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Messages - Protoman Blues

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8051
Fan Games / Re: Megaman vs Street Fighter Fangame
« on: December 12, 2012, 08:31:32 AM »
All I see in this thread now is RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEEEEEEE (somewhat funny considering PB's current avatar).

Perhaps I'm a bit optimistic, maybe a bit naive. But here's the thing: at the end of the day this is a free video game. That distinction is important for two things:

1) Free. It doesn't cost us anything. Don't like it? You didn't spend money on it, that's okay.

2) Video game. It's just a bunch of code combined to create an adventure starring our favorite blue hero. You're getting mad over a piece of code.

Here's another thing: it was Capcom of Japan who cancelled those games, who made X1 iOS and XOver, not Capcom of America. They've always been on our side. Always been doing what they can for the fans. When making SF2 HD ReMix, they got OCR (a fan community) to do the soundtrack. When Legends 3 was cancelled, they kept our Devroom open while Japan closed theirs, because they knew the fans would want it.

It was Capcom USA who took what SonicZH here offered and made it something official.

If you want to get mad, get mad at Capcom Japan, because all your reasons for anger were caused by them. But don't get mad at CoA; they are, for all intents and purposes, just a branch office of corporate. They held no responsibility for any of those things, and were just as surprised as we were.

Also, they're promising more news. I understand some may think the actions of the past year may be unforgivable, but they're not saying that SFxMM is it. There's more. They've been celebrating SF's 25th all year, and from next Monday until December 17, 2013, they'll be celebrating Mega Man's 25th.

Oh, and one more thing. Isn't any game a gauge for continued interest in the series? Don't the units sold or downloaded (in the case of free games) of games factor into when a game is made in most instances? Yes, they said that this was to gauge interest, but that's no different from literally any other game out there. Yeah, it was the same thing as Legends 3, but I'm pretty sure that's even more indication of being blinded by Legends 3-related rage.

If the rest of the year goes well, I know my patience will have paid off in some form. But until then I won't be mad at Capcom; too much energy spent that can be better used elsewhere. I'll just be saddened, and waiting for them to find their way once again.

How is a discussion rage? As for the two things:

1). Again, it shows Capcom's lack of effort.

2). A video game is still a product of a company that is making [acid burst] poor business decisions. Those decisions are what people are mad about, not so much the game.

Never said CoA was to blame. I've stated multiple times in the past that it's sad they're getting the majority of the flack. I had a nice "con" relationship with S-Kill. We had some nice conversations. My "[tornado fang]ing stupidity" comments are directed at CoJ, since they're really the only Capcom that matters.

Yes, I hope they make some awesome announcements on the 17th as well. They kinda have to.

And as for any game a gauge for continued interest in the series, I've already stated why this one doesn't matter. Sold is different than it being downloaded for free. Sold makes money. Downloaded does not. Earning a profit is what matters the most. The fact that MegaMan games have not earned a profit is the problem. Free games are not the answer.

Finally, if you don't get mad at Capcom for their [tornado fang] ups, that's your prerogative. But telling other customers not to be angry at their [parasitic bomb] is pointless.

8052
Forum Games / HEY QUICKIE
« on: December 12, 2012, 07:13:06 AM »

8053
Fan Games / Re: Megaman vs Street Fighter Fangame
« on: December 12, 2012, 06:58:28 AM »
This is worth emphasizing in general: the only one who's in the position to take big chances here is Capcom. They're the ones we're asking to take big risks, promising that we'll love them for it with our money. Our promises aren't enough. The burden is on Capcom not only to cater to their legacy audience, but to draw in new ones and grow the brand in a way that will be successful. This could be done in any number of ways, even ones as cheap and unpopular as a game like Xover, because apparently that's doing pretty well despite everything going against it. Behold, the power of free/retro/casual/insert-buzz-word-here.

This is why something like SonicZH's game is so helpful right now. Capcom (of Japan) is not inclined to invest a lot of money in Mega Man right now, AFAWK, and online polls and forum posts don't speak as loudly as sales. So, what's the next best thing? Download traffic. It doesn't necessarily predict whether these people downloading the game would be willing to pay for it--fair point by Protoman Blues--but clearly it's the next best thing. Not to mention it's yet another good demonstration of corporate-consumer relations on Capcom's part that in the case of Mega Man, begins to repair the relation between the two.

