entails.  That's a very naive bit of speculation.  Every post you make is a collection of "would" or "wouldn't"s demanding detailed explanations and examples while failing to provide any of your own.  Next time, drop the assumptions, and pick up some of the burden of proof for yourself.  If you're going to tell somebody that everything they know is wrong, you're going to have to do your own work sooner or later.

1377
Gaming / Re: Wii 2: Nintendo begins the E3 Hype
« on: April 19, 2011, 03:27:35 AM »
Do you own a Wii?

If yes, then shut up.

If not, then carry on.
The Wii uses motion to supplement, rather than replace, the use of physical buttons.  I get what Objection is saying, and I share similar ergonomic preferences, but I don't think he has anything to worry about either.  I can't imagine Nintendo would throw an all-touch controller at us.  As PB said, all reports, not to mention simple logic, point to an addition rather than a replacement.

1378
Gaming / Re: Sonic Generations (360, PS3) - Holiday 2011
« on: April 19, 2011, 03:22:43 AM »
I have to admit, that trailer looks gorgeous beyond all sane reasoning.

It might be on the new system coming out.
That one's scheduled for late 2012 release, though, which means we'll probably be looking at a different Sonic title by then.

Hate to say it, seeings how I lack a 360/PS3, but realistically that's what I'd expect.

1379
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 16, 2011, 12:22:24 AM »
Your attempt to "clarify" was worded as speculation, so there's not much for me to say anyway.  But on where I lost you:

No offense Shelly but that's a really bad way to argue this. For example, I may as well say that I find it harder to deal with X middle tier character in MvC2 and that I even suck at using the god tiers, but does that change that they're horribly broken? No.
I was referring to this.  You merged two thoughts into the same sentence there.  My skill in using a broken character by no means indicates whether or not they are broken (that was not the point of my mentioning my ability with them, as further explained in "learning curve/personal affinity" discussions with Aqua).

My difficulty in overcoming said allegedly broken characters, however, is an entirely different story.  That is very much relevant in calling a character broken or not, because if the character does not produce a notably increased challenge over the others, it suggests that whatever advantage the character has is being balanced out somewhere along the line.  Meta Knight is small, nimble, and has a variety of recovery moves, all true.  He is a strong character, but 3 years of Brawling against humans hasn't left him so memorable as to leave him in a rank of his own in my eyes.  I have no doubt that he is a horribly broken character in the controlled environments of tournament play, but that's not what Super Smash Bros. Brawl is about.  The core issue here is that the tier list, being based on a niche play style, is not an absolute indicator of the game's balance as a whole.

1380
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 15, 2011, 11:58:25 PM »
Speaking more specifically of MK
1-Which he has
2-Which he doesn't
3-I'd say that depends more on luck than anything, one moment the item will spawn right next to you, the other it'll be all the way across the stage =/
4-It's irrelevant if MK grabs the Smash Ball since his oponents don't get to use their superior FS in that case, which I assume being him it shouldn't be that much of a problem.
I'd say you're grossly overestimating MK's mobility.  The fastest attackers aren't always the fastest travelers.  Meta Knight is the 5th-worst air traveler in the game (when not gliding, which demands a wind-up time and is difficult to control).  That's a bit of a crutch to overcome when scrambling for a Smash Ball, but it means jack [parasitic bomb] with no items in Battlefield.

And for the record I seriously disagree with your earlier notion that difficulty in combat doesn't reflect the brokenness of the character.  How does that make any sense?  A character is deemed "broken" because they have a significant and disproportionate advantage compared to other characters.  Every sense of logic says that should be reflected in the difficulty of overcoming such a character.  If they present no significantly greater challenge to defeat, they are not broken.  Meta Knight is broken in the tournament metagame, not in all of Brawl.

Edit: Totally random, but Diddy is top 3 now? Wat?
Yeah, it's been a while since I checked.  Didn't see that one coming either.  Dedede WAS a pretty high-ranked character in earlier years, IIRC.

1381
Gaming / Re: The "What are you currently playing?" Thread
« on: April 15, 2011, 12:08:16 AM »
Nobody laughs when I use Palkia. :P

And hey, in single player, you can (or at least SHOULD BE ABLE TO, damn Nintendo's over-restrictive post-E4 battles) use whoever the hell you want.

1382
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 14, 2011, 11:43:03 PM »
I believe I already tackled two points on that issue.
1. Traveling speed is more important.
2. Large character size is more of a liability.

