Messages

1776

Fan Creations / Re: The Gonzo has art.

« on: October 10, 2009, 01:50:51 AM »

I'd like to see it when you do.

Larxene (Arlene?) and Elecman, drawn at Grandma's house. The only black pen that wasn't dying was a fine point, so I gave Larxene different clothes.

Trying out a red Micron pen. It looks alright, though my red felt pen is about the same shade. :/

Drawn on the first day the malware decided to mess with my computer.

Mega isn't used to girls who are so...top-heavy. >.>

*SoniaGrimm's characters, made for the RP she and I are writing. They're all robots built by a jaded lady; so far, only Pyra and Amp/Sony have had any prominence apart from the beginning.

L to R: Volt/Toby, Amp/Sony, Oceana/Emma, Pyra, and Ventus/Erica.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoldfishPoopGang Just in case know one knows what the term means.

These three are Kingdom Hearts OCs originating from a dream. In it, they brought Xion to Larxene and Roxas; the former wasted no time in mocking her and making light of her crush on a teacher (who had a rival, another teacher was also apparently a pirate and who didn't respect his wife). Which is about as far away from how Xion's actually introduced as one could get.

Anyhoo, Volcano, Burn, and Lava aren't truly associated with ORGXIII; their main purpose was to bring new Nobodies to them. Volcano is the boss, Burn takes care of any documentation that comes up, and Lava (whose original name was "Fire") does most of the physical work. None of them are aware of what ORGXIII really is, though Lava seems to have a better idea than the other two.

1777

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 10, 2009, 12:22:07 AM »

However, MMPU is a foregone conclusion, while ZX wasn't; not to mention, ZX's character choices work together, unlike MMPU's with the rest of the MM timeline. Megaman's scenario is the only one that doesn't violate the main series canon; Proto's is incredibly screwed up in relation to the rest of the series (and I imagine that's not the localization's fault), so it doesn't matter what the past was like.

The only way I can see Wily recognizing Proto after that remark is if he saw Proto's blueprints, and even then, they'd look different from the final robot and it'd only explain the Joes (if they weren't just coincidence).

1778

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 09, 2009, 11:54:41 PM »

Still, Proto's scenario sees Rock get captured along with most of Light's other robots, meaning that the regular events of MM1 couldn't happen in that path. So, those inconsistencies don't apply there.

1779

Fan Creations / Re: The Gonzo has art.

« on: October 09, 2009, 11:28:50 PM »

What I would've submitted earlier, had that malware not buggered everything.

Some of the Mushroom Kingdom powerups Mega likes, others he doesn't.

Oh dear. D:

Well, at least it's not Urotsuki with her chainsaw.

1780

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 09, 2009, 11:23:43 PM »

Wily was mocking him. They both recognize each other clearly.

I doubt that. "Who are you? I have no need for a robot that won't take orders" sounds more like Wily doesn't think that weird robot would take his orders rather than mockery, to me.

Besides, Proto's scenario in MMPU/RMRM is an AU (Rock was taken as well), so what does it matter?

1781

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 09, 2009, 05:59:08 PM »

I thought the only rewriting MMPU did was changing "Rock" to "Mega", and that felt more like a localization fumble than a deliberate retcon, to me.

I think Gauntlet has it right, here; the way you describe Wily does sound more like how you see him rather than how he actually is. Did the original games or sourcebooks ever say anything about Wily other than "he's a mad scientist who wants to take over the world, better stop him"?

And as faithful as you say RMRM is, there's one small problem with the ending: all of Light's robots (assuming you only used the Megabuster on them) are standing there waiting for you. Except that in other games, Light's robots are trying to kill you (like in the arcade games). Without the possibility of reprogramming or clones, what the hell went wrong there?

1782

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 09, 2009, 02:54:07 AM »

I don't see why Wily couldn't be actively trying to become first bannana while working with Light, or why he simply couldn't be out of town or something when Proto was activated and ran off.

And I don't mean to incur Zan's wrath with this statement, but thanks to the weeaboos, I hate the idea of separating canons by region in cases like this. Because, inevitably, the Japanese version will be the one hailed as the "true canon", and the other regions will be put down, simply because they aren't the Japanese version.

1783

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 08, 2009, 04:22:11 AM »

As for the RS cartoon, it's pretty messed up with Protoman.  Wily stole the kid-Protoman and then totally rebuilt him into an adult.  So how did Light make him at all?  There musta been a change in art, substituting the kid proto model for an adult one, because it doesn't make too much sence.