This is worth emphasizing in general as well; they're the ones talking out of their ass when it comes to the future of the franchise, thus far. They do need to attract a new audience and yet they're damn near going out of their way to not do that, as well as continuously pissing off their legacy fans with their stupidity. The last time they branched out with something to attract a new fanbase was with the EXE series. As for HurlOver, again it's a free game. It doesn't matter towards the future.

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Fair point. Free =/= profit, but free can still sell stuff. SEGA sold the Genesis with a free copy of Sonic 1. Cave Story started out free and then became a huge re-released hit. So, free doesn't get you anything in the short-term, but it can have long-term benefits.

The Genesis example is irrelevant. With Cave Story, the difference is that Cave Story started off as free and then got popular enough to warrant people helping to support it. MegaMan has been around far, far longer. The SF vs. MM fangame is a very nice tribute, but not the future of the series. With XOver, if that's the future of the franchise, then I want no part of it.

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Preaching to the choir, brother. My point here was that it was even less reasonable for Capcom to expect a huge turnout for Legends 3 because of the level of commitment it's Devroom phase demanded from fans. Most people just hung out their for staff updates, voting, and otherwise eating [parasitic bomb], but the real action happened with the boss design contests. So, basically you could see the game as it was being made before it gets released. Maybe people weren't too keen about spoilers, but I'm not sure I buy that entirely. Maybe just not enough people were into Legends for it to seem profitable to Capcom. This is where I fault Capcom for not going into this knowing it was a risk and intending to stay for the long haul.

No no no. The problem is that they're [tornado fang]ing idiots if they were gauging interest based on the Devroom, just like they're [tornado fang]ing idiots if they're gauging interest based on free games. As for the spoilers thing, yeah no. That wasn't the reason.

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Let's be honest. I don't many of us think Capcom has been great at business decisions for the past I-don't-know-how-long. Their recent successes with Ace Attorney, Monster Hunter, Street Fighter, Lost Planet, and Resident Evil seem to have been more the result of passionately obstinate developers determined to getting their way than it was a result of good executive leadership and business acumen. This seems like a case endemic to Japanese corporations in general. However, I don't think it's all bad, and something like SF x MM is a shining example of what could be that traditionally never was, even if it's more CoA's doing than CoJ's. It's almost like Legends 3 Devroom, which is something I want to see return along with its game.

Shining Example is a little too glowing. It's hopefully a small step in the right direction. But it's not the solution to the big problem.

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But let's get down to the heart of the matter: what's our role in this? Honestly, I don't think it's anything more than doing what we've always been doing, with occasional works like SF x MM or MMX:C coming out here and there. We could do with a little less overreacting.

Our role in this is "customer." As a customer, we choose to buy and support a product & company that we like. When that company does well, it deserves money & praise. When that company does not do well, it deserves to know what it can do to improve. When that company royally fucks up and continues to do so, it definitely needs to know about it and that company should offer compensation for their [tornado fang] up. They don't have to, but it's really poor business strategy not to. What you might view as overreacting is some people letting a company they still like and want to support how upset they are at their lack of commitment towards their customers. Us. This is why Mirby's comment was downright laughable. They're still making the same mistakes as before.

8054
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 06:11:09 AM »
Any character can work as a film if done correctly and written well.

8055
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 06:03:20 AM »
We'll see. The problem is that the need to branch out. Sadly, Green Lantern showed the danger of doing that.

8056
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 05:52:19 AM »
I think if this movie does well, we'll see Brainiac in the next one.

8057
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 05:41:45 AM »
Tormented is a reaaaally harsh word to use towards the opening of the trailer. It has young Clark dealing with his powers and asking questions. No different than most Supes stories. Even the Animated Series did it. Also, Superman Returns problem was that it followed the original movies. And for a movie that did, it actually wound up being a decent movie. Juuust not a decent Superman movie.

8058
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 05:28:45 AM »
Join us.

My image of Acid as a pantheon of Herculean might will never change!