Third, though I don't think this needs to be stated, is that all characters have mostly equal access and effectiveness with them (some exceptions with clobbering items).

Fourth, Meta Knight and Dedede don't really have the best Final Smashes.  MK's is one of those high-precision moves, by all means good, but there are better, and it's easily wasted.  Dedede's is comparable to Pit's.

The "Standard God Tier" characters are still strong characters, their strengths in a particular niche still exist in the rest of the game.  They're just not as overwhelming when there are more variables at work, and Smash is a game which was built to be played with a great many variables in place, merely allowing their removal as an option.

Also, on environments, I'm aware that Brawl's tournament style allows for some more stage flexability than Melee's did, but there's still a large variety of environments that don't get safely tucked behind a "banned curtain" in general play.  Also, much of the stage selection of Brawl's tournament play is a result of Brawl's unimaginative level selection and over-use of large flat aeras (Smashville, Yoshi's Island Brawl, etc.).  There are a few more varied levels that are considered permissible, but for every Pokemon Stadium Melee that's allowed, there's plenty more banned Green Hill Zones where it came from.  It's a wider niche than the Melee tournaments of yester-year, but still a niche, and one which the gaming populace as a whole is in no way bound by.

1383
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 14, 2011, 11:31:54 PM »
Brawl's old enough that most of us are a bit rusty by now, I think.

Tier lists are for the way the game is played anyways. The usual tier list for Smash is for the whole "no items and stages banned" way of playing
That, sir, was my whole point.

1384
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 14, 2011, 11:03:02 PM »
Well, honestly, I just don't see how having items on would make them any less broken than they are.
Sonic, Yoshi, and Jigglypuff need a word with you.  High ground or air speed can be a tremendous boon depending on which items are active.  It's also a whole new batch of strategy and evasion to contend with when you're on the wrong side of an item battle.

It's not just items, either.  It's also terrain, it's also stage hazards, it's also free-for-alls over one-on-ones, it could be team battles, and occasionally it's even the 2.0 damage ratio.  These are all things that the tier list ignores, and which otherwise play a large part to your average Smash gamer, and they can RADICALLY alter the game's balance.

Bowser, for example, has a "Win Button" in 2.0 Damage, that being his Flying Slam, which will guarantee a KO in all but the largest stages (being a grab attack, it's also unblockable).  He generally blows otherwise.  Larger characters in general (Snake and Dedede) also have a harder time in 3-or-4-players matchups due to being easier targets, doubly so when somebody's aiming a throwing item at you.

Yoshi is great around slopes, seeings how his eggs, roll, and drop moves allow him to easily attack at odd angles.  He's also good for maneuvering around platforms thanks to his high air speed.  And the flinch-resistance of his second jump helps him to escape hectic areas.

Also, going into Final Smashes, the Landmaster's effectiveness varies GREATLY depending on terrain.  In Final Destination, Battlefield, and the like, it's pretty much guaranteed KOs.  In Yoshi's Island Melee, or Spear Pillar, it can easily be laughable.

As far as Final Smashes go, the same rule of distribution applies.  I mean, you've got great ones like Sonic/Space Animals that can net plenty of KOs, but as a Mario/Kirby user you feel gypped.  With Mario's it ends up being a very straightforward move that everyone can react to and evade on release, and with Kirby's you can literally spot-dodge at the right moment and avoid damage altogether.
Super Sonic I see as compensating for Sonic's generally low power otherwise; there's a reason not every character has it.  It's also one of those moves that the user has to know what they're doing; sensitive controls makes for easy spot-dodging if you don't think to attempt hovering.  Most other Final Smashes are devastating but avoidable if you're good enough.  I've already used the Yoshi Bomb to dodge Marth's Critical Hit, and damn that felt good. 8)  They are SUPPOSED to be overwhelming, but they're usually (not always) not outright impossible.  ROB's pisses me off, though.

There are some that really feel underpowered, and I agree that Mario is one of them.  Bowser, which I often rant about, is another, and Pit's leaves him pretty open as well.  Seems like the early characters got jiped and the more off-the-wall late additions got the crazy power.

Mewtwo wasn't even close to anyone else in the game in terms of execution, and he still got axed anyway.  How Lucario's supposed to be a replacement is beyond me.
They're loner semi-humanoid Pokemon, they have chargeable projectiles, a similar forward smash, and command some glowy supernatural power.  They're pretty much it.  The general "fighting style" of Mewtwo is NOTHING like Lucario's.  If anything I think Zelda is closer to Mewtwo in terms of play style, but there truly is no substitute for him.

