Messages

1126

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 17, 2011, 01:29:29 AM »

Was X5's story all just Inafune's work, though...?

Word of god here, via MMXOCW:

"I had very little to do with 'X5.' I just told the team to 'finish off the series with this title,' and left it at that. That's why the game itself has a real feel of finality to it." (Inafune)

A single word being exchanged for one that sounds similar is an understandable typo, and not comparable to an insane line being spoken and accepted without question. And while the entire translation is bad, it's more in the sense of being hard to understand than being factually incorrect.

I believe I have already established that statement as never being proven factually wrong.  What is wrong is the circumstances, which are assumed by the fans, not stated by the game.  X didn't ask Zero how he survived, he asked Zero where he's been.  Two different questions.  Zero's answer is not factually wrong, it is in need of clarification.  Two different problems.

I don't know what you're used to, but when I think translation errors I think typos and awkward grammar, not changing the story. It's happened, but it's uncommon.

There are several "factually wrong" translation errors from X5 alone.  A few more in the games that followed, especially if you count the manuals.

Often times a "typo" may appear coherent and yet change the meaning entirely.  Case in point: Zero1, "Z-Buster"

Though I was surprised to find out people thought Sigma's slurred speech was an error, considering how blatant it was. Sometimes it's just not possible to lay it on thick enough...

Very true.

I don't think people would have minded about Zero coming back again if they had just seen an explanation other than "I hid to repair myself".

When the explanation of how he died is, "the same boss explosion we see over a dozen times per game, while only X is on-screen"?  I don't know about you, but I wasn't expecting much after that.

1127

Gaming / Re: (Rumor) Complete list of free NES and GBA games on 3DS

« on: August 14, 2011, 05:01:52 PM »

Dunno.  But as far as the NES games go, Ambassadors are getting early builds of the emulator and will be able to re-download the public versions for free when they're available for the rest of the world to pay for.  I would think that status should be preserved whether you download early versions or not.  GBA games are a different story.

And it looks like some GBA games will be sold on the eshop after all. (if it's true, but an announcement a while ago said they won't be public... hm)

I've always taken that announcement with a grain of salt.  I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that Nintendo would leave Yoshi's Island unavailable to the public.  Now maybe, just maybe, they intend to publicly release the SNES version and leave the GBA version exclusive to us.  But, I find it more likely that "no plans" for a public release means nothing more than "we haven't set a release date yet".

1128

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 14, 2011, 04:50:56 PM »

In that case you're presenting the conversation out of context.  If the entire game's localization is shoddy, which it clearly is, then common sense (not so common, I know) dictates that face-value is unreliable.  And face-value is the only way you get "Zero lied and X is a moron".  It's also the same way that one establishes that Erasure was centered around a reploid bathroom.

If you want to know why that passage is ridiculed, I'll tell you: Because people see what they want to.  It is the inverse of "Zello", which is to say people assume poor translations where it suits them (Sigma actually was suffering slurred speech), and deny them in the same manner (Zero and X are in the same boat in terms of their surviving X5).  It's not the passage that is being ridiculed, if it was then translation errors would be the first thought to pop up.  What's being ridiculed is the concept of Zero surviving.  X5 showed us both X and Zero as good as dead.  X5 showed us X's creator saving him.  X5 told us Zero's creator was "out there" somewhere.  And X5 told us that three years later (retconned), Zero is still out of the picture.

What happened was that the audience bought into Inafune's negligence sense of finality, and assumed that Wily was content to leave Zero in a scrap heap for a century.  Well, the notion that he wasn't shouldn't be all that surprising, so I'm sure Capcom felt justified in their search for more money.

Then there is to add to that the fans who thought that X should be carrying the series solo. *clears throat* Sorry.

1129

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 14, 2011, 06:10:11 AM »

True enough. But finding the Light capsule as Zero takes more know-how than finding Zero. And if you found the capsule as X at any point, you cannot see that conversation unless you play the game again. Even then, that doesn't guarantee you'll see it.

Literally every X game in existence requires, to some degree, multiple playthroughs if you want to view all dialogue.  The immediate predecessor, X5, took that to a greater extent than ever before, in addition to well establishing Zero and Light having some interesting conversations.  It shouldn't be any far stretch that those interested in what happened to Zero in X6 might actually want to play as him (nevermind the benefits of the awesomely broken Z-Buster).

If we go with your alternate interpretation instead of the common "lie" one, I feel that the meaning is too subtle and rephrasing is needed.

X6 localize...not amazing...

Remember what game we're talking about; the whole damn thing needs rephrasing.  And besides, didn't Zan already tackle the phrasing of that particular conversation last page?