8059
Roleplay / Re: Wilypocalypse NOW
« on: December 12, 2012, 04:39:50 AM »
(OWWWWW! Just a suggestion!  :V)

8060
Roleplay / Re: Wilypocalypse NOW
« on: December 12, 2012, 04:28:47 AM »
(Well, you could describe in detail how you shower yourself!  [eyebrow])

8061
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 04:27:50 AM »
Heh, you're talking to the wrong fan. I actually do not like those movies at all, which is why I'm looking forward to this one. It's NOT based on those.

8062
Fan Games / Re: Megaman vs Street Fighter Fangame
« on: December 12, 2012, 04:27:02 AM »
There's a subtle distinction between the free t-shirt bazooka and this game, though: the former is a "push" while the latter is a "pull". Rather than Capcom pushing a product on us they think we'll buy or invest in, they're allowing us to pull a finished product they're sponsoring for free. This could be a particularly useful measurement, because there is virtually no barrier to this game penetrating the market of Mega Man players. Don't have a PC? Go borrow a laptop at the library and hammer away at it for a few hours--or borrow a family member's/friend's PC. If nothing else, a game like this is great for gauging the arguably un(der)tapped PC market, but moreover it's good for renewing reasonable expectations for how much Mega Man could (or should) sell. This is something that one or another side of Capcom doesn't seem confident about--either Japan or America. I'm thinking CoA is on our side when it comes to whether or not Mega Man is (or can be) profitable.

It's an interesting distinction when you consider that Legends 3 has more in common with the "push" example than the "pull", since there was nothing to pull from the Legends 3 project other than news and trailers. Legends 3 required investment, whereas downloading a free game (like SFxMM AND Xover) does not.

It's still an irrelevant measuring tool, because the main thing they want to know is "is MegaMan still profitable?" A free downloadable game does nothing to accomplish this for every reason you mentioned. You cannot measure a product's worth when it's not going to net a profit in any way, especially in this new age of "free internet downloadable swag" we live in. I have Angry Birds: Star Wars on my GalaxyMan. I got it for free. I got it because it was free. People will get this for free. Hell, if Capcom wasn't Captarded and actually put HurlOver on another platform besides iOS, I'd DL it to because it was free. This does nothing to show what the product it worth, no matter how many people download it. There is no way to know if those same amount of people who paid 0 for the game will pay $30-$60 for a new game. This is why it's a free t-shirt, regardless of push or pull. I'll go to Citi Field and try to catch a free Mets T-shirt in the 5th inning. I'd never buy one cause I'm a Yankees fan.

Also, the pull from the Legends 3 project came from the fan involvement. That's one of the reasons why when they pulled the game away from fans they were livid, and still are. I mean, let's take this game for example. Can you imagine how heartbreaking it would be if Capcom got involved with the SF vs. MM fan project, then not only pulled their funding but refused to let Sonic ZH make it at all? That's what Capcom did to their fans. They broke their hearts. And if you've ever been in love, heartbreak is not an easy thing to get over, especially when the person who broke your heart is a goddamn cocktease.

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While I do think it's time Capcom got more ambitious with Mega Man, I wouldn't say they've only ever been putting in minimal effort. Did everyone forget Mega Man: Powered Up and Maverick Hunter X? They were just the not-8-bit stuff people were (and still are) asking for, and yet they didn't do well. Blame whatever you want on that--I blame the choice of PSP with the benefit of hindsight--but I think that's something important to remember when evaluating how much effort Capcom has been putting into Mega Man recently. More relevantly, the Mega Man Legends games were ambitious as [tornado fang], but they tanked with each sequel. Between that history and the failure of the handheld reboots to move enough paper, it shouldn't be surprising that they'd be reluctant to greenlight Legends 3, as much as everyone involved wanted that game to happen. Keiji, his team, and us Legends fans could only push them so far, evidently. Even Mega Man 9 & 10, albeit the most successful titles in recent memory, weren't enough to offset the times and experiences they've had where Mega Man underperformed. They know Mega Man isn't working out, and they either have no idea what to do with him yet or are working on something big. Those are the only two reasons I can think of why they're being so coy these years. They want more time, but at the same time they don't want to ignore us, so here we are in this limbo of sky-high demand, depressed expectations, and disappointment to go around: cameos, merchandise, and low-cost experiments.