Quote
Keeping it on topic, I did like how despite the crude advantage the higher-ups had in Melee, bottom tier guys could still compete.  L-Cancelling made Bowser's aerials far safer and kept you from getting whipped too badly, though his weight made him easy combo-fodder.  Kirby had his trademark Kirbycides which allowed him to net surprise KOs (at the expense of his own life), and pretty much anyone was useable.  I actually don't like Melee's high-execution requirement in higher levels of play, though.  L-Cancelling should be automatic (be honest, is there ever any reason to not do it?), and while stuff like Wavedashing is cool, doing it all the time as a means of travel seems pretty cumbersome.  I play Street Fighter competitively, and TBPH Melee seems far harder in terms of execution at a high level.
Wave-dashing was an accident, like the Minus World of NES days.  Agreed on L-Canceling; there's no point in having a manual switch to recover from your own moves.  If it's depending on when somebody hits you (catching yourself on the ground after you're sent flying), then that's a whole other story.

Damn you!  O:<
I missed you, too, 'maru. 8)

1385
Gaming / Re: Wii 2: Nintendo begins the E3 Hype
« on: April 14, 2011, 10:35:57 PM »
Who doesn't love trains? 8)
(for that matter, who doesn't love Twilight Princess and Excite Truck as launch titles?)

HD for quite some time has been a matter of when rather than if with Nintendo.  Miyamoto himself said around NSMBWii's release that he wants to see Mario in HD.  It's just a matter of when Nintendo is convinced that it's cheap and mainstream enough to not be punishing those who aren't yet on board.
EDITS: Incidentally, I'd be hard-pressed to say they were wrong.  Microsoft and Sony were just a bit premature, which left them with some console production cost woes.  Sony, especially (Microsoft swims in money thanks to Windows).  Nintendo being a game-exclusive company, that's not a misstep that they could afford to make.  The flipside, of course, is that in the long-run Nintendo is under the most pressure to release new hardware.

And hopefully Nintendo will be paying close attention to the 3DS network structure - what works and what still needs tweaking - when they're ironing out their new system.  It's already trouncing Wii in terms of response time when managing friends, and I know they're getting ready to kick their previous shop system in the behind.  But there's still the typical Nintendo lack of communication.  What good does it do to see what game a friend is playing, if you still can't tell whether they're actually looking for an online match without starting up the game on your end?  Some kind of messenger is needed there.

1386
Excellent work, Rolla! You'll make sergeant for this!

And yeah, that's my favorite version!
Hell yeah, PB. 8)
Only other thing I'd change about Rolla's B (THANK YOU) is the shoulders; have a single "circle" pointing outward as in L2, rather than front/back parallels as in L1.  Then it'd be perfect.  Again, I just see no point in jumping back and forth between L2 and L1 elements. 

I'm actually not fond of the hands in C.  Again, simple/fleshy hands feels like we're stepping back to Classic/X, losing the "Legends" feel of the design.  If Trigger made a cameo Command Mission appearance, then Design C would be perfect, but I just don't feel that it fits Legends.

1387
News and Announcements / Re: Mega Man Legends 3 Devroom update
« on: April 14, 2011, 10:08:43 PM »
A bit late, seeings how this has been discussed in the "Legends 3 is real" thread already, but it's nice to see RPM following the DevRoom updates again.

1388
Gaming / Re: The "What are you currently playing?" Thread
« on: April 13, 2011, 03:33:50 AM »
Two days ago, Monster Hunter Tri finally broke me.  Got waaay too tired of camping for the same damn three swords (Rusted, Worn, and Alatreon Star), and getting absolutely nowhere (11 shard weapons, 6 of which are Greatswords, none were Sword And Shield; also 5 Azure Dragongems and 2 Webbing, nice), so I sharked the game for them.  I'll return to playing nice afterwards.

Yesterday, I picked up 3D Rabbids and their time traveling washing machine.  It's a lot of fun, though a bit repetitive.  I think 15 stages to a world is pushing it.  Still, they're just as zany and lovable as ever.  Nice to see Ubi using 3D cutscenes, something Capcom skipped with SSF4.