1130

Gaming / Re: 3DS Pricedrop. Early Adopters gets free NES+GBA VC games

« on: August 14, 2011, 05:50:42 AM »

I have a confession to make: I never played Minish Cap.  If that list is true, that'll certainly keep me busy for a while.

Some little gremlin in the back of my head is still telling me that Nintendo won't be releasing main-series Pokemon games on Virtual Console, though.  At least, not unless there is a transfer solution with the current-gen games.  Otherwise, what's the point?

1131

Gaming / Re: RPM's Nintendo Wi-Fi lists (now with 3DS)

« on: August 13, 2011, 02:57:07 PM »

Added to the list, and I regged ya on my 3DS.

1132

Original / Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?

« on: August 13, 2011, 02:39:31 PM »

9 was a major let down, in my opinion. Let's get that out there. Opinion. Got it? Okay.

That said, it completely infuriated me. It ignores the evolution of Mega Man to pander to a vocal minority. If I wanna play Mega Man 2, I'll play Mega Man 2, not a bad knock off. Stage design was also shoddy and it felt more often than not that the challenge came not from actual difficulty, but how many things they could throw at you at once. And spikes. Spikes [tornado fang]ing everywhere, to a ridiculous degree.

Overall agreed.  9 spends way too much time (and too many jingles) pretending it's 2, has entirely too many blindsided deaths (those helicopter claws do not belong anywhere near spikes), and those stupid potted plant missiles that laugh at your inability to gain any additional speed over your basic walk.  Plus the game is over-dependent on Auto's shop, as there are virtually no pickup items.

I have to say, after all of that, 10 surprised me.  I was expecting more of the same, but they clearly took the level design (and the sound) up a notch.  And even though Rock still can't slide (boo), the MMK weapons give him something unique to the others.  10 isn't perfect, but it's an infinitely better game than 9.

I dont see why I would care if they played the same at all. The novelty is in the character you are playing as, not the way they play.

This, this, this, and this.  Ruling out the cancellation of Legends 3 for a moment, quite possibly the next most infuriating thing that I can hear from a game developer is "we know players wanted such-and-such a character, but we didn't include them because we couldn't make them different enough".  To someone who killed Mario off when he couldn't find a second person to play SMB3/SMW, that is the entirely wrong thing to say.

I'm also inclined to agree with giving ProtoMan the whole PU charged shot (but no boss-flinching, that's overkill)/MM7 shield approach.  It would make him strong enough to justify his lack of defense.  Another shield idea might be to not have it activate automatically at all.  He could guard when you press down on the D-Pad.  Could even give him a shield-dash instead of a slide, like in Power Fighters.

1133

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 13, 2011, 02:14:24 AM »

I'm taking care to note this as something that mostly concerns players who don't think a step beyond the surface (which is embarrassingly frequently the case for me, myself) - as the problem isn't in what actually happens, but what the player sees.
The player doesn't actually see Light repair X, it's just more-than-strongly implied. But s/he WILL see Zero claim to have repaired himself, which is at best improbable (he was a torso and an arm), at worst impossible (he was dead.).

The player also sees Zero ask Light if he knows who repaired him.

Is that dialogue optional, and possible to miss?  Certainly.  But so is X and Zero's reunion in and of itself.  For that matter, so is Light repairing X in X5 (play as Zero, and X is believed to be dead), which is not referenced in X6 outside of the above-mentioned conversation between Light and Zero.

Incidentally, the one who repaired Zero is also implied, though never stated, within X6.

1134

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 12, 2011, 11:25:11 PM »

A hologram being projected isn't all that surprising

It is when there's nothing to project from.  For five games straight the hologram has appeared only within capsules, never free-roaming.

and the physical actions happen off-screen

Double-standard.  You just named the exact problem everyone has with Zero's revival.

Which is even more preposterous when you think about the fact that X's "creator/avatar thereof" lacks any physical limbs to do salvage and repair work, while Zero's "creator/avatar thereof" freely interacts with the real world.

i always took it as Zero just lying to not make X worry over mysterious revivals.

And X being sappy enough to buy it. Somehow.

I'm sure Zero still required a few touch-ups after he woke up (why else wouldn't he have surfaced beforehand?).  He's not lying, it's just that he himself only knows part of the story, so that's all he can tell.  He's not saying "this is how I survived", he's saying "this is what I was doing after I had legs again".

It's not that X doesn't realize this, either, it's that he's in the same boat.  Neither X nor Zero knew for sure how they survived.  Zero took a shot in the dark and said that Light fixed them.  He was half right.