Mega Man: Overpowered Playable Blues and Maverick Hunter Spammable Storm Tornado were released 6 years ago. That's not recent in an industry that has such high, needy demand as video games do. Plus, those games are re-done games that once again play upon nostalgia. Yeah, they have effort put into them but they were nothing new really. And you just perfectly described everything Capcom did wrong and why people are still pissed. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Legends 3 was never going to net Capcom a huge profit. From the beginning I saw it as a "Thank You For Your Patience" game, something that all the fans could get involved with and have fun. To get people's hopes up and then dash them when it was obvious that it wouldn't be as big of a seller as a Devil May Cry or Street Fighter is just plain stupid. It destroyed their once heralded PR cred.

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Then it would be in both the consumers' and the producers' best interests to exercise patience. When it comes right down to it, that's really all we can do. Capcom probably needs that time to deliver something great with Mega Man again. Great things take time, and Mega Man's not the only pony in their stable. In the meantime, while they might seem like irritating and unsatisfying gestures, I think it's better to take things like Xover and SFxMM as treats to tide us over. Better to enjoy them than to use grand, unmet expectations against them. We agree on that much, but that being said ...

... I think it's also time to move on from the 8-bit throwbacks. Maybe even the 16-bit/32-bit throwbacks as well. While I'd personally be thrilled to see a 16-bit X9, it's neither vital nor what I want to see most out of Mega Man.

(click to show/hide)

It would be in everyone's best interests, yes. Here's the problem though; fans HAVE been patient. They were patient with Legends 3 for over a decade. As we've discussed in length, look how their patience was rewarded. People still want compensation and while Capcom doesn't owe their fans anything, they still need to give them something for vomiting all over their hopes or else this endless cynicism and bile will continue (IE: The Great Gonzo). Patience only goes so far before you realize that you are being suckered. As long as people continue to accept the "low-cost experiments" then that's all that we'll get. MM9 & 10 are fun for people like me, but it's not the future nor should it be. This is why SF vs. MM should absolutely not be used to judged fan interest in MegaMan's future. It's a good looking fan game for free.

That's my main problem with Capcom. It's not the games as much as the abject [tornado fang]ing stupidity when it comes to PR. It makes no sense from a business standpoint.

8063
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:22:42 AM »
LoL, yes I know which version you'd sing. And because YouTube are douches!  -_-

Feel free to sing all my gems!  8B

8064
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:15:15 AM »
Hmmm, good point. I don't think an instrumental of that exists. I know one does of Electrical Communication!  8)

8065
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 01:08:54 AM »
Sooooo if I give you fully translated Wild Fang lyrics, will you sing that too?  8D

8066
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:59:30 AM »
Like with any Karaoke, the important thing is the effort. Plus, you have a lovely singing voice!

8067
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:44:02 AM »
I think this is going to be the best I can do since I don't have a real mike.  Also there's no music because it sounds horrible with it.

http://vocaroo.com/i/s1kMVyqbHkJC

 :'(  :'(

I'm so proud right now!

8068
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:32:51 AM »
Needs a little more "Action" to get me psyched. :P

It had Supes being thrown into a safe and a city being destroyed. This trailer has more action than pretty much every live-action Super movie ever! XD

8069
Fan Games / Re: Megaman vs Street Fighter Fangame
« on: December 12, 2012, 12:30:20 AM »
What KoiDrake is saying is true; y'all just seem to be so blinded by your rage and anger at Capcom for the mistakes they've made that y'all can't seem to realize it. Stop seeing red, start seeing blue! :D

And plus, they're monitoring the downloads of a free game. You wanted a way for Capcom to definitely know we want more of Mega Man, and this is a way. That will cost you nothing but some hard drive space.

 :O

BWAHAHAHAAAA. I absolutely love how you tell people to stop seeing red when Capcom is once again making the same stupid mistake as Legends 3, which you even acknowledge. Riddle me this; How do you judge the worth of a product when, from a business standpoint, it's worthless? This game is essentially a free t-shirt. It costs so little to make that they are shooting it out of a bazooka at you. Mind you, free t-shirts are awesome, just like this game looks (Again, way to go Sonic ZH). But to use this to judge the PAINFULLY [tornado fang]ing OBVIOUS FACT that MegaMan fans want more of MegaMan is [tornado fang]ing absurd. The fact they they continue to say out loud that they are monitoring how well the game does only continues to hurt their PR cred. The only difference between this stupidity and the stupidity of the Legends 3 prototype debacle is #1. they didn't charge for this one and #2. this doesn't force people to go out and buy a system just to prove the prototype's worth. Continuing this discussion with these next two questions...