1389
Gaming / Re: New Sonic Game Announced
« on: April 13, 2011, 03:24:51 AM »
Can't argue with that.

Yes but it's pretty much the comic anyways.
And I meant the modern one.
Eh, I could go into a number of reasons why, despite the inspirations, the two aren't quite synonymous.  But I'll leave that one go; I don't think anyone here actually cares.

And Sonic X?  Yeah, I'm sure somebody likes that too.

1390
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 13, 2011, 03:14:40 AM »
Sounds like fun.

You know, I wouldn't underestimate the value of a good imbalance.  Who here HASN'T enjoyed a nice broken character, weapon, or feature?  I mean, if Godzilla Unleashed were balanced, we wouldn't have Biollante in there, and she's just the most badass giant plant/reptile hybrid ever.

...I know, I know, nobody besides me cares about that game.  But to a freakishly nerdy kaiju fan, having a giant mass of razor-toothed tentacles as a playable character is a big deal.

No offense Shelly but that's a really bad way to argue this. For example, I may as well say that I find it harder to deal with X middle tier character in MvC2 and that I even suck at using the god tiers, but does that change that they're horribly broken? No.
And at what point did I say that my experience was the standard for all players?  None.  The subjective nature was kind of my point.  If you re-read my post, I did not say that such characters are not broken; I said that they are only broken in a very specific format which, contrary to popular belief, does not directly carry over to the game as a whole.  "Balance", on the other hand, DOES apply to the game as a whole, and therein lies the problem of presuming that the tier list alone indicates a lack of balance.  I'm not going to tell you that Brawl's roster is balanced, it isn't.  The tier list just isn't the reason why.

Just because a character's top tier in a fighter doesn't mean that they're easy to pick up.
Remember who you're talking to:  Mr.-still-not-over-the-exclusion-of-Mewtwo-who-had-one-of-the-highest-learning-curves-of-Melee?  I am in NO WAY referring to how easy they are to pick up.  I'm referring to how I, personally, handle them after having given the entire game's roster a fair shake through the varying modes and challenges.  All I said was that there is such a thing as player affinity, that is how a character best matches one's personal play style, not that any such thing invalidates every other character comparison which the gaming community has established.  Please refrain from putting words in my mouth.

I love final smashes, the idea of Nintendo characters having supers pleases me *runs away*.
I'll hide you.  I never get enough of SUPER DRAGON POWER, after all. 8)

1391
To me, Design C looks like it's bleeding Classic/X elements together, with the hands and waist.  I mean, you could throw that design into Command Mission, no problem, and it wouldn't look the least bit out of place.  It loses the "Legends" feel. 

I went with A.  I like consistency, and I like seeing classic designs brought to life in the hands of both more detailed artists and more powerful hardware, no need to reinvent the wheel.  But I must admit, B is pretty darn awesome.  I just wish, color-wise, they'd left the thighs/upper-arms gray.  Again, that was a fairly unique touch to Trigger's design among the many "Mega Men" we know; no sense in going backwards.

1392
Gaming / Re: New Sonic Game Announced
« on: April 11, 2011, 04:15:13 AM »
Am I the only one who actually, for the most part, likes the Adventure-era Sonic better?  Granted, I think his quills are way too long and look goofy as a result, but...

I just think the classic Sonic looks kinda goofy in a 3D model.  And I am honestly not sure which "classic Sonic" look they're going for.  There's Sonic 1/2, and then there's Sonic 3/K, which had a far superior art style and made Sonic look (dare I say) cooler without actually changing the design any.
You're not in the least alone.  I like modern Sonic just fine.  To me, though, Sonic is Sonic.  This isn't like, say, putting Sensei Zero next to Nakayama Zero.  More like Sensei Zero next to Inafune Zero.  The differences, while certainly there, are just too miniscule for me to really care.

maybe there's even T.V. show fans out there.
There's no "maybe" about that one.  The old SatAM cartoon has a pretty respectable following, seeings how it was quite possibly the greatest cartoon-based-on-a-game ever.  A sizeable chunk of the comic fans look to it as all we have left of those characters.  List includes Sally (who STILL trumps Amy in the popular demand department), Rotor, Bunnie, Antoine, Uncle Chuck, Dulcy (unfortunately shafted...), Lupe, Snivley, and Naugus.