Seriously--I don't think ALL of the X series story's problems can be blamed on "mistranslations"

Of course not.  No translator is responsible for X5's ranking system completely contradicting the default ranks of X and Zero (you are literally punished for killing enemies and yet X gets shafted for disliking combat).

No translator is responsible for the complete absence of any explanation as to why Sigma is supposedly dead for good after his skull takes a Z-Buster to the face.

No translator is responsible for the fact that this "other person" who hates X did jack [parasitic bomb] about it for four games since.

No translator is responsible for the fact that X gets a few scuff marks from the same explosion that vaporized half of Zero's body, regardless of whether or not said explosion happens directly in front of X's face while Zero was in some nearby hallway.

No translator is responsible for defining "finality" as "kill the co-star and nobody will give a crap about the blue guy."

1135

Original / Re: No Charge Shot.....Why?

« on: August 12, 2011, 10:52:30 PM »

ProtoMan takes double knockback as well, making it easier for him to get shot off a cliff.

I personally have gotten very sick of Classic re-imaginings that don't let you slide.  Counting Universe, which I got to play at Comic-Con, it's been going on for four games straight now.  Enough.

1136

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 09, 2011, 01:52:40 AM »

It's certainly not the first instance, but it's still a flaw to leave it unexplained... and unlike those you mentioned, this one is fairly major since it's right at the surface where even casual players who don't stop and think more deeply about the game will spot it.

Zero Space is every bit as "at the surface", when you consider it's our only justification of why Light can operate outside of a capsule.

1137

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 08, 2011, 12:39:47 AM »

And because I've played as him up to that point in the game, so I've only seen things from his perspective.
My problem isn't believing that Zero was mysteriously missing and repaired by an unknown entity, it was that "So are you X. So are you." isn't enough on its own to make this clear.
Of course, if it replaces the "I hid while I repaired myself" thing we english-speakers got, that's a good step on its own...

We in the U.S. saw a reference to auto-repair way back in X1.  And we know Zero isn't the talkative type when it comes to mysterious scientists.  His conversations with Light show that he knows someone repaired him but doesn't know who that someone is.  He wasn't lying when he said that he's been hiding, either.

I'll admit there's a lot that can be read between the lines with that scenario, however background information being absent from the games is pretty par for the course with the X-series.  X6 didn't come CLOSE to starting that.

X2 - Heavy Sigma Virus involvement, particularly with Magna Centipede's stage.
X4 - Iris and Colonel.
X5 - Zero Space.

1138

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 06, 2011, 04:39:09 AM »

Phantom is a "mere soul" that drifted into Cyberspace.  He has no presence in the substance world unless you have e-Reader cards.  ...or if you're observing retconned artwork.

Posted on: August 05, 2011, 10:21:44 PM

I take it the same way Humans can die. either the body stops functioning, or the brain does. either means death, and for reploids, similar is true. If their bodies are destroyed, despite being able to be revived, they still are considered to have died. Zero for example- his body was destroyed, but his control chip survived intact. But he was still considered dead.

I suppose it depends on the situation, and the artificial lifeform in question.  Way I see it, if their body or mind dies, they are dead.

Naturally "death" of an artificial life refers to "non-functional", however when a person is "non-functional" temporarily, they are considered seriously ill or injured, not dead and revived.

"Death" refers to "permanently non-functional", and the ambiguity strikes when you consider that programs can be copied and machines can be rebuilt.  A human may reach a point where he/she has lost consciousness and will die if left untreated; for a robot drawing that line is a bit trickier.  Under what circumstances would you call a robot comatose rather than dead?  What about losing consciousness due to shock from serious injury?

That's about where X and Zero are in X5.  You could say they "escaped with their lives" in that their creators can repair them, or you could call them "dead" in that they're both inactive and damaged beyond the help of any "modern medicine".

1139

Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread

« on: August 06, 2011, 04:19:48 AM »

Daisy's my #1 character for the games she appears in.  Yoshi is 2nd, and Bowser 3rd.

Bowser's awesome, and I can see how he'd be the best for time trials, but for actual races with items running rampant, low acceleration can really screw you.

1140

Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread

« on: August 06, 2011, 03:00:56 AM »

Also Time Attack~

A Bowser girl, are ya?  Can't say I blame you.

I gotta say, I utterly despise the concept of a ranking system in Mario Kart (that is, the letter/star grade independent of your score).  MKWii just ruined it for me.  It takes a fair amount of sweat and blood to nab a perfect score in 150cc, and when the game STILL denies you even a one-star rank at that point, I feel one is perfectly justified in sharking infinite Star Men/Bullet Bills for some CPU abuse.