I figured that what Dr. Light and Dr. Wily meant by "built Protoman" were different things: Dr. Light constructed his CPU, which was transferred to the physical body that Dr. Wily built. Plus, Wily's quite prideful, so it's only natural that he'd treat a CPU transfer as "building" Protoman.

Oh, and most of "The Beginning" was a flashback--Mega's, if memory serves. He got a train dropped on him, and dreams are never that true to reality anyway, so for all we know, it could have gone differently. Or Dr. Light misremembered some things.


I'm with Gauntlet on the definition of "Wily was Light's assistant". Makes a lot more sense than the US MM1 manual.

1784

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 07, 2009, 05:57:13 PM »

When it comes to work derivative of the Japanese sources, we naturally see less contradictions of the above sort. But the times that differences are introduced in the details are naturally unavoidable.

Does its being Japanese make it inherently good? The OVA was tepid at best, having decided to devote most of its time to slow educational content. (I know it wasn't made for the Japanese market, but they're the ones that got it first)

Still, if you would compare for instance Ariga and Iwamoto. Ariga's the overall more faithful of the two.  This level of faithfulness is very much unprecedented in other work. He has truly captured the spirit and setting of Rockman.

So did Shigeto Ikehara, but no one cares about him, apparently. >.>

I should point out, Ariga came after RS-MM. RS-MM came about at a time when Megaman's story was sparse; I don't think even the original manuals said [tornado fang]-all about what was going on or what anyone was like beyond what little plot they couldn't be arsed to put in the games themselves (I'm talking MM1-4 here). So Ruby-Spears can't be blamed for taking the show in the direction they did. Not to mention, they probably began work on it a while before '94, and they had even less to work with then.

1785

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 07, 2009, 04:12:05 PM »

It's entirely possible that Wily was away on a business trip or something the entire time Proto was built and ran away. After that, he came back and helped Dr. Light build the six industrial robots and Rock.

This argument is making me regret that I ever brought RS-MM up. Sarcastically, mind you, because you were using the manga.

1786

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 07, 2009, 03:32:24 AM »

Wily buggering off before ProtoMan was built?... What are you talking about? We are comparing the cartoon with the games.

Which I didn't see in that post. Unless you're being sarcastic.

To be fair to the writers of the MM1 manual (which, if I've read, I don't remember doing so), they wrote it long before Proto ever showed up.

1787

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 07, 2009, 01:49:30 AM »

I think it should be quite clear what's wrong with the notion of them being partners that produced Blues and the other industrial robots.

There's nothing wrong with it if Wily buggered off before Proto was built. >.> That's the way I remember it.

Everything is its own internally consistent canon, that's a given. Official or unofficial, everything is canon to itself, that's just reciting the very definition of canon. What we're talking about is more on how all those separate canons relate and holds some truth about each other.

Sure...if it's the right region. Grumble.

1788

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 07, 2009, 12:27:01 AM »

How do you know they weren't?

Apparently, that's not what the original story for MM1 said. But I don't remember CoJ having anything to say on the matter, so it could be either, honestly.

1789

Fan Creations / Re: Rebirth of the Rockman-Themed Stolen *Bleep* Thread!!

« on: October 06, 2009, 11:59:56 PM »

*huggles Rock Bomb for those sketches*

1790

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 06, 2009, 09:09:46 PM »

Both of those were specifically made for the American market. The RS-cartoon was written there and goes by the stories as told in the US manuals. It's automatically invalidated right there.

I was being sarcastic. And I don't care which market they were made for; that's supporting the double standard that "only the Japanese stuff counts".

Why is that really relevant?

Because Ariga may have altered something about Breakman (beside the appearance), and we might not be able to tell. The problem I'm seeing here is that we don't know much about Breakman other than what can be deduced from the games, yet we're trying to "evaluate" his appearance in a manga that's not canon to the games and may have changed things around. It's like trying to write a paper for Romeo and Juliet when all you know is that Romeo had a friend named Mercutio, and your source material is the anime.

it's simply something of interest to see how similar the events could play out in a different style of presentation brought by someone with such innate knowledge of the series. It is food for thought on a matter that has such limited information.

Which would be fine if it didn't seem like you were treating it like potential game canon. Yes, we can think for ourselves, but in the end, all it'll be is fanon.