So, why is it bad that Mega Man is beating up the cast of Street Fighter for a change? And getting a new 8+ stage adventure and soundtrack to go with it?

MegaMan 9 & 10 were cheap games as well that gave us new bosses and new soundtracks. For everything included in them, they were only $20 a pop, and Capcom hasn't even continued giving us that. As sad as it is to say this, Street Fighter vs. MegaMan represents why people are still pissed and continuing with their "cynicism and bile." What it represents is that Capcom is putting the most minimal effort into giving fans MegaMan. It's the exact same reason why people were insulted by XOver as well. Thankfully, at least an awesome fan made this game and not whomever made XOver. SF vs. MM shows actual effort put into it.

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Think about it: ever since Mega Man X, Mega Man and Street Fighter have had that neat easter egg association with each other. Now we see that connection coming full circle, and it's a great thing, quibbles about 8-bit or Legends 3 aside.

Putting 8-Bit or Legends 3 aside, the problem with this game is not the game itself but what it represents, like I stated above. It represents Capcom putting little to no effort into it. This is Sonic ZH's gem, not Capcom. Capcom didn't bring the SF & MM connection "full circle." Sonic ZH did. Hell, I give him a lot of credit. He's essentially done what a lot of fans want Capcom to do with the MM franchise in the first place; let someone else make games for it. If Capcom is only going to give us vomited up crap like XOver, then they might as well support more of the Sonic ZH's out there who care enough to do something worthwhile with the franchise. People have been clamoring for Capcom to let Nintendo or someone else take a crack at a MM game. Fans don't just want any new MM game that comes out. They want some actual effort put into it. Which brings me to this last point...

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That's not to say that Capcom is off the hook now, but it is to say that not everything they say or do should be met with the most deep-seated cynicism and bile. Clearly, that isn't appropriate right now. Thinking like that is like having the blinds drawn closed all the time because you think the sun is trying to kill you. It might be habitual or addictive, but it's not healthy for anyone involved.

So anyways, there's nothing else I can say except I can't wait till this game comes out, and hope to hear the best news on that day about Mega Man's future. Maybe it's time to start getting optimistic, or at least less bitter.

Capcom will NEVER be off the hook or stop being met with the most deep-seated cynicism and bile until they give fans something worthwhile that shows effort and care were put into making a quality product. It's what pretty much every consumer wants. This game shows that effort and love were put into it by its true creator, Sonic ZH. It's why fans get excited by fan games like MegaMan X: Corrupted, because you can see the hard work and soul that the creators put into it. Capcom has shown their fans absolutely nothing when it comes to this. Anything that required effort has been cancelled, some much worse than others, and the last two new games they've shown are this and XOver. Again, no effort from Capcom. The sun may not be trying to kill us. In fact, we cannot live without it. However, it is harmful and not to be trusted!

I agree with the wait and see thing though. Dec 17th (while nowhere near as important as Dec 15th 8D) could prove fruitful for MM fans. Finally. However, if they want to avoid more flack then it better be something worthwhile. I, being me Protoman Blues, would be absolutely happy with another 8-bit MM11 announcement. But that's me and my love of 8-Bit Playable Blues. It cannot and should not be another game like that. It'll only compound the current situation.

8070
Off The Wall / Re: Post Pictures Of Yourself
« on: December 11, 2012, 10:50:28 PM »
You honor the Blues well!  ;)

8071
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 11, 2012, 10:49:01 PM »
Oh come now, my dear Acid. My voice is exactly how it should be. Except less hispanic sounding!

8072
Entertainment / Re: At The Movies With RPM
« on: December 11, 2012, 07:40:55 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KVu3gS7iJu4[/youtube]

Well I'm psyched!!  8D

8073
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 11, 2012, 11:11:20 AM »

8074
Off The Wall / Re: let's post our voices
« on: December 11, 2012, 09:58:19 AM »
You could also sing my X4 translation  8D

8075
Forum Games / Re: CTRL+V
« on: December 11, 2012, 09:38:29 AM »

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