1141

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 06, 2011, 02:52:49 AM »

"Dead" can be a very vague term when it comes to artificial life forms.  You could utterly vaporize the body while its memory is backed up in external storage (Mega Man Juno), or the body could be completely intact while the brain collapses on itself due to an internal error (Iris).

1142

Gaming / Re: The Mario Kart Thread

« on: August 05, 2011, 10:52:26 PM »

So you kno which one it is?
So you know how awesomely large the series is.
As a huge joke to people who know MKSC was just a renamed port of SMK.

Actually the "port" part was unlockable.

1143

X / Re: Would Repliforce had worked out?

« on: August 05, 2011, 10:50:21 PM »

Web Spider was a Hunter, but I'm not sure he "defected" so much as "transferred".  Servbot20's collected sourcebook info claims that Web Spider was involved in multiple Repliforce campaigns before being assigned to defending the jungle weapon.  If that's the case, then he was with Repliforce well before the coup.

1144

X / Re: Why does everyone hate Mega Man X6?

« on: August 05, 2011, 10:42:01 PM »

Well yeah, but it'd be more easily understood if X's body had vanished as well. I mean, of course X is alive, that's not really unexpected at all.

You're only saying that because X's name is in the title.

X and Zero were in the exact same battle in X5.  The circumstances behind their damage were the same.  X is repaired by his creator.  Zero is seen by X before X is shot, yet Zero is not found after X is repaired.

So what do you THINK that means?

X6's opening shows that they both went up against Sigma and states that they "barely escaped with their lives".  If you are unfamiliar with the scenario beyond that then you are in no position to judge.  You can't gauge how plausible a given scenario is if you don't know the setup.  In fact, ignorance of X5 actually works in the player's favor, since only X5 when taken alone suggests the idea that Zero was dead rather than missing at all.  Even so, nobody bothers to take notice that in X5, X is only alive due to deus ex machina.

1145

News and Announcements / Re: Capcom Asking For Megaman Fans & Cosplayers to Leave SDCC..?

« on: August 05, 2011, 10:30:52 PM »

If you're getting an early look at a work-in-progress, that's one thing, but if they're just cutting snippits out of the retail release then there's no point.

Think back to that second disc that came with Misadventures.  Imagine if you found it packed separately in some used retailer.  I think most of us here would more likely pay money for DASH2 Episode 1 than do the same for the Legends 2 demo disc.

1146

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: August 03, 2011, 03:37:03 AM »

Reminder, folks:

The "Legends Never Die" snail-mail campaign is kicking off.  My fellow East Coast fans need to get their stuff out today or tomorrow, with the rest of the time zones to follow.

1147

Gaming / Re: The Senran KAGURA (Ninja Chick Brawler) Thread (3DS, Vita, etc)

« on: July 31, 2011, 03:51:36 PM »

Yeah I'm getting the first stealy thing that doesn't brick my 3DS so I can play this.

That is unfortunately more risky these days.  The 3DS will keep a log of your stolen boobs.

You know, if region-locking were truly born of any concern for the consumer, even the Ned-Flanders-squealing ones, it'd have long since have been replaced by a warning screen (not unlike the Virtual Console disclaimers).

1148

Gaming / Re: 3DS Pricedrop. Early Adopters gets free NES+GBA VC games

« on: July 30, 2011, 01:58:09 AM »

I'm sure most major retailers will be made aware of the promotion.  Such a drastic mark-down with such a specific "effective date", and all.

Of course, there are WiFi spots at McDonald's across Japan (and other locations), so worse case scenario, those in Japanese without internet might be forced to leave their houses for free games. Horrible, I know.

No word how Nintendo of America is handling internet-less 3DS owners.

IIRC both McDonalds and Best Buy have DS-compatible Wifi hotspots here.

1149

DASH / Re: It's dead, Jim.

« on: July 29, 2011, 03:27:46 AM »

IIRC, it wasn't terribly impressive in either region, but did do better here.

1150

Gaming / Re: 3DS Pricedrop. Early Adopters gets free NES+GBA VC games

« on: July 29, 2011, 12:55:40 AM »

I never got Mario Vs. Donkey Kong, and the small-name franchises are nice too.  So is any reason to carry less handhelds in my pockets.  And half the selection hasn't been revealed yet.

Plus, you really can't own Yoshi's Island in too many formats.

Nintendo confirmed for pussies and [Top Spin]s. Especially Reggie and how he was boasting after E3 about how they will not lower the 3DS price and that Vita was not a competitor.

As if Nintendo is the only console manufacturer to blow hot air.  That's a pretty common affair in the gaming industry.