It is part of Megamix, specifically, the first chapter of the upcoming Rockman9 adaption. And we've already seen discrepancies with the game. But still, included by IntiCreates in their own soundtrack, with Ariga's work gracing the whole cover and booklet. IntiCreates allowed Ariga to help explain the concept they themselves could not deeply elaborate upon with the confines of a NES game.

I see a distinct lack of Capcom. (Yes, I know IntiCreates is part of Capcom, but this being the first time it's happened makes me wonder how involved Capcom was with that decision. If IntiCreates wasn't involved, would Ariga be, either?)

Ariga's work should not be degenerated to a mere cash cow that Capcom couldn't care less about.

Which I don't mean to do--I respect the man's work--but I made that statement with the rest of the third-party stuff in mind. The closest Capcom has gotten to acknowledging it has been the inclusion of RS and manga art in R20, and even then, it feels more for "completeness" rather than "we care about it". (There was that joke in a Marvel VS Capcom flyer, but I can't read it, and I get the feeling it was specifically the artist's idea) Until they do, with more than a passing "we licensed it", I'm going to assume that they're more concerned with the games.

1791

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 06, 2009, 06:43:56 PM »

also, @ Gonzo, RS also had glaring story errors, such as Light and Wily being partners, (blame the American MM manual for that) and Protoman being a Wily creation AND a bad guy. Then there's that psycho X...

I know that; the point was that Capcom was involved with it beyond licensing, if only a little, and I wasn't serious about its validity anyway. ^^

n any case, it is also not canon to the games. the Upon A Star anime, inst canon to the games either, but follows the natural story of things. In fact, its moreso not canon to the games since its just its own thing, what if Megaman came out of the game.

True, but goddamn did it ever waste its potential.


(Also, entirely off-topic, but sometimes I wish the Fan Dumb would stop blaming the "story errors" in RS-MM and consider that ,maybe, those changes were creative ones...)

1792

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 06, 2009, 06:01:41 PM »

I would prefer it if every time the manga is brought up, people wouldn't jump on it as "non canon".  That's just beating a dead horse, saying something we already know.

The impression I was getting (and still am) is that you're treating it like it has canological value when it is, in fact, a third-party production like the RS-cartoon, the OVAs, and Mr. Ikehara's mangas (which, up to 5 or so, are WAY closer to the games than anything else, but I don't see anyone dragging them into conversations like this).

What's really pissing me off is the double standard about third-party stuff in relation to Megaman. The Ruby-Spears cartoon and the OVA both had involvement with Capcom beyond simply being licensed; R20 has sketches pertaining to both productions. Yet, no one ever treats them like they have canological value, simply because they're "not good" (well, the OVA usually gets a free pass since it's Japanese, but still). But Megamix is treated like it does, simply because "it's good" (which I won't argue with, but that's not the point).

Yes, Mr. Ariga does know quite a bit about the Classic canon, but here's the problem:

All we have here is our own interpretations of the events of Rockman3, that is why Ariga's stories are so important to provide us with insight to refine our views. His use of the character can validate our own ideas or bring to light new possibilities.

How do we know he's not BSing? The ordeals with Copy-Rock and the second Yellow Devil are both products of his imagination (I'm assuming), so who says this version of Breakman won't be, as well?

Not to mention, any evaluation we make of his role in Megamix will inevitably be biased, even if only a little, so it's not much help.

As long as you're going to treat Magamix like it means something in this argument, I'm going to do the same with Ruby-Spears: Judging by the stuff in the toyline that wasn't released due to the show getting canned, Proto was supposed to don a mask at some point--and it was specifically referred to as "Breakman's". Sure, we have no idea what the hell Ruby-Spears was planning with that, and it doesn't prove anything, but hey.

I think someone who owns Rockman Memories/Perfect Memories should check to see if they had anything to say on Protoman being Breakman. All I can contribute to the argument is what Gauntlet and others found (scroll down until you see those sprites of Protoman/Breakman). Honestly, I have to hit myself for forgetting that. >.>

The Rockman 9 Arrange Soundtrack among other official Inti/Capcom releases raise considerable doubt about this statement.

I always figured that the mini-manga was more a part of Megamix than the game; didn't Mr. Ariga write it?

1793

Fan Creations / Re: The Gonzo has art.