1393
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 11, 2011, 03:59:50 AM »
...matchups are closer so you don't have to kill yourself trying to beat MK/Snake/Dedede/etc.  Kind of wish Nintendo would take notes.  :\
You know, I *NEVER* was in such a position, and this is why when people talk of "balancing" Brawl, I have a hard time listening to them.  Not only do I find none of those three characters particularly overwhelming, but I myself *ROYALLY* suck as MK and Dedede.  In general my toughest opponents in Brawl are Toon Link and ROB.

"God Tier" in Brawl only exists to people who try to standardize the environment (no items, no hazards, as plain terrain as possible; I've seen engines of destruction on Final Destination get completely ripped apart in Yoshi's Island Melee because they can't fight on a frikkin slope).  IMHO that is not the kind of game that Brawl SHOULD be; but whether you agree with that or not, at the very least one has to admit that the game encompasses much more.  The performance of the game's characters varies drastically based on what style you're playing. 

1394
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 10, 2011, 08:12:29 AM »
I actually understand why Zero is low on health in TvC.  He's a freaking engine of destruction, not to mention he near completely negates any advantage that small-size characters like Roll and Joe are looking for.  Can't speak for MvC.

That's the other problem with balance: There really is such a thing as player affinity.  It's not JUST personal preference, sometimes a particular character is just a better fit for someone's style.

The personal most hurt I ever was by an "underpowered" character, would be Bowser in SSB Brawl.  Flying Slam is great, but beyond that he feels woefully underpowered compared to new heavyweights like Ike, Dedede, and Snake.  Damn near every aerial move he has is punished with tremendous lag, and his Final Smash is laughable.  Mario can flip it with his cape, for God's sake.

1395
Gaming / Re: Is possible to achieve Balance in fighting games?
« on: April 10, 2011, 07:45:48 AM »
Of course it is:  No Items, Fox Only, Final Destination.

Variance (read: fun) by its nature disrupts balance, especially so because as the game gets more complex, game developers can't possibly predict every strategy that's going to come around.  Even the strictest of traditional fighters run into that as the roster grows.

Ideally I prefer to not see anyone weakened.  Sometimes, though, and this isn't even exclusive to the fighting genre, but characters come along who simply need a buff.  Nobody knows why they were made such weenies in the first place, but they just were.

1396
And that, my friends, answers the question: "Why do we hack our consoles?"
 -AC ;^; ;O;

1397
I come into this thread expecting at least some real trolling...
...am I the only one here who thought, before reading the thread, that "trolling" in the title was a joke referring to how people go bat crap crazy when somebody expresses their honest non-fangasming opinion about popular games?

No?  Alright, carry on.

Also, I should bring up that original Zero looks ass stupid because of huge cat eyes, huge feet, and glass tits.
Looks a hell of a lot better than puppy eyes in a thong waving a pistol around, if you ask me.  Plus I kinda resent the fact that new non-evil Zeros forgot all manners of Earth Crush and double charging, and are severely handicapped in the Learning System department.

But hey, at least we got Z3's Throw Blade.

1398
Original / Re: MegaMan Universe Canceled!
« on: April 09, 2011, 04:51:20 PM »
Neither do playable demos, which MMU obtained long before and L3 has barely reached.

Nevertheless, my thoughts kinda mirror PB's.  Legends 3 is my concern.  And hell, I know I'm not alone in being more excited about that Korean PC game than Universe.  I played MMU at NY ComicCon, was fun, but realistically the only way I'd play the release version is by hogging my brother's TV during visits.

I could talk about the art style, which I don't care about THAT much, or the controls, which one expects to be touched up before release.  But really?  I think my indifference comes from this game being so heavily based around 2.  I got enough of that in 9, and I'm really getting tired of Classic-series games that do not allow you to slide.

That said, it's always sad to see a MegaMan game get cancelled, and Universe really surprised me at that, since it did seem to have come pretty far along.  At the very least they had well surpassed Power Up in the "Classic reimagining" department.  Feels like a waste to me.

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Thread's all updated and such.

Funny, Red, you're my first Pokemon B/W register.  Probably has something to do with the fact that I'm still barely past the first Gym Leader.  >.>  What can I say, too many games fighting for my time.

1400
Gaming / Re: The "What are you currently playing?" Thread
« on: April 09, 2011, 04:33:29 AM »
Monster Hunter Tri, as usual.  Out of Scatterfish, out of Honey, and cursing whoever's sick idea it was to make the parts to the ultimate Sword and Shield something near inaccessible to non-Bowgun users (damn Alatreon Webbing...).

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