« on: October 06, 2009, 04:07:36 AM »

Out of his line of site? No, off of the planet.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SailorEarth
http://www.themmnetwork.com/wiki/index.php?title=Terra

Relevant.

:devcrazylegz42: inspired me. Unlike the other Robot Senshi, Gaia doesn't get to wear pants.

1794

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 06, 2009, 02:42:49 AM »

We have better luck with a book we already know includes no information of the sort? Sure, if you say so.

Didn't know that. >.> But I do remember those concepts for Protoman; one of them is very clearly Breakman.

You forget, as Ariga is knowledgeable enough to have written sourcebooks on the series canon, anything he includes within his manga has to be evaluated in its validity to the canon.

I haven't forgotten, but the thing is, you simply can't bring third-party productions into discussions about canon. Just because Ariga says something about Breakman, doesn't mean it's canon--just how much did Capcom care about Breakman, anyway?

If Ariga says that Proto and Break are one and the same or not in a sourcebook, that's fine. But the manga? Even if we could differentiate between his canon and Capcom's, we can't be 100% sure , because we're not Ariga.

Unless Capcom produces it themselves, it's not canon. I don't care how much Ariga knows about Megaman's goings-on, Megamix and Gigamix aren't canon, because Capcom only licensed it, and probably wouldn't give a doodly-[parasitic bomb] about it beyond its sales.

1795

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 05, 2009, 06:44:42 PM »

No matter what Mr. Ariga says, it still won't be canon. (Unless it's outside Megamix/Gigamix, but someone'd have to ask him directly) We'd have better luck with MMOCW/R20.

I always thought it was obvious that the two are the same robot. Breakman fights you and exits the field in the exact same manner as Protoman, plus the only difference is that single "eye" (which could just be his visor reflecting light differently) and the mask.

1796

Rockman Series / Re: Ancient Theories/Fanon

« on: October 05, 2009, 05:55:36 PM »

Honestly, I don't think there's any way to keep the thread alive at this point, seeing as how all the interesting stuff has been mentioned by now. But I thought I misewell share this:

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/1292/mmc.html Last updated in '98. All the bios are more or less accurate (the ones he bothered to fill out, anyway), but one in particular stuck out to me: Dr. Wily's.

Dr. Light's cousin and former partner. He went mad and reprogrammed the six industrial robots to try and take over the world.

Now I'm curious as to where the hell he got that.

1797

Fan Creations / Re: MM Fanprojects

« on: October 05, 2009, 05:41:13 PM »

http://web.archive.org/web/19990221155557/http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/5907/Mmain.html

Mentions a "PC RPG" the webmaster was working on. Judging by the fact that the 2002 version of the site looks no different from the 1999 version, I'd say it never got off the ground.

1798

Fan Creations / Re: Rebirth of the Rockman-Themed Stolen *Bleep* Thread!!

« on: October 05, 2009, 05:14:32 PM »

All by Higure-san. (Too bad Jewelman.EXE's a walking stereotype...)


By Silver-Ray.


By Avbertelli.


By MrGoggles.

1799

Zero / Re: Are the Big 4 technically X's children?

« on: October 05, 2009, 04:42:47 PM »

If y'ask me, Alia was SO askin' for it.

NOT COOL

As for DNA for robots/Reploids--I think it's just another term for data; it's to make them feel more human.

1800

Fan Creations / Re: Rebirth of the Rockman-Themed Stolen *Bleep* Thread!!

« on: October 05, 2009, 02:47:53 AM »

ヽ(`Д´) [no]: [Kowa] Ine [chan] who left of delusion explosion. ?I think that it is [tte] Chinese character. Then, it is so. When it is a high school student of ..laughter..), does not lock man have younger sister [irun] therefore as the younger sister is good fairly for the forte ..my original character it.. ..(..?It designed without permission for myself thinking of [tte]. So-called [yandere] is a guy though thought the image and boiling in externals. It is [sutoyu] [-], and [tondemonee;] [**] ..carrying out.. [himusume] in case of destruction though it is always ordinary until it drives recklessly when fighting during the fixed time by full power, and surroundings turn into ruins. The name is controlled voluntarily. The support robot like gospel also designed. I heartily feel [ttetandana] Hama [-] in lock man in the marsh. Forte: (´･ω･`) unpleasantness and [ro] ..marsh it as of hilt and now... 　　( ´Д`)ヽ: [Sokkaa] [-]. ([tehe] *)

I got nuthin'. :/ Think he's an original character.